Help needed following bad appraisal

[mattjam]

My fiancee and I purchased our e-ring a couple of weeks ago and had it appraised at the weekend. I have a certificate of authenicity from the jeweller I purchased the ring from stating that it is:

1) 0.92 ct; and
2) IF quality.

The assessment said it was:

1) 0.65ct; and
2) SI2 quality.

I''m not quite sure how to feel, as we spent a lot of time looking at diamonds and read a lot of information on this site - we did not look at the diamond in a loose state, as it was already preset, though we did have a new ring made and the diamond set into this ring.

Is there anything that I can do about this - I feel that we have been either duped and that the jeweller has misrepresented the diamond or that the jeweller has been negligent in their assessment. The stone was bought from what I thought was a reputable store in Argentina, which also has a store in New York. All suggestions would be gratefully received.

 

[jaz464]

Holy crap! IF to SI2?! I have to ask, did you use a loupe on the diamond before you bought it? The vast majority (IMO) of SI2s show some inclusions, often even w/o a loupe. An IF is internally flawless. Well anyway, I would go back to that jeweler straight away and bring in the appraisal you obtained. This is not a question of being a little off- you were screwed over big time. I would demand my money back for the diamond, no other options. If you feel that you yourself are not a very good judge of diamonds, I would have them appraised before you buy next time or at the very least, have it written into the return policy that if the diamond appraises at a lower value than the seller states, you can get your money back. Also, just curious, was the appraiser independent? Did he/she sell diamonds?

 

[strmrdr]

youch.
That is a huge difference someone is a crook.
Good luck getting it resolved.

 

[WinkHPD]

Get a second opinion from another appraiser. If it is the same as the 1st, take the ring back to the seller and let them know you want both the money for the stone and the money for the appraisers back or you are going to the states attorney general.

This is so far outside the normal parameters of accuracy in carat weight and quality that it represents either a serious mistake or serious fraud, neither of which you have to tolerate.

If the second appraiser agrees with the store, then go to the first appraiser and demand a refund. I concider this option to be the less likely. For one thing, to grade a stone as IF it would have to be unmounted and graded loose, but it should be easy to determine if it is an SI2, and judging the weight to within 10% is also pretty easy except in rare cases. Ask to see some of the inclusions under a microscope. Seeing even one will make it VERY clear that the store lied about the quality.

Please keep us posted as to what transpires.

Wink

 

[Lorelei]

WOW! How terrible, in your situation I would take Wink''s advice and do what he said. I hope you get this situation resolved.

 

[denverappraiser]

Save your money on the second appraisal, at least for now. Ask the appraiser what they saw that made them call it an SI2. This should be a very easy question. It should already be in the report in the form of a plotting diagram, photographs or something and they should be willing to explain what it means but, if it’s not there, ring them up and ask them. There will be something called a ‘grade setting’ inclusion. This is what they saw that caused them to call it an SI2 instead of an SI1 and it will be obvious under 10x magnification. If you find it, go back to the jeweler and point it out. If you can’t find it, go back to the appraiser and have them point it out. IF should have nothing in it that you can see - Nothing. The appraisal should also explain how he determined the weight. Usually this is done by formula using the dimensions and the measurements used will be included. The certificate of authenticity may also list the dimensions. If so, do they match? Are they even close?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[koko]

Would it make a difference in the jeweler''s liablility if it went from SI2 to SI1 by an appariser(s)? I heard about jewelers "grade bumping" because legally the have the leeway to use their discretion if it''s within one grade. I have a 1.15C emerald cut SI1, but there is a noticeable feather under the table (toward the side).....I''m wondering if I really have a SI2 since I can see it with the naked eye, especially in daylight. Or if it''s because it''s an ec that I can see it......

 

[moremoremore]

I''d take it back asap and demand a refund.... a .92 is not even remotely a .6 stone. They are not the same stone. You''ve been scammed.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/10/2005 9:09:19 AM
Author: koko
Would it make a difference in the jeweler''s liablility if it went from SI2 to SI1 by an appariser(s)? I heard about jewelers ''grade bumping'' because legally the have the leeway to use their discretion if it''s within one grade. I have a 1.15C emerald cut SI1, but there is a noticeable feather under the table (toward the side).....I''m wondering if I really have a SI2 since I can see it with the naked eye, especially in daylight. Or if it''s because it''s an ec that I can see it......

