do I still need an independent appraisal?

[gmaster]

If I make a purchase from whiteflash, or another online vendor that offers an independent appraisal with a diamond sale, should I still get a store appraisal for insurance purposes once I receive the diamond/ring? From WF''s website it sounds like I won''t need to get an appraisal, but I''ve read plenty on this forum on the importance of a truly independent appraisal. thanks,

-dan

 

[strmrdr]

Its never a bad idea to have one done.

When/if I ever get the money for a decent size diamond together its going to 2 appraisers and maybe 3 just for kicks.

Its cheap insurance.

 

[JohnQuixote]

For purposes of clarification, the letter of verification is included as a courtesy. It is not intended as a substitute for a ''full blown appraisal,'' such as some of the notable Pricescope appraisers offer. It is suitable for insurance in most cases, which we hope will be helpful to our customers.

The letter of verification includes weight, color, clarity & laser inscriptions as well as setting details and an approximate retail value. It''s performed by a Houston independent appraiser.

 

[JC]

gmaster,

Why not? If you have the time and the money to invest, than a third party evaluation of your diamond by a professionally trained gemological independent appraiser won''t hurt. You may even find that online vendors like WF and others found here on Pricescope offer to send your diamond directly to the appraiser of your choice for that very purpose. You''ll also find many credible appraisers listed on Pricescope that you can use. So I say go for it. Good luck..........

 

[Regular Guy]

I would get one...in the case of a WF or equivalent, from the best local guy I could find (or, in other cases, if the local guy is not technically proficient, I''d send it out to someone who was).

But, you need to know why you might use them, otherwise that document they send you may be sufficient.

1) If you want to confirm the goodness & qualities of the stone, this will help assure you.
2) If you want a document for insurance, unless you have a simple life, have worked for the military, and can get USAA, who will book your receipt:

a) the dollar value for your insurance will be set by the appraisal document, and so you want a smart number. Not sure if WF''s number is smart; frequently, the supplied document is not.
b) If the policy is a replacement policy, I read different things here about what''s important. Detailing specs can only help (and is often cited as a reason to use an appraisal other than the one that comes with the diamond), if it''s possibly branded, to insure replacement of like that kind, have that documented, and the price should be relevant to your diamond, i.e., not too low, so as to make the details ridiculous. (otherwise, getting the price low will only help your annual premiums).

 

[oldminer]

There are several vendors here, including Whiteflash that have excellent track records. There is no need to be paranoid about "trust" or being cheated intentionally. The reason one uses an expert is to assure themselves of everything being correct, as stated, and in order. It leaves a trail of evidence that you were a diligent shopper. If and when you sustain an insured loss and have followed all the reasonable precautions, the adjuster and the insurance firm will bend over backwards to get your claim settled properly. If you were a sloppy buyer, the claims process becomes far more problematic.

Once in a blue moon, we do discover someone has taken deliver of an incorrect diamond that was similar to the one they were supposed to receive. It is not an epidemic, but this is part of our function. A few of us independent appraisers have made a little niche out of serving the public and trade in just the right way to assist in these transactions. Not everyone uses our services and most people are going to be okay anyway. However, for those who choose to use a third party, outisde of the relationship of vendor/client, we can give them special care that no one else provides. Like many other things, top shelf service is for those that choose to use it and for those who can afford it. We''re glad to adapt what we do to a consumer''s needs so long as it is fair and ethical.

 

[lumpkin]

I didn't on my last purchase because I couldn't find a local appraiser who was not affiliated with a store in the directory. BUT, I just got a reference from my insurance company and found an appraiser in my area. I may be buying a diamond and will definitely be taking it to him.

