Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engraving

[Mei]

Hello,

I recently bought a loose diamond from downtown Toronto for my engagement ring. I'm getting a custom setting from the jeweler as well. I started to doubt the quality of the diamond I had purchased after reading some things about gemscan and realizing that the jeweler might have been trying to push Gemscan on me. I kept asking to see a GIA in my specifications and my price range but he never did show me them. I'm the type to fall into retail traps so I didn't think much of it and bought the loose diamond (I know, stupid).

So because of my doubt, I brought the diamond to Harold Weinstein to get it appraised. Their grading of the stone matched the one of Gemscan except for the clarity. Gemscan said it was an si2 but HW graded it an i1. HW had also informed me that they found a laser engraving from GIA with the number on the girdle. I checked up the report of the stone on the GIA website and it was in fact graded the same as HW.

How could it be that my Gemscan diamond is actually a GIA? Since they sold me the diamond as an si2 instead of an i1, is it possible for me to go back to them for a price adjustment or have something done about this? Since it is GIA laser engraved, it should be sold as per the GIA graded specifications? Also, would there be any way to get the physical GIA certificate?

Many thanks in advance. I have never bought a diamond before this and know very little.

Cheers

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

No lab, not even GIA, will agree that their findings will be the same as some other lab. GIA saw it first and put the inscription on it. It was then sent to Gemscan who saw things differently. That’s why it was sold using the Gemscan papers. Will they give you a kickback? I sort of doubt it but it doesn’t hurt to ask. This a recent deal, right? If so, you may be able to return it and get another one, either from them or from someone else, and the threat of that may help grease the deal.

GIA won’t issue duplicate reports any more but you can send it back to them for a new inspection and a new report if you like. If the inspection was more recent than 2000 or so you can get most of the data free on their database and if its more recent than 2010, you can get all of it. If you're going to send it in, now is a good time. They only grade unmounted stones so you can save some grief and costs to do it before it's set.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

No lab, not even GIA, will agree that their findings will be the same as some other lab. GIA saw it first and put the inscription on it. It was then sent to Gemscan who saw things differently. That’s why it was sold using the Gemscan papers. Will they give you a kickback? I sort of doubt it but it doesn’t hurt to ask. This a recent deal, right? If so, you may be able to return it and get another one, either from them or from someone else, and the threat of that may help grease the deal.

GIA won’t issue duplicate reports any more but you can send it back to them for a new inspection and a new report if you like. If the inspection was more recent than 2000 or so you can get most of the data free on their database and if its more recent than 2010, you can get all of it. If you're going to send it in, now is a good time. They only grade unmounted stones so you can save some grief and costs to do it before it's set.

Neil,
I am not familiar with gemscan but if it is a laboratory grading report, would they not have a duty to note the laser incription? It seems like that piece of information was withheld from the customer. And apparently for a reason.
I would think the OP would have some leverage given the nature of the discrepancy. It would at least be an approach to take to see what recourse could be achieved. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Mei,
You can type the GIA number of the diamond into the GIA Report Check tool and see all the details of the diamond and print the information in case you want to share that with the seller.
http://www.gia.edu/report-check-landing

I just re-read your post and you apparently have already done this.

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Hello,

I recently bought a loose diamond from downtown Toronto for my engagement ring. I'm getting a custom setting from the jeweler as well. I started to doubt the quality of the diamond I had purchased after reading some things about gemscan and realizing that the jeweler might have been trying to push Gemscan on me. I kept asking to see a GIA in my specifications and my price range but he never did show me them. I'm the type to fall into retail traps so I didn't think much of it and bought the loose diamond (I know, stupid).

So because of my doubt, I brought the diamond to Harold Weinstein to get it appraised. Their grading of the stone matched the one of Gemscan except for the clarity. Gemscan said it was an si2 but HW graded it an i1. HW had also informed me that they found a laser engraving from GIA with the number on the girdle. I checked up the report of the stone on the GIA website and it was in fact graded the same as HW.

How could it be that my Gemscan diamond is actually a GIA? Since they sold me the diamond as an si2 instead of an i1, is it possible for me to go back to them for a price adjustment or have something done about this? Since it is GIA laser engraved, it should be sold as per the GIA graded specifications? Also, would there be any way to get the physical GIA certificate?

Many thanks in advance. I have never bought a diamond before this and know very little.

Cheers

Re: Since they sold me the diamond as an si2 instead of an i1, is it possible for me to go back to them for a price adjustment or have something done about this?

I would think that you would want to. There is a large difference in price and it would seem to me that the second lab would at least note the inscription on the girdle in their report. As a consumer, this would make me cranky. As a retailer, once I inspected the diamond and found the GIA report number I would be sending the diamond back to my supplier and asking for a refund. This is NOT a shining moment for the secondary lab's work.

