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Help! Diamond turned White!

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Leanne

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I have a 1.82 carat round diamond that I had set in a new semi-mount the other day. When I went to pick up the ring my jeweler told me that when he was sizing the ring the heat made my diamond get a haze all over it. He told me that he suspected that my diamond has been treated. This was not disclosed to me when I bought it. I need some advice on how to handle this! Thanks in advance!
 

Kaleigh

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What kind of cert do you have for your stone???
 

valeria101

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Date: 6/4/2005 12:36:18 AM
Author:Leanne

the heat made my diamond get a haze all over it.
Diamonds burn ! There's no need to have been some treatment there - that's what happens with overheated diamonds: the polish is destroyed down to an opaque, white cover and needs to be redone. If this is even feasible (depending on how extensive the damage is) the operation is not costless and does involved some loss of weight - just like any other recut.
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This can't be "news" to the jeweler. It is not inconceivable that his claim is right (diamond was clarity enhanced and this did not show even upon close inspection), but even not treated diamonds can be damaged by heat.

IGI would have mentioned on their lab report if this stone was treated... IS it the case ? Unless the seller of this diamond just had it treated after certification
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There's always room for some bad news.

Can the jeweler repair the stone ?
 

Sunni79

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Date: 6/4/2005 12:36:18 AM
Author:Leanne
I have a 1.82 carat round diamond that I had set in a new semi-mount the other day. When I went to pick up the ring my jeweler told me that when he was sizing the ring the heat made my diamond get a haze all over it. He told me that he suspected that my diamond has been treated. This was not disclosed to me when I bought it. I need some advice on how to handle this! Thanks in advance!
Oh my! I would be freaking out!
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Did you contact the jeweler who sold it to you? Does it state on your receipt that the diamond is 100% natural and untreated? Is the diamond certed?
 

Kaleigh

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Valeria is right. If you over heat diamonds they can burn. This happened to my SIL''S ring which I just had work done on to replace the single cut stones that were burned and over heated by a previous jeweler.
 

Mara

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yep if you have a stone in a house fire or something, chances are when you find it (if?) it will be milky white and opaque...i think i read that it just needs to be repolished?

anyhow, i would take it to another jeweler or a reputable appraiser and get a 2nd opinion.

surprising though that your jeweler would have been heating the diamond and then tell you that it turned opaque from possibly being treated beforehand and not even disclose it *may* have been from his own handling? hmmm.

definitely get a 2nd opinion before panicking...good luck!
 

strmrdr

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Date: 6/4/2005 8:29:07 AM
Author: Feydakin
Repolishing is no problem.. The stone just needs to be removed from the mounting and sent to a polisher..


As for undiclosed treating causing this.. That would be my guess.. I''ve seen diamonds do strange things after being treated, turn yellow, turn green, go milky white, etc, all from not knowing ahead of time that they were treated so that they can be handled differently..


If its untreated how fine a line is it between using the right amount of heat and an amount that will damage a diamond?
IE. Does someone have to mess up in an extreme manner to burn one while working on a ring or is the difference in temp close that its a fine line?
 

strmrdr

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Date: 6/4/2005 10:48:52 AM
Author: Feydakin
You can burn an untreated diamond.. But I haven''t seen it in quite a while.. The prongs holding the stone will usually melt long before the diamond will burn if it''s set in gold.. It takes a pretty direct flame on the stone, or soldering platinum close to the stone to do this kind of damage to an untreated diamond.. It''s one of the reasons we bought a laser.. It takes that problem away entirely..


I just finished an article on sizing rings on our website (haven''t had time to retool it for PS yet) that shows most of the process.. Including the protective coating used to keep this from happening by keeping oxygen away fro the diamond making it very hard to burn..


Burning an untreated diamond is usually a pretty bad screw-up.. Burning a treated diamond is not too hard to do in the grand scheme of things.. In this case I''d have it repolished and then tested properly for treatments.. If treatments are found that were not disclosed at the time of sale, then you have a pretty good case for a refund.. But, and this is a huge but, sometimes guys to silly things and ''forget'' to tell their spouses in the hopes that no one will notice and it can lead to these issues..
Thanks for the info.
Kewl article
 

Leanne

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Thanks for all the posts! My diamond has an IGI cert that says it''s a natural diamond. There is nothing stated about any type of treatment or drilling. It is an I1, H-G but is (was) a beautiful stone. I bought it at Zales in Boulder, CO along with my husband for $8000. At the advice of my jeweler, the stone is currently being re polished. He then suggested that we will not know if it''s been chemically treated unless I send it into the GIA in California at the cost of $150-$200. My plan was to do this before I contacted Zales so that I will know for sure who is at fault. If my diamond has been treated it will come back from the polisher in it''s natural state & we will see if it is as eye clean as before it became hazey. I have many family members who have had complaints about the man that works for my jeweler. He has done some shoddy work on their jewelry & my sister actually lost a diamond out of her setting after he worked on her wedding ring. I wouldn''t be surprised if he burned my diamond so the only way of knowing for sure is to have it graded by the GIA. My jeweler said that''s the ony way to know for sure if it has been treated. Do you all agree?
 

