Canadian diamonds

[butterfly75]

I have been thinking about Canadian diamonds lately since I want to avoid conflict diamonds at all costs. Has anyone bought one or know of any good places to buy Canadian diamonds?

Thanks.

 

[portoar]

Well, in the US you can get them at Ben Bridge, marketed as Ikuma Diamonds. I think some Infinity diamonds are also Canadian diamonds -- um, does Wink Jones sell Infinity? I''ve heard the Infinity diamonds are gorgeous.

 

[cutes814]

I''ve seen Ikuma diamonds at our local mall Ben Bridge''s and they are beautiful stones!

I tried on this 3 stone Ikuma ring and couldn''t take it off. We were caught in the moment and almost bought it, but I knew I wanted a solitaire for an e-ring.

I haven''t gone back to compare their stones to my H&A ideal stone though. I wonder how it''ll compare...hrm. Maybe I need to make a visit to the mall someday soon....

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 5/24/2006 12:07:43 AM
Author:julieinthecity
I have been thinking about Canadian diamonds lately since I want to avoid conflict diamonds at all costs. Has anyone bought one or know of any good places to buy Canadian diamonds?

Thanks.

Let me see if i understand your position?

You think that buying a Canadian diamond will help someone in Africa?

The latest debates on the scale of conflict diamonds between Global Witness and various other NGO's and Govt bodies, Kimerely Process etc range between 2% and 0.2% of the whole words diamonds are being smuggled out of rebel held territories.

About 1/2 the worlds diamonds that come from Africa with export taxes and employment taxes being paid to stable and shaky gov'ts. In the not so corrupt cases that money is being used to pay for schools (education is the best way to reduce the effects of AIDS) and health services etc.

So you would really prefer to make people in Canada richer at the possible expense of a poor starving family in Africa?

 

[diagem]

I agree with Garry 100%

Moreover, if you want conflict free...., start by walking..., you are financing conflicts in Africa with the gasoline you use in your car much more than you can by buying an African Diamond!!!

 

[galeteia]

I'm obviously not any sort of a gem expert, but I am a Canadian interested in diamonds. I was first told about them by a Geologist friend of mine when I expressed my S.O.'s concerns (he's from the US) about seamy underside of the diamond business, and my friend suggested that we go with Canada's 'humane' diamonds. No miner exploitation, terrorist funding, or 'blood' is involved with them.

Since then, I have been doing some reading about Canadian diamonds. Because the diamond mines are largely on Native lands, a large part of the workforce involved are First Nations people. So please let me say that if you are going to buy a diamond with the thought of helping underprivileged families make income, consider that these people are being given job opportunities the likes of which have been denied to them for generations. I was raised next to the largest Ojibwae reserve in Canada, and know first-hand the kind of poverty, governmental nelgect, prejudice, and abuse Native peoples have suffered. (There is news about it happening right now, in fact, over land disputes.)

Yes, Canadian diamons may be a bit more pricey, but you can have the comfort of knowing that your purchase is helping to bring income, pride, and status to people who have long been denied all three, and guaranteed not to be funding any 'conflict'.

I don't mean to offend, I just wanted to point out that there are poor families from a chronically oppressed people in Canada, too, and a number of them are working in the florishing diamond business.

Julie, I can ask a few co-workers I know who have bought/are shopping for Canadian diamonds, and ask what routes they took, if you like.

 

[salmon]

