DeBeers Announces yet another Price Hike...

[niceice]

From IDEX 8/11/2004:

DTC Announces Rough Diamond Price Increase

(August 11, ''04, 7:17 Edahn Golan)

The DTC has revealed today its third price hike of the year, effective from Sight 7 to be held next week. On average, prices will go up 5 percent.

DTC Rough diamonds prices up 13% on average since January

In a press release the company says “assortments will remain consistent but, as usual, box mixtures and therefore prices, may vary according to intakes”.

The price hike is explained by growth in retail sales of diamond jewelry during the first half of the year. The DTC estimates the growth at around 7 percent, “resulting in a decline in polished stocks held in the cutting centers and a rise in the price of most categories of polished diamonds”.

Consumer confidence levels have increased and macro economic indicators are broadly positive, DTC says, indicating that the environment will be in place to support continued strong consumer demand in the second half of 2004.

“Therefore the price increase is based on the fundamentals of the market as indicated by a strong first half and is further supported by expectations of continued growth in H2.”

DTC increased prices by 3 percent prior to Sight 1 in January and again before Sight 3, by another 5 percent. With the last official hike, prices have increased 13 percent on average so far this year, but in some items – especially the Indian goods - prices have been pushed up at least 15 percent.

BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto, both of whom mine in Canada’s Northwest Territories, have outpaced De Beers with much higher price increases this year.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So what does it mean for consumers? Well, really the same thing that it means for every dealer here on PS... We''re all going to be paying higher prices for the diamonds that we buy. Many of you will recall that we indicated in the third quarter of last year that substantial price increases were to be expected throughout the 4th quarter and into 2004 and our message now is the same as it was then... Diamond prices rarely decrease after they have been increased and historically this has occurred only when the DTC has wanted to intentionally flood the market to dissuade consumers from being sucked into a diamond investment scam or something like that. So we can expect diamond prices to continue to escalate and it is unlikely that they will decrease. It was really unfortunate for one of our customers a few weeks ago who passed up a diamond on our Private Reserve because he couldn''t accept the fact that prices had increased while he had been staring at the stone on our inventory listing and (later indicated that he) hoped diamond prices would go back down... Somebody else purchased the diamond and a comparable diamond which was added to the Private Reserve a week later ended up selling for about a thousand dollars more than the diamond he had spent two weeks staring at... The point we''re trying to make is this, if you see a diamond on any dealers inventory list which has the characteristics that you are looking for, we suggest that you purchase it because waiting is likely to cost you money... Diamond prices have the potential to increase every Thursday night at midnight by the "Rapaport Clock" (Rapaport Diamond Report) and most in-stock dealers update our prices Friday morning... Virtual dealer inventory will be updated automatically the next time their script scans the multiple listing inventory and we''re sorry to say folks that the prices aren''t negotiable after the increase - new prices are new prices and they are FIRM just like you can''t buy Microsoft for the lower price per share after there is an increase in the price per share - unless of course the market goes down, which is HIGHLY unlikely.

 

[WinkHPD]

Another well thought out and educational post. Thank you for your excellent post.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Sorry for this guys but its gota be said:
Or deal with Rhino @ goodoldgold.com for his older diamonds under 2ct.
He hasnt been raising prices on instock goods under 2ct and untill he does you might find a better deal there but once they are gone the prices will rise on the next batch.

Or just stop buying and tell DeBeers to stick it.

Or make an offer at todays prices and when its rejected move on to the next dealer untill you find one willing to sell at a price your willing to pay.

or really mess with DeBeers plans and buy on the secondary market :}

 

[glitterata]

I wish they'd hurry up and start making large, clean, white synthetic diamonds.

 

[chialea]

I'm excited about synthetic blues, myself.

My new love is Swiss and London blue topaz, which is absolutely georgeous, and stunningly cheaper.

