Hearts on Fire - "perfect" diamonds??

[zeusandcoco]

My fiance recently proposed with a Hearts on Fire diamond engagement ring after the sales rep told him that the diamond was "perfect", "the best money could buy".
He paid well over $5,000 for this ring (with a .3 ct centre stone, .3 TCW for surrounding stones) but didn't receive the certificate until a week after he bought it, when they posted it to him.
Him being a boy didn't know he was even supposed to get any documentation, he was relying on the sales rep being honest and truthful. So as it turns out, this diamond is I-colour, SI1 clarity. We are now trying to get a refund from the jeweller and they are refusing, stating we have no right to a refund. My argument is that they told my fiance the diamond he bought was perfect, when in fact it was anything but.

I have spoken to the Jewellers Association of Australia who seems to think they don't have to refund us (bearing in mind the jeweller we purchased it from pays to be on their directory of 'approved jewellers'), however I don't see how the contract would ever be upheld in court when it was based on lies. In addition to this, the jeweller never stipulated their return policy before taking his money.

Can anyone shed some light on what industry standard for 'Perfect' is? I don't think it's an unfair assumption that perfect would be D colour, FL clarity, Super Ideal cut (or in this case "Perfect" as HOF likes to state their diamonds are).

 

[fige]

Did he pay with a credit card? If so, charge back is also an option if they're not cooperative.

If I were you, I'd write a letter including the sections of the Act you believe they are in breach of. Let them know you're not just another clueless consumer.

I think 'perfect' would be quite subjective, but the presence of inclusions seems a tangible argument.

 

[denverappraiser]

I'm sorry to hear you're unhappy.

In the US there are actually a fair number of laws about this sort of thing and 'pefect' is a problem word. Around here HoF uses the phrase 'the worlds most perfectly cut diamond'. Even that is a bit of puffery in the same way that BMW claims to make 'the ultimate driving machine' but they seem to skate by the FTC rules. FWIW, they DO do pretty nice work even if I don't much care for the slogan.

Did they put this claim of perfection in writing or perhaps on signage in the store? What exactly did they say?

Is there any sort of stated refund policy in the store, on the back of the receipt or anywhere else?

Do you know what the Aussie consumer protection rules are like for general consumer transactions?

That said, I'm not really understanding the heart of your issue. Is it the price or something else? Did he think he was getting a D/FL?

 

[Venti25]

It depends, IF the diamond was misrepresented or he was misled as to the quality you might have remedy under the CCA and you could contact the ACCC. But before that would you consider an exchange for something you're both happy with if the store agrees? It might be less problematic that way.

 

[sakari_8]

Hi

Apparently you are not happy with with the diamond purchased, Hearts on fire diamonds has nothing to do with the color and clarity,
it has something to do with the cut, it is possible to have the Diamond with I color and still be Hearts on fire, as Cut
of the stone is great and qualify for hearts on fire, Usually people look for higher color and higher clarity to get maximum
fire from the stone, but thats not true, Cut plays the vital role for light performance, if the Facets are in good arrangement
in the stone and the proportions are perfect it will give awesome light reflections, Since you have the documentation I think it will
be Hearts on Fire Diamond.

Besides, every store have different policies like, return policy, upgrade policy, warranty on Jewelry etc and some do not give
policies as such, their are no standards for that, I think if you do not like the Diamond, you could contact them and explain to
them that you do not like the product and can get it exchanged with something you like.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That is a killer, because they vastly overcharged for that ring. If there is any way you can return it, please come back here and we can help you get an equally well cut diamond for a lot less money, or a larger one for the same amount as he spent. I think it is awful that the jeweler won't take a return, assuming it was soon after the purchase!

Hearts on Fire are some of the best cut diamonds in the world, but they are also some of the most overpriced.

 

[zeusandcoco]

Did he pay with a credit card? If so, charge back is also an option if they're not cooperative.

If I were you, I'd write a letter including the sections of the Act you believe they are in breach of. Let them know you're not just another clueless consumer.

