Help- I think that I bought a hazy diamond- fluorescence "pictures"

[diamond911]

Okay, I am a little freaked out and need some advice from the pros especially those lovers of fluorescence. I think that I am a fluorescence lover as well, but I''m not sure anymore after this one and only experience in buying a diamond. I finally bought a stone 1.7 H SI1, table 56 CA 34.5 PA 41 depth 62.4... and was really excited about it.... I was aware of the RARE negative effects of fluorescence and took the gamble with a "strong fluorescence" GIA ex ex ex thinking that the cert might help with peace of mind. I love the look of diamonds posted with a clear blue glow... Anyway, long story short, I received the diamond and it is completely murky in sunlight, could it be misgraded and should it be a "very strong" fluorescence stone? I have seen others that remain crystal clear and have a blue or purple tint but this one almost becomes speckled and opaque. It is an eye clean SI1 with nothing on the table (eye clean according to the vendor but we can see 2 small crystals off to the side)...in these photos though, in sunlight, it transforms into something speckled and opaque.... my question is, as I continue my search, is this the rare haziness that can appear in a stone with strong fluorescence? If I like the clear blue appearance of other PSers photos of their diamonds with fluorescence do I continue to look for a diamond with fluorescence. Is it unlikely that I see this same effect in another diamond in sunlight? Should I buy medium fluorescence? Please comment on my pictures and provide any feedback. I was really excited to be finished shopping and am now starting from scratch...

my budget is 11-12 K if you have any suggestions for me

 

[diamond911]

another pic

 

[Stone-cold11]

Nope, that is not what a hazy/oily stone cause by over-blue looks like.

This is just over exposure from the light returning to your eyes.

This is what over-blue looks like.

 

[Lula]

Hi, Diamond911, I''m sorry you''re concerned about your stone! My diamond has strong blue fluorescence.

Your diamond looks dark in the photos, but all well-cut diamonds exhibit this dark look in the sunlight, so the photos may be misleading you.

In my experience, the fluorescence is fleeting and only shows at certain angles, and the sunlight has to be direct and bright. But the color is definitely blue. However, it is hard to see with my eyes, and difficult for the camera to capture, because the diamond is throwing off fire at the same time and when the diamond is moved, the colors and sparkle move, too.

Also, your body and the camera may be obscuring the light going into the diamond.

Here are my suggestions:
Make sure the diamond is clean! Soak it in a gentle cleaner (don''t leave the drain open). Rinse and blot it dry.
Place the diamond outside on some sort of prop to hold it face up. Walk around the diamond, making sure you are in bright sunlight, not shadow, and see if you can see the fluorescence with your eyes.

Again, you must be in direct sunlight. I don''t see any fluorescence in the shade, on a cloudy day, or indoors. At certain angles and in certain lighting, my diamond looks dark, and when it goes "dark" I can see a lot of fire, but no blue fluorescence.

The opaqueness may be because your diamond is not clean (diamonds can get a film on them from lotion, skin oils, etc.) and the speckles may be dust on the diamond or reflections from the inclusions.

Observe it some more and take a few more photos in different lighting and post those.

 

[Lula]

Date: 4/29/2010 6:04:52 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Nope, that is not what a hazy/oily stone cause by over-blue looks like.


This is just over exposure from the light returning to your eyes.


This is what over-blue looks like.

Thanks, Stone! I was looking for that photo!

 

[diamond911]

Hi and thanks for your reply Stone Cold

So would you say that this is the "normal" appearance of strong fluorescence? I am especially concerned with the speckles that are more obvious in the second photo. They look like powder sprinkled in the diamond and make it opaque looking. I am confused as I was under the impression that the color would remain clear but take on a subtle blue sheen...but I can''t see through the diamond in sunlight. Can you or anyone confirm if that is normal. I will feel much better if it is.... although I am strongly considering medium fluorescence instead. The diamond is very white in diffused lighting... not sure if that matters in analyzing it.

 

[Stone-cold11]

You need to clean it.

 

[diamond911]

It is new and has just arrived from the vendor- it hasn''t been anywhere but it''s little box.... hasn''t been worn or exposed to lotion or anything....but maybe it was dirty when it was shipped, I guess that you never know. I will clean it and check for any change in its appearance. I hope that this solves the problem. Does anyone else''s strong blue look like this one? thx!

 

[CharmyPoo]

If you aren''t happy about the way it looks, just return it ... don''t try to convince yourself you like it.

 

[Lula]

Date: 4/29/2010 6:29:22 PM
Author: diamond911
It is new and has just arrived from the vendor- it hasn''t been anywhere but it''s little box.... hasn''t been worn or exposed to lotion or anything....but maybe it was dirty when it was shipped, I guess that you never know. I will clean it and check for any change in its appearance. I hope that this solves the problem. Does anyone else''s strong blue look like this one? thx!

It could just be fingerprints, too. But fingerprints on the top of the diamond could be affecting the way it looks to your eye and certainly in magnified photos.

If it''s brand new, take a day or two to get to know it -- and look at it in all lights, from several angles and from different distances. It''s amazing how many different "looks" a diamond can have.