Julieinthecity,

I worked in several countries in Africa and Sierra Leone for 8 years. After living in Sierra Leone and seeing every third person I worked with, with chopped off limbs,including babies and the elderly, due to rebels supplied with guns and machetes from conflict diamond sales. I SWORE, I WOULD NEVER BUY A DIAMOND PERIOD (obviously, I''ve changed for several reasons). I DO SUPPORT your decision not to buy conflict diamonds. If buying a Canadian diamond makes your mind feel at ease, PLEASE do so. Don''t be bullied to do anything else. As for money going to Canada instead of a poor family in Africa. Let me tell you from the grassroots level, none of that profit is making it back to the poor farmers or hard working teachers in small villages in Africa. It''s like Reagan''s Trickle down economy, it doesn''t work. I felt the impact directly as a poor rural child with the worst education system one could imagine in this great American economy. You would think some of that money would have filtered down to us proles eh. But it didn''t. It''s the same in many countries in Africa. The money is lost somewhere before it hits the pockets of a poor farmer. Here something interesting to consider. If you buy the canadian diamond, it may help some poor farmer before it buying a African diamond. My first job out of college was a Peace Corps volunteer in the Ivory Coast, in a small village 10 hours north of the capital city. We didn''t have running water or electricity in that village. I was working on a few grassroots interventions, but was having a hard time getting funding for what I wanted. The villagers asked me to help them get electricity and running water. Imagine, I was 23 year old Kid and the villagers were asking me for electricity and running water. I''ve never been so scared in my life. Anyway, three years later some moeny came in the area from CIDA (Canadian International development Agency). Here''s a link: http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/index-e.htm Check them out. Anyway, they were doing a lot of development in the area and eventually the village I lived in and the village next door received electricty and etc. Not directly through CIDA, but through some Canadians who were traveling with CIDA. If I recall, they may have been pretty big donors. I meet several of them and they were all regular working Canadians. Perhaps, they could have been jewellers, I don''t know. My point is, their money from Canada helped stimulate the local economy. With that money, the villagers themselves paid the govt. for electricty and a few hand pump wells. They organized themselves, collected money from everyone in the village, and it only happened because of the involvement of a few kind Canadians. So, just maybe your money will reach some poor guy in Africa. Who knows? I''m not saying it will happen. But If you feel better by purchasing Canadian, by all means, do so. If you really want to help, go volunteer your time. It''s invaluable. I''m requesting funds from CIDA right now, to purchase livestock, seeds, and tools for 8,000 the victims of a massive earthquake in Oct 2006. 8000 people is a small drop in the bucket, when you consider 2 million people are in need, but at least it''s something. Julieinthecity, I''m attaching a picture of a guy who rebuilded his home with canadian money after the earthquake. By the way, I''m not Canadian, I''m American. Just a little food for thought.

 

[salmon]

Humm,

The photo didn''t go through, I''ll try again.

 

[salmon]

The file was is too big. Sorry

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

This is a no win debate.

But there are many nations in Africa that have been saved from economic ruin by diamond revenue. Botswana and Namibia are examples. Those nations underprivledged status is not helped by well meaning people thinking they are supporting them by buying Canadian diamonds.

The very fact that Canadian diamonds command a premum price makes me feel sick.
But i too participate in this anti development diamonds by offering Canadian diamonds here in Australia. I feel that it is wrong - but I can not change it.
It is a dilemma

 

[salmon]

Gary,

You''re right when you say Namibia and Botswana. I have one question to pose. Who is really benefiting? Africans are the Asians (Indians) who run the economy? Have you ever been there? Just curious. I do agree with you that Canadian diamonds shouldn''t command a premium over other diamonds.

 

[^]

edit: searched, nm.

^

 

[portoar]

Garry, I''m not sure you''re making your case. I still don''t understand why Canadian diamonds make you "sick." If what Galateia says is true, that First Nation peoples are gaining employment in the Canadian diamond mines, well, isn''t that helping to put money into the hands of impoverished people too?

People pay premiums for diamonds all the time -- when they go to a B&M, when they buy the Tiffany, Hearts on Fire, Eighternity names, Canadian origin, etc. Sometimes the premium is paid out of ignorance, sometimes it is paid with eyes wide open because the "thing" the buyer is paying the premium for has a value to the buyer -- whether it''s a name and implied standard of quality behind the name, customer service, or something else. I don''t know that we say it''s "sick" when people go to Tiffanys. (Although I admit to feeling a little sick when I think I considered an HOF diamond).

I feel a little skeptical that my purchase of an African diamond might actually trickle down and benefit some impoverished native. The connection seems remote to me. Many of us probably have an ingrained perception (albeit possibly false) that our support of the African diamond industry ultimately fuels strife-ridden and corrupt governments. I don''t know that my first thought is "buy an African diamond -- educate a peasant!"

 

[galeteia]

I, too, am I little confused as to why Gary believes that Julie was intending to ''help'' poor African families by buying a Canadian Diamond? I never got that impression from her post, I got the impression she wanted to stay away from a ''conflict'' diamond at all costs.