I think 'perfect' would be quite subjective, but the presence of inclusions seems a tangible argument.

Unfortunately he paid with cash (god knows why, I think he liked the idea of having a big wad of cash in his wallet for half an hour).
I have definitely made it known I know a thing or two about diamonds as well as our legal rights, which is probably why the owner of the store called me on my mobile to abuse me for daring to spend an hour of his sales reps time while we were trying to pick out another ring. God forbid we actually try to come to a compromise with them and try to pick something else before asking for a refund!

I completely understand that some would consider a Z colour diamond to be perfect (for some it is, which is fine by me), but for a diamond to be SI1 in clarity and a sales person to continually state it is perfect to someone who knows no better is just downright dishonest.

I'm sorry to hear you're unhappy.

In the US there are actually a fair number of laws about this sort of thing and 'pefect' is a problem word. Around here HoF uses the phrase 'the worlds most perfectly cut diamond'. Even that is a bit of puffery in the same way that BMW claims to make 'the ultimate driving machine' but they seem to skate by the FTC rules. FWIW, they DO do pretty nice work even if I don't much care for the slogan.

Did they put this claim of perfection in writing or perhaps on signage in the store? What exactly did they say?

Is there any sort of stated refund policy in the store, on the back of the receipt or anywhere else?

Do you know what the Aussie consumer protection rules are like for general consumer transactions?

That said, I'm not really understanding the heart of your issue. Is it the price or something else? Did he think he was getting a D/FL?

You're totally right, HOF can claim whatever they like about the cut of their diamonds, for all I know they are the most perfectly cut diamond. That claim is subjective to personal taste at the end of the day, which can't be argued as it's not science. Clarity, however, is.

They stated in an email to me "here at (jeweller) our diamonds are "superlative" in every characteristic possible. That's ten times the industry standard!"

Ten times the industry standard?? Really?? What is the industry standard then?

If you also visit this link, it clearly states "Delicate diamond bands diverge to hold a perfect Hearts On Fire diamond."
http://www.heartsonfire.com.au/shop-jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/felicitysplitshankdiamondengagementring.aspx

Not perfectly cut. Perfect. There is a little 'More Info +' link hidden amongst the rest of the information for people who do actually know what it all means. For everyone else the 'More Info' window may as well be written in another language. And for my fiance, he really believed he was buying me a perfect diamond because that was what he was repeatedly told.

There was absolutely no stated refund policy in store. I think it may possibly have said something about it on the original receipt (which the jeweller now has as they also have the ring- we have a credit note), however the bigger issue is that they posted the Diamond Certificate a week after the purchase, and since the average Joe doesn't even know what diamond specs are, how would he know to ask for a Diamond Certificate with the purchase, let alone read it or get someone else to read it to make sure the specs measure up to the claims of perfection?

Consumer law in Australia actually states that if an item doesn't match the description (ie. you bought what you were told was a leather wallet (perfect diamond), only to later find out it is vinyl (far-from-perfect diamond), then you are entitled to a refund. The law also states that if you relied on the store's advice when choosing the item and the item is found not to be what you were sold, you are also entitled to a refund.
http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/fact_sheets/_downloads/consumer_shopping_20120111.PDF

It's a pretty open and shut case as I see it, but the jeweller seems to want to make my fiance work to get his own money back. And that makes me furious. And ringless

It depends, IF the diamond was misrepresented or he was misled as to the quality you might have remedy under the CCA and you could contact the ACCC. But before that would you consider an exchange for something you're both happy with if the store agrees? It might be less problematic that way.

We definitely tried a few different angles for an exchange, after there was nothing we liked in store we actually found a ring online we asked them to make for us. Through Ritani it would cost $6,500 with a diamond over twice the size with better colour and clarity, admittedly not as good a cut though. Through our jeweller with a non-HOF diamond, it would cost us over $10,600. When we saw that price we knew they had no intention of looking after us.

