ERD Chunky cushion or GOG AVC - help to decide

[CushionNovice]

Hello experts -
Just when i''m deciding on the 1.17 AVC GOG for my HW Inspired ring, Mark at ERD has sent me something to consider. I don''t know how to decide based on just a photo and a certificate - it''s very hard when you don''t know anything about these stones and can really only rely on your help so that i make the best decision. They are pretty much the same costs... I can see from videos etc that GOG are great - but all i have is one pic and a certificate to go on for the ERD....

Is there anything about this ERD that I should be aware of? (In my mind it''s bigger and whiter so that''s awesome, but am I going to get the quality/cut/sparkle that I can clearly see in the GOG Videos..

I really want to bed this down asap... so i would love love love your help if you have a minute.

Many thanks

ERD
GIA CERTIFICATE
CUSHION BRILLIANT
6.52 X 6.40X 4.10
1.25carat
F SI1
POLISH EX
SYM VGOOD
FLU NONE
COMMENTS
CLOUDS ARE NOT SHOWN
SURFACE GRAINING IS NOT SHOWN
CROWN ANGLES ARE GREAT THAN 40DEGREES



GOG
GIA CERTIFICATE
OLD MINE BRILLIANT
6.29 X6.20 X 4.06
1.17carat
I VVS2
POLISH GOOD
SYMM GOOD
FLU NONE
COMMENTS
CROWN ANGLES ARE GREATER THAN 40 DEGREES

I''m trying to upload the certificates and the image that Mark from ERD sent... (hopefully i can do this...)

Any thoughts - of course i would love bigger and whiter but not at the expense of quality!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Can you post the photo?

Also are there additional specs - table %, depth % etc.

 

[CushionNovice]

Thanks CharmyPoo! Trying to do it now.... i can email them but it won''t let me post them... i will keep trying!

 

[CushionNovice]

Still trying to post pics...

The GOG info can be found here:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6386/

I''m just trying to put up the ERD info up here... I''m not sure why i can''t list it...

 

[CharmyPoo]

I can see why the higher color and larger size is appealing

Are you stuck on a square shape or rectangular is ok?

If so, this one might be worth considering too .. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6932/

I really like the AVC you have on hold but it is an I and smaller. You also pay a slight premium for a VVS.

 

[CushionNovice]

ok! here is the ERD Certificate!

 

[CushionNovice]

Thanks Charmy - yes i looked at that one... but he is about $1500k more than both of the ones i''m deciding on....

Hopefully the ERD certificate helps!

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

I like both AVCs, and the one charmy posted is really nice too.

 

[CharmyPoo]

On the ERD diamond, I really want to see a photo too. The photo will help determine if it is worth considering.

Also, did ERD confirm that the stone is eye clean? It is SI1 and inclusions on the table ..

 

[CushionNovice]

Yes he has confirmed it''s eyeclean (i must say he doesn''t give as much info as GOG)...
I have the photo on email but i can''t save it to post! is there a way I can email someone here? (sorry!)

 

[CharmyPoo]

Do you have a webmail option? If you open in Internet Explore, you may be able to right click and save as?

Or ... try the following assuming you are on Windows ..

1. Click on your print screen (PrtSc) button (usually somewhere on the top right of the keyboard). You may need to press ctrl.
2. Go to Paint.
3. Ctrl+V
4. Crop the image to the diamond
5. Save!

Apologies if you already know this.

 

[CushionNovice]

ok - first attempt at the pic - I think it''s not coming out as clearly on my email... (looks lovely there) but i will try again with your instuctions!

 

[CushionNovice]

trying to get a clearer one!

 

[CushionNovice]

and again!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Looks pretty to me but photo is a little fuzzy. It seems that ERD has started doing ASETs although they still need work - you should put in a request and see what they can do for you. How are you feeling about it?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

If you care about light performance you should request an ASET(i know there is a delay in receiving these as they are still learning how to take proper images) but I can already tell what the pros and cons are of the two stones I will assume they are the same price.

ERD Stone

Pros
Bigger Faceup, Bigger Carat Weight, Higher Color

Cons
Will show obstruction and possibly leakage under the table. Smaller virtual facets under the table and inferior optical symmetry.
Inclusions under the table may not be eye clean depending on your standards and the lighting.


GOG AVC

Pros
Excellent Optical Symmetry and light return, higher clarity. Excellent light performance for an 8 main antique cushion. Girdle is within normal range and avoids either extreme.

Cons
Lower Color and Faceup Size

Note: I have ignored finish grades as I don't feel they are important for these two cushions. I can't comment on the girdle of the ERD stone as you didn't list this information.