Wink

 

[Mei]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

No lab, not even GIA, will agree that their findings will be the same as some other lab. GIA saw it first and put the inscription on it. It was then sent to Gemscan who saw things differently. That’s why it was sold using the Gemscan papers. Will they give you a kickback? I sort of doubt it but it doesn’t hurt to ask. This a recent deal, right? If so, you may be able to return it and get another one, either from them or from someone else, and the threat of that may help grease the deal.

GIA won’t issue duplicate reports any more but you can send it back to them for a new inspection and a new report if you like. If the inspection was more recent than 2000 or so you can get most of the data free on their database and if its more recent than 2010, you can get all of it. If you're going to send it in, now is a good time. They only grade unmounted stones so you can save some grief and costs to do it before it's set.

I understand that it's probably quite difficult to get a price adjustment seeing that they will say that grading may vary from lab to lab. It's hard to say which party is most correct. Having said that though, I don't feel like the sale was completely fair because if the stone was graded with GIA first (the report said August 2014, which is just a year ago), how would they not be able to know that about it and send it off to gemscan for another test? Would that mean I was purposely deceived and they decided to sell the diamond with the higher grading? Something definitely doesn't feel right. I bought the diamond Saturday so it has been 5 days. I'm thinking of going back to them to see what can be done. I'm in a bit of a pickle because I've already paid the full price for my custom setting and the diamond. I'm waiting for them to send me a render of the ring design so we could go forward with completing the ring. No where on the receipt, website or verbally did they say it was final sale so I hope something can be done. Whether it be trade for another diamond, refund or giving me a credit for my wedding band.

Thank you for your input I really appreciate it.

Neil,
I am not familiar with gemscan but if it is a laboratory grading report, would they not have a duty to note the laser incription? It seems like that piece of information was withheld from the customer. And apparently for a reason.
I would think the OP would have some leverage given the nature of the discrepancy. It would at least be an approach to take to see what recourse could be achieved. Just thinking out loud here.

Indeed it seems like the information was withheld. Also I mentioned that the seller seemed to be pushing gemscan on me. I clearly remember him saying that gemscan is local (which is true) and that the people working there are all GIA graduates (which I'm not so sure about) but that made it seem like he was putting gemscan on par with GIA so that I would not mind buying a gemscan. I called them yesterday asking why I didn't receive a lab certificate when I purchased the diamond and also asked what would happen if I found out that the diamond quality isn't what it was said to be. They said that, that would never happen and they stand behind their product. Kind of dodging my question there so I don't know what to think.

I like to do my research so I did some digging. In Ontario, the consumer protection act says that it is illegal for a business or individual to give you false information about themselves or the product or service they offer. Since I was misinformed about the diamond I bought (was it a gemscan or is it GIA), wouldn't I have some legal rights in this case? Is this a resonable point to bring up if the seller won't budge?

Much thanks

Re: Since they sold me the diamond as an si2 instead of an i1, is it possible for me to go back to them for a price adjustment or have something done about this?

I would think that you would want to. There is a large difference in price and it would seem to me that the second lab would at least note the inscription on the girdle in their report. As a consumer, this would make me cranky. As a retailer, once I inspected the diamond and found the GIA report number I would be sending the diamond back to my supplier and asking for a refund. This is NOT a shining moment for the secondary lab's work.

Wink

Yes I'm quite cranky about this
Directly quoted from their website, "Customer satisfication is our first priority". I hope they stand by their statement and will do something for me.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

No lab, not even GIA, will agree that their findings will be the same as some other lab. GIA saw it first and put the inscription on it. It was then sent to Gemscan who saw things differently. That’s why it was sold using the Gemscan papers. Will they give you a kickback? I sort of doubt it but it doesn’t hurt to ask. This a recent deal, right? If so, you may be able to return it and get another one, either from them or from someone else, and the threat of that may help grease the deal.

GIA won’t issue duplicate reports any more but you can send it back to them for a new inspection and a new report if you like. If the inspection was more recent than 2000 or so you can get most of the data free on their database and if its more recent than 2010, you can get all of it. If you're going to send it in, now is a good time. They only grade unmounted stones so you can save some grief and costs to do it before it's set.

I understand that it's probably quite difficult to get a price adjustment seeing that they will say that grading may vary from lab to lab. It's hard to say which party is most correct. Having said that though, I don't feel like the sale was completely fair because if the stone was graded with GIA first (the report said August 2014, which is just a year ago), how would they not be able to know that about it and send it off to gemscan for another test? Would that mean I was purposely deceived and they decided to sell the diamond with the higher grading? Something definitely doesn't feel right. I bought the diamond Saturday so it has been 5 days. I'm thinking of going back to them to see what can be done. I'm in a bit of a pickle because I've already paid the full price for my custom setting and the diamond. I'm waiting for them to send me a render of the ring design so we could go forward with completing the ring. No where on the receipt, website or verbally did they say it was final sale so I hope something can be done. Whether it be trade for another diamond, refund or giving me a credit for my wedding band.

Thank you for your input I really appreciate it.

