eye clean vs. clarity question

sorry forgot link:

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=1681566337&src=builder

Date: 10/16/2008 8:03:37 AM
Author:TimUaD

Does VS and above clarity categorically mean that it is going to be eye clean (I think I am correct in saying eye clean... meaning you can't see the inclusions)?

For instance, if you look at the GIA certificate on this stone from abaizas, it is rated as a VS2, but it's got a big thing right in the middle of the table on the little picture. Will this be visible to the naked eye?

Thanks,

It is likely to be eyeclean but take nothing for granted!!!  Your best bet is to check with the vendor, ask them to have the diamond in hand and talk you through it and make your expectations very clear concerning what is acceptable for you.  You cannot judge whether a diamond will be eyeclean by the grading report, the only way to know is to ask someone who can physically examine the diamond, also there are various factors which can affect individual perception of ' eyecleanliness,' see this thread....

http://www.pricescope.com/forum/faq1/clarity-eye-clean-definition-interpretation-and-taste-t30483.html

It''s likely to be eyeclean, but no, not every VS2 is automatically eyeclean. Also depends on your definition of eyeclean. Best to define your expectations, then ask the vendor.

So the online vendors will physically look at them for you?  Will they honestly give you a professonal opinion?  For instance, If is asked "is it eye clean, at 12" with 20/20 vision", might they say: "Yes... but the girtle is a little thin and could chip... I would keep searching"?

What If you get the stone and are not happy with it... will online vendors typically allow you to return it?

Thanks

Date: 10/16/2008 8:21:08 AM
Author: TimUaD
So the online vendors will physically look at them for you? Will they honestly give you a professonal opinion? For instance, If is asked 'is it eye clean, at 12' with 20/20 vision', might they say: 'Yes... but the girtle is a little thin and could chip... I would keep searching'?

What If you get the stone and are not happy with it... will online vendors typically allow you to return it?

Thanks

Yes, if you work with vendors who have the diamond you are considering in house.  The vendors are as honest as they can be with their clients especially concerning whether a diamond is eyeclean, as it benefits no one for them to have diamonds being sent back and forth because they failed to give an accurate description, it is a waste of time, money and effort for all parties.  The vendors will evaluate the whole diamond for you, if it is an in house stone they will be able to do so relatively quickly advise on its suitability in all aspects, if it is a diamond they need to call in then it could take a bit longer and there might be shipping fees involved.

The return policies may vary but all the vendors have them so if you were not happy, you have a return window.

Date: 10/16/2008 8:21:08 AM
Author: TimUaD
So the online vendors will physically look at them for you? Will they honestly give you a professonal opinion? For instance, If is asked ''is it eye clean, at 12'' with 20/20 vision'', might they say: ''Yes... but the girtle is a little thin and could chip... I would keep searching''?


What If you get the stone and are not happy with it... will online vendors typically allow you to return it?


Thanks

You can''t generalize about ALL online vendors, but the more customer service oriented ones and ones who are not drop shippers certainly will!

A dealer that says no to me about this is a dealer I don''t want to purchase from personally...

"Eyeclean" in a generic sense means ''can''t see the inclusions without a loupe''.  However, since different lighting, eyesight of different viewers, and different vantage points come into play, it''s important to understand that ''eyeclean'' isn''t really a universally defined term.

Our definition of eyeclean is "can''t see the inclusions in the face-up position at 8cm/25cm, etc. without magnification."  Some more acute eyeballs or those who might see inclusions from the side may need to go a bit higher in clarity to get there.

The most important thing is for you and your chosen vendor to have a common understanding of what the vendor means by eyeclean and what YOU mean by eyeclean.  Working with a vendor that doesn''t drop-ship offers a bit more of an advantage, too, since they can inspect it for you.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for the info, that''s just the kind I was looking for.

If the vendors aren''t "drop shippers" and have the stone on hand, will they also take photos, as well as IS and ASET images for you too?

From what I know now, all that I need to post for you guys to make sure its a good stone is:  eye clean (with agreed definition), IS, ASET, 3C''s (cut typically not available for emerald), table/depth%, P/S, photo of stone. 

Thanks again.

Date: 10/16/2008 12:11:55 PM
Author: TimUaD

Thanks for the info, that's just the kind I was looking for.

If the vendors aren't 'drop shippers' and have the stone on hand, will they also take photos, as well as IS and ASET images for you too?

From what I know now, all that I need to post for you guys to make sure its a good stone is: eye clean (with agreed definition), IS, ASET, 3C's (cut typically not available for emerald), table/depth%, P/S, photo of stone.

Thanks again.

Some will or already have this info available, some may only offer photos or Idealscope, so check with each vendor concerning a particular diamond you may be interested in.

Ideally we need for round stones...

Type of lab grade and or cut grade, carat, colour and clarity
depth%
table%
crown angle
pavilion angle
polish and symmetry grades
girdle thickness
diameter measurement

Photos and Idealscope, hearts images if applicable, ASET images and for you to verify with the vendor if that particular diamond is eyeclean to your standards in many cases.

Fancy shapes ( emerald cut in this example) we need the lab report type, carat colour and clarity, depth, table, crown height, girdle,  polish, symmetry and length to width ratio, detailed photos and ASET images if possible.  Idealscope would help but they are not as useful as ASET for fancy shapes.