Maybe I'm being materialistic here but I'm just not all that comfortable walking around with a ring on my hand for the rest of my life from a jeweller who makes a habit of deceiving their paying customers out of thousands of dollars.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If you've tried it the nice way, can you maybe tell him that you will not be satisfied without a refund, and if he refuses, you will be forced to report your experience with his store on every review site and jewelry forum on the internet?

 

[motownmama]

I wish you the best of luck in resolving their situation. Online with HOF this ring is listed from $4500-$4900 depending on 18K vs. Platinum (US dollars). "Perfect'" is just their maketing slogan.

 

[zeusandcoco]

If you've tried it the nice way, can you maybe tell him that you will not be satisfied without a refund, and if he refuses, you will be forced to report your experience with his store on every review site and jewelry forum on the internet?

Oh don't you worry, even once we get the refund I'll still be letting everyone who will listen know how dodgy this soon-to-be-mentioned jeweller is! A current affairs show wants to interview us about it so that should get the message across loud and clear

Just wanted to make sure I had a few unbiased opinions first. Thanks everyone

 

[Smith1942]

Really sorry you're going through an e-ring nightmare.

I have some experience with HoF, since my husband bought my e-ring from them seven years ago. I wasn't involved at all and was unaware of all the internet jewellers, so he definitely overpaid. I think HoF comes out more expensive than Tiffany! Anyway, mine is also an I colour, Si1 clarity, 0.70. He paid 4k, and today those sell for 8k. Crazy.

However, the cut is absolutely outstanding and because of that, the diamond faces up much whiter than an I and throws out so much light that it also looks bigger than it is. If there wasn't this issue of perfection etc, and being disappointed with the colour and clarity specs, would you love the ring? Another way to put it, what if you had never seen that certificate? How would you feel about the ring? In the long term, as you wear the ring and the years pass, it's the cut that counts because you never stop enjoying that sparkle.

Have you viewed many other diamonds to compare to your HoF? Just that you could return the HoF and get a diamond with higher colour and clarity but not such a precision cut, and then as the years pass it might seem not sparkly enough. Also, if you ever wanted to sell/upgrade, HoF will always carry a premium.

Just my two cents!

Of course, if you COULD get your money back, one of the vendors on here would get you a much bigger stone and the cut specs would still be excellent. But if you can't, rest assured that HoF is quite special, precision cut-wise, speaking as a woman who's worn one for seven years. I, too, would have preferred a higher colour (although I just couldn't care less about clarity as long as no visible black marks). My ring throws out warm flashes of coloured rainbow light though, and as I said, the cut quality hides the colour.

I hear you on the disappointment though, and I hope you get your money back.

 

[Smith1942]

One more thought - is your fiance sure the jeweler said "perfect diamond" not "perfectly cut diamond"? It could be one of those hazy recall things, where each person is definite that something different was said. It's surprising that a jeweler would say that something was a perfect diamond when anyone in the industry knows that that means FL/D/super-ideal cut. Which would cost a FORTUNE. It's more likely that the sales rep was banging on and on about the CUT being perfect, and this is remembered as being sold like a perfect diamond.

Real-life example of how this can happen: I am British and I met my American husband in London. We got married and there was a lot of immigration paperwork with the green card for me to move to the States. Took ages. My husband was banging on and on - joking, I assure you - about how it would have been much quicker to go to Mexico and slip across the border! Close friends of his remembered this as me being Mexican. Thery were absolutely convinced that their friend (my husband) had a Mexican wife, simply because my husband kept mentioning Mexico and me in the same sentence. This is despite the fact that my husband kept travelling to the UK to see me, and the wedding was held in the UK. When they met me, they were very surprised to learn that I was not Mexican but British.

So, communication can get very mixed-up, and possibly when the sales rep was banging on about perfection, that might have been in the "cut" portion of the sales talk.


But if not, if the rep said that all aspects of the diamond were perfect, then you should get your money back.

