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Help for the new guy... Online buying

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WillieMoe

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
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4
Let me start by saying that i have dreaded the thought of shopping for a diamond for quite some time. There are so many ways a guy like myself can mess this up. But after spending a few weeks on this site, i am actually "into it" and looking forward to the purchase. You all provide a valuable service and it''s very much appreciated!
I have found a local jewelry store that has been around for a long time and has a good reputation here in town. I found a salesman who actually seems to know his stuff and i believe he is being honest with me. With that being said, i also realize he shows up to work every day to make money... and the more money the better. After seeing what he had to offer, i checked out some of the online stores that you all talk about. It wasn''t difficult to quickly find ideal cut stones with the same cut, color, and clarity ratings that he was showing me, but for significantly less money. Like i said earlier, i have developed a pretty good relationship with him, so i printed off a few examples and took them in to show him. He quickly pointed out that all of my examples were EGL certified. He told me that EGL reports can frequently be off by more than an acceptable margin, in fact by several colors and clarity levels. He also told me that of course he was just going from past experience, but he was willing to lay a pretty hefty sum of money on the table that we were not comparing apples to apples here. What do you folks think? Do i really need to accept nothing less than GIA when buying online to get what i''m looking for? Is it common when purchasing online to not get what you''re expecting? Just to give you some background, I''m looking for a 2 carat round stone, VS2-SI2, H-I in color, ideal cut. If i do buy a stone online, what should i do once i get it? Take it to have it appraised to see if it''s infact what the cert states it is? What kinds of questions should i ask an online seller before making a purchase? Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated!
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
12,145
While the top standard is GIA certification, EGL USA certified stones are very acceptable. EGL graded stones may be off a color grade, but clarity wise I think they are pretty good actually. You may want to get a stone a grade higher in color if you go EGL rather than GIA. Independent appraisals are ALWAYS a good thing immediately after purchase. Good luck!
 

chantheman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
59
Willie, welcome to PS.

First off, you can surely get a well graded EGL stone, you just need to make sure it is EGL USA. While your jeweler is correct in his assessment of EGL being off by a margin, keep in mind that when you take your stone for appraisal, your appraiser may give you a color or clarity grade that is different from the cert. This is not common, but does happen, and is not a big deal.

Buying a diamond online is a simple experience as long as you keep in mind some key points.

1) Cut is the key....it dictates the light performance of the stone and allows the stone to mask color and inclusions.
2) At a minimum an online vendor should be willing to provide you with an image of the certification, and if it is a GIA cert, a Sarin or Megascope proportion report. This will allow you to assess the critical crown and pavillion angles of the stone.
3) Most PS vendors will also provide you with idealscope, or firescope images which allow you to ascertain the amount of light leaking out of the sides and bottom of the diamond. Great cut=minimal light leakage.
4) Online sellers should give you a return guarantee that allows you to return the stone no questions asked within a certain number of days. Around PS this can be anywhere from 7 days....if you don't pay for the stone first, to 30 days if you pay ahead of time. This window of time allows you to consult with an independent appraiser who does not sell diamonds regarding the stone. Many PS vendors will ship directly to a chosen appraiser and you can pick your stone up from him/her
5) Use the PS knowledge section of the home page to learn about choosing an appraiser. Also check the various PS vendor sites to get an idea of what types of images are supplied. Some vendors do not post all images on the web, but will readily provide them when asked.

Ultimately remember that your eyes are important here. Give the brick and mortar shop a chance and if your jeweler shows you a great GIA certed stone, ask him for a Sarin or Megascope. In the end you need to personally take the diamond into a variety of lighting conditions so you can accurately assess its performance.

Make this journey fun, there is nothing to dread.
 

Lord Summerisle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Messages
866
Also,

have alookie through this site, i know i have read a report on here that looked at the consistancy of different labs gradings... taking GIA as a datum. i think it concluded that pritty much all of the labs where close... but the cert had an effect on price with AGS certs allowing the rock to command a slightly higher price, and i thats all i can remember at this moment.

I belive when it comes to colour grading, this is done by eye, against a grading sheet, hence it is not uncommon if its a close call.. for it to go either way when viewed by 2 different ppl... i believe the report noted that in one or 2 cases the same diamond was returned to the lab which origonally graded the stone, and the second report was a colour grade different. again probly nothing to worry about. start worrying if and when you send it to an appriaser, and the diamond you hada cert for said it was say a D or E and the appraiser said ''nah mate its a J'' THEN start to worry and question.

In the end, see what he has to offer.. and if something stands out then go with it. theres a couple of handly little gizmos around like the light scope you can get. A it gives you something to play with, i know we blokes like gadgets, even if we dont really know what they show us... we like to think we do. and if you study the CZ stone that comes with it then you have a good chance of being able to compar the stones your man in the jewellers has to offer.

remember some store''s lighting is designed to show even the worst stone off at its best, and in the real world it''ll be as lifeless as a peice of glass. but you could also find a real sparkler.

It is always good to have a good relationship with a local jewellers - they can look after you in the long term, but also, if what he has to offer doesnt excite you, you can always broach the option of you getting the stone, and him making the setting. to which he may be agreeable. Thats how i ended up going forward.

ok will stop my ramblings
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
EGL does have a less than stellar rep for being lax and inconsistent. But, EGL USA has been tightening the reins in recent years. Due to the rep, EGL diamonds tend to trade at a discount when compared to comparable GIA and AGS Certed stones. The upside for you as a buyer,............. If you purchase an accurately graded EGL diamond you will realize a bit of a bargain. In the size range you are looking, that could be a rather significant pricing difference.

