EGL - Antwerp?

[jeff0514]

Any thoughts/experience with these guys on diamond grading? I spoke with a jeweler who says that EGL - New York isn''t worth the paper their reports are written on, but suggested that EGL-Antwerp is actually more stringent than GIA.

 

[oldminer]

I would doubt the truth of that statement. Saying that about a large lab shows the arrogance of the person who said it, but does nothing to improve confidence in how to go about making a good purchase or where to place your trust.

EGL in NY has made large strides in improving their output. Even with these commendable changes there are few diamond dealers who would accept the exact validity of the EGL color and clarity grading as exact equivalents for GIA grading. Even EGL does not say their grades are exactly GIA grades. When it comes to setting the value on a diamond it is the GIA equivalent grade that counts no matter who graded it or what the grades are. Diamond dealers know what grade a stone is. The report is a marketing tool, not some sort of holy grail. Yes, many dealers use EGL reports with great success, but the price differentials on stones of equal color and clarity when compared to GIA reports show the relative level of credence given to those reports.

This is not knocking the EGL... There are many far worse places to put your faith in when it comes to diamond grading reports. EGL-NY has a high degree of repeatability compared to many alternatives. Besides that, EGL in NY has shared a ton of valuable research to the trade in regard to HTHP diamonds. There is more good news than anything bad.

It is a lot easier to instill fear than to create confidence. It is easier to warn people about danger than to teach them what to do to avoid it. Always look at the motivation of the speaker. Do they have a vested interest in the outcome of the decision they are hoping to influence.
This is a good clue of their potential bias.

 

[jeff0514]

The whole reason he made that statement I believe is because I questioned the validity of EGL in general. That's when he told me that statement about EGL - NY, but that he uses EGL - Antwerp. Is there any difference between the two?

 

[CaptAubrey]

yes. they are two different companies, which are locked in a big trademark dispute right now. the egl-usa labs would like to stop all certs from the other labs at the border. this might have been the source of the comment.

 

[oldminer]

They are separate yet somehow related businesses. There is a legal dispute between them, too. I thought the question was more about, "Should I put my 100% trust in an EGL report?" versus "Should I put 100% of my trust ONLY in a GIA report/" or "Should I put my trust in any paper document?"

All of the above are good questions, and I think I partially addressed each of them as in my answer. While incomplete, I felt the response would suit the person who asked the question.

 

[valeria101]

Hm... there were barely any trials to identify the accuracy and consistency of these labs. Of course, professionals handling many stones would basically have their own samples and own grading philosophy...

However, stones with EGL, IGI, HRD certs and so on get discounted (say an average 10%, although Leonid's stats vary) - so it is more of a question "what is the grade worth" ?

The one definitive truth may be that GIA came up with the grades so thei have the advantage of holding the standard. Somehow, diamonds might not be aware of that.

Is it totally foolish to go EGL, accept the discount and get the stone appraised ?

 

[heart prongs]

I have an EGL diamond and I get compliments on it daily! It's EGL International on the cert. and the number begins with a "2". I had my doubts when we were looking at rings, but this one is a sparkly, firey, white H, ideal cut SI1 stone. If you can see it first, that will probably ease and help you to make up your mind. We bought it from a family-owned jeweler, not online. Pricescope tells you to be careful w/ EGL, not to discard them altogether. Good luck -- kl

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Actually the common perception is that EGL USA is much stricter than EGL in Europe.

I see a lot of EGL Israel stones here in the Australian market, and many are very questionable.
This is a photo that we tried to make a fair comparison of a GIA H SI2 and an EGL Israel H SI2.
I found this stone to be a very bad example of EGL's grading because EGL can call a stone SI3 (calling it I1 drops the price a lot) and this might have been acceptable.
But on the other hand I have also seen GIA SI2's that look preetty bad too!

 

[Murph]

I'm no genius, but assuming rough diamonds are fairly consistently priced, if the EGL (whatever version) and IGI certs sell for 10 to 15% less than the same grades in GIA or AGS, I think it stands to reason that their grading is looser. Is the EGL GSI1 a bargain if the GIA would call it an HSI2. Personally I like to know what I'm buying. I'll settle for nothing other than GIA or AGS.
Just my 2c.

Murph

 

[hoorray]

----------------
On 5/7/2004 10:59:57 PM Murph wrote:

Personally I like to know what I'm buying. I'll settle for nothing other than GIA or AGS.
Just my 2c.

Murph----------------

Seems to me there are more ways to know what you are buying than just through the cert. If you get expert opinion that you trust, such as an independent appraiser, of what the stone is, and believe the price you are paying is at least fair if not discounted due to the cert, I see nothing wrong with buying an EGL certed stone. You may need to get a new cert if you want to sell if down the road, but selling a stone as a consumer is a whole other issue.

It's really about knowing what you are getting and paying a fair price. Some people are willing to do more legwork to "find a deal". GIA/AGS certs are certainly the safest route to go.

 

[Murph]

All I'm saying is that just by looking at the cert and the price, I wouldn't necessarily think that EGL and IGI stones are such a bargain. Now, of course, if you want to get them independently appraised and it is confirmed that the grading is accurate, then you do indeed have a bargain, but you still need to pay the appraiser. I just don't like the idea of these certificates being out there that are not true representations of what the stone really is. It just seems like a scam waiting for the unsuspecting consumer.

Murph

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

So Murph if a customer is looking for a H SI2 say, and they see an EGL or IGI stone stone has a grade of say G SI1 that is cheaper than comparable GIA stones, would you still advise the consumer not to consider the alternative?
I would strongly suggest the consumer in this case send one or both to an appraiser for an opinion.
In case you have never noticed there are 'oddly' graded GIA diamonds out there, as well as stones that have been graded twice with diffeerent color, clarity, symmetry, polish etc (they must have slipped through the Horizon program).