You need to ask ERD some very specific quetions on whether its eye clean such as:

1) In any lighting do the clouds impact brilliance? (probably they do not)
2) From half an arms length away looking at the side can you see the inclusions?
3) From X distance (you decide) in the faceup position can you see the inclusions?

Also ask him about the girdle and if he sees any issue with it.

In the end you have to decide if cut(light return) is more important than size and color. Assuming the ERD stone is eye clean you should probably view both in person or send both of them to a local appraisor near you so that you can view them in real life and make a final decision.

 

[CushionNovice]

I asked him about the ASET and he said - the following:

I''m sorry but I do not use ASET imagery as its always been my objective and my companies stated policy to look at every diamond and not be dictated by a machine.I actually have purchased one but to date still do not feel comfortable with the images it sends.Maybe in the future i''ll use it a secondary source

Agreed the photo is fuzzy - and to be honest with you, i don''t know how to tell one from another! before i ''found'' pricescope, i was looking down at regular cushions so i''m just so chuffed to have f0und these beauties! should i be concerned about the ''clouds'' or the ''extra facet?''...

I assume mark is just as good as GOG?

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

The ERD stone is very nice... it looks like an AVC

I''d go for the precision cut one myself, the AVC, just to make sure the optics were hot diggity dog.

 

[CushionNovice]

tHANKS so much CCL!
I was writing my other post as you were writing yours - please have a look at that...

I''m in Australia - so i can''t go to see the stones in person....

ERD sent me 2 stones and this was the one that Mark said had better brillance and fire...

I''m not in any way any sort of expert - so i cant'' tell one from another. Like most gals, I''m looking for highest color, largest size but obviously don''t want that over a ''dull'' stone.. so i''m looking to see if the CONS in one outweigh the other.

I will be making this into a HW inspired halo piece (Erica Grace Jewells has been helping me here and has been awesome!)...

Thank you so much...

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Date: 3/9/2010 10:47:00 PM
Author: CushionNovice
I asked him about the ASET and he said - the following:

I''m sorry but I do not use ASET imagery as its always been my objective and my companies stated policy to look at every diamond and not be dictated by a machine.I actually have purchased one but to date still do not feel comfortable with the images it sends.Maybe in the future i''ll use it a secondary source

Agreed the photo is fuzzy - and to be honest with you, i don''t know how to tell one from another! before i ''found'' pricescope, i was looking down at regular cushions so i''m just so chuffed to have f0und these beauties! should i be concerned about the ''clouds'' or the ''extra facet?''...

I assume mark is just as good as GOG?

Mark has an excellent reputation, as does GOG. I think that their policies differe, better to check up on all of them before you make up your mind.

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 3/9/2010 10:39:08 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
Looks pretty to me but photo is a little fuzzy. It seems that ERD has started doing ASETs although they still need work - you should put in a request and see what they can do for you. How are you feeling about it?

Charmypoo - you are lovely - thanks for that! I feel great about it - hello F color and larger for the same price? However that point alone kinda scares me that maybe it won''t be as gorgeous as the GOG i''ve seen in the video... it''s tough when you know nothing and live in Australia!!

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 3/9/2010 10:55:47 PM
Author: dreamer_d

Date: 3/9/2010 10:47:00 PM
Author: CushionNovice
I asked him about the ASET and he said - the following:

I''m sorry but I do not use ASET imagery as its always been my objective and my companies stated policy to look at every diamond and not be dictated by a machine.I actually have purchased one but to date still do not feel comfortable with the images it sends.Maybe in the future i''ll use it a secondary source

Agreed the photo is fuzzy - and to be honest with you, i don''t know how to tell one from another! before i ''found'' pricescope, i was looking down at regular cushions so i''m just so chuffed to have f0und these beauties! should i be concerned about the ''clouds'' or the ''extra facet?''...

I assume mark is just as good as GOG?

Mark has an excellent reputation, as does GOG. I think that their policies differe, better to check up on all of them before you make up your mind.

Oh thank you so much - great point !! will look now x

 

[CharmyPoo]

CCL - The ERD stone girdle is thin to slightly thick so nothing of real concern.

CushionNovice - I have worked with and purchased from ERD and GOG. My first cushion is a 8 main modern from ERD and my second cushion is an AVC. The two vendors are very different in style although they are both great vendors in their own ways.

