Help picking a stone for an engagement ring

[NotCreative]

Hi all,

I'm very new to the diamond world and while I've done some research there's clearly more to learn than I can absorb in the time frame I'm looking at. I've viewed a few stones in person from retailers and a non-B&M type establishment. I was thoroughly unimpressed with all B&M stones I've seen. I've also and been advised about a couple others that I haven't seen in person.

I was wondering if anyone out there could provide some guidance on these stones for which I have the GIA numbers. I'm not sure if it's possible for you to tell from the reports, but if so, what would you expect I should pay (ballpark) for these?

I know she would like to stay between 1.5 and 2 ct. with cut and color as the most important qualities.

Also, as you can see some reports are from 2011. Should the report dates concern me? Are there any other red flags I should be concerned about?

Thanks!

(Saw in person and liked)
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=1136583608

(Saw in person but the one above seemed a bit nicer and has a better cut)
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=6137467728

(Have not seen in person)
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=1169385543

(Have not seen in person)
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2165173927

 

[teobdl]

By the numbers, first and last are most promising. Middle two have little potential. It would be worthwhile to view the last one in person next to the first and choose which you like better.

 

[NotCreative]

Can you educate me on why the middle two don't appear as good?

Also, can anyone assist with answering my other questions?

Thanks!

 

[JulieN]

#2 and #3 have proportions far outside of spec.

 

[Gypsy]

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[teobdl]

The only thing concerning about the older report dates are that the diamonds may have been previously used. That they were previously used is not inherently a bad thing... they're made up of the hardest natural substance and are millions of years old. But it's possible that, if previously used, they may have developed a small fracture or scratches, particularly near the girdle or on the crown facets. If/when you purchase, it would be prudent to have the sale be contingent on an independent appraiser verifying that the diamond matches the report, with no additional damage that would have otherwise been noted on a report.

You may want to get an idealscope, as Gypsy suggested, but if these really are your only options, let your eyes be the benchmark of the good options you have in front of you.

 

[NotCreative]

All, thank you very much for your detailed responses!

I'm certainly not wed to those stones (no pun intended) but they were the best of what I've seen in person so far. I do have a jeweler I'd like to use for creating the ring but they seem flexible in terms of obtaining stones for me.

I'm wondering given the above do you have any suggestions on where I should go from here? I certainly want to get the best stone I can for my money. My only limit is I'd like to make a decision within the next two weeks.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Gypsy]

So, please clarify. Do you want to keep working with the jeweler you are working with?

If so, here is a cheat sheet of specs to give him:

FROM LORELEI:
depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

 

[Gypsy]

Also another option: Buy either 1 or 3 WITH A FULL REFUND RETURN POLICY. Take the unset stone to a local appraiser with an idealscope. Where are you located?

 

[NotCreative]

Gypsy, thanks for your replies and the cheat sheet.

I would like to keep working with the jeweler as I feel comfortable with them, but I also want to ensure I obtain the best stone for my money. If that ends up not being possible with the jeweler, so be it. This is (for me) a once in a lifetime purchase so I want to make sure it's right. Still, the jeweler seems open to searching for stones for me within my criteria.

Would you change your recommendations based on who I work with? I'm in the Bay Area in Northern CA.

I saw (I think) from one of your links that I could purchase an idealscope for pretty cheap. I'm guessing that might be a bad idea for a novice versus an appraiser, but I thought I'd ask if I should. I also plan to ask the jeweler if they can provide those images.

Thanks again, I'm hoping to make the right decision here!

 

[Gypsy]

And idealscope is 25 bucks. http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp beginners scope.

I live in the bay area as well. Where is the jeweler? What city?

 

[NotCreative]

Is there a way for me to Private message you the details? I don't see the option but I'm on my phone...

 

[Gypsy]

We do not have that.

Just the city is all I need.

 

[NotCreative]

Long story, but the jeweler is in LA.

 

[Gypsy]

Well that's good news. Ask him to send the stone it Patrick Davis for evaluation. He's very reasonably priced. http://www.jewelryappraiser.net/

Shouldn't be a problem for him to do that.

 

[NotCreative]

Thanks. So is the typical process to purchase the stone with a solid return policy and get it appraised in the interim or will a jeweler send the stone to the appraiser prior to purchase?

Besides the cheat sheet, anything else I should tell the jeweler in order to obtain additional stones to view?

 

[Gypsy]

I could just send him the link to the HCA and tell him that you want stones that score under 2.

It depends on the jeweler. Many jewelers will be fine with sending a stone to an appraiser before purchase. Some won't be.

You pay for the appraisal either way, that's how it has to be (don't accept if they offer to pay). Just ask your jeweler what they are willing to do.

You must be firm that you want THIS appraiser. Not any other. Okay? I don't care what they tell you the qualifications of another appraiser are... you want this one.

 

[NotCreative]

Got it. I'll see what they say and follow up here once I hear back. Thanks again for the assistance, really appreciate it.

If you don't mind my asking, are you a jeweler in the Bay Area, or just an enthusiast?

 

[Gypsy]

Strictly an enthusiast. I have no trade affiliation at all. If I did I would be required to disclose per forum rules and my posts would bear a 'TRADE' badge.