I wanted to tell her that if she is interested in ''helping a poor family'' there were plenty of them getting jobs in the Canadian diamond business up north, and _not_ just as miners. Yes, Canadian diamonds are more expensive, but I imagine that is because you are paying the value of the diamond + the added cost of DECENT mining wages, safety measures, and support of the workers.

I am trying to find online some of the print articles I found, because I remember there being something about majority laws up in Nunavut (the territory where the most diamonds come from) that states that at least 51% of the employees must be Native. These people are getting trained on-site so that the jobs can stay close to the diamonds, and not be outsourced.

These people have been shut out of ''real'' jobs for so long. I''m not ashamed to say that I am proud that there are steps being taken to rectify this.

 

[togal]

Gary, with all due respect, I dont' think Julie actually stated a "position" in her post. You did, however, state yours.

There's no need to feel 'sick' over the price of Canadian Diamonds.....hundreds of northern Aboriginals from remote communities are greatly and directly benefitting from much needed, decent paying, stable employment....as long as people continue to buy Canadian diamonds, that is

 

[anchor31]

I recently started looking into Canadian diamonds. As Canadians, my boyfriend and I both believe we should support our economy, and my boyfriend told me he''s not comfortable buying a diamond mined from slave labour. Canada has strict salary and work condition laws, and the mines offer job to people who need them in the north. I somehow doubt the Africans have those controlled salary and work conditions.

Canadian diamonds aren''t necessarily more expensive. Just take a look at the Canadian diamonds sold at www.diamondexchange.ca, a company similar to WF which cuts their own diamonds and have offices in Canada, the US, Autralia and South Africa. For example, WF sells this AGS certified 1.04ct G-VS1 ACA for $8410 US and DE sells this AGS certified 1.04ct G-VS1 ICE Ideal H&A for $8215.31 US. I suppose it''s just a question of knowing where to look, same as every other diamond.

So, to go back to the original question: Julie, diamond exchange may be a good place to start looking. Bichon got her ICE Ideal H&A 1.15ct D-VS1 stunner from them. They have an office in NY. If you can''t go there, they can send you certs and stuff by e-mail and you can work with them by phone. They have a 30-day return period too. My boyfriend and I are considering buying our .50ct diamond from them, and I''ve had great, friendly and fast service so far.

 

[denverappraiser]

By all means there are fine people in Canada who both need and deserve your business but I’m with Garry that this is not a solution to the problem of ‘conflict diamonds’. One of the arguments regularly presented for buying Canadian merchandise is that it avoids the issue of African politics and the resultant diamonds are therefore morally superior to stones mined outside of Canada. If this is the justification, it’s ill founded and I think it’s what Garry is objecting to.

I would like to point out that none of the Canadian diamond companies that I’ve seen take this position. They don’t denigrate African stones and they don’t encourage a boycott of them. They promote their own goods on their own merits. The problem is coming from the merchants and the media.

All economic activity supports a complex web of people and has a set of tradeoffs in the form environment and social issues. Balancing these topics is one of the primary responsibilities of governments and, as has been pointed out, some governments are better at it than others. The division of proceeds between the labor force, management, equipment suppliers, fuel suppliers, shippers, bankers, graders, arbitragers, security, tax collectors and the myriad of other participants is different for every mine and distribution channel. Blanketly boycotting all Africa products does not, and cannot, help when this get’s out of whack and becomes exploitive. To help the plight of African workers, or workers anywhere else for that matter, it’s necessary to reward what you want to encourage and to penalize those who behave badly. What could an African miner, or mine operator, or mining company or country do to earn your business? An effective consumer pressure program will make it clear what consumers want, encourage suppliers to do that, reward those who do it, and penalizes those who don’t. A continentwide boycott has the opposite effect. It leaves the mining companies in the position of selling only to people who care for nothing other than price and leaves them prey to those are willing to cut prices at any cost. The companies/countries that resist find themselves losing market share to those with fewer scruples. They must compromise or close where closing means massive unemployment for the very workers it supposedly helps and provides exactly the avenue required for the criminals and pirates to take over operations. It makes the situation worse, not better.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[jonclegg]

My girlfriend did at one point only want a canadian diamond. When i was looking I found that most vendors didn''t have sources, bluenile, WF. However GOG and jamesallen could get them. James Allen offered 3-4 for me to choose from in the range i was looking at, I would recommend him.