 

[WinkHPD]

----------------
On 8/12/2004 2:20:17 PM strmrdr wrote:

Sorry for this guys but its gota be said:
Or deal with Rhino @ goodoldgold.com for his older diamonds under 2ct.
He hasnt been raising prices on instock goods under 2ct and untill he does you might find a better deal there but once they are gone the prices will rise on the next batch.

Or just stop buying and tell DeBeers to stick it.

Or make an offer at todays prices and when its rejected move on to the next dealer untill you find one willing to sell at a price your willing to pay.

or really mess with DeBeers plans and buy on the secondary market :}



----------------

No need to apologise for telling your side of the equation.

Rhino is a friend and competitor of mine as are Todd and Robin but when prices go high enough I suspect he will eventually raise the price on anything that is still in stock. He is too smart not to. Absorbing four or five percent is one thing, but when the raises add up to ten to twenty percent I am guessing that price raising will be the order of the day for reasons that were well discussed in the other thread. If he is doing it on 2ct plus stones where much of the increases have been, eventually he will either run out of the old stones or be forced by reality into doing it on the smaller stones too.

For those of you wondering when prices will come back down, this move by DeBeers is a clear indication that "not any time soon" is probably the answer.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

P.S. Anyone putting cash on the line at today's prices will probably buy today's stones, but only if it is done soon and only if it is made clear that the deal is an offer and an acceptance provided the stone is as described.

 

[niceice]

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On 8/12/2004 2:20:17 PM strmrdr wrote:

Sorry for this guys but its gota be said:
Or deal with Rhino @ goodoldgold.com for his older diamonds under 2ct.
He hasnt been raising prices on instock goods under 2ct and untill he does you might find a better deal there but once they are gone the prices will rise on the next batch.
----------------

With all due respect, the point to "get" is the reference to "old stock"... Jonathan might not be raising prices on stones which he already had in inventory, but new diamonds will be at new prices... It's not worth changing prices on existing stock when prices change by a percent or two, but when prices change 5 - 7% it can't be ignored because the disparity is too severe. Personally our inventory has been rotating so fast that there isn't really that much "old stock" around to worry about and we can't imagine that Jonathan's is rolling any slower than ours, WF's, Wink's or anybody else's because the market is MOVING... The only delay that we're seeing is from people who are in a state of shock at current prices / every time there is a price change, but then they wake up and realize that the market is moving along despite their hopes that it will slow down and that they're going to have to sacrifice on clarity, color or carat weight down the road if they wait... It sucks, we know, but as individual dealers we're not in control of the market. Bought a real nice load today and if it makes you feel any better, we found ourselves sputtering a bit at the prices, but at least we closed the deal this afternoon just in case prices roll up overnight... The statement made because tonight (Thursday) is the night that prices have the potential to increase on...

 

[strmrdr]

Well thanks for being honest enough to admit that your stocking up at todays lower price so you can take advantage of us when the prices go up by selling them at the new rates.
I dont like the message but atleast your honest about it.

 

[WinkHPD]

That is a bit brutal my friend. Robin and Todd are only doing what they have told their consumers to do, buy now before prices go higher. If prices do go up tonight then they will have the option of giving you a partial raise or a complete raise, but at least they will have the stones available for their clients which is something that a lot of vendors will not have in a few weeks unless they too wish to pay the higher prices. It is not just the consumer who is getting squeezed here, none of us vendors are liking it any either.

May I request you direct your anger at DeBeers, who has stated at the price increase is due to strong consumer demand at the retail level, IE someone is making a profit other than us, so it is time to take it away again.

You have expressed your frustration and anger at us for raising prices when we get hit with a raise, but I do not hear the anguish at DeBeers, who simply is raising prices because it can. We vendors are trying to survive first and then maybe prosper if allowed to do so, but none of us are making huge profits. I know Robin and Todd to be among the straightest of shooters and I acknowledge your anger but simply wish to suggest it is misdirected.

Wink

 

[glitterata]

Why CAN debeers raise prices? Why don't consumers say "Hell with it, I'm getting a sapphire instead!"?