Also, I''m not sure about this, and maybe some experts can chime in to clarify, but I''m not sure if all stones with fluorescence fluoresce in sunlight, and I''m not sure if it could be true that a stone graded by GIA or AGS (or any other lab) could be incorrectly labeled as fluorescent.

Have you looked at your stone under a black light? That should tell you in an instant if the stone has fluorescence!

 

[diamond911]

Hi- I do hope that some experts chime in with more opinions on this diamond. I have cleaned it and it is still speckled and opaque in direct sunlight. There is no doubt in my mind that the change in its appearance is because of its fluorescence and exposure to UV as it does not look speckled out of sunlight and it is clear like a normal diamond.... I am particularly interested if this is the "normal" appearance of a diamond with strong fluorescence or just a fluke and unlikely in other stones with strong fluorescence. This will help me determine if I want strong fluorescence or not, unfortunately this particular diamond is unattractive to me with the multiple speckles and lack of transparency so it has to go back... I am so upset. I have read all kinds of information prior to purchasing and based on my research, any effect from fluorescence is very rare so maybe I am unlucky enough to get the one of the few duds out there.

?

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI 911,
You're looking at the diamond, and I trust your judgement.
A small percentage of stones graded "Strong Blue" look hazy in sunlight- it does not have to be "Very Strong Blue"
In fact grading the degree of fluorescence is not all that consistent even for GIA.
Some medium stones look pretty strong fl to me......

From the sound of it, you're not happy, and that's really the determining factor.

ETA- by all means continue to consider fl stones.
Personally I prefer stones with table sizes a little larger- and I believe such stones look great in Medium or strong blue many times.

 

[diamond911]

Thank you for your feedback David. I will keep my eyes open for a larger table with medium fluorescence.I was deliberately shopping for small tables initially as based on what I had read, they were preferred on the forum. Maybe that is different for diamonds with fluorescence. I guess with such variation with GIA etc I guess that it can be hit or miss with fluorescence cert report or not. Good to know, thanks.

 

[Jennifer2828]

Mine also is a strong blue, GIA EX, H, SI1, 2.03 ct and it looks just like your in direct sunlight.

It doesn''t really bother me though because I am not in direct sunlight much, and it''s not like diamonds look pretty in direct sunlight anyway as they go "dark". It looks amazing in most other lighting conditions, so I love it, but it is personal preference.

My GIA report does note "internal graining" which is what I always thought the "speckle" might be.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Take it to a trusted appraiser and ask for their assessment. Your pics look like a normal diamond in the sun to me. If you have not seen many ideally cut stones in thesunlight you may not know what they look like. Not sure about the speckles you refer to, I don't see anything in that photo that is out of the ordinary. You should not be able to "see through" your diamonds, and the variation in the patterning on the photo looks like the facets to me. In bright sunlight diamonds tend to go quite dark the way yours has in the photos, basically it is light overload and the eye adjusts.

 

[diamond911]

thanks Jennifer2828- the report on this one doesn''t mention any internal graining. It just says "pinpoints not shown".... there are 4 pinpoint dots on the plot. Very good point though, is your stone GIA or AGS? Maybe the GIA doesn''t mention internal graining if this is the result of graining along with other differences in the way that diamonds are gradeded. The word "grain" would be a good one to describe what I am seeing for sure with multiple little dots and speckles throughout the diamond.

Any additional comments about whether this could be internal graining and not the effect from the fluorescence?

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Date: 4/29/2010 8:31:48 PM
Author: diamond911
thanks Jennifer2828- the report on this one doesn''t mention any internal graining. It just says ''pinpoints not shown''.... there are 4 pinpoint dots on the plot. Very good point though, is your stone GIA or AGS? Maybe the GIA doesn''t mention internal graining if this is the result of graining along with other differences in the way that diamonds are gradeded. The word ''grain'' would be a good one to describe what I am seeing for sure with multiple little dots and speckles throughout the diamond.

Any additional comments about whether this could be internal graining and not the effect from the fluorescence?

Sounds like what I see when my diamond is a little dusty or when it has some water dried on it.

 

[ecf8503]

I have D color H&A rb with strong blue fluor, and it looks just like that. And I think ALL diamonds have a "speckled" look to them in direct sunlight (all of my diamonds do, even when they are sparkling clean). I think that''s just an inherent property of diamonds. I know exactly what you are referring to, and I see it in my G color GOG AVC with no fluor too.

 

[diamond911]

Thanks dreamer... I have thought about bringing it to an independent appraiser but I think that as is, it will bother me- I have to find another. I am curious though but I''m not sure it would be worth it to invest anything into it. If I consider another strong blue I will invest in the appraisal to be sure of the next one. It may be difficult to see but it appears like the entire diamond is covered in tiny dots, so many of them that it becomes opaque. I know you are an expert on fluorescence so I looked again and again however 3 of our friends see the same thing- I thought that the second photo captured it fairly well but if you feel that this is normal, then perhaps you are right as I haven''t had a diamond of this size before and one with any fluorescence. It isn''t this way in bright interior lighting just in sunlight. The many small dots more apparent around the the Left edge of the second photo are found throughout the stone- not sure if this helps at all.