 

[hawk25]

Based on the past 2 weeks looking in B&M stores, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the jeweller said H&A was a perfect diamond. Why? Because I heard the exact same thing a handful of times, both to me and to other customers.

I recall one sales rep at European Jewellers speaking to a customer beside me, who told the rep that he didn't know much about diamonds. He pulled out several rings and proceeded with showing them until he said "and this is a H&A diamond, which is just pure perfection. You can not get any better than this". There was no context of speaking about just the cut

 

[Smith1942]

Hawk, how interesting! See, this is why I'm not in sales. I'm just too honest! I cannot imagine telling a customer that a diamond is a perfect diamond unless it was FL/D/super-ideal. If I were claiming perfection about any aspect, I would make sure the customer knew it was just about that particular aspect. I'd say something like, "While the clarity may be on the low side, the actual cut is as close to perfect as you'll find anywhere."

It boggles the mind to think that there are reps at the kind of stores which sell HoF claiming perfect diamonds in all aspects. I see why the OP is so upset.

 

[fige]

ACA will sort them out

I also wanted to say congrats on your engagement, and I hope that this saga isn't distracting you from enjoying what should be a really happy time!

 

[zeusandcoco]

One more thought - is your fiance sure the jeweler said "perfect diamond" not "perfectly cut diamond"? It could be one of those hazy recall things, where each person is definite that something different was said. It's surprising that a jeweler would say that something was a perfect diamond when anyone in the industry knows that that means FL/D/super-ideal cut. Which would cost a FORTUNE. It's more likely that the sales rep was banging on and on about the CUT being perfect, and this is remembered as being sold like a perfect diamond.

Absolutely positive the rep said to him it was a perfect diamond (not just perfectly cut). The reason I know this is (even though I wasn't there) the HOF web listing for the same ring actually states "Delicate diamond bands diverge to hold a perfect Hearts On Fire diamond". On top of the attitude that they can throw the word 'perfect' around with no fear of consequences, the rep said in an email to me that, and I quote, their diamonds are superlative in every characteristic possible. Which is just a downright lie. They may be superlative in cut, but superlative is not a SI1, I colour.

I actually have never seen the Diamond Certificate, so the stats aren't really what bothers me at the end of the day. It's more the principle of the fact that I have to wear a ring purchased based on lies because my fiance thought he was buying me perfection because that's what he wanted me to have. I'm very superstitious about gems and the energy they carry and neither my fiance or I feel comfortable #1 wearing a ring where the purchase was based on lies, and #2 filling the pockets of a greedy jeweller who has no shame in lying to make a sale. What a horrible memory to have related to a ring I'll be wearing until the day I die. Sparkle it may, I think the sparkle will always be dulled in my mind because I know what they did to convince my fiance to buy it in the first place. It's like going to buy a Rolls Royce, and you drive out of the showroom having paid for a Rolls Royce, in a Rolls Royce body, with a Ford engine and interior.
Plus, it is not worth even close to $5,400. Some say HOF have a 20-25% markup, this ring is close to a 100% markup. Other loose diamonds of the same carat, colour, clarity and super ideal cut go for around $700. Add maybe $1,500 for the setting and $1,000 for the brand name and you still have only a $3,200 ring, with a $5,400 price tag.

Based on the past 2 weeks looking in B&M stores, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the jeweller said H&A was a perfect diamond. Why? Because I heard the exact same thing a handful of times, both to me and to other customers.

I recall one sales rep at European Jewellers speaking to a customer beside me, who told the rep that he didn't know much about diamonds. He pulled out several rings and proceeded with showing them until he said "and this is a H&A diamond, which is just pure perfection. You can not get any better than this". There was no context of speaking about just the cut

I seriously am not surprised. Some jewellers clearly have no shame.

ACA will sort them out

I also wanted to say congrats on your engagement, and I hope that this saga isn't distracting you from enjoying what should be a really happy time!

Thanks so much, at the end of the day I have someone who loves me unconditionally and, ring or no ring, I've still got him, which is the biggest gift of all.