Another way of looking at it: Suppose you've saved up $6000 to buy your honey a diamond ring. Last year you could have gotten her a 1 carat F VS1 (or whatever the case was). This year all you can afford is (say) a 1 carat G SI1. But Debeers still only gets the same $6000 out of you.

Are they counting on guys to borrow more money from their Cousin Joey so they can hit that one carat mark or whatever? Are they betting that people rich enough to buy any diamond can afford to pay a little more for it?

Since nobody actually HAS to buy a diamond, why do consumers put up with higher prices?

 

[DiamondExpert]

glitterata:

The reason De Beers can raise prices is that they control the goods.

Some consumers will say "To hell with it", but there are many reasons others won't - the socal pressures, etc. of perceived necessity (as in getting engaged, etc.).

Also, as you get into the more expensive stones, the folks who can afford them are less deterred by prices/price changes.

 

[strmrdr]

Wink you may request anything you like but it dont mean ill listen :}

Yea its a little brutal but hey anyone that knows me knows that for better or worse I say whats on my mind.
Which is one of the things I like about niceice they do too.

Now some history:
Yea im ticked about debeers but I am a little disappointed by the tone of the second half of niceice's post.
Last time there was a quick increase they were one of 2 vendors that held the line on increases on instock goods.
So the second half of there post above is a little out of charactor because they are seen as one of the vendors on our side.
Then the second post just rubs our faces in it so yea Im a little unhappy bout it.

We the people are trying to get the message out to the entire industry that we have had it with the way the industry is being run.
Im not the only one ticked about it just one of the few making noise about it.

When people I like do something I dont like they hear bout it its just the way I am and I do like R/T.

 

[noobie]

Storm,




I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Wink. Directing your frustation at NiceIce is misplaced. I don't think they have done anything wrong. They are putting down their capital into inventory at a time that they feel that prices are rising and selling it at market rates. I have no idea what's so evil about this. If R/T misread the market and bought a huge inventory and prices crashed, would you be a nice guy and help them out and buy at above market prices? At least they are open and honest about it. There're just trying to make an honest living.




Now pointing your guns at Debeers, I'll be right there with you.




Yes, it's frustrating for a consumer and I'm one of them. I don't like it one bit either. If I don't like the price at NiceIce, I don't buy. If I don't like the prices in the market, I don't buy. If I really want it, I bite the bullet and buy it.

 

[niceice]

----------------
On 8/12/2004 9:05:53 PM strmrdr wrote:

Well thanks for being honest enough to admit that your stocking up at todays lower price so you can take advantage of us when the prices go up by selling them at the new rates.
I dont like the message but atleast your honest about it.
----------------

