Cut score on Enchanted Diamonds website

[JoshuaNiamehr]

Paul - you have my email - you can email me examples of stones I cant sell - please do email me so we can clarify this issue. Quite frankly I have no idea what you are talking about - most importantly - I was under the impression you cut your own stones so I have no idea how this can be. Please email me directly or I will call and email you until this resolved/clarified/disproved. Until such your allegations are only allegations with no merit and as far as I am concerned its merely slander and libel per se.

In fact - after I post this, expect an email in your inbox - lets put the facts on the table if there are any - Im happy to address them if there are any.

It is a fact that the 'freely available' cut-score of ED directs to the same diamond in their listings. While I see this as a violation of long-established trade-rules, it goes further than this.

Again these long established trade rules - can you send me a copy as I have no idea what you are talking about and how they benefit consumers - I made no oath to help protect your/anyones margins (@Serg seems to believe this is why folks hold contempt and not the cut score).

@Serg as you can see - competitors do have problems with our "magic black box."

@Paul your baseless, meritless and quite frankly ignorant qualms with our cut score are pale in comparison to your claim on the "future value of diamonds" that you make on your website - what facts are these based on?

The challenges you speak of are controlled and uncompetitive - my revolutionary idea is to put your diamonds against mine and other vendors who accept the challenge - conducted by independent surveyors following a scientific method. Not a B&M store showing your diamonds versus any old diamond. This is what Im inviting you to.

Please be on the lookout for my email and follow up call.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Paul is bringing up some crucial points, and I concur.
We should make it clear that there's two main classes of internet websites selling diamonds.
In one case, the site acts as a portal to sell diamonds off a list. Such sites possess NO diamonds, and never buy diamonds for the purpose of holding them for inventory.
Sites like these will not necessarily be able to obtain all the diamonds on the lists they publish.
I can verify what Paul is saying in this regard.
On many occasions a cutter has approached me with a diamond they want to sell.
I simply input the GIA number into a google search to see if the diamond is being offered online.
Lo and behold, there's times that I find the stone which I am holding in my hands, and show the cutter that it's begin offered for a tiny percentage over their selling price.
In pretty much every occasion the cutter is shocked, and has no idea who the site is.
Just last week it happened- the cutter was stunned to see the stone listed,and the price it was listed for.
He told me point blank he'd never give the stone to the site offering it as he'd never heard of them.
The fact is the list which is published is populated by many cutters - some of whom are incredibly discriminating about who they will give a diamond to.
So, the good news for consumers for whom price is the main consideration is that they may be able to find certain stones at very low prices- but for that to happen the site selling it has to be able to obtain it.
I have seen countless threads where a consumer has paid for a stone only to be told it's not available- only to be offered another stone, which of course is a higher price.

The other type of site- which is exceedingly rare- actually owns the diamonds they are offering. Such sites can offer a far greater level of service compared to the portal type of sites.

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

@RockDiamond I was going to email you privately about this but since you brought it up:



You concur with Paul but advertise similar services on your website?

Also I thought you own all the diamonds - so how would they be listed on my site for sale? Its baffling and inconsistent with what you have said in previous posts and representations of how you operate. So indeed you are a broker for cutters?

And @Paul one of your executives recommends on his site PDA a website with virtual inventory... So Im confused here why am I being singled out again? They even assign fancy shapes cut grades not assigned by GIA.

And @Paul once again - if CBI is cutting its own stones how or why would their be suppliers involved etc? Im so confused... But the email I just sent over should clarify all this. I also tried calling your belgium number but I assume you're out of the office enjoying your weekend - I hope you're having lovely weather out there.

@RockDiamond you may be dealing with unsophisticated polishers who dont know how to use their trading platforms and the permissions you may want to give them a tutorial on how to control who can list/access/publish their diamonds - its very simple. Ive also never met a cutter who wouldnt take my $ - so they might just be playing dumb?

I still dont understand how owning inventory = great service.

 

[Ella]

Gentlemen, this is not a place for pissing matches about whose customer service/diamond selling model/website is better.