 

[Stone-cold11]

Looks at some of the GOG video of stone under spot lighting.

 

[diamond911]

style="WIDTH: 95.61%; HEIGHT: 15px">Date: 4/29/2010 8:36:39 PM
Author: ecf8503
I have D color H&A rb with strong blue fluor, and it looks just like that. And I think ALL diamonds have a ''speckled'' look to them in direct sunlight (all of my diamonds do, even when they are sparkling clean). I think that''s just an inherent property of diamonds. I know exactly what you are referring to, and I see it in my G color GOG AVC with no fluor too.

Really!? Does anyone else agree about speckles in all diamonds? I really had no idea and this may change a lot for me.

 

[diamond911]

Date: 4/29/2010 8:42:13 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Looks at some of the GOG video of stone under spot lighting.

I will try to look at a GOG video to understand what you are referring to....Would the inclusions cause the speckles or is it diamonds in general. Mine is an SI1 but there are a few tiny inclusions and the speckles are throughout the entire diamond. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 4/29/2010 8:46:30 PM
Author: diamond911

Really!? Does anyone else agree about speckles in all diamonds? I really had no idea and this may change a lot for me.

Nope... none of my diamonds have speckles.

 

[diamond911]

Date: 4/29/2010 8:53:37 PM
Author: CharmyPoo

Date: 4/29/2010 8:46:30 PM
Author: diamond911

Really!? Does anyone else agree about speckles in all diamonds? I really had no idea and this may change a lot for me.

Nope... none of my diamonds have speckles.

I was hoping that I wouldn''t have to settle for speckles, you give me hope.

 

[Stone-cold11]

http://vimeo.com/11310658

Fluor video.
http://vimeo.com/10790646

 

[iota15]

Date: 4/29/2010 8:31:48 PM
Author: diamond911
thanks Jennifer2828- the report on this one doesn''t mention any internal graining. It just says ''pinpoints not shown''.... there are 4 pinpoint dots on the plot. Very good point though, is your stone GIA or AGS? Maybe the GIA doesn''t mention internal graining if this is the result of graining along with other differences in the way that diamonds are gradeded. The word ''grain'' would be a good one to describe what I am seeing for sure with multiple little dots and speckles throughout the diamond.

Any additional comments about whether this could be internal graining and not the effect from the fluorescence?

I think what you are seeing are the PINPOINTS.

You have 4 larger pinpoints, and THEN, GIA cert states "pinpoints not shown". For all you know, there are a dozen microscopic pinpoints that GIA decided wasn''t big enough to plot. When reflected in bright sunlight, the natural dark effect of the diamond as well as the fact the sunlight is now reflecting off those pinpoints makes them all visible.

If what I think are the pinpoints bother you, return it. I don''t think it''s the floro though. In fact, from the pictures, I''m not seeing all that much blue and definitely not the overblue, as shown in Stone-cold''s post.

 

[iota15]

You have an SI1. Inclusions exist in your stone, even if they''re not eye visible 99.98% of the time. You have to determine if you get another stone (VS1, Si1 or otherwise), whether those inclusions are going to bother you. Even with the eye cleanest VS stone, I bet if you looked at it in certain angles in certain lighting, someone with decent vision would be able to see something up close.

However, since you bought the floro stone so you can experience the neat effect in the sunlight, and this sunlight appears to be the only condition where those freckles show up, you might try to find another one.

 

[iota15]

Plus, (now I''m just curious), I thought floro comes from some type of gas mixed into the diamond during its formation. If not, what is it? what creates it? I don''t think, or at least I haven''t seen pictures where the floro resulted in specks of floro in random areas. Maybe the experts can weigh in on this?

 

[Stone-cold11]

Date: 4/29/2010 10:21:43 PM
Author: iota15
Plus, (now I''m just curious), I thought floro comes from some type of gas mixed into the diamond during its formation. If not, what is it? what creates it? I don''t think, or at least I haven''t seen pictures where the floro resulted in specks of floro in random areas. Maybe the experts can weigh in on this?

yap, nitrogen atoms, not gas. A very small amount, distributed in the stone to cause fluor throughout the stone, not concentrated in specks.

 

[diamond911]

Does anyone else think that this speckled effect is the "pinpoints"; I know that it is SI1 but I was told that this is close to a VS as they are hardly noticeable. Here is a picture of the clarity plot- the "cloud"is one of the tiny dots in a side facet- the few pinpoints are the other 3 dots noted. I was under the impression that if there were other inclusions such as additional pinpoints not noted on the clarity plot they would write "additional pinpoints not shown" not "pinpoints not shown". Can any expert clarify this; could there be multiple hidden pinpoints that show up in sunlight or surface graining if it is not plotted by the GIA. Could these spots be by-products of the fluorescent reaction? I am no diamond expert by any means obviously, but I have a science degree and this gas talk brings be back to chemistry class somewhat and chemical reactions and their by-products.

Any more opinions on whether these dots and the lack of transparency are what one would expect in strong fluorescence diamond? I want to track another down but I don''t want this to repeat itself with another stone.