!!!WHOA!!! Where is THIS coming from?!?! We NEVER said THIS!!! We BUY diamonds EVERY day that we're in the office... Every day! It's what we do, we're not speculating on the increases, we're buying diamonds for inventory just as we have every day since we opened our doors in 1979. Since we both respect each other for being blunt and honest in our advice Strmrdr, we're going to be "really" straight in our response because you're blasting an inferno in our direction and it is unwarranted. You recently asked us whether we were ignoring the price increases in terms of pricing our existing inventory or whether we were maintaining prices in direct relationship to the increases. Everybody knows that we confirmed that we are maintaining our invnetory in direct relationship to the increases... But we did not discuss our annual distribution contracts with our cutters, nor will we, those details are our business and nobody else's. Period. Don't mis-interpret your lack of knowledge pertaining to the distribution contracts that we hold with our suppliers in terms of how we move their inventory as a reflection of how we feel about the current situation with diamond prices... You weren't in our office this morning when we pulled up Rap "Price Changes" but if you had been you would have heard us CHEER that no price changes occurred last night for the round brilliant market... Pear shapes, yes, but do you see a single pear shape in our inventory? (No) So we don't stand to personally benefit from the market when it changes although it seems that may be your perception of the situation, but perception is not necessarily reality. We're not at all happy about the price increases that have occurred in the past few months and we're not at all happy about the price increases that are likely to occur over the next few months... We got wind of the expected price increases in the third quarter of 2003 and we "announced it" blatantly all over Price Scope because we wanted people to be able to get a jump on the market and not get stung by the increase... Does that sound like the actions of somebody hoping to speculate on the market and take advantage of people?!?! Our statement above is quite simple, we find it highly unlikely that any of the high volume internet dealers have any substantial "old stock" and we urge people to buy sooner rather than later to avoid paying more for the same diamond and we're feeling the sting of the price increase ourselves as we come to grip with the new prices that we paid for the parcel of eighteen 1.00 - 1.49 carat diamonds that we purchased yesterday because we paid about 6% more for them than we would have paid for them a few weeks ago because prices are on the rise and DeBeers is holding back on the diamond rough that they are releasing to maintain the strength of their price increases... We're not DeBeers, our last name is not Oppenheimer or however it is spelled... We'll buy diamonds today just as we bought diamonds yesterday and the idea is to sell 7 - 10 of them per day either off of the published inventory list or behind the scenes for people who have been waiting patiently for the right diamond to appear - in which case there is no need for it to ever be listed... There are two primary sectors who are making money on the increases and that is the DTC and it's competitors and the DTC Sight Holders and their equivelent. For the traders at our level of the game, the profits remain the same and volume remains the name of the game, when Microsoft stock goes up, the traders don't make any more but they still profit from the trade. Sorry you don't see it that way. Perhaps you think that the individual / independent owners of the various gas stations in your neighborhood are making a killing on the ever increasing cost of gasoline but in reality the holding tanks beneath their filling stations will only hold so many gallons of gas just as we can only purchase so much in diamonds based upon or resources, they price in reflection to the market, we price in reflection to the market, but in reality who controls the price of a barrel of crude? The owner of the gas station? We think not.

 

[strmrdr]

“Bought a real nice load today and if it makes you feel any better, we found ourselves sputtering a bit at the prices, but at least we closed the deal this afternoon just in case prices roll up overnight... “

We bought a bunch before the price went up.

“we're sorry to say folks that the prices aren't negotiable after the increase - new prices are new prices and they are FIRM”

We will be selling all we can at the higher prices and pocket the difference.


I don’t see where im putting words in your mouth and that’s where it came from.

Rationalization invoking the name of the most hated monopoly today doesn’t help btw.

You gas station analogy doesn’t work either by the way, they buy gas on long term contracts in huge quantities and their price changes at the most 3-4 times a year.
So most of the time it is the local station or its parent jacking you around on the price at the pump.

edit: one of the reasons for my not giving you a pass on this is the difference in your expressed attitude about it compared to before.
You last post sounds more like you than the first in this thread.

 

[niceice]

----------------
On 8/13/2004 2:59:38 PM strmrdr wrote:

“Bought a real nice load today and if it makes you feel any better, we found ourselves sputtering a bit at the prices, but at least we closed the deal this afternoon just in case prices roll up overnight... “

We bought a bunch before the price went up.
----------------

From our perspective... Prices have the potential to increase every Thursday night at midnight and if we're able to close negotiations and get the merchandise shipped before the close of market on Thursday so that the goods are out of the cutter's office then we've essentially locked the price (more on this later) but if negotiations aren't completed and prices change Friday morning then everything starts over again based on the new prices... So we were a bit stunned by the new prices, but we're happy that we were able to purchase a really nice parcel of diamonds and close the deal before the end of the day, it's that simple.

----------------we're sorry to say folks that the prices aren't negotiable after the increase - new prices are new prices and they are FIRM

We will be selling all we can at the higher prices and pocket the difference.
----------------

It's clear that since you're not in the diamond business, you don't understand the diamond business and once again you're putting words in our mouth. Once again, you are not familiar with the distribution contracts that we have with our cutters so you don't know who is pocketing the difference, do you?

----------------
I don't see where im putting words in your mouth and that's where it came from.

Rationalization invoking the name of the most hated monopoly today doesn't help btw.