Clarifying things that may be misrepresented is fine and is why this thread has remained for now, but the latest types of posts won't be tolerated.

Take it offline.

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

Gentlemen, this is not a place for pissing matches about whose customer service/diamond selling model/website is better.

Clarifying things that may be misrepresented is fine and is why this thread has remained for now, but the latest types of posts won't be tolerated.

Take it offline.

I concur - I have emailed all of gentleman in response to their recent posts in order to protect their reputations as well as to help them from further exposure to slander and libel. Thank you Ella for stepping in here.

 

[Rockdiamond]

@RockDiamond I was going to email you privately about this but since you brought it up:



You concur with Paul but advertise similar services on your website?

Also I thought you own all the diamonds - so how would they be listed on my site for sale? Its baffling and inconsistent with what you have said in previous posts and representations of how you operate. So indeed you are a broker for cutters?

And @Paul one of your executives recommends on his site PDA a website with virtual inventory... So Im confused here why am I being singled out again? They even assign fancy shapes cut grades not assigned by GIA.

And @Paul once again - if CBI is cutting its own stones how or why would their be suppliers involved etc? Im so confused... But the email I just sent over should clarify all this.

HI Joshua,
The reason is that sites that own the diamonds have strong relationships with the cutters- many of whom populate Rapnet- and the other services upon which the portal sites draw their stones.
For that reason such sites can obtain a far higher percentage of stones listed on sites using the portal than the the portal sites themselves can.
This means that in many cases a consumer can find a stone on one of the portal sites, and give us the stats- and we can obtain that very diamond. We've done that on many occasions.
The cutter will prefer to sell the diamond to a company that holds inventory as opposed to one that simply publishes lists. The largest internet diamond selling sites fall into the list category.
This is nothing personal Joshua.
If the subject had not come up here on PS, there'd be no need to have this sort of discussion.
But I have devoted a lot of time to consumer education, a fair percentage of it here to help consumers wade through the muck of internet diamond shopping.
Here's why it matters:
Thursday a potential client came up.
She informed me she was ready to send the money to a company for a 3ct diamond, priced under $10k.
The seller had told her they had that diamond in hand, and that it was a great looking stone. The also told her that they had more than a dozen 3ct diamonds priced under $10k in hand, and all were GIA graded.

She showed me the GIA report for the diamond, which I found. It was NOT in the hands of that seller- and in fact the seller offering it is one who could not have obtained that diamond. I know the cutter, and they won't send it to that seller ( I confirmed this)
I am NOT trying to "steal" this sale - I have no attachment to trying to sell that lady a 3ct for under $10k - or anything.
I would love it if she buys from us, but I don't think she's looking in the right direction, based on the demographics of what she wants, and is ready to spend.
3ct diamonds for $10k are that price for a reason.
She wants a decent looking stone, I recommend she keep her budget and compromise on size.
Point is if consumers are fed a line of bull they end up disappointed.
This site goes a long way to dispelling the myths.
Again, nothing against you or your company, we are discussing the way diamonds are sold today.
All the best

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

@RockDiamond I was going to email you privately about this but since you brought it up:



You concur with Paul but advertise similar services on your website?

Also I thought you own all the diamonds - so how would they be listed on my site for sale? Its baffling and inconsistent with what you have said in previous posts and representations of how you operate. So indeed you are a broker for cutters?

And @Paul one of your executives recommends on his site PDA a website with virtual inventory... So Im confused here why am I being singled out again? They even assign fancy shapes cut grades not assigned by GIA.

And @Paul once again - if CBI is cutting its own stones how or why would their be suppliers involved etc? Im so confused... But the email I just sent over should clarify all this.