GOG loves their toys and knows how to use it - they will give you lots of info, images, videos etc which makes internet shopping a lot easier. Jon at GOG is also very technical and understands the science behind cutting a diamond - very few vendors I met understands it as well as him. Jon craves light performance and has invested a lot of time perfecting the AVC. If you ever meet him, you know he truly LOVES his diamonds - his passion is undeniable. GOG also has excellent policies that I found to be unmatched. The AVCs come with a life time upgrade policy that allows you to trade in at 100% for a diamond of equal or greater value. Because of the above reasons, you will find that the AVCs will hold a slight premium over the average cushion.

ERD and Mark has an eye for cushions. They are great for finding cushions within your budget and specs. Mark trusts his eye and isn't a fan of all the fancy technology toys as he indicated to you. He values the overall beauty of the stone and isn't as picky on the technical aspect - this translates to a stone that may not be an absolute top performer but that doesn't mean they aren't beautiful. While his policies are good, you should note that his policies are different from GOG. For example, if you are upgrading, you have to make a purchase that is 40% more than your original stone (I have seen this percentage change over time). You will find Mark's prices for the same carat, color, and clarity to be slightly lower than the AVC.

I will be honest with you. I looked at a lot of antique cut cushions and I couldn't find what I was looking for until I saw the AVC. It blew me away and I have no regrets - but I got what I was looking for in terms of color, clarity, size, and l/w ratio.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/9/2010 11:05:13 PM
Author: CushionNovice

Date: 3/9/2010 10:55:47 PM
Author: dreamer_d

Date: 3/9/2010 10:47:00 PM
Author: CushionNovice
I asked him about the ASET and he said - the following:

I'm sorry but I do not use ASET imagery as its always been my objective and my companies stated policy to look at every diamond and not be dictated by a machine.I actually have purchased one but to date still do not feel comfortable with the images it sends.Maybe in the future i'll use it a secondary source

Agreed the photo is fuzzy - and to be honest with you, i don't know how to tell one from another! before i 'found' pricescope, i was looking down at regular cushions so i'm just so chuffed to have f0und these beauties! should i be concerned about the 'clouds' or the 'extra facet?'...

I assume mark is just as good as GOG?

Mark has an excellent reputation, as does GOG. I think that their policies differe, better to check up on all of them before you make up your mind.

Oh thank you so much - great point !! will look now x

I agree fully with the comments made by Rhino (Jon at GOG) in a recent thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-think-i-found-my-cushion.138170/ as I have seen an AVC in person along with many 8 main vintage faceted cushions.

Rhino-

" There is no such thing as "similar to an August Vintage". It either is or it isn't. There are hundreds of cushions on the market with the older facet design, this does not make them similar to an August Vintage. It must have fine tuned angles in every facet set to produce very specific optics. Facet design is one thing. Light performance and optical design is a whole other arena and in a decade of picking diamonds for light performance I have never seen one that looks like an August Vintage. "

GOG's model is to provide the very best in cut and light performance and they back it up with reflector technologies. They also have lifetime upgrade and buyback policies. Gog's higher prices for the same 4 Cs reflect the stringent performance standards and customer friendly policies they provide. Achieving the best in cushion optics is expensive both in lower diamond yield(lower weight from the same rough) and the costly time and efforts spent on research and developement.

ERD's model is to find the best available stone within a customers budget and preferences. They are often very competitive on price but will simply show you available options and let you make a decision for yourself.
They don't invest in cut developement or spend extensive time researching diamond optics. While they won't sell you a poor performing stone they do not have nearly as high standards for light performance as Jon at GOG does and their eyes really aren't nearly as selective.

They have two very different models that appeal to two different types of consumers. I think it is crucial that pricecopers understand the differences between these two vendors. I have purchased stones from both of them and hold both in high regard.

I think Charmypoo said it more eloquently than I have in her post above.

 

[CharmyPoo]

With all that is said, I hope I am not swaying you away from the ERD cushion. I think it is a beauty and a very nice cushion from what I can tell through the photo. There are no major red flags and definetly worth considering. You are guaranteed a beauty if it is an AVC but if you go for the ERD stone .. you are getting a bigger stone that is higher in color - this goes a long way in my opinion!! An I could be too warm for your liking - I know I would not purchase an I as my engagement ring because I am very color sensitive. If you want it all, you can increase your budget that is what I kept doing.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/9/2010 10:52:23 PM
Author: CushionNovice
tHANKS so much CCL!
I was writing my other post as you were writing yours - please have a look at that...

I''m in Australia - so i can''t go to see the stones in person....

ERD sent me 2 stones and this was the one that Mark said had better brillance and fire...

I''m not in any way any sort of expert - so i cant'' tell one from another. Like most gals, I''m looking for highest color, largest size but obviously don''t want that over a ''dull'' stone.. so i''m looking to see if the CONS in one outweigh the other.