Neil,
I am not familiar with gemscan but if it is a laboratory grading report, would they not have a duty to note the laser incription? It seems like that piece of information was withheld from the customer. And apparently for a reason.
I would think the OP would have some leverage given the nature of the discrepancy. It would at least be an approach to take to see what recourse could be achieved. Just thinking out loud here.

Indeed it seems like the information was withheld. Also I mentioned that the seller seemed to be pushing gemscan on me. I clearly remember him saying that gemscan is local (which is true) and that the people working there are all GIA graduates (which I'm not so sure about) but that made it seem like he was putting gemscan on par with GIA so that I would not mind buying a gemscan. I called them yesterday asking why I didn't receive a lab certificate when I purchased the diamond and also asked what would happen if I found out that the diamond quality isn't what it was said to be. They said that, that would never happen and they stand behind their product. Kind of dodging my question there so I don't know what to think.

I like to do my research so I did some digging. In Ontario, the consumer protection act says that it is illegal for a business or individual to give you false information about themselves or the product or service they offer. Since I was misinformed about the diamond I bought (was it a gemscan or is it GIA), wouldn't I have some legal rights in this case? Is this a resonable point to bring up if the seller won't budge?

Much thanks

It sounds to me like you are soured on the stone. And who could blame you?

Regarding this statement: "I called them yesterday asking why I didn't receive a lab certificate when I purchased the diamond and also asked what would happen if I found out that the diamond quality isn't what it was said to be. They said that, that would never happen and they stand behind their product. Kind of dodging my question there so I don't know what to think."

What they said would never happen in fact did happen, and the proof is right there inscribed on the stone! And if they stand behind their product, that means they will take it back.

I think you have the right to expect a resolution that YOU think is fair. Depending on the written terms of the transaction and/or local laws you may or may not have strong legal grounds. But certainly ethical ones.

 

[tmorrow]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

No lab, not even GIA, will agree that their findings will be the same as some other lab. GIA saw it first and put the inscription on it. It was then sent to Gemscan who saw things differently. That’s why it was sold using the Gemscan papers. Will they give you a kickback? I sort of doubt it but it doesn’t hurt to ask. This a recent deal, right? If so, you may be able to return it and get another one, either from them or from someone else, and the threat of that may help grease the deal.

I like to do my research so I did some digging. In Ontario, the consumer protection act says that it is illegal for a business or individual to give you false information about themselves or the product or service they offer. Since I was misinformed about the diamond I bought (was it a gemscan or is it GIA), wouldn't I have some legal rights in this case? Is this a resonable point to bring up if the seller won't budge?

Much thanks

I used to live in Toronto I know all about those misleading Gemscan reports.

Do you have a refund policy?
Have you seen the actual Gemscan report does it list the engraving?
How did you pay?

Can you contact Gemscan and ask them if they noted the Engraving Number anywhere or if it is their policy to annotate inscriptions found on the gridle on their grading reports.

What I would do is draft an article with the facts. The price you paid, the store you bought it from, the person you bought it from the GIA report spec and the Gemscan specs and print out both.

I would also look up the value online for your diamond with SI2 or I1 clarity and determine the difference and put that in your article. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples though and if you link to the report many can help you do just that.

Then take the article and photocopies of the proof and bring in back to seller and tell them you are submitting this to the Star unless they either refund you the difference in value or accept a refund.

The headline could be something like "Buyer Beware Soft Grading of Diamonds by Gemscan Laboratory allows Downtown Toronto Diamond Dealer to Mislead and Overcharge Customers"

Tell them unless they give you a refund on the spot you are going to file a complaint with Consumer Protection and submit the article.
Even if they do cooperate I'd still submit the article but if they do consider removing their name from the article.

 

[Mei]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

I used to live in Toronto I know all about those misleading Gemscan reports.

Do you have a refund policy?
Have you seen the actual Gemscan report does it list the engraving?
How did you pay?

Can you contact Gemscan and ask them if they noted the Engraving Number anywhere or if it is their policy to annotate inscriptions found on the gridle on their grading reports.

What I would do is draft an article with the facts. The price you paid, the store you bought it from, the person you bought it from the GIA report spec and the Gemscan specs and print out both.

I would also look up the value online for your diamond with SI2 or I1 clarity and determine the difference and put that in your article. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples though and if you link to the report many can help you do just that.

Then take the article and photocopies of the proof and bring in back to seller and tell them you are submitting this to the Star unless they either refund you the difference in value or accept a refund.

The headline could be something like "Buyer Beware Soft Grading of Diamonds by Gemscan Laboratory allows Downtown Toronto Diamond Dealer to Mislead and Overcharge Customers"

Tell them unless they give you a refund on the spot you are going to file a complaint with Consumer Protection and submit the article.
Even if they do cooperate I'd still submit the article but if they do consider removing their name from the article.