HI Joshua,
The reason is that sites that own the diamonds have strong relationships with the cutters- many of whom populate Rapnet- and the other services upon which the portal sites draw their stones.
For that reason such sites can obtain a far higher percentage of stones listed on sites using the portal than the the portal sites themselves can.
This means that in many cases a consumer can find a stone on one of the portal sites, and give us the stats- and we can obtain that very diamond. We've done that on many occasions.
The cutter will prefer to sell the diamond to a company that holds inventory as opposed to one that simply publishes lists. The largest internet diamond selling sites fall into the list category.
This is nothing personal Joshua.
If the subject had not come up here on PS, there'd be no need to have this sort of discussion.
But I have devoted a lot of time to consumer education, a fair percentage of it here to help consumers wade through the muck of internet diamond shopping.
Here's why it matters:
Thursday a potential client came up.
She informed me she was ready to send the money to a company for a 3ct diamond, priced under $10k.
The seller had told her they had that diamond in hand, and that it was a great looking stone. The also told her that they had more than a dozen 3ct diamonds priced under $10k in hand, and all were GIA graded.

She showed me the GIA report for the diamond, which I found. It was NOT in the hands of that seller- and in fact the seller offering it is one who could not have obtained that diamond. I know the cutter, and they won't send it to that seller ( I confirmed this)
I am NOT trying to "steal" this sale - I have no attachment to trying to sell that lady a 3ct for under $10k - or anything.
I would love it if she buys from us, but I don't think she's looking in the right direction, based on the demographics of what she wants, and is ready to spend.
3ct diamonds for $10k are that price for a reason.
She wants a decent looking stone, I recommend she keep her budget and compromise on size.
Point is if consumers are fed a line of bull they end up disappointed.
This site goes a long way to dispelling the myths.
Again, nothing against you or your company, we are discussing the way diamonds are sold today.
All the best

Again David - you likely buy on memo / consignment - you say sellers rather sell to you versus me? This is the definition of a meritless assertion based on -0- facts. What you say is merely an opinion.

What fact or evidence is this based on?

Asserting that I dont have strong relationships with cutters is also patently false - 4 generations into this business, my father being a former arbitrator at the Diamond Dealers Club of NY and having direct lines to pretty much every large siteholder/polisher discredits that. My Great-Grandmother was a diamond broker in Tehran and was referred to as "Chanum Dalall" which translates to Madamme Broker - Jews and Muslims alike entrusted her with their diamonds and held her with reverence. She was one of the only women of her time to be conducting business. Im proud to carry her torch.

The rest of your post re: 3ct for 10k - I have no idea who that is, how that has to do with our practices or why its being brought up in this thread - and cash in hand I know no diamond dealer who would choose your memo/consignment over another dealers cash in hand.

If folks say they have the diamond IN HAND they better have it in hand - but we make no such representations - so again, what does this have to do with us or our cut score?

Meritless, baseless claims, disparagement, libel and slander will be responded to and answered on a factual basis - I dont understand how your post (most of them in fact) have got anything to do with anything.

Bottom line is you are discouraging/scaring folks from virtual inventory - this sites diamond search AND so many of the prosumers regularly recommend virtual inventory diamonds and in-house. And you even have a giant sign on your landing page saying "hey we can get you those too" - you dont see the hypocrisy in that?

And every vendor who has commented on this thread should take a look at the PS diamond search:





PS supports both virtual and in-house. Scaring consumers into only buying in-house puts you at odds with both the community and the PS tools built to help consumers.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Josua,
I have not mentioned your site in any way during these last exchanges.
I am speaking of the way diamonds are currently sold, and relating it to how it impacts consumers.
You are bringing my business into this- and I have nothing to be ashamed of in any way.

Again David - you likely buy on memo / consignment - you say sellers rather sell to you versus me? This is the definition of a meritless assertion based on -0- facts. What you say is merely an opinion.

Again David - you likely buy on memo / consignment - you say sellers rather sell to you versus me? This is the definition of a meritless assertion based on -0- facts. What you say is merely an opinion.

Again, I never mentioned you or your site specifically.
You have brought our business up.
We do have access to massive amounts of goods on consignment, and we sometimes do take advantage of that- but we will have the items here in that case.
Still, the vast majority of items on our site have been purchased by our company outright.

I also pointed out that Virtual sites- including the offerings on the PS database- will have the lowest prices.
The discussion morphed into a discussion of trading practices overall.
Many consumers love the Virtual selection.
Many love the advantages other types of models offer.