Kaleigh

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That sounds like a good plan and keep us posted on your progress. Good luck, I hope everything works out for you!!!
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Mara

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Leanne...before you spend $200 to get GIA to look at the stone.....and if no experts chime in here, call an appraiser and take it to them or at least get another jeweler's opinion (pref a reputable one) to see what they say.

I don't know if the 'only way' to find out if it was treated is to have GIA look at it, that just seems kind of extreme...so if no one can answer this here, I'd investigate a bit more before just sending it off to the GIA because some random jeweler (whose guy may have screwed it up to begin with) says so.

Good luck!
 

Mara

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A quick search on google showed me this:

http://www.niceice.com/treatments.htm

Which has elaborate information on how to detect a treated diamond...and also notes this:

"If you are uncertain as to whether a diamond has been fracture filled, we recommend you have it examined by a qualified Graduate Gemologist who is not affiliated with the store you are dealing with."

So it seems like you don't have to send the diamond to the GIA after all, just find an independent GG or appraiser, don'tcha just love the internet?!
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Let us know what you find out!
 

Leanne

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The jeweler I''m dealing with is the manager of Riddle''s Jewelry in Rapid City, SD. We have purchased many pieces of jewelry from him in the past & they''ve appraised for or over what he''s told us. I trust him but I don''t trust the guy that works on the jewelry at their store. I have told him that I want to see my stone before he sends it into the GIA in CA. I will take it to the Rapid City Zales store & talk to them before I do anything else. My jeweler told me that Zales will blame them for damaging my diamond & that is why he suggested sending into the GIA. He also said that he can detect fracture filled stones but not clarity ehanced. I was hoping that the GG''s on this site would answer my post but I guess they don''t want to get involved. I do really appreciate all of your posts though! We girls have to stick together!!
 

Richard Sherwood

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Date: 6/4/2005 10:14:55 PM
Author: Leanne
I wouldn't be surprised if he burned my diamond so the only way of knowing for sure is to have it graded by the GIA. My jeweler said that's the ony way to know for sure if it has been treated. Do you all agree?

Hi Leanne. Seems like you've been getting plenty of good advice here.

The two possibilities are:

1. The diamond was burned.
2. The diamond was clarity enhanced (fracture filled), and the glass resin drained out of the fracture(s) after being heated.

Number 2 is much more likely, as Fedaykin points out it takes some serious heating of a diamond to burn it, and this is unlikely with the heat generated in a sizing job.

The thing that puzzles me though is that the loss of clarity enhancement resin would cause the formerly invisible feather (fracture) to once again be visible, but shouldn't cause the whole stone to be hazy. The whole stone should look normal, with the only new thing is a feather (or two) being visible which weren't visible before.

If the whole stone (instead of just portions of it) turned whitish or "hazy", that sounds more indicative of burning.

Regardless, either can be easily spotted by a competent gemologist. You could send it to GIA if you want to get "the last word" on the matter which nobody will dispute, but it's not necessary if you just want to find out what happened.
 

Leanne

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Thanks for your post Richard. My diamond had eye visible feathers before the heating. After heating the feathers were barely visible because of the haze. It almost looked as if I had gone to the beach & got oily lotion all over it. I will investigate to see if there''s an appraiser here in Rapid City that I can take it to when it comes back from being polished. Thanks again!
 

WinkHPD

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Date: 6/4/2005 10:14:55 PM
Author: Leanne
Thanks for all the posts! My diamond has an IGI cert that says it''s a natural diamond. There is nothing stated about any type of treatment or drilling. It is an I1, H-G but is (was) a beautiful stone. I bought it at Zales in Boulder, CO along with my husband for $8000. At the advice of my jeweler, the stone is currently being re polished. He then suggested that we will not know if it''s been chemically treated unless I send it into the GIA in California at the cost of $150-$200. My plan was to do this before I contacted Zales so that I will know for sure who is at fault. If my diamond has been treated it will come back from the polisher in it''s natural state & we will see if it is as eye clean as before it became hazey. I have many family members who have had complaints about the man that works for my jeweler. He has done some shoddy work on their jewelry & my sister actually lost a diamond out of her setting after he worked on her wedding ring. I wouldn''t be surprised if he burned my diamond so the only way of knowing for sure is to have it graded by the GIA. My jeweler said that''s the ony way to know for sure if it has been treated. Do you all agree?