-Jon

 

[Cathers]

canadian-diamonds-wholesale.com is another place you might be interested in. They are in Vancouver(not sure where in Canada you are)I have talked to Stefani in the past and have found her extremely helpful. Good luck in your quest/mission finding the perfect diamond

 

[Cathers]

They are in Vancouver(not sure where in Canada you are)

*doh* Sorry Julie, I misread your post and thought you lived in Canada.

 

[Dancing Fire]

if we all worry about conflicts....

oil....our cars wouldn''t be running.
clothes....we all be running around naked.
lumbers....no house to live in.

 

[portoar]

Neil, that was a thoughtful post, I wish I''d said it myself. This diamond source issue must really bother those of you who are directly in the business and have ready access to more fact that the rest of us, who deal in perception.

I guess I''m just bothered by the all out sarcasm that is trotted out anytime someone expresses concern about conflict diamonds. We are having a hard enough time learning about pavilion angles and idealscopes and hearts and arrows and clarity issues . . . we never even make it to the Kimberley process or any mechanisms the industry puts in place to ensure that diamond profits don''t fund armed conflict. You guys are on the board to educate us . . . so educate us, don''t try to make us feel stupid.

It makes more sense to me that when this conflict-diamond issue comes up, as it always does, that you guys point us in the direction of some material we can read to help us understand that our diamond purchase is not paying for Uzi''s and how our support of the diamond industry can help impoverished people gain employment, better living conditions, literacy . . .

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Indeed a very good post, Neill. Congratulations.

Personally, I always find it a pity when a question about Canadian diamonds immediately becomes a matter of either Canadian on one side or African on the other side, preferably African from an impoverished and corrupt country. I think that it is important to end this incorrect perception, that consumers only have the choice between these two options.

Non-Canadian diamonds can come from:
- Canada, but since they are not in tracking-program, they cannot be sold as Canadian
- Russia
- Botswana, which is Africa''s wealthies country because of its diamond mines and as a country, one of the major shareholders of De Beers''
- Namibia or South-Africa, with well-organised diamond mines or off-shore extraction
- I was forgetting Australia (sorry, Garry)
- Angola, which used to be a war-torn country, but is well on its way to recovery
- Congo, where we will finally have democratic elections at the end of this year, which might really end the internal fighting (mostly in areas with mineral wealths other than diamonds, like coltan, which is used in every mobile phone)
- smaller producing countries like Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Liberia, and so on, where armed conflicts sometimes fire up again, and where it is difficult to assess whether diamonds are part of a conflict or not. There we must trust independent sources, who estimate the real extent of conflict in diamonds at up to 2%.

For those of you who are afraid to buy a ''conflict diamond'', we as an industry can point to the above list, in which you can see that the majority of sources are definitely non-conflict. However, we cannot prove that a diamond is non-conflict in most cases.

We can only point to existing procedures like the Kimberley Process, which makes trading in diamonds from conflict areas very difficult. At the same time, we are faced with ''Anti-Money-Laundering''-legislation from various countries, and the prospect of ending up in a jail or in Guantanamo needs to be weighed against the fast buck of knowingly trading in conflict diamonds.

Therefore, we in the trade generally are scared as hell to be associated to any of these conflict-diamonds or terrorist-issues. I see most people in our business as very careful nowadays about whom they buy from and whom they work with.

If you want to avoid conflict-diamonds at any price, ask your whether he bought this diamond from a reputable house, with which he has worked well for the past years, or from some cowboy, who just showed up on his doorstep with a few diamonds at incredibly good prices. In the latter case, do not buy.

Just my 2 cents,

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 5/24/2006 10:07:47 AM
Author: portoar
Garry, I''m not sure you''re making your case. I still don''t understand why Canadian diamonds make you ''sick.'' If what Galateia says is true, that First Nation peoples are gaining employment in the Canadian diamond mines, well, isn''t that helping to put money into the hands of impoverished people too?

People pay premiums for diamonds all the time -- when they go to a B&M, when they buy the Tiffany, Hearts on Fire, Eighternity names, Canadian origin, etc. Sometimes the premium is paid out of ignorance, sometimes it is paid with eyes wide open because the ''thing'' the buyer is paying the premium for has a value to the buyer -- whether it''s a name and implied standard of quality behind the name, customer service, or something else. I don''t know that we say it''s ''sick'' when people go to Tiffanys. (Although I admit to feeling a little sick when I think I considered an HOF diamond).