Refund policy, I was dumb enough not to have asked a question about that. I must have been drowsy from all the diamonds sparkling in front of me. Stupid me I did check their website and no customer exchange/refund policy was stated, the receipt we got also did not have such thing nor did it mention final sale. The seller did not cover anything about refund policies at all. We paid by credit card. It is a Gemscan pre certified diamond. All we got was the tissue paper/sticker grading on it from Gemscan. I suppose that is the certification? There is not mention of laser inscription on our report/sticker. I went on the the Gemscan site and checked what the pre-certified grading report should look like and the sample had laser inscription noted so I think they are supposed to mention it? I will call Gemscan tomorrow to see what they say about that. Not sure if they are supposed to note a GIA inscription since it is not their own? My sticker/report looks like this but without the red laser inscription part. http://www.gslaboratories.com/images/img_det_grading-precert.png

I am unable to look up the value of an si2 verses an i1 diamond because I don't have the Rapaport Diamond Report which they used to price my diamond. I tried looking it up on Google but the ones online are not the most recent ones and the numbers are probably different.

I'm going to gather all the information/appraisal/reports/research I have and bring it to the seller to see what he says. I don't want to be the bad guy and make things difficult for him, but I can't stand injustice so I will do what I have to in order to make things right.

 

[tmorrow]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

I used to live in Toronto I know all about those misleading Gemscan reports.

Do you have a refund policy?
Have you seen the actual Gemscan report does it list the engraving?
How did you pay?

Can you contact Gemscan and ask them if they noted the Engraving Number anywhere or if it is their policy to annotate inscriptions found on the gridle on their grading reports.

What I would do is draft an article with the facts. The price you paid, the store you bought it from, the person you bought it from the GIA report spec and the Gemscan specs and print out both.

I would also look up the value online for your diamond with SI2 or I1 clarity and determine the difference and put that in your article. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples though and if you link to the report many can help you do just that.

Then take the article and photocopies of the proof and bring in back to seller and tell them you are submitting this to the Star unless they either refund you the difference in value or accept a refund.

The headline could be something like "Buyer Beware Soft Grading of Diamonds by Gemscan Laboratory allows Downtown Toronto Diamond Dealer to Mislead and Overcharge Customers"

Tell them unless they give you a refund on the spot you are going to file a complaint with Consumer Protection and submit the article.
Even if they do cooperate I'd still submit the article but if they do consider removing their name from the article.

Refund policy, I was dumb enough not to have asked a question about that. I must have been drowsy from all the diamonds sparkling in front of me. Stupid me I did check their website and no customer exchange/refund policy was stated, the receipt we got also did not have such thing nor did it mention final sale. The seller did not cover anything about refund policies at all. We paid by credit card. It is a Gemscan pre certified diamond. All we got was the tissue paper/sticker grading on it from Gemscan. I suppose that is the certification? There is not mention of laser inscription on our report/sticker. I went on the the Gemscan site and checked what the pre-certified grading report should look like and the sample had laser inscription noted so I think they are supposed to mention it? I will call Gemscan tomorrow to see what they say about that. Not sure if they are supposed to note a GIA inscription since it is not their own? My sticker/report looks like this but without the red laser inscription part. http://www.gslaboratories.com/images/img_det_grading-precert.png

I am unable to look up the value of an si2 verses an i1 diamond because I don't have the Rapaport Diamond Report which they used to price my diamond. I tried looking it up on Google but the ones online are not the most recent ones and the numbers are probably different.

I'm going to gather all the information/appraisal/reports/research I have and bring it to the seller to see what he says. I don't want to be the bad guy and make things difficult for him, but I can't stand injustice so I will do what I have to in order to make things right.

Carat Weight and GIA report number is about all I would need to get comps for you.
Rap is useless you need actual online comps.
Most labs print whatever is inscribed on the girdle in the notes, it doesn't matter to them who put it there.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

I'm not sure how to direct you & you've gotten some good advice from the guys here. tmorrow brings up some great points as well.

I have previously used GemscaM in the past. I received a full report not a little card, unless they have changed that. If that is all the report is, pretty sad. I brought in an old stone for a recert. It took me a month to get my appointment. The grader comes out & tells me what he's going to put on the report & asked if that was ok with me & if not, what did he want me to put on there. Seriously...not kidding...this happened. I said to just grade it like they thought it should be. This was all pre-PS days & I didn't know why he would come & ask me that. Now I know. While I was sitting in the waiting room, in waltzes a salesman from Diamonds for Less on Shuter with his 2 customers in tow. He says to them "see, I stand by my policy that I will get a graded report while you wait & will verify what I'm telling you the stone is or better". Ya...not kidding about that either. I have NEVER forgotten my day at Gemscam & ever since then, have not said 1 good word about them. I wait a month to get my appt, & this shmo walks in with his clients. Obviously, there was a conflict of interest.

SO...my experience wont change what is happening with you but others reading this will think twice about a Gemscam report. Harold Weinstein was the guy I went to for an appraisal for my e-ring. He has a stellar reputation in Toronto. I hope the guy is reasonable. Just hammer him to get the full report. Here is a thread you might want to take a look at. A few suggestions of local shops for your rings. I don't buy anything in Toronto so I can't give you any suggestions. However, there is someone up in Barrie, Bill Le Bouf Jewellers. They have a website. Good luck..

