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EGL and Pink Diamonds? What's Up?

iLander

Ideal_Rock
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May 23, 2010
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I ran across a lovely pink diamond in an NYC store this summer (not a PS vendor, some unknown dealer) and was amazed at the price. It was a 1 carat pear, in a fancy pink color, for only $3000. The certificate, which I didn't see, was said to be from EGL. I was told it was natural pink color, and not clarity enhanced. But my radar went off, and I walked away from the stone.

Since then, I've come across quite a few pink diamonds, which seem to be very well priced, with EGL rather than GIA certificates. Here's one from a vendor I don't know

http://www.diamondenvy.com/colored-diamond-jewelry/engagements-rings/0-64-fancy-light-pinkish-brown-diamond-ring-in-18k-two-tone-gold.html

What gives? Are they missing indications of artificial color enhancement? How are pink diamonds enhanced? Why not get a GIA report? I couldn't verify the report for this ring on the EGL website (maybe my browser?) so not sure what it might say.

Any ideas? :confused:
 

DSilverberg

Rough_Rock
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May 9, 2013
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Hi iLander!
First of all, thank you for bringing it to our attention that the cert isn't linked properly. Fixing that now.
All of our diamonds are 100% natural and not enhanced in any way (color or clarity wise). We didn't send this diamond to the GIA because the main bodycolor is brown and it's 0.35 carats. Usually a "light" colored diamond isn't as desirable as a "vivid" or "intense" color; in this case, because the main color is brown and the overtone is pink, the light intensity helps hide the brown color and makes the pinkish overtone pop out. We also set the diamond into a rose gold cup to further make the pink color stand out. You can see from the pictures and two videos that it appears to look just like a pink diamond (for the price of a pinkish brown!). Once the ring was made, we sent it to the EGL to certify so that someone buying online can see a third party verification.

If you have any other questions about this ring or any other diamonds on our site, feel free to email or chat with us!

Thank you,
Dina
www.diamondenvy.com
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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iLander|1388674842|3584813 said:
I ran across a lovely pink diamond in an NYC store this summer (not a PS vendor, some unknown dealer) and was amazed at the price. It was a 1 carat pear, in a fancy pink color, for only $3000. The certificate, which I didn't see, was said to be from EGL. I was told it was natural pink color, and not clarity enhanced. But my radar went off, and I walked away from the stone.

Since then, I've come across quite a few pink diamonds, which seem to be very well priced, with EGL rather than GIA certificates. Here's one from a vendor I don't know

http://www.diamondenvy.com/colored-diamond-jewelry/engagements-rings/0-64-fancy-light-pinkish-brown-diamond-ring-in-18k-two-tone-gold.html

What gives? Are they missing indications of artificial color enhancement? How are pink diamonds enhanced? Why not get a GIA report? I couldn't verify the report for this ring on the EGL website (maybe my browser?) so not sure what it might say.

Any ideas? :confused:
EGL-USA has their issues but they've got some capable gemologists and a well equipped lab there. I wouldn't expect them to miss the ID on a treated stone. I have no problem trusting their judgement that a stone is untreated and natural origin.
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
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@Dsilverburg: Why didn't you send it to GIA? Why did you choose EGL instead? I believe GIA also grades mounted stones?

Also, you show a hand perspective shot with your rings, what size is the hand? Yes, we are that picky on PS . . .

BTW, not sure if PS rules allow vendors to directly address questions or comments about their products in a thread. :confused: Many vendors are mentioned in threads and I usually don't see them responding directly to the OP . . .
 

denverappraiser

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The rules are tricky and it's a tightrope for vendors. They're not allowed to promote their wares, even in response to specific questions. He surely has a contact link on their website that you can use to directly ask questions about specific items for sale.

I have fewer restrictions so I'll try to answer (although sometimes I get deleted too)

In a general sense:
No, GIA doesn't grade mounted stones.
EGL-USA is popular for this kind of job because they're cheaper, they're faster, and they inspect jewelry, not just stones.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
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iLander|1388682444|3584887 said:
@Dsilverburg: Why didn't you send it to GIA? Why did you choose EGL instead? I believe GIA also grades mounted stones?

Also, you show a hand perspective shot with your rings, what size is the hand? Yes, we are that picky on PS . . .

BTW, not sure if PS rules allow vendors to directly address questions or comments about their products in a thread. :confused: Many vendors are mentioned in threads and I usually don't see them responding directly to the OP . . .