You gas station analogy doesn't work either by the way, they buy gas on long term contracts in huge quantities and their price changes at the most 3-4 times a year. So most of the time it is the local station or its parent jacking you around on the price at the pump.

edit: one of the reasons for my not giving you a pass on this is the difference in your expressed attitude about it compared to before.
You last post sounds more like you than the first in this thread.

----------------

We're not invoking DeBeers, we're flat out telling you that they're at the heart of the increase. You're clearly upset with us and we're simply telling you that you need to be upset with the DTC because there is "nothing" that we can do about the situation. We warned people about the coming increases and don't think for a moment that we didn't take some heat for that because we did.

Gasoline, diamonds, real estate, the concept is the same... Do you own a gas station? We don't, but we imagine that those contracts have something in them that enables the powers that be to increase the price per gallon to the dealers in reflection to the daily cost of crude. Our agreements with the cutters require a certain annual volume and the price certainly isn't locked down to the price per carat on the day that we enter into the contracts... Have you ever noticed how most of our competitors have L color, SI-2 clarity stones in their inventory when we don't? Or how we always seem to have 1.20 - 1.49 carat stones when nobody else does? Do you think that's by accident? Distribution contracts, we can't go into detail but you're welcome to let your mind wander on the concept and you might figure out why the price is FIRM after the increase - everything in this business has a double edge, you can either take everything that they insist you take and figure out how to justify selling it or you can pick from the best of the best, guarantee to sell so much of it per year and allow the cutters to benefit from the increase in some fashion.

We don't see that we expressed an attitude in our first post as much as we were just blunt about the reality of the situation. We'll be the first to say that it sucks, but soft peddling the reality of the price increases won't do anybody any good in the long run. Diamond prices went up and there is every indication that they will continue to go up and when prices increase, the selling cost of those diamonds increase and they don't tend to come back down. We wrote FIRM in upper capital letters because we want people to realize that the increase is REAL and not something that the dealers are implimenting because this is imposed by the DTC not any particular dealer and thus we're saying "you're not going to be able to negotiate a better price when prices go up so don't hold out thinking that you're going to be able to" and we suppose that we wrote it that way because of the reaction of the fellow who found himself paying a thousand dollars more for "the same thing" two weeks later because he spent hours, literally hours, trying to negotiate a better price with us because he thought that we had the power to bring the price back down... At one point he actually said "you're doing this to punish me for not buying the first stone, right?" and the reality is that the new diamond was bought at new prices and thus the increase is irrecoverable, there is NOTHING that any of us can do about it, the prices are FIRM, ya-da-ya-da-ya-da. Get it?

 

[Dancing Fire]

strmrdr,
you still don't get it. what R/T telling you is 100% true. even though i'm not in the business, i understand what they're saying. the vendors don't want the prices of diamonds to go up, it doesn't do them any good. just think- for the same quality of inventory they're carrying today, it cost them a lot more than it would have 8 months ago. let me ask you this, if R/T spent $200K yesterday buying stones for their inventory, and the diamond market crashes today, are you going be there to bail them out of their inventory? so what i'am saying if diamond prices go up, they deserve to make money on their inventory. they are tying up a lot of dollars.i'am sure vendors would love to able to buy F vs1 2 ct for 10k and sell it for $11,500 all day long, right now the diamond business is so competitive, profit of margin is a lot lower these days. it's just like trading bullion. you put up $10,000 and you are lucky to make a $100 profit.i'm not saying diamond is that low of a profit margin compared to bullion, but just an example.

 

[strmrdr]

Oh I get it all too well. :}
Just dont like it.

Im not getting into a pissing contest with niceice over this because I like them and we arent going to agree on it.
I had my say and they have had theirs.

 

[wanderlost]

Storm....

If you are selling a product, any product, and the price goes up from your supplier such that your prices are less than those that you can replace the goods in your inventory at..... are you going to adjust accordingly so that you can maintain an inventory without posting a net loss?