 

[gmaster]

Regular Guy--

Let''s say that I DO have USAA -- what kind of services will they provide me with regards to appraising my diamond? I know they sell diamonds and rings, but I haven''t seen anything about appraising. Thanks

-Dan

Date: 10/26/2005 1:03:21 PM
Author: Regular Guy
2) If you want a document for insurance, unless you have a simple life, have worked for the military, and can get USAA, who will book your receipt:

 

[tawn]

Date: 10/31/2005 11:54:03 PM
Author: gmaster
Regular Guy--

Let''s say that I DO have USAA -- what kind of services will they provide me with regards to appraising my diamond? I know they sell diamonds and rings, but I haven''t seen anything about appraising. Thanks

-Dan

Date: 10/26/2005 1:03:21 PM
Author: Regular Guy
2) If you want a document for insurance, unless you have a simple life, have worked for the military, and can get USAA, who will book your receipt:

I do have USAA....what should I do?

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 11/1/2005 2:30:45 AM
Author: tawn

Date: 10/31/2005 11:54:03 PM
Author: gmaster
Regular Guy--

Let''s say that I DO have USAA -- what kind of services will they provide me with regards to appraising my diamond? I know they sell diamonds and rings, but I haven''t seen anything about appraising. Thanks

-Dan

Date: 10/26/2005 1:03:21 PM
Author: Regular Guy
2) If you want a document for insurance, unless you have a simple life, have worked for the military, and can get USAA, who will book your receipt:

I do have USAA....what should I do?

Tawn & gmaster,

You probably already know USAA is a well regarded insurer. For this reason at least, I called them 17 months ago to review insurance options, and -- not having been in the military, or having a relative who both was in the military and a current USAA customer, and unable to avail myself of their services -- I have naturally limited feedback. Generally, though, the person I spoke to on the phone indicated that to secure their insurance, the dollar amount basis upon which the policy would be set up would or could be the receipt I had for the engagement ring, and not a different amount set by an appraiser. Other details, such as whether an appraisal would separately be either suggested or required at all were not reviewed by me. I would speculate, though, that a detailed appraisal, that captures valued cut information, would only assist your documented relationship with the insurer.

Why don''t you contact USAA, and report back? Or, of course, if others here can comment on their past relationship (I don''t think I''ve read anyone here using them, for some reason -- few military types?), that would be great.

As always, appraisers who will know them through their clients experience, if not their own (I think Denverappraiser has mentioned them positively before), perhaps you can share as well.

Best wishes,

 

[denverappraiser]

USAA is a high quality company and their policyholders are generally pretty happy. Like most companies, they offer a replacement type policy. This means that, in the case of a loss, they will attempt to replace the missing item with another of like kind and quality instead of writing a check for the face value of the policy. Unlike most companies, they use in-house providers to do the replacement instead of striking a deal with a retailer in your area. They do home and auto repairs the same way. It’s a fairly efficient system and it is part of the reason that they have comparatively low rates but it’s not without it’s downside. It requires you to do business with an unfamiliar long distance provider and if you don’t happen to like their supplier or you have a strong preference for you own jeweler this can be irritating.

With all replacement type policies, it’s important to document what you have at the time you bind the policy. The description in the appraisal (or receipt) that you submit will be used as the purchase order for the replacement. This description is usually more important than the bottom line price. Be certain that it’s accurate and complete. They will try to exact the replacement as inexpensively as they can. Anything else would be irresponsible to their stockholders. If the description contains only weight, color and clarity; this is what they will match. If you have spent weeks of effort and an extra thousand dollars to get the perfect hearts, you will not be covered for this unless it’s mentioned in your appraisal. The same thing is true for designer jewelry, brilliancescope results, just the right fluorescence, and anything else that you may have counted as important during your shopping exercise. If it’s important to you, it should be in the appraisal. Meeting the minimum documentation requirements for the insurance company is easy - it’s you who should be demanding higher standards.

The Whiteflash verification letter, accompanied by their sales receipt is often sufficient for most insurance needs if the entire purchase was made from them. Obviously it will be incomplete if you buy a diamond from them and have it set into a ring purchased elsewhere. Read over the documents you are providing and ask yourself if you would be satisfied with a replacement that meets the exact description included. If not, get an appraisal.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[jcrow]

do you set up the independent appraisal before or after the purchse of the diamond? also, what''s the average time the appraisal takes- say if we were to get it appraised in another state different from the state the diamond is purchased in?