Andrey has told me that we are allowed to answer specific questions about our goods, or to correct mistakes or misstatements in posts about us. Typically we will not be allowed to respond about someone else's goods unless answering a generic question such as, what does the green in the center of this ASET picture mean. We could explain that with a factual answer so long as we do not praise or denigrate the diamond in question.

Many of the vendors do not actively participate on the boards and may or may not even see your questions. Often the prosumers here can answer your questions fully and can give you good guidance on where to find the answers if they can not. That is what makes this such a friendly and informative place.

Wink
 

DSilverberg

Rough_Rock
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Hi again!
The reason we don't send our jewelry to the GIA is that they just take a very long time. EGL USA has a much faster turn over rate and is reputable enough to verify for customers that the stones are untreated. However, all our loose diamonds on the site are GIA certified.
As for the hand in the picture, it's an average size hand. Our spokesperson Katie, who you can see in the first video, wears a size 6 ring and has an average size hand. You can see how the ring fits on her finger towards the middle of the video.

I don't know why vendors wouldn't try to help out customers who have specific questions about a product they sell, I certainly didn't see anything about that in the rules! I did see that I can't ask you to contact me in another way, so disregard the last sentence of my first response! (I don't know if i'm allowed to say this according to the rules, but we do offer a 60-day return policy with free shipping both ways, so a customer can always try a ring on before deciding to keep it.)

Best of luck!
Dina
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks for the responses!

Dina--It really does help to know that she wears a size 6 ring. There are some ebay vendors that use a hand with size 4 fingers, and their jewelry looks very large as a result.

My question was primarily "why do I see so many pink diamonds with EGL certs in the marketplace?" and not trying to imply that your product was or wasn't of good quality (I apologize that it sounded that way). I just happened to come across your ring and it reminded me of the one (pink with EGL cert) that I saw in NYC. The NYC vendor (I've never heard of him on PS) also had a lot of clarity enhanced diamonds in his case, so I was very doubtful of his particular pink diamond. I assume your diamonds are not clarity enhanced.

Denver and Wink--I'm also not clear on EGL; there seem to be many different branches with different levels of credibility?

Just so everyone knows, I'm primarily a colored stones member, I rarely look at the diamonds and may be asking stupid questions. :bigsmile:
 

DSilverberg

Rough_Rock
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Welcome to the stunning world of diamonds, iLander, where the only stupid questions are those that aren't asked!

I don't want this to reflect poorly on EGL (especially EGL USA where we take many of jewelry pieces), but certainly a diamond of high value should be GIA certified. High value meaning over 1 ct. or of exceptional color or clarity. A certificate's main purpose is to help a diamond owner resell their diamond and a GIA certificate is the most reliable for that.

I don't know anything about the 1 ct. Fancy Pink you saw this summer, but we have a 0.92 Fancy Pink diamond GIA certified natural for sale on our site. It's listed for $40,000...and that's a great price! Also, yes, you're correct, none of our diamonds are clarity enhanced.

Glad I was helpful! I wish I could answer what you really want to know, but I can only speak for our store.

Best of luck,
Dina
 

denverappraiser

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DSilverberg|1388686065|3584931 said:
A certificate's main purpose is to help a diamond owner resell their diamond and a GIA certificate is the most reliable for that.
Hi Dina,

I actually rather specifically disagree with this (that this is the main purpose, not that GIA is reliable). The purpose of the lab inspection as part of the purchase process is to confirm or refute some of the items being told by the seller and that may be important in making an informed decision. Resale issues are an entirely different can of worms.
 

Rockdiamond

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denverappraiser|1388683067|3584890 said:
The rules are tricky and it's a tightrope for vendors. They're not allowed to promote their wares, even in response to specific questions. He surely has a contact link on their website that you can use to directly ask questions about specific items for sale.

I have fewer restrictions so I'll try to answer (although sometimes I get deleted too)

In a general sense:
No, GIA doesn't grade mounted stones.
EGL-USA is popular for this kind of job because they're cheaper, they're faster, and they inspect jewelry, not just stones.
Actually GIA does accept mounted diamonds- at least they did as recently as 2009.
The report is quite vague- for example, there is no clarity listed, and the color is described in general terms… such as "near colorless".
Maybe this is proving your point as this is not actually grading as much is identifying in broad terms

I agree that EGL USA would be able to detect a treated stone – however EGL USA grades are pretty much meaningless in relation to GIA grading. So I don't know that one is much better or worse than the other if one is looking for specific and correct grading.