Koko.

That’s a remarkably complicated question. In the US, dealers are required to deliver products that are what was agreed. If they sell you a rose, they must deliver a rose. If they sell you an SI1, they must deliver an SI1. As with many things, the difficulty is in the details.

For starters, not everyone uses the same definitions of the various clarity grades. Even among graders who use the GIA scale there is room for disagreement between different graders but there are quite a few dealers and labs that simply don’t use this scale. IGI, the biggest lab in the world, does not. Neither does EGL. An IGI-SI1 should appropriately be compared to other IGI-SI1’s and the fact that AGS might call it something different is not the point.

Dealers tread a fine line. If they call it an SI1, they must deliver an SI1. If they don’t say what scale they are using, they are presumed to be using the GIA scale, which is the most common and the dealer can be held to that standard. If, on the other hand, they call it a diamond accompanied by a report wherein IGI describes it as SI1, they must deliver that. Do you see the difference?

In the case of Mattjam’s question, none of this is the issue. There is no lab or grader that I’ve ever heard of that will confuse the border between IF and SI2. Theoretically they could have invented their own grading scale where these two grades are close together but if this was not clearly explained at the time of purchase, it would be reasonable for the customer to assume that the term IF was being used in a standard fashion and they could be held liable for the accuracy.

I think it’s likely that the problem here is a simple misunderstanding. The jeweler sold the diamond based on a description that they got from their supplier and somewhere in the chain the paperwork got switched with a different stone. No one bothered to look at the stone and they just sold it based on what it said on the paper. Some other lucky customer ended up with a much better stone than they expected. If this is the case, it should be easy to recognize by simply looking at the stone with the jeweler and, by all means, an immediate refund and a sniveling apology is called for. By the way, they should refund for the appraisers fee as well. I would not go so far as to call it a scam unless you have reason to think it’s deliberate deception. Another option, by the way, is that the appraiser is simply wrong. This, too, might be a scam or mere incompetence. If either is the case, it will be easy to spot and the jeweler should be happy to assist in pointing it out since their reputation is on the line.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Lorelei]

Neil I love the " sniveling apology"

LOL!!

 

[mattjam]

Thanks for the helpful replies so far. The one real problem I have is that I purchased the ring whilst in Argentina. I live in the UK, so taking it back is not that simple. I''d be happy to send the ring back FEDEX provided the money was put into an escrow account (or some such thing). I''ve spoken with my credit card company and whilst they do not understand the in''s and out''s of diamonds, they are being very supportive and have said that they will take the matter up as a disputed payment if the jeweller does not give me a refund.

It is all a bit odd though, as the jeweller had to take the diamond out of a ring and make a custom ring to house the diamond - therefore the diamond was loose during this process and they could have easily checked it''s weight etc at this time. I''m feeling a bit better about the situation than I did before - thanks in part to the replies here. I still feel a bit like I got mugged, which is not great when we went to an exclusive jeweller in Buenos Aires.

 

[denverappraiser]

That does add a complication. For starters, I’ve got no clue about grading standards in Argentina. Is there anything useful about this included on the certificate of authenticity that they provided you? Contact the jeweler and explain your dilemma. They will probably ask for a copy of the appraisal and advise you to get a second opinion from a local appraiser. I continue to suggest that you talk your original appraiser to make sure that you fully understand their report. After you choose an appraiser, give the jeweler the opportunity to comment on their qualifications before any work is actually done. Try to propose an appraiser that the jeweler will agree is an acceptable arbiter. This step can save you quite a bit of grief at the end if it turns out that there is still a dispute about what the jeweler sold you.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[koko]

Thanks, Denver for all of your helpful advice.....very informative. My ring has a GIA cert., by the way.

 

[WinkHPD]

You are getting very great advice from Denver Appraiser. I second his motion that you now go back to your appraiser and ask to see the diamond under the scope, he will gladly show you every thing that you are needing to see. (Both Denver and I know the appraiser is 99% likely to be right and are being kind to tell you there is a chance he is not, but it will be real easy to see the inclusions in an SI2 stone so he will be REAL happy to prove his competence to you!)