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

@RockDiamond

The other type of site- which is exceedingly rare- actually owns the diamonds they are offering. Such sites can offer a far greater level of service compared to the portal type of sites.

You might not be referring to me directly in the post - but you are propping yourself up and putting others down by making blanket statements such as that one. But also hypocritically advertising other models on your site... Flip flopping won't work here - I went undefeated throughout my debate team career lol - I would have gone into law if I didnt love what I do and being an entrepreneur - and the fact that I have a family full of lawyers on my mothers side and a few on my fathers... I figured that I'd stick to doing what I love rather than chase a piece of paper that makes me a pro-debater and leave that to the family members who arent in the diamond business.

Further, you have brought my company up many many many times in this forum and others in a seemingly inconsistent fashion much like your posts in general but certainly when it comes to myself and my company.

Also please excuse grammatical errors, incomplete sentences,tenses - I dont ever spell check or proof read and I am usually bust multi-tasking - aint got enough time in the day - if only there were a way to give me a 32 hour day.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Joshua
Although I have participated in discussion like this one, where consumers have had questions about your cut score, I have never initiated any discussion about your company. Please feel free to check this instead of making unfounded accusations.
My position on cut scores which are issued by companies that do not have the diamonds in front of them has been very consistent. That is: it is impossible to judge the cut of a diamond if you are not looking at the diamond personally.

Furthermore, I have never done something like cut and paste images from your website.
As far as trying to "prop up my company" – you open the door by specifically mentioning us.
My comments about virtual diamonds are made in a general sense, never mentioning your company.
The same can be said about my comments regarding companies that actually own diamonds. Other dealers participating in this very thread also fit into that category.

A lot of us have had some intensive practice in debating after spending as many years we have on the site Joshua

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

Hi Joshua
Although I have participated in discussion like this one, where consumers have had questions about your cut score, I have never initiated any discussion about your company. Please feel free to check this instead of making unfounded accusations.
My position on cut scores which are issued by companies that do not have the diamonds in front of them has been very consistent. That is: it is impossible to judge the cut of a diamond if you are not looking at the diamond personally.

Furthermore, I have never done something like cut and paste images from your website.
As far as trying to "prop up my company" – you open the door by specifically mentioning us.
My comments about virtual diamonds are made in a general sense, never mentioning your company.
The same can be said about my comments regarding companies that actually own diamonds. Other dealers participating in this very thread also fit into that category.

A lot of us have had some intensive practice in debating after spending as many years we have on the site Joshua

@RockDiamond

Unfounded accusations? You didnt initiate or facilitate the discussion and defamation? I said you brought up our company aka participated in threads involving our cut score and defaming our company simply because you dont know how it works - no basis of fact behind any of it and in my understanding in violation of the forum policies.

Hi Lauren,
You have peaked my interest- where did you enter the info that gave you a "mediocre" rating?

This thread has been edited and moderated to the extent that @Paul-Antwerp's original post and one of the earliest replies is now missing - but you jumped in and agreed further:

Really good point Paul.
There's a misunderstanding about what a "virtual" diamond is.
Due to the methodology of data sharing, many of the diamonds listed on virtual sites are not available when a consumer tries to buy them- like the stone you're holding in your hand, but it's still available on many internet websites.
When a consumer tries to buy that stone, they will inevitably get a message saying the stone is no longer available, and they may have even paid for it already.
Rarely a week goes by that we don;t see a consumer complain about this on Pricescope.

BTW- if you picked it, I'm sure it's an awesome stone!

Thank you for explaining you point Paul!
We're in total agreement that the practice positively sucks.
In some respects the problem comes from the root- the cutter or owner of the stone who allows that first stone to be "fed" to anyone who wants to put the rappaort feed on their diamond selling website. The owner can prevent that.
Also agreed that the practice truly harms legitimate diamond sellers- and consumers.

You've stated numerous times that our business practices (as have other vendors that participated in this thread as well as an independent appraiser) harm consumers which is baseless and patently false. You know it to be false and continue to promulgate that through out this thread in which according to forum rules you have no basis to participate in. This is clearly scare tactics (against forum rules), libel, slander and defamation as it has no basis of fact.