I feel a little skeptical that my purchase of an African diamond might actually trickle down and benefit some impoverished native. The connection seems remote to me. Many of us probably have an ingrained perception (albeit possibly false) that our support of the African diamond industry ultimately fuels strife-ridden and corrupt governments. I don''t know that my first thought is ''buy an African diamond -- educate a peasant!''

This thread has had some wise and thoughtful posts.
Neil and Paul in particular.

I have several main sources of polished who are mostly De Beers Sightholders - but also one company who polish Riotinto Aussie Argyle champagnes and Canadian Ekati tracked BHP diamonds.
The later are easily and conveniently noted by laser inscription as being Caanadian. I feel sick because I train my staff to offer these diamonds to people who ask for non conflict diamonds. I too am profiting from this issue.

I feel much more sorrow for the plight of many Africans that Canadain (or Australian Aboriginies) who recieve adequate subsistance govt pensions. Diamonds may improve their lives - diamonds can save many African lives.

http://www.globalwitness.org/reports/index.php?section=diamonds this link will take you to Global Witness - the NGO that is involved in monitoring the Kimberely Process.
They are still trying to maintain a negative stance, although if you read the very long and detailed reports you will see they have stopped attempts to quantify the amount of illicit diamond trading. Overall they admit that getting 70 seperate governemnets - many poor and almost failed states to work together on this issue is an unpresedented success.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 5/24/2006 3:04:43 PM
Author: portoar
Neil, that was a thoughtful post, I wish I''d said it myself. This diamond source issue must really bother those of you who are directly in the business and have ready access to more fact that the rest of us, who deal in perception.

I guess I''m just bothered by the all out sarcasm that is trotted out anytime someone expresses concern about conflict diamonds. We are having a hard enough time learning about pavilion angles and idealscopes and hearts and arrows and clarity issues . . . we never even make it to the Kimberley process or any mechanisms the industry puts in place to ensure that diamond profits don''t fund armed conflict. You guys are on the board to educate us . . . so educate us, don''t try to make us feel stupid.

It makes more sense to me that when this conflict-diamond issue comes up, as it always does, that you guys point us in the direction of some material we can read to help us understand that our diamond purchase is not paying for Uzi''s and how our support of the diamond industry can help impoverished people gain employment, better living conditions, literacy . . .

Portoar,

Many of us in the trade have been and are working on this at many levels. There will be an educational seminar at the Las Vegas show that addresses this very issue that you are wanting more information on. Hollywood is of course going to come out with a blockbuster with Leonardo De Caprio about the evils of diamonds just before Christmas to see if they can''t affect the economy of the US jewelers too. Perhaps when I return from LV I will have more information and information links to direct you to.

I will tell you this, that the trade was working on the conflict issue for many years before the press got involved. I think the Kimberly accords are a fine start to cleaning up a viscious problem and that given continued support and time they will be very effective. It will take time, and it will take fine tuning, but it is the sincere desire of the world''s jewelers to bring you a conflict free product that you can proudly wear.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

Thanks for the kind words.

Yes, it’s a point of frustration for those of us in the business. I get asked about this nearly every day and I really wish I had a better answer. The whole point of diamonds is that they stand for something and you don’t want them to be the product of slave labor and torture tactics. I’m all for socially responsible shopping and consumer pressure on both businesses and government. Where I differ from the Hollywood types is that I like to selectively apply pressure to places that deserve it and I like to see tactics that actually work towards solving the problem instead of fueling the fire. Perception tends to become reality and protests for the sake of protesting make me crazy. I was quite serious when I asked what could responsible Africans (or Russians, Chinese, Australians and other non-Canadians) do to make customers more comfortable with their products.

GCAL announced a new service a week or so ago that is intended to address this issue. Would one of these reports be sufficient evidence to qualify a non-Canadian stone as being conflict free?

http://www.collectors.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4714

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Yes its true, the conflict issue is frustrating to all of us in this industry...
Again we keep repeating ourselves that it only accounting for less than 2% of all rough diamond material comming out of the ground...