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-have-any-suggestions-for-custom-jewellers-in-gta-ont.211456/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-have-any-suggestions-for-custom-jewellers-in-gta-ont.211456/[/URL]

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Mei,
Since you paid by credit card you may have recourse there, should the vendor choose not to cooperate. I would consider returning the diamond and then notifying the credit card company that you did not get what you ordered and ask them to take the charge off your account. If you have proof that such is the case they will do that, then charge back to the merchant. At that point there is an official dispute, but in the meantime the charge is off your account. The merchant will have to prove that he delivered what he represented. I think the facts are on your side.
Should the vendor refuse to take the stone back, you could consider mailing it back to them, registered and insured. Or talk to your credit card company in advance and see what your rights are and what procedures they recommend.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

At least in the US, you would have grounds for a refund based on the FTC guidelines about selling products fairly. I haven't a clue about Canadian rules. They knew, or at least should have known, that it was a GIA graded stone and they knew that you were interested in that as part of your purchase decision. That makes this a pretty clear misrepresentation. In any case, the first step of collecting a refund is to ask for it and it's not clear to me if you've asked or even want that. Not even under the FTC are they obligated to give you a discount but let you keep the stuff. They're welcome to make that offer to keep you from skunking the deal but it's not part of the guidelines.

Bryan. Gemscan is a Canadian lab with a US subsidiary. They're quite large. The US company is called GS Laboratories and I think they have a contract with Zales. They're a major player in Canada. Yes, I would expect the inscription to be mentioned on their report under the 'comments' section.

 

[LaBellaVita]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

If they don't give you your money back.. or at the very least refund you the difference - I would be filing a claim with the consumer protection act. They are VERY helpful. This below is from their website:

Misrepresentation

It’s illegal for the business or individual to give you false information about themselves or the product or service they offer. Some examples of misrepresentation include:
• claiming that they have licences, accreditation or certification when they don’t
• showing fake safety certification or accreditation for an item

• stating that the product is a certain grade, style, model, or quality when it isn’t

• promising to deliver a service or product when they know or should know that it’s not possible
• recommending unnecessary repairs or replacements to items

If you have a contract with a business or individual that has misrepresented their product or service, you can withdraw from the contract within 1 year.

 

[kmarla]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

It looks like the store and Gemscan dropped the ball here. I'm very sorry you're having such distress over such an important and emotional purchase I really hope you're able to get this issue resolved to your satisfaction and that the store steps up for you!

Just for curiosity, SI2 and I1 are next to each other on the clarity scale. It's my understanding that it's not uncommon for appraisal's to
sometimes differ by one level between different reputable labs, or between reputable labs (GIA/AGS) and independent appraisers. EGL is a whole different story! Could this be the case here?

 

[Mei]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Thanks for all the support and advice everyone.

I called Gemscan about whether they should have noted any laser inscription they find on their stone. They said yes. So I don't know what happened to the diamond I got and why the GIA number was not on the report.

I took the stone back to the seller and told him what I found out. He insisted that he was never out to deceive and would not have given me the stone if he knew this was the case. He also said that if he was out to purposely get me that he could have got the laser inscription removed with a laser and then sold it to me. He agreed to take the stone back (I still have it with me right now just for security) and find me a GIA certified stone of the same or slightly better grade (until I am satisfied), with laser inscription and comes with the original GIA certification. He's going to also pay for the stone to be appraised by Harold Weistein. If in the end I still am unsatisfied with the product, he will issue me a refund. I asked to get that in writing and he signed it.

The pitch and terms to get me to stay were pretty good. I still cannot say I will be 100% sure about a purchase here though. Perhaps someone can give me their opinion on if I should stay or go? I'm skeptical about some things he said today. He said I would be getting an upgrade since I now get a GIA stone, but when he was selling me the stone in the first place he made it sound like Gemscan is on par with GIA. It sounds like he's contradicting himself now. Also to try and figure out how he handles his business, I asked what would happen to this GIA/Gemscan stone I bought since there is not certificate to accompany it? He said that you can enter the number and print out a certificate. I pointed out that printing it from online is not the same as the original since there are security features. Then he answered that they can call GIA and ask them to send another one because it was lost. I had already checked the GIA website about getting one reissued and I had gotten a response from a few other members here that GIA does not do that anymore. When I mentioned that, he said he would figure something out.

I went in there looking for a refund because I received something that was different than what I was sold and I felt like our trust is broken, but then he started saying he's been getting the diamonds from this person for a long time and this is the first time it happened. He never checks the diamonds when they come in and he had no idea. Then he continues to give me the alternate offers and shows me the GIA certifcates I will be getting and all the added bonus/upgrades. I agreed to his plea for a second chance and left today, but I made sure to get in writing for my refund if I ultimately want it in the end.