This is (from what I understand) the situation that DeBeers (and the other diamond rough suppliers, many of whom have agreements in place with DeBeers) that is occuring now in the diamond trade. Here, the supplier, DeBeers, has their buyers in much the same situation that WalMart has its suppliers.... that is.... up against a wall. WalMart/DeBeers says.... we're going to decrease how much we pay you/we're going to increase how much our product costs..... and there's nothing much to be done about it except make the proper adjustments that allow you to stay in business.


One last example. If you owned a drug store in the 1950s.... and still owned it today.... and back in the back (where you had forgotten about it), there was 4 or 5 boxes of 1956 Topps Baseball cards that you purchased from your supplier in 1956 at $3.00 a box.... would you force yourself to sell them at the MSRP of $0.10 a pack (taking your 'allowed' profits from this transaction), or would you put them up at auction where each box would fetch upwards of $45k?

If you wanted to continue maintaining your inventory of 1956 Topps baseball card boxes... you'd have to contact a supplier (and tell me the name of them!) to have another box shipped to you at YOUR cost of ~$45k+... would you rather be even on the maintenence cost (buy/sell at $45k with a small markup?) or be -$44997 for the month?

 

[niceice]

Make no mistake that we think that Strmrdr has some valid points and we always enjoy a good debate so no offense is taken and no defense of our position is required. Strmrdr knows all too well that we firmly believe that a thread has little worth if it doesn't cause people to think and to question authority (and it would be boring). How else will things be improved and change? This one is just frustrating because we're scr---d by the present situation in the market and we're in a position where all we can do about it is to negotiate every diamond that we purchase as hard as we can but it's a sellers market and the real sellers are the cutters and they too find themselves in some pretty interesting distribution contracts where the slightest objection voiced could leave them out in the cold with no diamonds to distribute... The DTC sliced the jugulars of about 50 sight holders just this past year and the companies affected were devastated financially because there is very little diamond rough that was not already spoken for... We've received several very nice telephone calls from competitors today expressing their condolences that we find ourselves amidst this thread, but that is neither here nor there... The reality is that we're all in the same situation and there is really nothing that any one of us can do about it without affecting our supply... Don't we wish that we found ourselves with a hoard of diamonds sitting in our vault that were bought five years ago and that we could release them into the open market now and make a killing, the reality however is that we don't know very many people with that kind of disposable income where they can tie up millions of dollars worth of diamonds for long periods of time so as to turn an investment type of profit from them... The DTC can do it, that's true, but everybody who we know needs to flip those puppies pretty quick to keep the wheels of commerce moving, we like the baseball card analogy, but unfortunately these little guys cost thousands of dollars from the get-go as opposed to 0.49 cents or whatever baseball cards used to sell for

By the way, we've already rejected five out of the 16 diamonds that we received for evaluation today with 7 more to look at tomorrow... Three of the supposed "ideal cuts" were AGS-1 in proportions due to the crown angles being a little shallow, the two carat SI-1 wasn't "eye clean" and the Internally Flawless wasn't... Man are we going to get our tail ends chewed by the cutter on Monday for not "learning to be more accepting of things when diamonds are so scarce" which seems to be the mantra of the moment that we're supposed to be brainwashed by. Prices may be changing, we have no control over that, but we still have control over what we represent and what we don't because we take the time to take a look at it.

 

[elmo]

----------------
On 8/13/2004 12:23:38 AM glitterata wrote:

Why CAN debeers raise prices? Why don't consumers say 'Hell with it, I'm getting a sapphire instead!'?
----------------

Right on, glitterata. As long as folks will keep buying diamonds while the price is increasing, the increases will continue. Buying a fine sapphire sounds like a great way to tell DeBeers to go to heck.

 

[elmo65]

Elmo!

How much less is a fine sapphire? I am thinking that it is still pretty high.... Like the name, by the by....

 

[aljdewey]

It is ridiculous to think that R/T or any of the vendors here have nothing better to do than "screw us", "take advantage of us", or any other similar sentiment.