But what can we do when the media decided to put it in the spotlight..., bigger and more powerfull leaders in our industry are trying to address an issue that is here to stay..., just as diamonds will be here to stay.

If anyone thinks he can be guaranteed his/her "polished" diamond is conflict free..., i have news for him..., but on the other hand the chances that a consumer is buyng a "blood diamond" are close to Zero.

Yes, the majority of people from the industry will try to do whatever they can to relax the consumer on this subject..., but not everything is in our controll, and unfortunatlly where there are "wars" you'll always find people making a "killing" in doing any business NOT JUST DIAMONDS. and if you chose to be reasonable.... diamonds are accounted for a fraction of a percentage than other more important commodoties...( like OIL for example, but there are more....).
But its not in some people's interest to shake grounds under the feet of some other comodoties....

 

[portoar]

Date: 5/24/2006 7:01:45 PM
Author: DiaGem
Yes its true, the conflict issue is frustrating to all of us in this industry...
Again we keep repeating ourselves that it only accounting for less than 2% of all rough diamond material comming out of the ground...

But what can we do when the media decided to put it in the spotlight..., bigger and more powerfull leaders in our industry are trying to address an issue that is here to stay..., just as diamonds will be here to stay.

If anyone thinks he can be guaranteed his/her ''polished'' diamond is conflict free..., i have news for him..., but on the other hand the chances that a consumer is buyng a ''blood diamond'' are close to Zero.

Yes, the majority of people from the industry will try to do whatever they can to relax the consumer on this subject..., but not everything is in our controll, and unfortunatlly where there are ''wars'' you''ll always find people making a ''killing'' in doing any business NOT JUST DIAMONDS. and if you chose to be reasonable.... diamonds are accounted for a fraction of a percentage than other more important commodoties...( like OIL for example, but there are more....).
But its not in some people''s interest to shake grounds under the feet of some other comodoties....

You are so right, and I''m well aware of it. . . how many people who are terribly concerned that their diamond not come from a conflict area are driving around in their $45K gas guzzling SUV (now this is the issue that makes me "sick" -- not 1 out of 10 people has a legitimate need to drive an SUV, squander oil resources, and add fuel to our government''s war on terrorism, which as far as I can tell, is a war on control of oil resources . . . but no one frets about "blood gasoline" -- they want their SUV and really don''t care about the politics of conspicous consumption . . .

I guess all I''m asking, is, please, when someone brings up this Canadian diamond and blood diamond issue, please don''t jump all over us . . . please give us the same thoughtful comments these last few posts have been, let us know what is going on in the industry to address the concern. And be patient when it gets asked over and over again.

Thank you everyone, Kim

 

[butterfly75]

I must say I am surprised by all the responses to my post. I have done some reading regarding diamonds in different geographical regions, although not enough. I am aware that my little diamond purchase will not change the world but when I know that a product is made / manufactured / mined in a certain way I try to avoid the product. i.e. I do not buy Nike products because of the incredibly low wages many people are paid and that there have been documented to use child labor. I am not naive enough to believe that everything I buy is made from good hardworking people who believe in non-violence. I''m sure a lot of what I purchase could be made using children or as in some African areas, with people who are segregated from their families and sometimes forced to work in the mining areas. I am also sure that many of these people choose to work there to feed your families. But I can not deny that there still exist many issues / problems in African nations. Who am I to say their way of living is wrong unless of course, which is many times the case, they are oppressed people forced into living in such a way. I could go the way of my soon to be mother in law and buy Montana sapphires for a ring but I want a diamond. Diamonds may not have the value or purpose of say a house but to me it is sign of something and is of great importance. I see the positives and negatives of both arguments and although my purchase could help feed a starving child I can''t help the nagging feeling that I could be contributing to horrific conflicts. Everyone is free (those who do not live in many of the African nations) to have their own opinions as to what to buy, where to buy, and why. Like I said who are we to say another person is wrong. I''m not trying to make a political statement just trying to find out information so I can make the decision that is right for me.

P.S. As to the comment of not buying gasoline, did you know Canada is second to only Saudi Arabia in reserves. There are many options out there but many times people and governments make choices based upon money. What is the cheapest to produce, etc.

Thanks to all who posted and for sharing your opinions and thoughts. I will do some more research before making a decision.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

good luck Julie in the City

Let us know your progress.