Before my meeting, I had decided to contact another place for a diamond and custom engagement ring, to see what I could get there in the event that my seller tries to shower me with upgrades to get me to stay. Now I'm comparing the price for the stone and setting I could get at the new place with my old seller's upgraded offers. The new place would charge me $300 more for the custom setting in comparison to my old seller. But my old seller is willing to pay for the HW appraisal whereas the new place says they will get Gemscan to redo an appraisal in the end. The new place only sells GIA and AGS certified diamonds and their website shows all the GIA specifications of each stone with SKU# whereas my old seller isn't as transparent about his products. The new place has also been mentioned in some newspapers and broadcasts.

New place
Pro: GIA diamond with fair pricing, seems to operate with a more transparent business model
Con: They do the final appraisal with Gemscan, the setting will cost me $300 more so I will have to downgrade my diamond a bit to not go over budget

Old seller
Pro: GIA diamond of slightly better grade at no extra cost, will pay for the new stone to be appraised at HW, says he will try his utmost best to deliver a product that I am satisfied with
Con: I am not sure about the final product I am actually getting since I don't know the jewelry business and whether he will cut corners in ways I don't know about, whether or not the GIA certificate is the original or simply an enhanced type of printout from the internet, broken trust between him and I.

What do you guys think I should do?

Sorry for the long post

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

They do the final appraisal with Gemscan

They are not the appraisal client, you are, or at least you should be. That's true no matter what paperwork the store gives you. It's not an independent appraisal if it comes from the same source as the first.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Mei,
I am glad you are making progress. I think you are getting to a place where you have to make a personal decision. You have obviously lost faith with the original seller, and for good reason. But it seems like he is sincerely trying to make things right for you. On the other hand, the alternative is a company that seems to be more ethical and transparent. I would let your instincts be the guide rather than any small difference in price. You want to be very comfortable with your diamond and your ring in the end, and not have lingering doubts about the quality of what you purchased.

I think that armed with what you know now, and the ongoing support you can get here, you will have a good outcome which ever way you decide to go.

By the way, to add to the curious things seller #1 has told you, it is not possible to remove an inscription with a laser. It is not a tattoo! The diamond would have to be put back on the polishing wheel. This is inconvenient, and costly. Also, I would be cautious about dealing with any jeweler who says he does not check the diamonds he gets from his suppliers. That is no way to protect your customers (or yourself!). It appears that may indeed be what happened here. On the other hand, if gemscan says they would normally mention the laser inscription and for some reason did not in your case, then one wonders if the seller gave instructions to gemscan not to mention the GIA number.

If you do continue with seller #1, be sure to verify his claims every step of the way. Since he is prepared to pay the cost of an appraisal by someone qualified and who you trust, I think you can protect yourself adequately.

It's unfortunate that a consumer would have to be so vigilant. You should be able to rely on the things your jeweler tells you. We are not talking about trivial matters here. A diamond is not only a very expensive item, but a very emotionally important one as well.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Mei]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Hey everyone,

We gave the seller a call saying that after further consideration, I realized that I cannot be happy with the ring because of the memories of frustration and unhappiness tied to the ring. I do not want to be reminded of this feeling every time I look at my engagement ring. We're terribly sorry this didn't work out the way we had hoped. We appreciate your efforts in trying to provide us with the perfect ring but we have both decided on a refund.

He was still trying to save the sale by saying he found the perfect diamond and the render is complete. I haven't been sent the diamond specifications or the render yet. Either way we were adamant on a refund. We wanted to go in and get the refund done today but he said for us to come Monday because it would be too hectic today at the store. I really hope this gets finished on Monday because I have been stressing over it for a week. I don't like to let things drag. I'll have to go to see the seller on my own to get the refund because my boyfriend has work. I'm a bit afraid to do this alone.

I have an appointment to meet with the new place on Wednesday. I had spoke to the owner over the phone and asked for the prices of some diamonds. I can't remember if he said $3800 CAD or $3500 CAD for a 0.70 ct, G colour, SI1, triple excellent GIA certified diamond. Can someone give me some input on the price of the stone I just mentioned? He says he sells premium stones which he checks the quality of them and he doesn't sell ones with black carbon spots.

Because I have to accommodate the $300 increase in price for the custom band at the new place, I'm going to have to keep my diamond at around $3200 CAD. I would like my ideal diamond to be around 0.70 ct, G colour, SI1, excellent cut. I'm not going to get my ideal diamond specifications in my price range. What are some tweaks I can make to my specifications to possibly get the price down to what I need? Should I go down in clarity since he said he doesn't sell ones with black carbon spots? The inclusions of an SI2 in his inventory should still look quite clean? Or should I mention that I don't need a "triple excellent" diamond, that excellent cut very good symmetry, very good polish is good enough? You guys know your diamonds here and I greatly value your opinions. What's not as important when choosing a diamond? I don't really want to go down in colour because it bothers me to see a tinge of yellow when I'm look at it on the side. My eyes just seem to pick up on it. Unless it makes a great difference on the price and the other specs are able to mask the yellow then I wouldn't mind going down to an H.