 

[NotCreative]

Hello again...so I believe I've found the stone I'd like to purchase but I wanted to get your opinion on the following:
1) stone: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=6117150922&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

2) The jeweler I've been using just showed me the invoice they use and it states "all sales are final" and "no refunds or exchanges." They have stated numerous times that they would work with me to get the ring "right" after the fact, but just dropped on me the fact that this exception would only be allowed within 7 days, still with no return/refund.
Is this a huge red flag? I've used this jeweler in the past for small purchases and never had a problem. I've never made a purchase from them this large though, and I'm a bit concerned about these terms. Their reasoning is that they just don't do it even if others in the industry do.
Honestly it's turning this into a disappointing experience, but I doubt I could trust another jeweler any more starting from scratch.

 

[NotCreative]

Bumping up my post since y'all have been so helpful in the past. Hoping someone can provide their thoughts on my last post.

Thanks again!

 

[ecf8503]

The jeweler I've been using just showed me the invoice they use and it states "all sales are final" and "no refunds or exchanges." They have stated numerous times that they would work with me to get the ring "right" after the fact, but just dropped on me the fact that this exception would only be allowed within 7 days, still with no return/refund.
Is this a huge red flag?

Yes. For me, that's a huge red flag. Trusted vendors here all have very good return policies; there's no reason yours shouldn't as well.

Are you opposed to buying the stone online?

 

[tweeter8177]

I personally think it's a red flag and it would make me nervous. There are so many options for buying a diamond with a good return policy, so why take the risk? If you are open to buying on-line with a PS vendor, there are plenty of experts on here that can help find you one in your budget. There are a number of vendors that provide all sorts of information so you aren't buying blind.

I didn't read the whole thread so I apologize if buying on-line has already been discussed!

 

[NotCreative]

I'm not fundamentally opposed, but I enjoy seeing the differences in the stones side by side in person. I'm not sure how I would accomplish that with an online purchase. Even with generous return policies I couldn't put 100k out there to compare 3-4 stones at the same time.

I had also wanted to work with my current jeweler but am now having second thoughts given our most recent conversations.

 

[ecf8503]

Good Old Gold frequently makes comparison videos for customers when they are choosing between several options. I've purchased from them before, several times. Their customer service is top notch, they put all the stones through their paces so you know what you are getting, and they'll do comparison videos. That plus a great return policy (which I've used successfully)... what's not to like?

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, 7 days isn't really very long. I had a 10 day return window and it seemed very short. Something might come up at work or home and eat up half that time easily. You would really need all your ducks in a row to have it appraised in that time and review it yourself, playing with it with settings etc. However, based on the numbers and GIA report you linked, it seems like a safe bet. I wouldn't pay any extra for a VVS stone, so I'm guessing the price to be around $17-$19k. If it falls into that range, I think you got a good deal, if it's a bit above, that's still fair pricing. But much above, you can do better.

My thought is: vendors with high quality diamonds should back up their sales.

 

[NotCreative]

Hi OP, 7 days isn't really very long. I had a 10 day return window and it seemed very short. Something might come up at work or home and eat up half that time easily. You would really need all your ducks in a row to have it appraised in that time and review it yourself, playing with it with settings etc. However, based on the numbers and GIA report you linked, it seems like a safe bet. I wouldn't pay any extra for a VVS stone, so I'm guessing the price to be around $17-$19k. If it falls into that range, I think you got a good deal, if it's a bit above, that's still fair pricing. But much above, you can do better.

My thought is: vendors with high quality diamonds should back up their sales.

Thanks for all the replies. This stone is priced significantly higher than that range. I looked up stones with similar stats on sites like bluenile and it appeared to be in line. Do you see stones with similar stats for the price you mentioned?

 

[luvdajules]

I didn't mean to alarm you, but remember I said I wouldn't pay extra for the higher clarity. So, I was going by VS2/Si1 specs of similar size and color. Does that help? But you may have personal or cultural reasons to go that high in clarity so that doesn't help you.

 

[NotCreative]

No problem, thanks for clarifying. Also, this purchase would come with the setting, so I wouldn't have to scramble to find the setting. My main concerns are the lack of any return policy and only 7 days to make a change to the piece should the recipient so desire.

 

[luvdajules]

ok good Just for your reference, did you happen to see this other post/thread where another poster was looking for a similar stone?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-opinion-rb-1-5ct-e-vs2-image-and-info-provided.205892/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-opinion-rb-1-5ct-e-vs2-image-and-info-provided.205892/[/URL]

At the end, you will see they chose their first selection from the beginning, an E VS2 stone that GOG had called in for them. GOG made a video along with 2 F VS2 stones that are very pretty and still available around $17k. The E stone was a little more, but not by much, the poster mentioned. If you are interested in the F stones, or would want GOG to call in another E stone and provide all the reflector images and return/upgrade policy, I'm sure they would provide excellent service. However, I understand your desire to work with a local vendor where you can see the stone in person before purchase. It's a big purchase and a meaningful one. Also, a nice solid platinum setting is $2-3k, especially if it's a brand name designer piece. So, your total ring price from your local jeweler has that built in.

My feeling is now, the 7 day window is probably more to do about the stone decision. If your intended wants to change the setting, she would need to just say so within that time frame but so hammer out what they mean so there's no confusion or disappointment.