@Paul-Antwerp went as far as defaming/slandering my character:

So Joshua, please take a deep breath, stop shooting at whomever moves, and consider your place in a tradition of four generations. Do you really want to scandal your forefathers by blatantly ditching professional etiquette as well as trade-regulations, or do you not care?

What trade regulations am I violating? Is there a trade regulation that says we must milk our customers for every penny? That we should make false representations? Use marketing and scare tactics to bait consumers into grossly overpaying for commodities?

To say I am violating trade regulations IS LIBEL. You have no basis, you have no right and you have no claim to make statements as such.

Again, I am here as a humble servant to the consumer, I violate no laws - and am guided by my own strongly rooted ethics and morals. You have previously given me "fatherly advice."

...

- Specifically, on this situation of certain of your suppliers offering diamonds for sale which are not technically theirs or under their full control, this is a major problem to address. PS as a community is extremely sensitive to bait-and-switch-tactics, and if you do not urgently find a system to solve this problem, this is going to hurt your reputation.

You continue to make these false claims and allegations over and over and over again, meritless and fruitless. Now I email you, call you to get to the bottom of these purported claims but am ignored.

And no thank you for the fatherly advice - I have a father - a wise man - a respected man - a man whom other jewelers, casters and setters nicknamed Mr. Winston. LOL - I man who taught me everything I know about the diamond business and jewelry manufacturing - a man who has been doing this for almost 50 years. A man that invested in my ethics and taught me philosophy. A man that has reinvented himself with the times that has an upstanding reputation and shoes that I may never fill (he helped hundreds of refugees with their paperwork to get into the US) a man that needs no introduction, a man that people grasp my hand and say "this is your father, your father is the one who taught me everything I know about this business" or "I dont think I would have a home over my head if it werent for your father."

A father who taught me to stand up for what I believe in - to never bow down to the status quo, to stand my ground and to do the right thing. To never compromise on quality on integrity. And to take **** from no one when its unfounded, and to listen and learn when you don't know the answer.

As trade members if you dont like our cut score - tough - get over it. Stop defaming/slandering us baselessly because your sales might be hurting and you see us as the cause. @Serg is likely correct - this has nothing to do with our cut score - this has more to do with our pricing.

As consumers you are free to ask questions and we'll be happy to answer them

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Joshua,

I have no interest in ‘going private’ now that you want to.

Regarding ethics: On PS it would never be accepted for you to go into a thread, give your own cut-score to another vendor's diamond and direct the consumer to the same diamond on your site. Yet you do this outside PS while advertising your cut-score as a "service." If such practice will be considered unethical here on PS, how can it be ethical elsewhere? To me, this contributes to why PS rejects your company as an advertiser.

Regarding bait and switch: I believe your website lists diamonds you cannot access, padding your inventory. Over the past months three separate suppliers have contacted me, explaining you list their goods for sale (sometimes at inexplicably low pricing) while they have no relationship with you, nor any intent of selling through you. You have no permission to advertise those diamonds. What possible reason exists for you advertising diamonds-for-sale you do not have and cannot get, unless it is classic bait-and-switch?

You stated before you felt like a "leper" here. Consider that the core value of this website is consumer protection.

Also consider that I have a history of 17 years on diamond-consumer-forums which even predates Pricescope. During that period I have built a solid reputation. When I engage on the issues above I do not enter into this lightly, risking to ruin a reputation which took so long to build.

So let us start with a simple question: “Have you ever published any diamond for-sale, without explicit permission from the owner to publish it?” Please answer yes or no.

Live long,

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Regarding all the side-notes you bring up, it is excellent misdirection Joshua. With your debate background you know such strategy is used to distract from a weak position.

I cannot possibly address all the chaff you eject, but here are specific corrections:

• Yes, CBI crafts every diamond sold in our brand. If you are mystified that Antwerp producers like us also conduct secondary business, I cannot help you.
• Our Future Value proposition is based on our brand’s specific standards, and the fact that cut-grading has tightened over the past 30 years, and will continue to do so.