Best

 

[tmorrow]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Mei,

I am glad you are getting a refund but please stop repeating the same mistakes over and over.

Gemscan paper is worthless so is an appraisal by them you don't need either.
A GIA report is the most important piece which will indicate the price and value of a diamond you will be purchasing.
No appraisal or 'GIA certified or trained appraiser' (which doesn't exist) can take the place of a GIA lab grading report.

Although not necessary it would be a good idea to seek out your own independent appraisal, sourced and paid for by you (don't even tell your seller about it) and any purchase you make should have a refund policy so you have time to get your own appraisal. Don't use an appraiser your seller is known use, that is a conflict of interest no matter how reputable they are.

I also suggest you have a look online more carefully and do a price comparison of an apple with an apple to see how much value you are losing by buying at a B&M.

Also if you are getting CAD work done make sure can show you an example of the exact ring design you want or very similar otherwise go somewhere that can.

 

[MollyMalone]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Mei, you can plug specs into the Diamond Search page here on PS to get an idea of the prices -- in $USD -- for comparable stones offered by sponsoring vendors (for your purposes, think I'd limit the search to In-House diamonds, rather than hit the search All button, which covers the vast "virtual" inventories).
https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results/

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

As much as I find Gemscan's 'appraisals' a bit annoying, they're not a bad company and they work in an industry where there really ARE a lot of bad companies. They screwed up here in missing the inscription and it sounds like they offered to fix it. Crossing a borderline and calling an I1 an SI2 is NOT, of itself, a problem and it's expressly within the GIA grading rules.

My problem with their appraisals, particularly in this situation, is that they're overtly working for the seller, not the buyer, and the one's I've seen have been woefully inadequate in terms of descriptions, especially when it comes to the mountings and the photographs. They are designed to help sellers sell things rather than to help buyers buy things or to provide complete paperwork for consumers to properly document for an insurance policy … the stated purpose. I certainly encourage the plan of getting an appraisal, particularly given the problems heretofore, and I definitely agree that you should hire one who is working for you, not them.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

I checked out Blue Nile because you wanted comparisons to price. I found one that is 0.6 on the HCA...Crown is a bit shallow but this is where you "give a little, get a little" kind of scenario. The size is lovely. Of course, it's an SI-2 but with a clarity of SI-2 is because of a crystal. Just need to verify it's eye clean. You can learn about ASET images but there might be 1 out of 2000 vendors in Toronto that might have one. If you do find one, please post their name. LOL

http://www.bluenile.com/ca/diamond-details/LD05224836

Go check out Blue Nile for comparison costs & play around with the search tool. Plug in the combinations you want & check the stones. But I'll tell you now, the Canadian vendors will have a lot of trouble matching the prices you will find south of the border, even with our exchange rate. It would be a good idea to put pen to paper & figure out what exchange would be & maybe a road trip to Michigan to pick up the stone or maybe a night in Frankenmuth.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Also, if you find something on Blue Nile, get an account & call them to hold it. They will put a hold for, oh heck, I think it's 3 days, customer service can tell you (open 24-7). That should get you past the weekend. Check out jamesallen.com, they have quite a few .70's G, GIA, SI-1 in the $3400 - 3600 Can. range you can take a look at. The ones in the .80's in an SI-1, are in around $4300- 4600 range. This should help you with some comparison shopping.

Take a deep breath, don't rush buying a stone unless you feel very confident it's the stone you want.

 

[pyramid]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Remember ccuheartnurse that GIA article which said internal feathers are plotted as crystals, this would put me off an SI2 crystal. A feather reaches the surface other breaks are crystals band treated the same as actual crystalised inclusions of peridot, diamond, ruby etc found inside diamond.

 

[Mei]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Hello

Everyone's advice and opinions were really helpful. I finally got the refund from the first seller. Yayyyyy! It was one week of stressing and I'm glad it's finally done.

Next, I'm going to meet with the new seller Wednesday to discuss about the diamond. I've browsed his inventory online, picked out a handful of ones that meet my 4C's criteria, plugged in the numbers from their GIA reports to see what HCA says about them, further narrow my choices down with that tool (HCA rating of <2.0) and then I'll bring my final picks to him to narrow it down even more after I see the inclusions. He says we're working on a virtual basis since he doesn't have all the stones in possession, so really we're judging from different pictures of the stones in 50x magnification. I think that's okay? I asked if he had idealscope images of the diamonds as well, but unfortunately not all of them do. He said most of them do though, but that is dependent on the information he gets from his suppliers.

