Deciding between 2 Princess cuts...need some help.

[utah22]

OK.. .I had an earlier post where I listed 2 princess cuts, but didn''t have much information other than their weights and table & depth info... I went to another jeweler today (referred to by a really good friend) and we came to a decision between 2 diamonds that fit within my budget. He''s going to custom make the ring/setting and there will be 8 diamonds (total of only about .40 on the setting... but I digress, here''s the scoop on the diamonds. I really need some help, because I''m starting to get close to crunch time here.

First diamond:
1.20CT
6.05x5.51x4.22
Clarity: VS1
Color: E
Depth - 76.5%
Table - 74%
Crown - 11.7%
Pavilion: 45.9%
Girdle: Very think to sl. thick polished
culut: none
Flourescence: None
Polish: very good
symmetry: Good to very good
EGL cert from Los Angeles
Price: $7800 out the door (incl tax & everything.)

Second diamond:
1.56ct
6.28x6.2x4.57mm
Depth - 72.8%
Table - 74%
Clarity - SI3
Color - F
Crown - 12.7%
Pavilion - 55.4%
Girdle - Thin to medium polished
Culet: none
Polish: very good
Symmetry - Good
EGL cert from L.A.
Price: $7100 out the door (incl tax & everything...)

So... looking at them both they both look nice. The SI3 has a small dark crystal or something in the center of the face, which sucks, but I can''t see it with the naked eye. They''re both very clear and not yellowish at all, compared to some H''s I saw... nice sparkle too. I''m concerned about the table being a bit bigger than the cut (which I''m told is within range for a princess?) Also there are no windows (according to the jeweler) which is what he says he looks for....

are these good? the $7100 is much more what I was looking to spend. and I know she''ll love it either way, but as a typical guy I want to make sure I''m getting the best deal I can.

 

[utah22]

ANYTHING??? ANYONE???

I''m dying for some input here.... I''ve now read some posts on SI3''s and that scares me that they don''t even have SI3 on GIA. Should I be worried that they''re not GIA? Is this going to really devalue the ring?

I gave the guy a deposit but want to make sure I call either way by tomorrow to either take one of those, or have the check cancelled and move on to another.... but I''m then REALLY going to be under the gun trying to find something.

any input???

 

[belle]

since you have seen both of these diamonds, you''re the only one who can decide whether or not to buy. there is nothing better than being able to see a stone in person. do you like the way they look? is there a big difference (in your eyes) between the two? trust your eyes, don''t second guess yourself!! good luck!

 

[utah22]

Thanks for the words of encouragement Belle... I''m one of those people who really needs "buy in" on a purchase, so I''m really starting to second guess! I thought the larger 1.5ct one looked pretty good, but in the back of my head, knowing that it''s an SI3 and has an inclusion pretty much smack dab in the center sort of bugs me.. although I don''t think anyone would ever be able to detect it with their naked eye. It also fits into my budget, and at the end of the day, i wouldn''t be surprised if she''s more excited about the actual setting than the diamond!!

Just for my own piece of mind though... are those measurements pretty bad or fairly decent????

 

[belle]

yes, they''re decent. if you''re into the #''s, the first one is more "out of square" and it''s a little deep.
but, it''s worth repeating, buy what you like!!! one of them should really "speak" to you. what type of setting are you thinking of?

 

[utah22]

I know almost exactly the setting she wants (or at least has dropped hints about) and got a great recommendation from someone on this site (one for life)... there''s a picture of it on http://www.bestgem.com/diamonds_productdetails.asp?cat=8&path=1&id=1151&diamname= and it''s called "Bettina"

She likes the filagree work, so they''re going to custom make that. I realize too, just a little before you mentioned it, that the first one isn''t really even a princess, but more of a rectangle.

I just get a little overwhelmed looking at all of them next to one another and waiting for one to REALLY jump out, because they''re all so nice. The one thing that I really notice is the color. Especially when sitting next to one another... once he got into the "H" level, I could see noticable yellowing effects, so I wanted to stay higher in the D, E, F range. I''m just hoping the SI3 isn''t a bad call.

I''m going to call him back today with my decision to either go thru him or not....

 

[belle]

that is a beautiful setting! it isn't a setting for a princess shape diamond though.........

 

[utah22]

Yeah, I know. do you think that''ll make a difference, or will not look nice if a princess is put in there?

 

[belle]

a princess can''t be put in there... princess stones require totally different prongs (to protect the corners). that''s why there''s a list on that page stating which stones can be used. your best bet is to find something specifically for a princess. or, go with that setting and get a round! (or any other shape listed

)

 

[utah22]

Well the guy said he''s going to custom make the setting (the guy I''d be buying the diamond from) and he mentioned he''d use the "V" prongs for the corners because he will only put his princess diamonods in those... so I wouldn''t be buying this off of that website.

Personally I''d prefer to get her a round, but I know she wants a princess.....

Well, I''ll just keep my fingers crossed I guess. Thanks Belle.