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 11/1/2005 9:52:00 AM
Author: jcrow
do you set up the independent appraisal before or after the purchse of the diamond? also, what''s the average time the appraisal takes- say if we were to get it appraised in another state different from the state the diamond is purchased in?

Sometimes appraisers can get pretty busy and you need to schedule a bit in advance and sometimes you can luck out and get in quickly. If you are buying from a dealer who has a certain return period and you are planning on using the results of your appraisal as part of your decision to keep or return the stone you should probably schedule the appointment before you have the stone shipped. If this isn''t the case, it doesn''t much matter.

Most of my appraisals involve an inspection that takes about an hour. Most of my local clients will want to wait and watch. I try to get the report written at the same time and you can leave with it in hand but this sometimes takes a little extra and I''ll mail it. I generally book appointments about a week in advance.

Shipping to an appraiser in a different state is usually done by USPS registered mail. This can take anywhere from a day to about a week each way depending on how far they are from you. If it''s being shipped by the dealer directly to the appraiser, they can ship by FedEx overnight but this is backed by 3rd party insurance that most consumers don''t have. Dealers don''t rely on the standard FedEx insurance and you shouldn''t either. The shipping to the appraiser can be part of the wait for your scheduled appointment so really it only adds a couple of days to do this. The appraiser may be able to ship back overnight using the same coverage as the dealers if they''ve bought the policy.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[jcrow]

i hadn''t thought to have it appraised before i purchased it! i have an appointment this weekend to see and accept the diamond i have on hold. i guess i need to make an appointment with an appraiser asap... and coordinate with WF. thanks so much for the info!

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 11/1/2005 8:22:13 AM
Author: denverappraiser

USAA is a high quality company and their policyholders are generally pretty happy. Like most companies, they offer a replacement type policy. This means that, in the case of a loss, they will attempt to replace the missing item with another of like kind and quality instead of writing a check for the face value of the policy. Unlike most companies, they use in-house providers to do the replacement instead of striking a deal with a retailer in your area. They do home and auto repairs the same way. It’s a fairly efficient system and it is part of the reason that they have comparatively low rates but it’s not without it’s downside. It requires you to do business with an unfamiliar long distance provider and if you don’t happen to like their supplier or you have a strong preference for you own jeweler this can be irritating.

Neil (and knowledgeable others),

Maybe you''ve answered the question, then...and this did come up in a previous discussion...so:

a) for those shoppers here who do value having specifically a branded option (whether WF ACA, or Superbcert, Infinity, etc., and especially, where a premium is paid for the benefit of the premium, if not the specific character of the diamond, is it clear to you that getting a replacement from the brand source is not an option with USAA?

b) and likewise, it is clear to you that with other replacement type policies, the option of going to the same branded sources for replacement is readily available?

 

[denverappraiser]

The details of each policy and each company are different. This is a question to ask a representative of USAA. I can only spean in the broadest generalities. With most companies, they will replace using the submitted appraisal as something of a purchase order. If it says that the piece was by a particular designer, they will either try to find a source for that particular designer or offer you an alternative and try to convince you that their alternative source is sufficient. In the end, if they can''t get it, and you don''t care for the alternatives, they will cash out for the face value of the policy. The same rules apply to branding on diamonds. If you had a GIA lab report, they must either provide a GIA graded stone or convince you that an EGL stone is an acceptable substitute. If you lost an ACA, they must replace with an ACA or something that you agree is an acceptable alternative. By accepting the appraisal and writing a policy based on it, they are agreeing that the description contained is the minimum acceptable replacement.

If the documentation doesn''t mention that it was an Infinity stone, they are not obligate to replace with an Infinity. This is no problem if you don''t care who made it but if this was an important consideration in your purchase it should be included in the description. It''s unreasonable to expect the company to be able to replace an item up to your standards if you don''t tell them what those standards are and it''s entirely appropriate that you tell them this before they agree to the policy. This is a big piece of the reason that they require clients to submit the paperwork instead of just figuring out for themselves.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver