Calling Dreamer_D and Yssie and other old cut lovers~

[EmmaJoy]

So just from the perspective of appearances, the stone did not look like what I usually see in a tranny. I personally dislike RB's, and find that trannys sparkle/scintillate in a similar (albeit a bit different) way. I have an immediate negative reaction when I see this. This stone has large flashes that I traditionally associate with an old cut.

 

[yssie]

I hope you OldCut,PhDs haven't given up on me after all this confusion I keep throwing at you. I'm trying to not be a difficult RT-er, I swear!

Here are the ASET/IdealScope images from Yuketiel. From what I have picked up about IS, I think the IS looks okay? I don't know how to read ASETs at all.. the dark blue areas are leakage, right?

Here's what I'm seeing. Doesn't mean it's not a pretty stone (it is), just that if light return a la precision-cut AVR is something that is important to you, more so than charm in faceting, something to consider.

The other stones you're thinking of might well also show similar hmm-what-is-this effects, and we just don't have enough info to nitpick. They're antiques, some wonk is just to be expected IMO, so it kinda all depends on what wonk is okay with you and what isn't!

 

[madelise]

Here's what I'm seeing. Doesn't mean it's not a pretty stone (it is), just that if light return a la precision-cut AVR is something that is important to you, more so than charm in faceting, something to consider.

The other stones you're thinking of might well also show similar hmm-what-is-this effects, and we just don't have enough info to nitpick. They're antiques, some wonk is just to be expected IMO, so it kinda all depends on what wonk is okay with you and what isn't!

I'm so sorry, Yssie, dunce here. Can you explain what that hmm-what-is-this? What am I looking at? From my impression, the stone is "upside down" in the ASET and the IS.. the IS's light leakage on the edges on the left compared to the light leakage on the edges of the right on the ASET image.

As for the video screen-shot, I really think that whole photo is a mess, and can't make out anything

 

[Mara]

I am by far not an expert on old stones but to me those 3 dark facets in the middle vs the 3 red ones on the other side are not for me. I would prefer to see more 'on/off' than on on on, off off off.

 

[yssie]

Stone is right side up in all three - IS, ASET, and video. The IS pic is a photo taken through the eyepiece of the idealscope, the ASET pic is a photo through the eyepiece of the ASET scope (not a good ASET pic, in this case, but it's enough for what we want)

The walls of the IS are red and the eyepiece is black. The bright red in the IS shows areas of stone that are taking in and returning light face-up (the light is red b/c of the colour of the IS walls). The black in the IS is obstruction (facets reflecting the black of the eyepiece directly above). White is areas of stone that are not returning light face-up or obstructing, but instead area allowing light to escape out the bottom of the stone ("leakage"). The ASET scope works the same way, only instead of the walls all being one colour they are three colours, so now you have info on "leakage" (black), obstruction/contrast (blue), areas of stone that take in light low light (green) and return light face-up, and areas of stone that take in direct, higher, usually brighter light (red) and return light face-up. As you tilt the stone you'll see that different regions change colour under the scope, as different facets leak/obstruct/return light...That's why you often read that red is "better" than green in modern stones (RBs, princesses) - strictly because in modern day-to-day life light that comes from above is brighter than light that comes from lower angle. That wasn't true when OECs were cut, when at nighttime light didn't come from a bunch of ceiling bulbs overhead!



What I'm talking about specifically is the way the facet pattern under the table seems to break up, and there is a "gap" between the pattern under the table and the pattern under the stars on the crown proper. It's easiest to see in the ASET - there's red under the table, then there's a mushy outline of green and black at the edge of the table, then there's red again. You can see what this translates to IRL in the video - that area of mush under the edge of the table, vs. the more distinct facet patterning in the middle of the table and closer to the girdle - it might be easier to see without the outline. This area won't *do* anything IRL - it wont return light cohesively, it won't go black with contrast as you tilt the stone, it wont leak as a single unit - it'll just look like a dead grey area of mush. This sort of thing is to be expected at significant tilt, but you can see in the video still that the stone is almost directly face-up - in my experience it's also more visible with two eyes than it is with just one, or in a single-eyed photo.





BUT, like I was saying before, we have LOTS of techy info on this stone so we have the luxury of nitpicking techy-style. With other stones that we don't have so much info on, we just can't nitpick like that - meaning that we can't point out all their potential flaws like we're doing here. You have a big budget and some time, so you won't have to "settle" for something you don't love, but the reality is that if you're looking at antiques they're *all* going to have something wrong with them that we can nitpick about, so you'll have to decide what's okay with you and what isn't! I personally would skip this IDJ because the "flaw" isn't one that I would be okay with in such a big purchase, you and others may well disagree.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well, I own two OMC rings inherited from my grandmother (though, my e-ring is a LM five stone with an emerald center). However, and probably more importantly, I work close to the diamond district and often peruse the stores on my break. And I'm not shy about asking to try things on and loop them. All I can say is that I think if you are looking for a well cut OEC at, this is a really good choice. It was completely eye clean and sparkles like mad. Clearly this is just my two cents, but if I had the money I would have tried to snatch that stone up!

Sounds like you are a lucky woman! And a good pair of eyes to have "on the case", as it were.

 

[madelise]

I am by far not an expert on old stones but to me those 3 dark facets in the middle vs the 3 red ones on the other side are not for me. I would prefer to see more 'on/off' than on on on, off off off.

Yay for laymen's terms. Okay I get it. I played around with my OEC and saw what you meant. It doesn't twinkle for the majority of my "movement" until it hits a specific spot. To have it on/off/on/off would create more movement in terms of twinkling.

 

[madelise]

What I'm talking about specifically is the way the facet pattern under the table seems to break up, and there is a "gap" between the pattern under the table and the pattern under the stars on the crown proper. It's easiest to see in the ASET - there's red under the table, then there's a mushy outline of green and black at the edge of the table, then there's red again. You can see what this translates to IRL in the video - that area of mush under the edge of the table, vs. the more distinct facet patterning in the middle of the table and closer to the girdle - it might be easier to see without the outline. This area won't *do* anything IRL - it wont return light cohesively, it won't go black with contrast as you tilt the stone, it wont leak as a single unit - it'll just look like a dead grey area of mush. This sort of thing is to be expected at significant tilt, but you can see in the video still that the stone is almost directly face-up - in my experience it's also more visible with two eyes than it is with just one, or in a single-eyed photo.





BUT, like I was saying before, we have LOTS of techy info on this stone so we have the luxury of nitpicking techy-style. With other stones that we don't have so much info on, we just can't nitpick like that - meaning that we can't point out all their potential flaws like we're doing here. You have a big budget and some time, so you won't have to "settle" for something you don't love, but the reality is that if you're looking at antiques they're *all* going to have something wrong with them that we can nitpick about, so you'll have to decide what's okay with you and what isn't! I personally would skip this IDJ because the "flaw" isn't one that I would be okay with in such a big purchase, you and others may well disagree.

I played around with my OEC and saw exactly what you meant in mine. I think mine is similar in the table area to that IDJ stone-- it's "off" for a chunk of the center, then "on" only for a little bit. Thank you for taking the time to explain it in more technical terms. I still think I'm kind of confused, but I'm trying to grasp it. So leakage is good in small moderation, so long that it helps "perform" by creating that twinkle of on/off/on/off.

I have decided to email Yekutiel (I'd been spelling his name wrong the whole time! Ack I feel so rude!) to un-hold that diamond. If by any chance someone else swoops in to purchase, and I change my mind, it'll be "meant to be". I need to remind myself this for every one I look at.

 

[yssie]

Yup, that's what I mean! In, y'know, a hundred words instead of your twenty

 

[EmmaJoy]

While I am quite lucky, my wallet is not.

For those interested in swooping, I didn't see anything that looked like extinction, which I think is what people are referring to with the on/off discussion. There were no dark spots when looking at the stone.

