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Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&A

pogue

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
6
I'm looking at the standard round brilliant cut and there are tons of choices out there with various names for these "ideal cuts".

Looks like Tolkowsky started the cut based on certain proportions for ideal performance. I'm not sure if Lazare Kaplan was one of the first to implement the cut guidelines. However looking for Tolkowsky cuts these days it seem a lot are EGL graded.

Hearts and Arrows diamonds. This has a certain facet patterning of which leads to better performance. I'm not sure if Lazare Kaplan diamonds are H&A or not. Hearts on Fire certainly seems to be patterned after H&A.

I've been looking at diamonds for the past 6 months and there is a dizzying array of cuts and brands. Of particular note there are a couple brands that stand out to me. First is the Solasfera which has 97 facets. Quite a bit more than the standard 57 facets. I do notice that in the ASET the edge of the diamond is red. To me they appear brighter around the edge/girdle of the diamond. This actually helps the diamond look bigger than say an H&A cut. Unfortunately the extra facets results in a splintery look in diamonds in the 1ct range. So at this/my desired size the patterning looks too busy.

My search led me to the Eightstar diamond. It seems to be a H&A diamond or at least the arrows part. It has a similar ASET to the Solasfera where the girdle is nearly completely red. I guess they achieve this by painting the crown which is apparently frowned upon. But I like the look it produces. It seems to increase the brightness in the girdle making the stone look bigger much like the solasfera cut. but it isn't as busy as the latter. Another thing is it seems to have more fire. A conventional H&A might have say 10 areas of fire at any given angle but the Eightstar seems to have 15 or 20. There seems to be more fire in the girdle than with H&A cuts. Also the scintillation is different as a result. It kinda reminds me of light reflecting off a body of water. There's a shimmering effect where the fire change color and intensity. H&A cuts seem to be more on/off with their fire. Very intense fire but move it a little bit and it's gone.

I've only seen 2 Eightstars so I don't know if that is indicative of the cut. I've viewed a lot of H&A and they seemed to lack these traits. A few HoF diamonds had it but most didn't.

So, I'm looking for a diamond that has great brilliance in the girdle area while also having lots of fire and scintillation. It seems the 8star has this. Are there other cuts that also exhibit this and is it solely due to crown only painting? I've been reading around and it appears that painting is bad as are these attempts at brillianteering. But what's so bad about it? I like the look of the two EightStars I've seen but they seem rather difficult to find so I'm looking for alternatives with similar performance or should I just avoid painted diamonds altogether?
 

ecf8503

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
3,979
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

pogue|1435784335|3897610 said:
My search led me to the Eightstar diamond. It seems to be a H&A diamond or at least the arrows part. It has a similar ASET to the Solasfera where the girdle is nearly completely red. I guess they achieve this by painting the crown which is apparently frowned upon. But I like the look it produces......

I've seen eight star stones in person as well, and I have to say there is just something special about them - it was an immediate reaction. It sounds like you feel that as well. I don't care much about what is frowned upon if you personally like the look; just look at the ongoing debates over "crushed ice" radiants -

If you like the eight stars and have found one you like, why not go for it? They're beautiful! jmho. :)
 

pogue

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
6
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

Thanks. The issue I'm running into is that finding an Eightstar is fairly difficult. It seems the business was sold at some point and now the output is very small. This seemed to be a larger brand in the 90s and early 2000s. I'm looking for something over 1ct but then one's I've seen are .6-.8.

I heard that Whiteflash's ACA new line might be similar to Eightstar but that line has been discontinued. I'm fine with having to procure a used or second hand diamond but I don't know where to look. There doesn't seem to be a central or main marketplace for used diamonds and several jewelers I contacted hadn't even heard of Eightstar much less knew where to obtain one. Perhaps because GIA decide to ding painted stones they have dried up in availability so perhaps I should just consign myself to a branded H&A stone?
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,227
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

Try Crafted by Infinity.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jan 11, 2006
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58,342
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

I would actually recommend Good Old Gold, as they carry or have carried all of these brands. I will say that the best value may be a hearts and arrows (AGS or GIA graded, not EGL) because some of the other brands will have a little extra brand mark-up. I now have one of their August Vintage Rounds which is a newly cut Old European Cut designed to have excellent light return. But they have outstanding cut hearts and arrows stones as well.

Good Old Gold made a video for me one time when I was trying to decide what cut of diamond I wanted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwiM3COzjFM&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA&index=1&feature=plcp

They also have hundreds of other videos comparing diamonds, so I am sure you can find others on their YouTube channel. They are great to work with and also offer a 100% trade-in policy if you ever want to change or upgrade the diamond.

If you watch the picture slides on their home page, you'll see one pic with several varieties of round brilliants.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/
 

pogue

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
6
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

Crafted by Infinity said they don't paint their diamonds.

WF doesn't carry nor make their New Line any more and they don't have any from old stock or trade ins so I guess I'll have to look around and see if anything pops up.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

8* on top, recut by infinity in the middle, and GOG H&A on the bottom.

_32030.jpg

dqs.jpg
 

pogue

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
6
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

Very impressive. How would you compare the diamonds to one another? My observation was that in dim lighting the Eightstar catches light better. Or perhaps it just throws back a bigger flash of fire so it appears brighter. I liked that characteristic and how the facets around the girdle appeared brighter. But some have said it has less brightness, particularly under the table though I didn't really notice it.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

pogue|1436323627|3900191 said:
Very impressive. How would you compare the diamonds to one another? My observation was that in dim lighting the Eightstar catches light better. Or perhaps it just throws back a bigger flash of fire so it appears brighter. I liked that characteristic and how the facets around the girdle appeared brighter. But some have said it has less brightness, particularly under the table though I didn't really notice it.
I didn't have the 8* long enough to compare it with the other two rings under different lightings.
 

pogue

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
6
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

Thanks, that video does help illustrate the differences. The 8star might not be better in lower light but it returns light in a different manner which I find appealing. Though I'd argue it seems to have more light return at the girdle area. Solasfera is also nice in this regard though I don't care that much for the pin point scint. Each one has it's compromise and given the lack of availability of painted crown diamonds I might just opt for a Solasfera.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
Re: Help with RBCs- Tolkowsky, EightStar, HoF, Solasfera, H&

8* = big premium!
 
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