Ilander- anyone claiming to be offering a natural fancy pink one carat diamond for $4000 is probably also selling a bridge someplace :naughty:
Good thing you avoided that one!
 

iLander

Ideal_Rock
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May 23, 2010
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See, this is what worries me about colored diamonds; in colored stones, we are constantly being bombarded with new information regarding new stone treatments. There is just a whole pile of them out there, more every day, and even GIA can't find them all in a colored stone. In CS, we only trust AGL, and they are kept hopping.

That's why I'm a bit worried about the pink diamonds I've seen lately; there seem to be a bunch (I've seen them many places, many sites, I just can't find the websites right now) of them. Have they hit a good vein in the Argyle mines? Or is there a new treatment out there that we won't know about for a couple of years?

Not sure if any of those questions are answerable, I'm just musing at this point . . . :rolleyes:
 

pyramid

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DSilverberg|1388686065|3584931 said:
I don't know anything about the 1 ct. Fancy Pink you saw this summer, but we have a 0.92 Fancy Pink diamond GIA certified natural for sale on our site. It's listed for $40,000...and that's a great price!


I would say a pink diamond for $4000 is a brown diamond which looks pink as said previously. Yes a good pink diamond is the price quoted above, a lesser priced one could also be a pink diamond but it would be a very faint pink as we have seen in some of the diamonds posted by pricescopers. You pay a lot more for a rare pink diamond in the same way you pay a lot more for D color or VVS1 clarity, a top cut and a large carat weight. All the top of the grade things cost more because they are rarer.


As I wrote before about Cut a very good cut is very good it is not poor. The same way a J color diamond is very good but not a D, most believe a VS2 or SI1 is very good and a 1 carat diamond is very good, none of them are excellent though and that is why it costs less. Happy medium they say.

What an excellent cut does do though is mask low color on a diamond but ONLY in the face up position. So we see excellent a lot on this board but no so much of the other rarer C's except size in the large old cuts.

Kennys small colored diamonds cost thousands, if they didn't he may have a 1 carat plus in all the colors.:)
 

ChristineRose

Brilliant_Rock
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Both HPHT mined stones and synthetic stones are possibilities, but I find it unlikely that EGL would not figure it out. They have huge piles of high tech equipment (supplied free by DeBeers) and if it were happening, someone would catch it pretty quick and there'd be a huge noise.

Colored stones are really a different animal because the diamond market is so tightly controlled. There are only a handful of suppliers of pinks, and every one of them knows what every other one is doing.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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iLander|1388768835|3585561 said:
See, this is what worries me about colored diamonds; in colored stones, we are constantly being bombarded with new information regarding new stone treatments. There is just a whole pile of them out there, more every day, and even GIA can't find them all in a colored stone. In CS, we only trust AGL, and they are kept hopping.

That's why I'm a bit worried about the pink diamonds I've seen lately; there seem to be a bunch (I've seen them many places, many sites, I just can't find the websites right now) of them. Have they hit a good vein in the Argyle mines? Or is there a new treatment out there that we won't know about for a couple of years?

Not sure if any of those questions are answerable, I'm just musing at this point . . . :rolleyes:

I think the person actually sort of answered the reason when he or she said it won't go to GIA - its a brown diamond with a pink over tone..... What this means is while EGL might classify it as pink or pink brown, GIA will classify it as brown hence not sending it to them because it will be worth a rather substantial amount less because you have a brown diamond not a pink one.

If you are looking you can find GIA certified brown diamonds with pink undertones and nice looking GIA diamonds classified yellow-brown, pink-brown and so on and they are worth less than ones that are purely pink or yellow.

Here is a GIA graded Pink-brown;

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/15466.htm

I also wonder how accurate the photos are of some of these stones because while they might look pink on your monitor at home when you get them they might be a whole lot less pink and a whole lot more brown looking in real life. If you do decide to buy one make sure it comes with a good refund policy.

EGL USA declares all treatments on their certificates to my knowledge. If you have seen the diamond in person and it is EGL USA and not EGL International and the certificate has no treatments listed and you like the colour there would be no reason not to feel O.K about purchasing it.
 

spicyitalian

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Dec 4, 2013
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95
In short, the jewelers/cutters send diamonds to whichever labs that help that make most money.

Choose GIA. They are your friend not EGL.
 
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