 

[madelise]

Yup, that's what I mean! In, y'know, a hundred words instead of your twenty

lol, I seriously think we should dissect all similar threads for all of your well written long technical explanations, and stick it all in one place for people to access. It'd save your fingers some exercise! I appreciate it, truly.

 

[LALove]

Yup, that's what I mean! In, y'know, a hundred words instead of your twenty

lol, I seriously think we should dissect all similar threads for all of your well written long technical explanations, and stick it all in one place for people to access. It'd save your fingers some exercise! I appreciate it, truly.

I second this! I'd be scared to death if I had to purchase a large antique stone without Yssie, Dreamer and Gypsy's help! I think y'all could start a virtual appraisal business helping us laymen pick great old cuts!!

 

[audball]

I have decided to email Yekutiel (I'd been spelling his name wrong the whole time! Ack I feel so rude!) to un-hold that diamond. If by any chance someone else swoops in to purchase, and I change my mind, it'll be "meant to be". I need to remind myself this for every one I look at.

Good outlook hun! You'll find the perfect one for *you*.

 

[junebug17]

Madelise,I was just over in the pre-loved forum and there's a 2.57 at jbeg - going from memory, but I think it's about 8.8 mm. N color - I'd post a link, but am on an ipad and don't know how to copy and paste! Just thought I'd mention it

 

[madelise]

Madelise,I was just over in the pre-loved forum and there's a 2.57 at jbeg - going from memory, but I think it's about 8.8 mm. N color - I'd post a link, but am on an ipad and don't know how to copy and paste! Just thought I'd mention it

Thanks Junebug I've seen that one. I don't know how okay I am with those colors yet. If I *am* okay with those colors, it'll open up a HUGE variety of choices for me. I have my eyes on a few warmer colors that would be contenders.. I'd then take advantage and go BIG.

That's not one of the ones Grace will be showing me tomorrow, though. Let's first dip my toes in with that gorgeous almost-cushion L.

 

[junebug17]

Oh sure, I understand! It's great you're getting to see some stones in person, that will really help!

 

[armywife13]

So, how did the visit go today?!?! Sorry, I am impatient...I want of hear about the bling, and maybe see some pictures

 

[Mayk]

So, how did the visit go today?!?! Sorry, I am impatient...I want of hear about the bling, and maybe see some pictures

+++1

 

[GemFever]

So, how did the visit go today?!?! Sorry, I am impatient...I want of hear about the bling, and maybe see some pictures

+++1

+1

 

[Enerchi]

add me to the list of those curious to hear about how the meeting went with Grace! Photos? thoughts? decisions? ... change of heart?!?!
Eager to learn about your day!

 

[madelise]

Hey guys Thanks for thinking of me. I loved my meeting with Grace. WOWZA. She was so patient with me, and showed me ALOT. I got to see that ZahraLeyla twin! I can't thank JbEG and Grace enough for her very educational bling meet with me. I was very nervous about meeting with one of the PS gods (I've been stalking PS for more than 2 years now, and some vendors seriously are celebrities to me), and was quite intimidated, but it felt like I was just hanging out with my BFF or something! She was so warm and just.. comfortable. She wasn't pushy at all, and seriously, the best way to explain it is that I was hanging out with a good friend of mine. I like that A LOT.

I have not had a change of heart. An OEC is for me, baby! I have realized that I am very.. I don't want to say TOLERANT, because tolerating would be to "put up with". I am color sensitive, meaning I can *see* color. But it does *not* bother me in the least. I loved that 4.09 honker! She's got another serious buyer, though, and I'm very happy for her. She's is one big, beautiful honking momma! I also got to see the 4.46 cushion she has in their album. Seriously, wowza, big honkin' beauties!

I've also been trading emails quite religiously these last few days. I have already been notified by one vendor that someone has been calling in and checking up on me, or at least the diamond(s) I've been following. I understand that there are other seekers of the same size right about now, and am weary to post too much information. I'm big on believing what is meant to be, will be.. but that doesn't mean I don't believe I can screw myself over!