If this were my stone I would have it looked at by GIA both before and after the stone is repolished. They should be able to tell you NOW what the damage is and whether or not the stone has been treated. If the stone was treated this is an issue between you and the jeweler that sold it to you, and you want to know that BEFORE you remove the evidence. If it was untreated and damaged by the jeweler, you also want to know that BEFORE you remove the evidence. If it was treated, you pay, ultimately the jeweler who sold you the stone untreated pays. If untreated, the jeweler currently doing the work both pays to repair the damage, but for the lopss of value for the weight lost. He also takes any risk that the stone may suffer when being repolished.

Just my opinions of course, but I would definitely NOT have the stone repaired prior to getting a second opinion from someone you trust, or the GIA if you do not have someone local to depend on.

Wink
 

WinkHPD

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Date: 6/4/2005 11:51:45 PM
Author: Mara
Leanne...before you spend $200 to get GIA to look at the stone.....and if no experts chime in here, call an appraiser and take it to them or at least get another jeweler''s opinion (pref a reputable one) to see what they say.


I don''t know if the ''only way'' to find out if it was treated is to have GIA look at it, that just seems kind of extreme...so if no one can answer this here, I''d investigate a bit more before just sending it off to the GIA because some random jeweler (whose guy may have screwed it up to begin with) says so.


Good luck!
You might want to talk to Denver Appraiser when he gets back from Vegas, but regardless of whether you use him or GIA, I strongly recommend getting the stone checked PRIOR to repolishing. You do nt want to remove any "evidence" from the stone prior to deciding against whom to holler "calf rope".

Wink
 

WinkHPD

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Oops, I am sorry, somehow I got the idea you were in the Denver area...
 

Leanne

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The diamond is in Bismark, ND being polished right now. I''ll get it back around Wednesday. So...it''s too late to stop that process. The reason you thought I was from the Denver area is because I bought the diamond at Zales in Boulder, CO! I''m from Cheyenne which is 80 miles from Denver so going there for an appraisal would be no problem. Thanks for your thoughts!
 

denverappraiser

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Leanne,


This shouldn’t be all that difficult to tell. You’ve had good advice above. I would add a third choice to the list. They didn’t clean the stone before giving it back to you. When jewelers are working on a ring they regularly will put a chemical coating on the metal to protect it during the heating process. This also gets on the stone. It’s usually cleaned off before it’s given back to the client but it does give the stone a whitish appearance if they leave it there. If this is the case, it can be removed quickly and with no damage whatever to your stone. All you industry people stop laughing, I''vee seen this happen before.


GIA doesn''t do damage reports. Use an independent appraiser.

If the stone was treated, you are entitled to a refund from the original dealer for non-disclosure if you wish. If you still love the stone, the manufacturers who treat them will repair the damage at no charge.
Damaged treated stones are pretty easy to spot and are usually pretty spotty and irregular. I’m with Fey, it’s a major screw-up to burn a 1.82 and doing it without destroying the gold prongs in the process would be nearly impossible.

Can you post a scan of the IGI report? They have quite a few varieties of reports and sometimes the treatement declaration is buried pretty deep if you don''t know where to look.

Lastly, contact your insurance agent and discuss the matter. This may be a covered loss and, if so, it will be helpful to start the process quickly before you get into remediation issues.

I’ll be happy to look at it either in the damaged condition or when they are done (or both) if you wish. As you point out, it’s a short and pleasant drive.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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The normal cause is either insufficient Boracic acid in Metho paste, or Borax in water mix coverage which forms a reducing glass around the outside of the diamond and stops Carbon combining with Oxygen and creating a ver very thin film of surface oxidation (burning).

It can also happen that the brush from another flux got put in the wrong bottle contaminating the anti oxidizing coating mix / solution.

It can easily be identified by any tradesman and requires repolishing which can result in weight loss of a point or less. At 1.82ct there is no issue - if the stone weighed 1.999ct - wellllll.............

Any decent jeweler will fix the problem at no cost to you.

