Cushion seeking - Problems with "wholesaler" vs. BN

[mycatsnameis]

OK, typical newbie post but I would value any opinions (sorry for the length of the post but it's complicated - aren't they all?

)

My wife and I are looking for a cushion cut in the 2.5 - 3 range. Not looking for a bright white stone as her skin is olive toned, probably something H-J. She's in the jewelery trade (not the diamond trade however) and through some of her contacts we ended up getting referred to a diamond "wholesaler" (after a couple false starts with individuals who were clearly "bait and switch" practitioners). He's well established based on my search of his credentials and talks a very good game (only wants to show us "quality stones" etc. etc.). Did mention that he generally did not work with the public but was willing b/c she was in teh biz.

We gave him a deposit and he started searching for stones to suit our specs. Took a couple of weeks but then called to say he's got two stones coming in to show us. Gave us preliminary specs on them so we naturally went hunting on BN to see what the price range might be. Oddly, one of the stones had specs identical to a stone on BN (this is what they call "foreshadowing" in the fiction business btw).

As you might guess, the stone was identical to the one listed on BN but of course the price was dramatically inflated ($13k vs. $23k). I got a copy of the GIA cert to satisfy myself that the stones were identical and then called him on it. A lot of song and dance ensued with him claiming that his "siteholder" would not release this stone for the price quoted and that even if BN listed the stone that was no guaratee that they would be able to deliver it etc.

Incidentally the other stone he showed us turned up on DoW when I checked (although not with quite as big a discrepency - $19k vs. 25k)

So ... can anyone fill me in on how "available" stones listed on the main internet sites are? Is there any truth to the story he's now feeding us?

Any feedback would be much appreciated, he wanted us to decide on Friday, I delayed to double check my suspicions about the availability of the stones on the internet sites and he says he's got to ship them back on Monday. Btw (yes now I'm feeling like an idiot

) I believe that if we do not buy a stone from him that we will be facing charges for "shipping" and "taxes" for any stones he's brought in to show us from our deposit ...

 

[RockDoc]

This is pretty distressing to hear that one industry member would treat another industry member in this fashion.

If this person held himself to be a wholesaler, there is an inate belief that you would get "trade pricing". I would also assume that in conversations with him, he would have stated a level that would assure you of the above.

Statements even made orally, such as " I am charging you what I charge my regular wholesale customers" or "I am going to charge you "X" percentage over the cost" are reasonable representation of what you expected, and in good faith paid him a deposit, and didn''t receive, what you anticipated.

His defense MAY have possible merit, but I think it is pretty easily established if they are true. The difference in the prices asked are greater than just a slight amount apart. In this type of stone, I think the differences in the pricing "is quite a leap".

If you left the deposit, in good faith that he would comply with your expectations, and then didn''t, the right for him to deduct funds from your deposit are unquestionably unfair and improper.

I think it would certainly be reasonable that he match the pricing. If he does not, I''d ask for the return of you full deposit. Depending on the agreement you made when leaving the deposit, usually the terms of it are conditional with him providing the product or service expected by you.

Hope this helps.

Rockdoc

 

[mycatsnameis]

Thanks for the reply, it echoes much of my current sentiment. I think if the price discrepancy had been more modest I would not have made much of it, everyone has to make money and it''s worth something to have some one you can trust and go to if you run into problems later. At the moment though, I''m not feeling that trusting. The deposit did have the type of agreement you outline attached ...

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 7/24/2006 2:02:43 AM
Author: mycatsnameis
Thanks for the reply, it echoes much of my current sentiment. I think if the price discrepancy had been more modest I would not have made much of it, everyone has to make money and it''s worth something to have some one you can trust and go to if you run into problems later. At the moment though, I''m not feeling that trusting. The deposit did have the type of agreement you outline attached ...

The old phrase - "when in doubt- don''t!" I think is where you should be at this stage of things.

I hope that your deposit was small, so if he doesn''t refund it to you, that it isn''t a great loss.

Find someone you do trust. You may actually find that in this case retail may in fact cost you less than "wholesale"
( reminds me of Todd from Nice Ice''s " Ho Ho Wholesale " terminology.)

But there is a "true" wholesale price which you should have been offered, out of professional courtesy.

That is certainly the "standard" in the City of Perfect..... but only a very small portion of the diamond business knows about that city.