When a consumer is spending thousands on a diamond, QUALITY and VALUE are front-and-center to me, for more than 15 years and through countless “comparisons”.

You challenge Future Value in trying to distract from the true topic. Ok. Let us blow the chaff away: Are you willing here and now, to start offering all of your clients both 100% unrestricted trade-up (no need for them to double purchase price) and extend an additional lifetime 80% ‘emergency’ cash buyback on any diamond your company has sold or will sell? That is the Future Value proposition I ensure, which retailers selling our brand may extend to CBI-owners. You questioned me on this specifically. Now I question you.

Simply asked: Will Enchanted Diamonds immediately offer these same Future Value guarantees to all customers for every diamond you sell?

Live long,

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

Joshua,

I have no interest in ‘going private’ now that you want to.

I think its the moderators that asked us to go private - to which I obliged at their behest but if you would like to continue to slander my company and myself publicly - I will respond to you

Regarding ethics: On PS it would never be accepted for you to go into a thread, give your own cut-score to another vendor's diamond and direct the consumer to the same diamond on your site. Yet you do this outside PS while advertising your cut-score as a "service." If such practice will be considered unethical here on PS, how can it be ethical elsewhere? To me, this contributes to why PS rejects your company as an advertiser.

Again, how is being competitive and using technology to be competitive - unethical. Uber vs Lyft, Microsoft vs Mac, the cart industry vs Tesla - competition benefits society and pushes us forward. I have no idea what you are saying by bringing up our advertiser status and us being unethical? What are you implying? Pricescope diamond search has HCA scores for some listings, and the same virtual inventory pinned against each other. Is that unethical? What on earth are you talking about?

Regarding bait and switch: I believe your website lists diamonds you cannot access, padding your inventory. Over the past months three separate suppliers have contacted me, explaining you list their goods for sale (sometimes at inexplicably low pricing) while they have no relationship with you, nor any intent of selling through you. You have no permission to advertise those diamonds. What possible reason exists for you advertising diamonds-for-sale you do not have and cannot get, unless it is classic bait-and-switch?

Again, this is false - Ive asked you to show me an instance of this or a single scenario, I have emailed you and called you, you are making unfound allegations and refusing to prove them. Again WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

You stated before you felt like a "leper" here. Consider that the core value of this website is consumer protection.

@serg made it clear Im a leper because of my pricing - I concur with him - I am a leper to vendors not with consumers - future value - is that how we protect consumers?

Also consider that I have a history of 17 years on diamond-consumer-forums which even predates Pricescope. During that period I have built a solid reputation. When I engage on the issues above I do not enter into this lightly, risking to ruin a reputation which took so long to build.

Instead you attempt to disparage my reputation based on blatant misrepresentations

So let us start with a simple question: “Have you ever published any diamond for-sale, without explicit permission from the owner to publish it?” Please answer yes or no.

This isnt a yes or no - we publish diamonds via feeds we are subscribers to and direct feeds from polishing partners - we have explicit permission from these subscription services to list these diamonds - these owners explicitly upload their diamonds to these services for this purpose. Anytime a supplier requests us to remove them as a supplier we do so within 24-48 hours (its usually a single stone) and go through a series of validations to make sure the request is coming from management.

I ask you a question now - can you please provide me with a single example via email or this forum if allowed of an instance this has occurred?


Live long,

Would you mind send me a copy of those regulations you were referring to? I still have no idea what you're talking about - never got that memo in the mail or diamond dealer swear in ceremony? Is it only available in Belgium?

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

In short, I see you agreeing that you are listing stones you have absolutely no possibility of acquiring. Thank you for confirming my second objection to the usage of your cut-score.

Live long,

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

Regarding all the side-notes you bring up, it is excellent misdirection Joshua. With your debate background you know such strategy is used to distract from a weak position.

I cannot possibly address all the chaff you eject, but here are specific corrections:

• Yes, CBI crafts every diamond sold in our brand. If you are mystified that Antwerp producers like us also conduct secondary business, I cannot help you.
• Our Future Value proposition is based on our brand’s specific standards, and the fact that cut-grading has tightened over the past 30 years, and will continue to do so.