It''s great that you have found a trustworthy local source who seems to be working to earn your business. Keep in mind that he/she may not be able to price match completely. If your local B&M gets within a reasonable margin, it could be good to work with him/her. Local shops provide nice little services for their customers. Like changing batteries in your watch, removing links from the watch band you just got so it fits you perfectly, cleanings, inspections, etc.

I, personally wouldn''t worry about an EGL Certed diamond. Make purchase contingent on a satisfactory, independent appraisal/evaluation. Like was noted above, the appraiser''s opinion may even vary from the Cert by a grade. Buy the diamond and not the Cert, and with and EGL diamond, you may wind up getting yourself a bit of a bargain in the process.
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WillieMoe

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4
Thank you all for your replies. This is the kind of information i am looking for. I have requested some of the information that you all recommended. Thanks again.
 

WillieMoe

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4
Not a good start to my online diamond purchase. I requested some information about a diamond from Whiteflash a week ago and still no response whats so ever. For somebody that was on the fence about shopping for a stone online, whiteflash has certainly made my decision easy. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to get a response from them if i had a problem with my purchase. I''ll stick with B&M. Thanks all!
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
hey williemoe.....sorry to hear about this unanswered email.... it's unfortunate that for some reason this has happened, but i don't think you should hinge your entire online buying experience on this anamoly. did you try calling wf? sometimes a simple phone call can get the job done much faster, especially during an extremely busy time (valentines!). email is handy, but not always reliable. don't give up just yet, you might miss out on finding a really good stone. best of luck!!
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
WF is usually pretty reliable on getting back to people but email itself isnt always reliable.

Your b&m dealer sounds like he is trying to do right by you and deserves a chance to earn your business but dont let one lost email turn you off on all online dealers.
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
Date: 2/13/2005 10
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9:32 PM
Author: WillieMoe
Not a good start to my online diamond purchase. I requested some information about a diamond from Whiteflash a week ago and still no response whats so ever. For somebody that was on the fence about shopping for a stone online, whiteflash has certainly made my decision easy. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to get a response from them if i had a problem with my purchase. I''ll stick with B&M. Thanks all!

WillieMoe (Jeff from your profile?)

I don''t know why your email went unanswered but that is not typical. If you let me know what address you mailed to and/or from I assure you I''ll find out what happened, and I will be happy to help you get in touch with our sales staff rapidly if you still have interest.

Feel free to reply here, PM me or yahoo/AIM me at any time.
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,326
Date: 2/13/2005 10
6.gif
9:32 PM
Author: WillieMoe
Not a good start to my online diamond purchase. I requested some information about a diamond from Whiteflash a week ago and still no response whats so ever. For somebody that was on the fence about shopping for a stone online, whiteflash has certainly made my decision easy. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to get a response from them if i had a problem with my purchase. I''ll stick with B&M. Thanks all!
Willie: HI
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Let me start off by saying in the new age of the world wide web emails don''t always get through. I have had this problem in the past, (not with WhiteFlash). I have found if there is a particular vendor I like to work with or am interested in working with, if I don''t receive a return email in a day or so, I call them up on the phone. When sending information through the net via email there are a myriad of things that can go wrong.

I think it is fair to say before posting it might be prudent to give them a call and talk to a rep. It is frusterating but shouldn''t be the end all of your online possible diamond buying experience. Either way I hope you find what your looking for, just don''t count Whiteflash out because an email might not have been received..
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Let us know what you decide to do...
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LesleyH

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Messages
506
WillieMoe:

From your timeline and your first name in your profile, I believe I found your e-mail from 2/8 and hope you got my reply. As I explained, we get literally hundreds of e-mails and now and then one or two slip through the cracks. I hope that you will still consider Whiteflash as you search for your diamond.

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com
 

canadian_eh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
1
Wow, quite a response from Whiteflash themselves. I will be in the market for an engagement ring in the next 6-12 months and have lurked here for a while educating myself. The people in this forum are so knowlegable and insightful. As a Canadian I wonder if I will get more bang for my buck staying above the border due to border fees - but if somehow the mystical free trade agreement means there are no fees, I know Whiteflash will be at the top of my list. Happy Valentine''s everyone.
 

mocho

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6
I gotta say whiteflash gave me very excellent and attentive service while I was looking for a diamond.
 

Lord Summerisle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Messages
866
Gooda say...

I first emailed WF... i didnt get a responce - but the ni wasnt worried.. since it was only a couple of days beforethe christmas break, and i knew they would be better... and in the end, a couple of weeks into the new year as i was writting a PM to Sir John (by the way sir, while we may AIm you anytime.. i never see ya on!
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) an email from Lesley flashed in appologising for the delay, answering my origonal question.

Anyways... Just completed my purchase... better than anything i could have hoped for going into a B&M store round here. Even after Tax was still able get a larger stone that i would have done buying here in the UK. (and its 41% tax rate on diamonds coming in here.)
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
Date: 2/14/2005 2:15:35 PM
Author: Lord Summerisle

(by the way sir, while we may AIm you anytime.. i never see ya on!
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)

You are correct. AIM crashed my laptop in November. I am mondo-lotta-Yahoo right now.

(whispers) I want to trust AIM again... I really do... But... (tearful) When you''ve been burned like I have...it''s so hard! (sob)
 
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