I'm not really looking to buy a stone online since I want a custom design setting. I have been to bluenile and james allen before, and I will definitely use them to check out some stone prices

I know the new seller said he gets the final appraisals done by Gemscan, but since I don't really care for it I'm going to tell him that I want to get it appraised by HW myself. I think what they mean by the final appraisal by Gemscan is that they include it with the final product (diamond already set into custom setting) for me to have something to show the insurance companies if I want to insure the ring. not for validation that the diamond matches the report? I'm not sure... but when I brought up that the seller said the ring would be independently appraised in the end, the person I met with at HW told me that's probably what they meant. I don't think there's a risk of a diamond switch-a-roo or not getting what I thought I paid for with this new seller because the diamond will come with a GIA certifcate/report and the diamond will have the matching GIA laser inscription on it which I will ask to verify with my own eyes. I don't think the seller will just get a similar stone, inscribe it with a GIA number and match it to the stone's characteristics? I should be adequately safe matching up the stone's inscription with the report?

I hope I have covered all the bases and can find a lovely shining diamond this time around with little stress.
*sigh of relief*

 

[MollyMalone]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Just so you know.... not every diamond graded by GIA will have the report number inscribed on the stone. The laser inscription is included in the less expensive cost of a Diamond Dossier report [available only for diamonds of less than 2 carats], where clarity plotting is not provided. But GIA charges an additional fee for the laser inscription when asked to produce the pricier, full Diamond Grading Report that includes the clarity plotting (which serves as the stone's "fingerprint"). Here's the GIA page explaining the differences in their 3 kinds of reports:
http://www.gia.edu/gem-lab-service/diamond-grading

 

[Mei]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

Just so you know.... not every diamond graded by GIA will have the report number inscribed on the stone. The laser inscription is included in the less expensive cost of a Diamond Dossier report [available only for diamonds of less than 2 carats], where clarity plotting is not provided. But GIA charges an additional fee for the laser inscription when asked to produce the pricier, full Diamond Grading Report that includes the clarity plotting (which serves as the stone's "fingerprint"). Here's the GIA page explaining the differences in their 3 kinds of reports:
http://www.gia.edu/gem-lab-service/diamond-grading

Thanks! I'm looking for a diamond around 0.7 ct (maybe even smaller) because my finger is quite small. I fit a size 3.5. Pretty sure I'm getting a Diamond Dossier report because the new seller's site has their diamonds up and they also have a link that pulls up the Diamond Dossier Report from the GIA site. The report shows the laser inscription number. I should be safe if I am able to verify the inscription? There's no plot shown on the report but we're going to take a look at pictures of the diamond that's 50x to look at the inclusions. Would it be good enough to judge the stone by confirming the laser inscription, using the HCA and viewing the diamond in 50x? I'd like to look at the idealscope pictures too if they have them. Apparently the new seller used to cut diamonds in the factory himself, so perhaps he will be knowledgeable enough to help me assess the diamond well?

currently trying to research all I can about diamonds

 

[proto]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

I dont get the issue (although I appreciate it must be annoying).

There is no absolute value for SI2 or I1 or anything.

There are gradings by different labs which use Si2 and I1 to describe the clarity of a diamond.

If they sell you an Si2 by Gemscan, thats what they sold you. There is no misrepresentation.

The fact that it was graded less than Si2 by GIA is not relevant to an issue of misrepresentation.

I am not in the diamond trade, and I had thought that sending gems to multiple labs was fairly common to get the best price. You think a diamond is on a borderline GIA grade (but likely to get the lower one) and the difference will make a big difference in price, so you send it to IGI Israel and get a much much higher grade. Its discounted because its IGI Israel, rather than GIA, but its still worth more than the grade which GIA would give it because some consumer who has done some (but not enough) research will be impressed with the specification.

This is not uncommon is it? Its why I stick solely to GIA/AGS.

 

[Mei]

Re: Gemscan diamond but turns out to have GIA laser engravin

I dont get the issue (although I appreciate it must be annoying).

There is no absolute value for SI2 or I1 or anything.

There are gradings by different labs which use Si2 and I1 to describe the clarity of a diamond.

If they sell you an Si2 by Gemscan, thats what they sold you. There is no misrepresentation.

The fact that it was graded less than Si2 by GIA is not relevant to an issue of misrepresentation.

I am not in the diamond trade, and I had thought that sending gems to multiple labs was fairly common to get the best price. You think a diamond is on a borderline GIA grade (but likely to get the lower one) and the difference will make a big difference in price, so you send it to IGI Israel and get a much much higher grade. Its discounted because its IGI Israel, rather than GIA, but its still worth more than the grade which GIA would give it because some consumer who has done some (but not enough) research will be impressed with the specification.

This is not uncommon is it? Its why I stick solely to GIA/AGS.

I'm not sure how they do business in the Trade and what's the norm but my issue was that the Gemscan report never noted the GIA inscription and I was never told that about the diamond I purchased. Gemscan should have caught the inscription if they had indeed looked at the stone. So that gives me reason to doubt my seller. I know one grade difference is acceptable between labs but had I known that before my purchase, I would not have bought an si2 Gemscan stone especially since their grading is more relaxed.