Rockdoc

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The only reason you''d have trouble getting the stone from Blue Nile is if this guy hangs onto it so you can''t access it. But as it is an expensive stone, he''ll likely return it. I do think it is fair for you to pay for the shipping of the stones if you decide not to buy from him. And I certainly wouldn''t buy from him as he has been very dishonest with you. Come buy from one of these vendors and you''ll get a fair price. They may not be whoelsale but their prices are a LOT less than this guy!

 

[pricescope]

Date: 7/24/2006 12:49:01 AM
Author:mycatsnameis

So ... can anyone fill me in on how ''available'' stones listed on the main internet sites are?

Mycatsnameis, welcome to the forum.

Neil (aka DenverAppraiser) wrote good summary on this subject: Why are there several dealers offering the exact same stone?

You might have problems with availability of the virtually listed stones sometimes but in most cases they are real and available. Blue Nile, for example, lists only diamonds from suppliers that aren''t listed elsewhere in the web and update the listings on a daily basis.

 

[Jas12]

I have had 2 very bad experiences with jewellers. In both cases my gut feeling was negative, and correct. The difficult part is that you have to actually start doing business with someone before you can make an accurate assessment of their honest and integrity. Good salespeople are either great actors with only one thing on their mind ($$!), or really, legitamately passionate about their trade and therfore take pride in delivering a good service. For the average person, it is hard to distinguish between the two until you start putting money on the table, or research like crazy like you are doing.

My advice: trust your gut early in the game, and don''t be shy with questions etc. I was uncomfortable challenging my jeweller''s statements, but if I hadn''t I would have settled, overpaid, and had general dissatisfaction with the purchase. I learned the hard way, and believe me, I feel your confusion and frustratation!

P.S. I am now working with a recommended vendor (Mark T.-->he''s known to find great cushions) and he has been great. Listen to his interview on the PS home page.

 

[Beacon]

Look at your stone again on BN. If your dealer has it in his hands, the stone will say "call for availablity" under the "shipping info" on the page that gives the info on your stone.

BN suppliers are obligated to sell thru BN only for internet sales, but they can send out a stone listed on BN to someone who got to the supplier w/o BN.

If you tried to buy this same stone through BN and it is with your guy, it will be the "call for availablity" and would not be available to you thru BN until it gets sent back to the supplier. BN would be very upfront about this if you call to ask them.

That is probably why the dealer is saying BN wouldn''t sell it to you.

 

[mycatsnameis]

I had actually called BN last Friday after discovering the stones were identical. As noted above, they were very forthcoming, teilling me that the stone was at a jewelers and that there was about a 2/3 chance they'd be able to get it back if I wanted it, based on paqst experience.

Many thanks for your feedback and wise words. By this morning I had basically decided that the deal was off with this individual and I hope that he does not gouge me for shipping. Unfortunately the deposit was not small so if he turns out to be a real crook I'm in trouble. I highly doubt this will happen however.

How much does it cost to securely ship stones to/from Tel Aviv or Antwerp anyway? What's a fair price to have to pay?

P.S. the sad thing is that I think this whole process has soured my wife on a solitaire ring. She says she doesn't want one now and would prefer to get a set of stacked eternity bands from Tiffany's instead

We'll see how it plays out, based on many posts I've read here, my next step was to give Mark T a call but that looks doubtful at the moment ...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/24/2006 7:24:06 PM
Author: mycatsnameis
I had actually called BN last Friday after discovering the stones were identical. As noted above, they were very forthcoming, teilling me that the stone was at a jewelers and that there was about a 2/3 chance they''d be able to get it back if I wanted it, based on paqst experience.

Many thanks for your feedback and wise words. By this morning I had basically decided that the deal was off with this individual and I hope that he does not gouge me for shipping. Unfortunately the deposit was not small so if he turns out to be a real crook I''m in trouble. I highly doubt this will happen however.

How much does it cost to securely ship stones to/from Tel Aviv or Antwerp anyway? What''s a fair price to have to pay?

P.S. the sad thing is that I think this whole process has soured my wife on a solitaire ring. She says she doesn''t want one now and would prefer to get a set of stacked eternity bands from Tiffany''s instead

We''ll see how it plays out, based on many posts I''ve read here, my next step was to give Mark T a call but that looks doubtful at the moment ...

awww I can understand her frustration... I think if you go with mark you''ll have a wonderful experience that will surpass what either of you wished for in the first place and her resolve can be replaced with thrill! I wish you luck!!

 

[mycatsnameis]

So we cut him loose today, sounds like he did not get much sympathy from his siteholder when he complained about this. An expensive lesson, $600US to cover shipping for the two stones ...