I was STUNNED when NiceIce first mentioned last winter that the price increases were coming.....and I developed instant respect for their candor. People who are trying to "screw" others don't warn them in advance that prices will be going up. If they wanted to screw you, it would be much easier to withhold the information and wait for you to purchase when the prices go up.




But, those of you who see the world from a skeptical point of view said to yourselves "Ohhhhhhhhhh, *I* get it! That's just a PLOY to get me to buy now." (FYI.....NONE of these vendors need to trick people into buying now. I can't tell you how many times I've looked at a stone, and then the next minute it's gone. These folks turn their inventory very well, so they don't really need to incite fear to help them turn it faster.)




Then.......in the eternal words of Gomer Pyle........."well, su-prise, su-prise!".......it wasn't a ploy. The increase was real, and now you're ticked because you didn't take the early advice seriously.




Now, in your eyes, blame MUST be assigned, but since you don't know a darned thing about the industry or how it works, there is only one person to blame - the VENDOR.




As a consumer, I don't especially like the price increase either, but I simply don't see this as being the vendors' faults. Then again, I'm not a huge believer in the "Oliver Stone--grassy knoll" conspiracy either.




Sheesh!

 

[elmo]

Agreed Al, I don't think it's reasonable to hold price increases against retailers. It's just business. In a stong seller's market though I expect that at some point it will be possible for a consumer to pay too much if they have their mind set on something specific - some segments will be better buys than others, and speculation in a few cases will push the price beyond (or the discount less) than where it settles at. A good consumer's resource like pricescope may help someone figure out what sizes and colors make for a better buy. But what do I know, I have a miniscule fraction of the experience that R&T have with this.

Hey elmo65

, last I looked fine Sri Lankan or Madagascar sapphire under 5 carats can be had $2000-4000 per carat.

 

[strmrdr]

Iv been thinking about this thread.
I was just going to leave it alone but....
I threw way too big a fireball in niceice's lap and for that Im sorry.
The vendors are a last step in the chain before the consumers in a industry that for all its "words" on serving the people is set up in such a way to not give them a fair chance.
The dealers are going to take a lot of heat and its going to get worse as more consumers get educated about diamonds and the industry.

Niceice are good people in a bad business and are some of the best people in the business in my opinion.

Im kinda torn on it, while im not sorry that I threw a fireball at the industry I am sorry about who I threw it at. If that makes sence.

If your in the market for a diamond I recommend that you check out niceice and if they have the product at a price that your willing to pay they will take good care of you.
Like it or not you can count on them telling you the way they see it.
I for one like that :}

 

[WinkHPD]

----------------
On 8/14/2004 12:19:50 PM strmrdr wrote:


Niceice are good people in a bad business and are some of the best people in the business in my opinion.

Im kinda torn on it, while im not sorry that I threw a fireball at the industry I am sorry about who I threw it at. If that makes sence.----------------

I will not dissapoint you by not responding to the charge that I too am in a bad business.

I am NOT!

I am in a business where my primary objective is to make people happy and to do so in a way that I am fairly compensated for my dedication. I love my business, and I especially love it when every thing comes together and my clients are happy and excited about what has been done.

That is just about the best business a guy can be in, doing something he loves and having his clients be happy because of his efforts.

My business brings joy to millions of men and women. It is a great business and I am proud to be a part of it.

Wink

 

[niceice]

----------------
On 8/14/2004 2:10:14 PM Wink wrote:

----------------
On 8/14/2004 12:19:50 PM strmrdr wrote:


Niceice are good people in a bad business and are some of the best people in the business in my opinion.----------------