S..t happens
 

Leanne

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Yesterday I went in to pick up my diamond from my jeweler. It was polished down from an 1.82 to a 1.76. It looks very beautiful but I was very disheartened to learn of the size loss. He said that the diamond WAS NOT BURNED & he really didn''t have an answer for why it turned white. He told me that when he took the diamond out of the setting that he was going to sell me, he noticed that the pavilion was clear & if it had been burned it also would be white. He offered to pay for the $200 GIA Report so that we can find out if the diamond has been enhanced. He told me that it could take up to a month before they would have the report done. I agreed & he will be sending it in. The IGI logo & number is no longer on the girdle of the diamond. I''m concerned that this could cause problems taking the diamond back to Zales should we find out they sold me a fracture filled diamond without disclosing it.
 

Nicrez

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I personally would have not reploished it until I had it analyzed with the evidence by GIA and dealt with Zales. They could have easily replaced the stone, or maybe better if you had a case of undisclosed enhancement.

Now that you have it repolished, I would get any sort of photographic evidence or even a notarized affidavit that the person who polished your stone to it''s current weight knew and acknowledges that it was stamped IGI on the girdle, such and such #, and was repolished to a 1.7+ ct. To me, Zales should have taken the burden to fix the stone to it''s exact original condition, IF they were in the wrong. If not, you would have waited a bit for your diamond, but would have had the same result.

Good luck and I hope things work out!!! Let us know, and I hope you find out what really made your stone turn white!
 

valeria101

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Date: 6/18/2005 9:50:00 PM
Author: Leanne

The IGI logo & number is no longer on the girdle of the diamond.
Four points doesn''t sound like much of a loss. Did the diameter change ?

The person who repolished the diamond should know perfectly well if this has been francture filled. They may not have GIA''s reputation to back their statement, but the information is there.

Do the ring & stone look OK ?
 

pyramid

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Date: 6/5/2005 2:12:54 PM
Author: Leanne
He also said that he can detect fracture filled stones but not clarity ehanced. I was hoping that the GG''s on this site would answer my post but I guess they don''t want to get involved. I do really appreciate all of your posts though! We girls have to stick together!!

By clarity enhanced is he referring to laser drilled, is it not true that they fill the tiny hole left by drilling with diamond like substance? Is it this substance which he is thinking has come out with heat and left the white over the diamond then?
 

Leanne

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My jeweler thinks that the diamond may have been fracture filled. We shall see......
 

denverappraiser

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Date: 6/19/2005 2:45:49 AM
Author: valeria101

The person who repolished the diamond should know perfectly well if this has been francture filled.
This is sounding increasingly fishy. The person who did the repolish job could say with 100% accuracy if the stone had been burned and if there had been a clarity enhancement that was damaged. They most certainly would have reported this to the jeweler who hired them since they are able to fix one possible problem and not the other. If it had been filled and the fill was damaged, repolishing would not solve the problem. To fix this, the damaged filling material must be removed and replaced. This is a very different process.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

pyramid

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I had wondered this too as if the stone had been enhanced there would be open feathers in the stone now!

Are laser drilled stones finished with some fracture filling material - if this was removed by heating would it be as noticeable?
 

denverappraiser

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The fractures are filled with a high R.I. glass that tends to make the inclusion less visible. Glass melts and/or boils at a comparatively low temperature, which is both the way that they get it in there and the source of the problem. Under the proper conditions, diamonds are extraordinarily heat resistant. When a jeweler heats it up with their torch, the glass boils out of the stone and leaves a truly ugly residue on the surface. This also leaves the now unfilled fracture left behind. Depending on how much of the fill was in the stone, the change can be quite dramatic. Both of the major manufacturers warranty against this and will repair the damage for free and with zero weight loss. I'm told that the entire process is done chemically and with pressure. There is no polishing involved. The laser people are very clever but, in general, they do not fill the hole although they are getting better and better at concealing it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

Maxine

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Date: 6/21/2005 1:09:46 PM
Author: denverappraiser
The fractures are filled with a high R.I. glass that tends to make the inclusion less visible. Glass melts and/or boils at a comparatively low temperature, which is both the way that they get it in there and the source of the problem. Under the proper conditions, diamonds are extraordinarily heat resistant. When a jeweler heats it up with their torch, the glass boils out of the stone and leaves a truly ugly residue on the surface. This also leaves the now unfilled fracture left behind. Depending on how much of the fill was in the stone, the change can be quite dramatic. Both of the major manufacturers warranty against this and will repair the damage for free and with zero weight loss. I''m told that the entire process is done chemically and with pressure. There is no polishing involved. The laser people are very clever but, in general, they do not fill the hole although they are getting better and better at concealing it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
Wouldn''t any material left in the fracture also turn whie, and become very obvious?????
 
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