I will be making this into a HW inspired halo piece (Erica Grace Jewells has been helping me here and has been awesome!)...

Thank you so much...

If you can wait a couple of days hopefully ERD will sort out their technical problems with using the ASET camera and can provide for you the image you requested.
I know I did request an ASET and received one from Mark about 7 months ago so persistance pays off just ask them really nicely, its a bit of a transition for them to be doing ASETs regularly. Considering you don''t want to be shipping diamonds halfway across the world until you are sure of your choice I think its a reasonable request.

Just in case you would like to know my HW inspired micropave ring from ERD is shown here.

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 3/10/2010 12:12:14 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/9/2010 10:52:23 PM
Author: CushionNovice
tHANKS so much CCL!
I was writing my other post as you were writing yours - please have a look at that...

I''m in Australia - so i can''t go to see the stones in person....

ERD sent me 2 stones and this was the one that Mark said had better brillance and fire...

I''m not in any way any sort of expert - so i cant'' tell one from another. Like most gals, I''m looking for highest color, largest size but obviously don''t want that over a ''dull'' stone.. so i''m looking to see if the CONS in one outweigh the other.

I will be making this into a HW inspired halo piece (Erica Grace Jewells has been helping me here and has been awesome!)...

Thank you so much...

If you can wait a couple of days hopefully ERD will sort out their technical problems with using the ASET camera and can provide for you the image you requested.
I know I did request an ASET and received one from Mark about 7 months ago so persistance pays off just ask them really nicely, its a bit of a transition for them to be doing ASETs regularly. Considering you don''t want to be shipping diamonds halfway across the world until you are sure of your choice I think its a reasonable request.

Just in case you would like to know my HW inspired micropave ring from ERD is shown here.

CCL - I will admit that i did look though all of your posts and i did read about your conundrum when deciding on the diamond... with all of this info in mind - and if mark responds well to my questions about the eye clean''ness of the stone (he said yes but then i have sent him the questions you said i should ask)... if all that is good i will probably go for the whiter and bigger... i am a little worried about an I stone... i will report back. thanks again to everyone for the great great advice.. I hope my final ring turns out as gorgeous!!

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 3/9/2010 11:47:05 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
With all that is said, I hope I am not swaying you away from the ERD cushion. I think it is a beauty and a very nice cushion from what I can tell through the photo. There are no major red flags and definetly worth considering. You are guaranteed a beauty if it is an AVC but if you go for the ERD stone .. you are getting a bigger stone that is higher in color - this goes a long way in my opinion!! An I could be too warm for your liking - I know I would not purchase an I as my engagement ring because I am very color sensitive. If you want it all, you can increase your budget that is what I kept doing.

Thanks Charmy - yes I''ve been worried about the I - however I must say in the video it did look very white... I will say i''m quite excited though at getting an F color thats bigger for the same price.. I know an F color will make me very very happy.. I will say though it has been such a pleasure dealing with GOG - i''m sure he will understand if I go with ERD !

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

If I was buying a cushion from Mark I would want to see it myself in person before I made a final decision. I do trust his eye, it has been proven, but I am too much of a control freak not to want to lay my own eyes on it too, first

In contrast, I would buy an AVC without needing to see it in person first because of all the techy stuff that GOG can provide to help give me an idea of what I was getting.

Am I correct that you cannot see it in person before buying? You are overseas? I would be nervous about making such a large purchase without the peace of mind of great photos and stuff if I were overseas.

 

[CushionNovice]

Date: 3/10/2010 1:47:14 AM
Author: dreamer_d
If I was buying a cushion from Mark I would want to see it myself in person before I made a final decision. I do trust his eye, it has been proven, but I am too much of a control freak not to want to lay my own eyes on it too, first

In contrast, I would buy an AVC without needing to see it in person first because of all the techy stuff that GOG can provide to help give me an idea of what I was getting.


Am I correct that you cannot see it in person before buying? You are overseas? I would be nervous about making such a large purchase without the peace of mind of great photos and stuff if I were overseas.

Hey Dreamer - yes i am in Australia - so there is no way i can see it.. My jeweller (Erica Grace) has said she is happy to have it sent to her direct and if she says it is not up to scratch she can be my ''eyes''.... Mark has said i can return it... Its just so scary!!

But i think i need to remember that i am a complete novice so i''m sure i will love it.... i probably wont be able to spot all the things that the experts could - however it is great to use this information as a guide so that i know i''m on the right path.

Thanks again for your help here too!