If anyone else has any input on this SI3 1.56CT diamond, I''d really welcome the encouragement (or ring bashing if need be!)

(I''m a glutton for punishment.....)

 

[belle]

okay, custom, great!!

so to take a little guesswork out of it, here''s an idea of what it *might* look like.........(no, i''m not good at this!)

 

[utah22]

How cool!! Thanks! That looks really nice, in my opinion....

Do you think an SI3 is going to be too low of a grade for a 1.56 ct diamond?

 

[utah22]

Belle,

You mentioned that the 1.20ct one was pretty deep.... do you think it''s TOO deep? i know it''s recangular in shape too, is that a bad sign?

I looked it up on the EGL website & it''s valued a bit higher with the appraisal value.... obviously costs a bit more too, but i''m still leery of that other SI3 rating.

 

[belle]

well, perhaps if you''re somewhat anal, it''s too deep and way out of square. if you''re not anal, then it might not be too deep and it''s just a little out of square.
if you''ve seen the si3 and did not see an inclusion (and don''t think anyone else that would care could see it), then i wouldn''t worry tooo much about it.
go look at them again. look as much as you can!! make sure you''re happy. that is what matters.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

AGS has announced that they will start grading princesses in the first quarter of this year. At worse, this will be in March.

Their research has shown that of the current princess-cuts on the market:

About 2.7 % would get an AGS-0-cut
6.7 % would get 1
9.4 % would get 2
12.3 % would get 3
16.1 % would get 4
and the remaining 53 % would get a grade of 5 or lower.

With the current information given by a Sarin or OGI, there is no way of knowing which AGS-grade a stone will get.

In other words, the majority of the currently available princess-cuts have a very low cut-grade. Even if your retailer consistently chooses the top 20%-performers, we are still looking at a cut-grade between 0 and 2 (together about 18%).

It is essential for potential princess-owners to be aware of this.

As for these 2 particular stones, the first one has a depth of 76.5%, a crown of 11.7¨% and a pavilion of 45.9%. Probably, that last figure is a typo, and it should be 55.9%. This still leaves us with a girdle of about 10%, which on its own would give the stone a future AGS-grade of 9 or 10.

The second stone would in the same calculation come out with a girdle of 4.7%, which is still just in the AGS-0-range for the girdle. With a table of 74%, there is only a very small probability that it is an AGS-0. I only have one fully calculated example of an AGS-0 with a table of 75%, and the pavilion is a lot deeper than that on your stone. Sadly, there is not sufficient information to say anything more. If you would like to know which AGS cut-grade this stone really has, I would have to rely on calculated guesswork, and in that case, my guess would be a 5 or 6.

Live long,

 

[valeria101]

With the numbers infront there isn''t much to look for but size, shape and... the AGA charts.

Both are a tas smaller then feasible because they are deep. The 1.2 is rectangular (which did bring down the price, as usual)...

Looking at the specs and price, the reports could have esily been GIA''s... and if EGL''s F was fine, GIA''s G would too.

The one good news is the high crown of both stones - the detail is supposed to increse the chances that these are actually quite brilliant stones, but there is no way to know if this rule of thumb works or not in the particular case until you get some kind of refference for cut quality.

I am not sure what the jeweler meant by "windows", it takes a weird cut to make a diamond of traditional shape see through - it is possible, but 30-40% depth comes to mind.

Princess cuts may have this issue if cut deep and with large tables - you don''t get to see through the botom, but throug the sides at a small tilt. Something rather annoying in a ring, IMO. Rectangular stones show more of this. I would expect to notice such a window in both those stones, actually. Haven''t seen them, of course, and I can imagine reasons why they would be really perfect too (say, extra facets on the pavilion - it happens).

Here''s what those "windows" look like (the white bowtie-shapes patches under the Iscope image below):

(The image comes from here)

Did you try to price out similar diamonds (if buying online is on the list at all) ? There seem to be a few 1.4-1.5 cts F/G SI princess cuts below 7k out there. If rectangular is ok, than there is a discount - good news if you do like the shape. Here''s one like that 1.54 F/SI1 GIA and another 1.54 F/SI2 GIA. I would expect 1.5 carats to yield a stone visibly larger than 6mm (hopefully, 6.5 - but that doesn''t seem to happen). These seem reasonably large for the weight, and I definitely haven''t searched all there is - just one shop.

Hope some of the 0.2 worth is useful

 

[utah22]

Thanks for the input on these all... I went & looked at another jeweler today and am now really confused!! I think I simply have to call the guy I gave my deposit to, ask to see the stones again, and determine if it''s a large enough flaw to detect via looking at it without a loupe.

It literally kept me up all night thinking about it! Size isn''t the main factor to me, but I did think it''d be nice to have a larger stone... now I''m thinking I want to look at some that are smaller, have more clarity, and just get this ordeal over with already!! All this headache!! She''s so worth it, but this is making me worry way too much!!