When a consumer is spending thousands on a diamond, QUALITY and VALUE are front-and-center to me, for more than 15 years and through countless “comparisons”.

You challenge Future Value in trying to distract from the true topic. Ok. Let us blow the chaff away: Are you willing here and now, to start offering all of your clients both 100% unrestricted trade-up (no need for them to double purchase price) and extend an additional lifetime 80% ‘emergency’ cash buyback on any diamond your company has sold or will sell? That is the Future Value proposition I ensure, which retailers selling our brand may extend to CBI-owners. You questioned me on this specifically. Now I question you.

Simply asked: Will Enchanted Diamonds immediately offer these same Future Value guarantees to all customers for every diamond you sell?

Live long,

Moderators I believe Paul is using this thread as self promotion and unfortunately I am unable to comment on specific policies and future plans (i.e. was moderated for talking about future plans for our cut score)....

If I may speak in regards to these topics then sure, Im happy to respond.

What is the future value proposition - its literally a makreting schpiel - what offer is it? If my CBI diamond goes up in price on your site will you give me 80% of the increased value?

Its literally a solid win win for you when you purchase a diamond back for 80% of the original price. I dont sell diamonds based on a future value, I base prices on the spot market. Not a unsubstantiated, unpredictable claim such as future value.

Diamonds are at an all time low, if they do happen to increase in price you buy a diamond back for something you have a 60~80% margin, if you do the math and go through the your inventory and sales history Id wager you that your emergency buy back fund would be a gold mine for you (good for you!!)...

Im not sure if you have insurance on that or what your exposure is on your buy back emergency fund - but if you go out of business - where is your customers insurance? If 4000 clients had an emergency do you have some insurance in place to back this policy?

If a buy one of your stones and go to "dump" the stone vs one I sell of the same nature and make, which client would have been better off?

This thread is amazing. You sir are amazing. I would love to share a laugh or two with you sometime and see how your mind works - its quite fascinating.

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

In short, I see you agreeing that you are listing stones you have absolutely no possibility of acquiring. Thank you for confirming my second objection to the usage of your cut-score.

Live long,

You're english might not be so good friend, I literally just said the exact opposite of that lol.

What on earth are you talking about? Maybe you need a nap?

You do realize there have been numerous members of the public who have come here in solidarity with me? je suis the world

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Regarding all the side-notes you bring up, it is excellent misdirection Joshua. With your debate background you know such strategy is used to distract from a weak position.

I cannot possibly address all the chaff you eject, but here are specific corrections:

• Yes, CBI crafts every diamond sold in our brand. If you are mystified that Antwerp producers like us also conduct secondary business, I cannot help you.
• Our Future Value proposition is based on our brand’s specific standards, and the fact that cut-grading has tightened over the past 30 years, and will continue to do so.

When a consumer is spending thousands on a diamond, QUALITY and VALUE are front-and-center to me, for more than 15 years and through countless “comparisons”.

You challenge Future Value in trying to distract from the true topic. Ok. Let us blow the chaff away: Are you willing here and now, to start offering all of your clients both 100% unrestricted trade-up (no need for them to double purchase price) and extend an additional lifetime 80% ‘emergency’ cash buyback on any diamond your company has sold or will sell? That is the Future Value proposition I ensure, which retailers selling our brand may extend to CBI-owners. You questioned me on this specifically. Now I question you.

Simply asked: Will Enchanted Diamonds immediately offer these same Future Value guarantees to all customers for every diamond you sell?

Live long,

Moderators I believe Paul is using this thread as self promotion and unfortunately I am unable to comment on specific policies and future plans (i.e. was moderated for talking about future plans for our cut score)....

If I may speak in regards to these topics then sure, Im happy to respond.

What is the future value proposition - its literally a makreting schpiel - what offer is it? If my CBI diamond goes up in price on your site will you give me 80% of the increased value?

Its literally a solid win win for you when you purchase a diamond back for 80% of the original price. I dont sell diamonds based on a future value, I base prices on the spot market. Not a unsubstantiated, unpredictable claim such as future value.