I am an OEC lover for sure. and now I think I figured out exactly what I'm looking for. I'm sorry for not sharing more information, but again, I am quite leery of lurkers.

Are you guys interested in seeing those pictures of the 4.09? (They're all iPhone pictures, though, so they aren't the BEST, though Grace was so awesome to bring along an OlloClip and let me borrow it to take some macro shots!) From a consumer, instead of a vendor camera? I really hope she sells soon, because I want to see what amazing things will come outta her. It NEEDS to be designed a setting by Mike! A twin of the ZL!

Oh, and I took photos of another 3ct K (GIA) that Grace showed me, as well, but I didn't take photos of anything else. I would have confused myself like heck if I came back with too much bling ****!

 

[armywife13]

Pictures? Yes please!!!

I am glad you had such a great visit with Grace, she is such a sweet heart. I haven't been able to meet her in person, but I have been talking with her on and off for 10 (!!!) months now, while working on my ring and she has been amazing.....so I can only imagine how great she is in person.

So it sounds like the visit was helpful in determining your wants for your ring. I can't wait to see what you finally end up with. You are dealing with some great vendors and beautiful diamonds, so I am sure it will be stunning!

 

[justginger]

What a lovely experience - wish I could meet with Erica! Those two ladies have never been anything but extremely sweet and patient with me, a HUGE feat when a customer is as picky and indecisive as me!

I am not surprised someone is calling up about your prospective stones. The same thing happened with the cushion I just bought from Adam - the ONLY place on the internet it had been posted was on here, by me. Adam stated that there were two people who emailed and expressed interest in purchasing it. Seriously? So I don't blame you AT ALL for keeping a bit mum about your future prospects and interests. Please do share whatever photos you have of stones you WON'T be purchasing though.

 

[vinjewels]

That's awesome! I have toned it down since they have gotten my ring on my finger because I was starting to sound like a JbEG infomercial, but it IS all true. How fun!

I wouldn't have even thought about others actually calling in...ebay undercutting, maybe, but really calling the vendors?? Hopefully, the vendors on here would respect your need for "room" to choose and know how to gracefully handle those situations. It seems like your meeting with Grace has given you more confidence or clarity? Your post seems a little more calm. So glad you got to see them in person, guessing on something so expensive is a very stressful/scary thing!

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Thanks for posting Madelise. I'm so glad you got to see the diamonds in person and meet Grace too--she sounds lovely! I swear with old cuts seeing them in person really helps a lot--they all look so different. For some reason I always think they look smaller in person then they do in their videos and photos....of course that's because they are magnified a bazillion times--well, either that or I've been watching too many Housewives of Orange County, Atlanta, etc shows......HA! Just kidding!

What did you like better about the OEC that made you know it was the cut for you? Like, I'm assuming this is over, say an OMC or cushion cut, right?

I'm so sorry you think someone is here lurking looking to steal your finds. Do you suppose it's just coincidence---like several people are all looking at the same things? I hope so. It kind of drives me nutty thinking that some people are so into themselves that they don't care who they screw to get what they want--and uckkkk, they'd probably even flaunt their ill gotten goods in the SMTB forum. Like in JustGinger's case--I think it is perfectly fine to call the vendor and say hey, I love the deal that she found can you look for something similar for me? But if they pick up the phone and ask to buy the exact same diamond out from under her--well that is just plain wrong on sooo many levels. I'm hoping it's the former and not the latter here.

I'm keeping tight lipped about what I am looking at right now. I'm hoping once I have the stones on hold to make a post and get some help from Dreamer, Gypsie, Yssie and the old cut experts.

 

[madelise]

Pictures? Yes please!!!

I am glad you had such a great visit with Grace, she is such a sweet heart. I haven't been able to meet her in person, but I have been talking with her on and off for 10 (!!!) months now, while working on my ring and she has been amazing.....so I can only imagine how great she is in person.