As for the difference between an SI1 and an SI2 I am glad I read down to see that Denver had already answered that question very thouroughly.

GIA states in their class work that there may often be a difference of opinion between qualified graders of 1 grade up or down, but the case in question here is obviously for MUCH more than that. Somebody screwed up in this case. Whether the stone was accidentally switched with another or not, they sold you a sow''s ear when they charged you for a silk purse. The Intergalactic travel does make return more difficult, but Fedex makes it somewhat easier and as all merchants know, the credit card companies almost always always side with the customer, so you should be okay provided you get good tracking on your package so that you can prove delivery.

Wink

 

[mattjam]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 142px">Date: 10/10/2005 12:00:09 PM
Author: denverappraiser

...For starters, I’ve got no clue about grading standards in Argentina. Is there anything useful about this included on the certificate of authenticity that they provided you?

The certificate says (and I apologies for the English, as I am providing the direct translation) the scale of purity used is that normally utilized in Europe as:

IF - Internally pure
VVS - Tiny inclusions

VS - Very small inclusions

SI - Small inclussions

P1 - "Piqué1" - I am unsure what this means

P2 - "Piqué2" - I am unsure what this means

P3 - "Piqué3" - I am unsure what this means

It seems pretty self evident to me that IF means IF in the GIA sense, or am I wrong on this? Given that the jeweller has a branch in Manhattan, I imagine that it would universally use a sensible grading system. Moreover, the owner of the jeweller, against whom the shop was named personally oversaw the whole transaction and signed the certificate and other documentation - one would expect that he would have the knowledge as to what an IF is...

 

[Lorelei]

Pique is French for marked, blemished. Therefore

Pique 1 = i1 - imperfect 1

Pique 2 - imperfect 2

Pique 3 - imperfect 3

This is a very basic interpretation of imperfect / pique grading , it is also my understanding that EGL Europe use the pique description for the lower grades. Hope this helps until Neil and Wink log in. Regarding IF IMO I would think it wouldn't matter too much who graded the diamond as with IF it should mean just that - no inclusions visible inside the diamond and there wouldn't be much room for disagreement. Just my 2 cents.

 

[perry]

Unfortunately, I feel that the chances of your recovering anything is slight. Work with your appraisier to identify the flaws in the diamond. Contact the vendor. But I am unsure how you will arrange a transaction that will get you your money back if you return the diamond (except for trustworthyness of the vendor). The vendor may have similar concerns on how to get the diamond back if they send you the money first. Even credit card companies have limitations working accros international boundries.

The strongest defense against fraud is to become an educated consumer before buying anything of value in a remote foreign country.

For diamonds, Pricescope is a wonderfull resource.

Perry

 

[WinkHPD]

Credit cards are a wonderful instrument. They will normally side with the buyer and simply take the money out of the vendors account. You must first be able to prove that you returned the purchased item.

As a vendor I can tell you it is difficult to stop them from doing it unless you can prove the claim is baseless and bogus.

Our supplicant here has much more power than he would have if he had paid by check or cash.

Wink

 

[mattjam]

I''m going to contact the jeweller today and see what he has to say about the matter. I''ll post an update later on.

 

[mattjam]

I received a response from the jeweller.

He has assured me that his certification is correct and has asked me to get the diamond rechecked, this time in a loose state. If the diamond is not of the correct weight, he said he will give me the ring and a full refund.

He did not address the clarity issue, so I have sent him another message - hopefully the Spanish will be better this time as a friend translated my message to him this time.

Fingers crossed. Up until the valuation we had a great experience, so I''m hoping that it all gets resolved, though from the posts I''ve read, I think it unlikely that we have an IF stone...

 

[WinkHPD]

This is excellent news. Might I recommend that you find someone who can be a witness to the removal and weighing of the stone to avoid any claims of, "Hey, this is NOT the stone we sent". Please get a good witness and video the removal of the stone. First weight the entire ring, then remove the stone and weight the stone, then place the ring and any pieces of broken prong etc in the pan and weigh the entire ring again to prove that you did not pony up the weight.

Good luck, sounds as if you are on the right track.

Wink