Diamonds are at an all time low, if they do happen to increase in price you buy a diamond back for something you have a 60~80% margin, if you do the math and go through the your inventory and sales history Id wager you that your emergency buy back fund would be a gold mine for you (good for you!!)...

Im not sure if you have insurance on that or what your exposure is on your buy back emergency fund - but if you go out of business - where is your customers insurance? If 4000 clients had an emergency do you have some insurance in place to back this policy?

If a buy one of your stones and go to "dump" the stone vs one I sell of the same nature and make, which client would have been better off?

This thread is amazing. You sir are amazing. I would love to share a laugh or two with you sometime and see how your mind works - its quite fascinating.

And a second thank you, for confirming that you see no value, current or future in what you are selling while I guarantee a future value in my sales.

Your replies have been very illuminating.

I bid you a good night, given the time-difference.

Live long,

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

And a second thank you, for confirming that you see no value, current or future in what you are selling while I guarantee a future value in my sales.

Your replies have been very illuminating.

I bid you a good night, given the time-difference.

I just said Im not allowed to comment on future plans, but sure if Im allowed to, I will...

Your replies have shown your determination to disparage me while I have to follow forum rules, libel slander etc its no holds barred for you - whatever it takes for you to promulgate your "economic theories" on diamonds.

You do know people can read right through you? I guess I was right about that nap... Goede nacht

I hope you wake up and show me a diamond I list and cant sell... Id really appreciate that

 

[Laila619]

Guys, this thread is really getting ugly.

Joshua, PS can definitely be clique-ish at times. Don't take it personally. If you don't conform, you're an outsider.

 

[teobdl]

Unless examples can be given that show that ED more likely than not consistently, illegitimately, and knowingly lists diamonds that it has no access to, then the bait-and-switch talk must end.

As the US director of CBI, John Pollard should ask Paul to publically retract his statements because if the claim is not true, it is libelous.

 

[Ella]

No one can play nicely, so this thread is closed.

 

[whitewave]

Interesting comments from the trade. I am always free to contact if you have something on your mind as it relates to our industry and the consumers we serve. Im not one for mudslinging but it seems like you guys really are worried about your margins, and customers being poached?

We can de-list diamonds at the request of the supplier. Feel free to reach out. It may be that you are purchasing through a broker and we are listing the source?

Though Im confused - I thought CBI cuts its own diamonds?

I wish everyone nothing but pride and joy in what they do. I personally do this to continue a family tradition and being part of many special moments is really my driving force - creating bespoke engagement rings is no short order and must be a labor of joy.

My measure of success is our referral rate and never our bottom or top lines. Thats how I know Im doing my job right.

We wont sacrifice integrity, quality, service or value to achieve short term profitability rather than focus and commit to providing a pro-consumer offering that establishes long term growth.

I can go on and on and on and on about what we offer the consumer over our competitors, the cut score is just one on a long list of many.

The cut score is independent of whether we can sell the diamond or not. Its an algorithm. There are many many many many diamonds consumers can purchase beyond our selection that achieve high cut scores.

Our cut score is meant for modern cuts - so antique cuts should actually not work with the cut score calculator, nor should fancy color diamonds. When a cut score is low we do state it may be an unrecognized cut.

The cut score has taste built in - AND YOU CAN COMPLETELY IGNORE IT IF YOU CHOOSE. We have always stated that its an opinion.

Regardless of such we always recommend you get an independent appraisal of any purchase of this value. It might sound like common sense but I can't even imagine how many folks never do that. This applies to internet or in-store purchases both.

The reason we came up with it was to ensure clients dont purchase "duds" from virtual inventory worldwide. We started it as an internal tool and then rolled it out to consumers. We dont drop ship anything and pay 100's of dollars in shipping - we want to be certain before we even get our hands on the diamond you purchase that its an absolute beauty.

** Removed by PSAdmin. Announcement of new feature and request for feedback are not allowed per the PS policies. **

Bottom line - we are here to help engagement ring buyers whether they purchase from us or not. I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Best regards,

Joshua Niamehr

Well, isn’t this very ironic?