Thanks, but like Wink, we love the business that we're in most of the time... Look, we're not happy about these price increases, not happy about them at all and as has been mentioned so many times, we "really" did try to give people the head's up about this... The control issues aside, we LOVE the fact that we spend most of our day making people happy! We've developed a loyal clientele who refer a lot of their friends and co-workers to us on a regular basis because it was obvious to them that we love what we do from the moment that they opened the box! We're not saying that there aren't days when things go wrong and we want to bang our heads on the wall... That was yesterday - and it wasn't because of this thread, but rather because we found ourselves trying to resist the temptation to drag one of our bench jewelers behind our car at high speeds over uneven terrain because he lost focus on a project that was very important to us in terms of pleasing a client and he destroyed a mounting

and we're telling you this because we think that it's important for people to know that we have those days too, we just take care of it when we do

But most days are wonderful filled with really fun telephone calls from like minded clients who had a great time getting lost in the ramblings of our site and more calls from people who just loved their diamond! It really doesn't get much better than that... We've had our chance to get out and retire quite a few times, the last offer on the table was significantly tempting, but we're hooked and aren't looking to get out any time soon... We love you guys and believe it or not, we enjoy the banter even when it's a bit hot so "No harm, No foul" Strmrdr, we know that it was all in frustration...

Now, do we think that this price increase is B.S.? Yes.

Do we think that it is being falsely imposed by the DTC? Yes.
Is there anything that we can do about it? Not without putting ourselves out of business.

Is there a reason why the powers that be at the DTC can't set foot on U.S. Soil without fear of being arrested for violating our racketeering laws. Yes.

Would it matter to them if "you" stopped buying diamonds and started buying colored stones... Honestly, probably not unless it was on a "really" big scale, but we kind of think that they've got their fingers pretty deep into that market as well... And into a whole bunch of other markets as well... We don't have the article at our fingertips, but Forbes ran a piece last year on the guy who is in charge of the Russion distribution and he owns something like 150 U.S. gas stations, an equally impressive number of 711 stores and a bunch of hotels. These guys are the bank and we're the chumps... They know that (most) women are always going to want a diamond on their engagement ring because they've created that expectation by spending billions, yes billions, of dollars worth of advertising to make it that way...

We're kicking and screaming to fight the price increase every step of the way... It's driving our suppliers bonkers because we're spending most of the day hammering them for better prices and they're crying the same sad song that we are and we're accusing them of the same things that we're being accused of as front line vendors and they're taking that message back to the DTC, Rio Tinto, Lesotho and Alrosa but it doesn't seem that they're listening... Keep in mind that the average diamond consumer is not near as educated or in tune to our world as the people here on PS - most of them are never going to consider the actual price of the diamond that they are purchasing - they're only considered with whether it is going to cost them $19.95 a month or $29.95 per month for the rest of their lives and they make up 94% of the current market and so the DTC is singing the praises of "look what we've done for you, the market is up, up, up" and that just encourages them to increase the prices more... But remember, the reason why this is such a sudden shock is because the DTC is implimenting several years of mark-up's not taken over the course of a single year as opposed to inching them up gradually throughout the year for the past few years - they didn't impose any increases following the events of 9/11 and are making it up now double time so we're all feeling it more. We're not excusing the practice, just explaining it the way we see it.

 

[elmo]

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On 8/14/2004 3:21:12 PM niceice wrote:


Would it matter to them if 'you' stopped buying diamonds and started buying colored stones... Honestly, probably not unless it was on a 'really' big scale, but we kind of think that they've got their fingers pretty deep into that market as well.
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I just wanted to clarify - my comment earlier wasn't so much saying to not buy diamonds in order to make a difference to 'them'. I was really saying that if you have a choice, the smarter money may be to be selective with what you buy and when you buy it. If pricing in the diamond market is quite volatile with a strong upward trend, and you want a piece of jewelry now, and the size/color stone you want is 30% more than it was two years ago (2.5ct ideal RB D/E-VVS?), maybe something in a different category or an alternative like sapphire is a better buy at the moment. Or even something like tsavorite or tanzanite that I thought was trading at significantly lower prices than several years ago.

 

[WinkHPD]

Hehe! If you are looking for stable prices, don't look at the Tanzanite market as an example. Prices there are up higher and quicker than diamonds...

Wink