So it sounds like the visit was helpful in determining your wants for your ring. I can't wait to see what you finally end up with. You are dealing with some great vendors and beautiful diamonds, so I am sure it will be stunning!

Wow, what project do YOU have coming up?! Can't wait to see! 10 months of scrutinizing.. must be LOVELY

Here's a video of me wearing that 4.09 indoors, in darker, further lighting. I don't know what it's called. Diffuse?
http://tinypic.com/r/29ep1z6/6

 

[madelise]

What a lovely experience - wish I could meet with Erica! Those two ladies have never been anything but extremely sweet and patient with me, a HUGE feat when a customer is as picky and indecisive as me!

I am not surprised someone is calling up about your prospective stones. The same thing happened with the cushion I just bought from Adam - the ONLY place on the internet it had been posted was on here, by me. Adam stated that there were two people who emailed and expressed interest in purchasing it. Seriously? So I don't blame you AT ALL for keeping a bit mum about your future prospects and interests. Please do share whatever photos you have of stones you WON'T be purchasing though.

That particular vendor warned me that they weren't sure if the callers meant to snipe it, or just to be nosy to see how much $ I'm spending. It's such a shame to feel this type of nervousness when trying to ask for help.

 

[Mara]

want.4c. nomnomnom. that thing looks ahmazing!

 

[madelise]

Thanks for posting Madelise. I'm so glad you got to see the diamonds in person and meet Grace too--she sounds lovely! I swear with old cuts seeing them in person really helps a lot--they all look so different. For some reason I always think they look smaller in person then they do in their videos and photos....of course that's because they are magnified a bazillion times--well, either that or I've been watching too many Housewives of Orange County, Atlanta, etc shows......HA! Just kidding!

What did you like better about the OEC that made you know it was the cut for you? Like, I'm assuming this is over, say an OMC or cushion cut, right?

I'm so sorry you think someone is here lurking looking to steal your finds. Do you suppose it's just coincidence---like several people are all looking at the same things? I hope so. It kind of drives me nutty thinking that some people are so into themselves that they don't care who they screw to get what they want--and uckkkk, they'd probably even flaunt their ill gotten goods in the SMTB forum. Like in JustGinger's case--I think it is perfectly fine to call the vendor and say hey, I love the deal that she found can you look for something similar for me? But if they pick up the phone and ask to buy the exact same diamond out from under her--well that is just plain wrong on sooo many levels. I'm hoping it's the former and not the latter here.

I'm keeping tight lipped about what I am looking at right now. I'm hoping once I have the stones on hold to make a post and get some help from Dreamer, Gypsie, Yssie and the old cut experts.

LOL! That's why I stay away from celebrity-TV! I end up wanting everything they have, and thinking it's "normal". Living in Los Angeles has really screwed up my view of what's the norm anyway. Celebrities would just make me depressed! What are their average carat sizes now, 8? 9? Darn Kim Kardashian and the honking 20-some carat trend!

I want to get an OEC over an antique cushion purely because I want the spread to be width-wise for my larger size 7.5-8 hands. I'm also pre-arthritic, and rheumatoid arthritis runs deep in my family. My fingers will only get bigger. I thought about getting an antique cushion, and I really do think they are . They are my first love in diamonds. But they're not for my fingers. I thought about getting one set east-west to get finger coverage, but then I wouldn't be happy about the length of my finger being "naked". I could look up a good 1:1 ratio cushion, but I'd still feel "cheated" that some of its weight is hidden in the corners. I feel that, if I ever miss or regret not getting a cushion, I can reset it in a cushion-y halo or something to get me the feel of something less round.

No, it's not a coincidence, because like justginger, that particular exact diamond was never posted ANYWHERE except for in this thread. The vendor did not have it on the website. People are just nutty I must be jaded like heck. I was very worried about this before even starting this thread, and this incidence has only proved it to me.

 

[madelise]

want.4c. nomnomnom. that thing looks ahmazing!

yes!! why aren't you buying her!