Asscher inclusions

[Asschman]

Having poured over a ton of old posts on the subject of clarity guidelines and grading criteria, I noticed many dealt with round brilliant stones. My question is do clarity guidelines shift according to the shape of the stone, say a step cut such as an asscher that reveals inclusions more readily than others? Would GIA be more lenient in grading those types of stones?

My motive for asking is I just received a beautiful generic asscher, and while the cert says VS2, I could easily see the crystal inclusion located on the edge of the table when holding the stone at the right angle about 6 inches from my eye. Is this an unfair way to determine "eye-clean?"

Asschman

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Asschers will show inclusions more easily simply because of the way they're cut. If you compare a well-cut asscher with a H&A round brilliant, both being VS2, it'll be much more challenging to find the inclusion(s) in the RB because it's more brilliant and has more light return.

 

[Asschman]

Date: 2/16/2005 1:19:52 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen
Asschers will show inclusions more easily simply because of the way they''re cut. If you compare a well-cut asscher with a H&A round brilliant, both being VS2, it''ll be much more challenging to find the inclusion(s) in the RB because it''s more brilliant and has more light return.

Right, I understand that. My question was directed at how the GIA grades them, and whether there is more wiggle room with granting a clarity grade to a step-cut versus a round brilliant.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/16/2005 1:27

0 PM
Author: Asschman

Date: 2/16/2005 1:19:52 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen
Asschers will show inclusions more easily simply because of the way they''re cut. If you compare a well-cut asscher with a H&A round brilliant, both being VS2, it''ll be much more challenging to find the inclusion(s) in the RB because it''s more brilliant and has more light return.

Right, I understand that. My question was directed at how the GIA grades them, and whether there is more wiggle room with granting a clarity grade to a step-cut versus a round brilliant.

Yes, I know. . .um, I guess this was my point. Two stones graded VS2 are graded the same but appear different due to the cut of the stone, not due to the grading of the stone.

 

[Asschman]

Date: 2/16/2005 1:28:24 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen

Date: 2/16/2005 1:27

0 PM
Author: Asschman

Date: 2/16/2005 1:19:52 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen
Asschers will show inclusions more easily simply because of the way they''re cut. If you compare a well-cut asscher with a H&A round brilliant, both being VS2, it''ll be much more challenging to find the inclusion(s) in the RB because it''s more brilliant and has more light return.

Right, I understand that. My question was directed at how the GIA grades them, and whether there is more wiggle room with granting a clarity grade to a step-cut versus a round brilliant.

Yes, I know. . .um, I guess this was my point. Two stones graded VS2 are graded the same but appear different due to the cut of the stone, not due to the grading of the stone.

I think I missed the crucial clause in your first post, "both being VS2." I guess you are then answering my first question in the affirmative. Any gemologists or appraisers care to add their thoughts, particularly on the "eye clean" issue?

 

[maddogmadden]

I just bought a 1.44 E VS2 asscher. I could also see a small inclusion in one of the side steps when I tilted the diamond and looked at it from the side. I still bought it. It was well-cut, had five steps on the pavillion, was very white, and had all of the asscher qualities I was looking for. You can''t see the inclusion when you look at it from my girlfriend''s finger. I know this doesn''t answer your question but, as you know, it can take a long time to even find a nice four or five step asscher, so as long as it''s pretty much "eye clean" you might want to still consider it.

Also, as you know, when you get into the VS2 range there is much more of a range, as compared to a VVSI or VVS2.

 

[skimmy]

i have no idea if the grading system from GIA would be any different based on the cut of the stone...

but i have a VS2 asscher as well and can''t see the feather that is supposedly smack dab in the middle of the table because it''s the same "color" as the stone. i can only see it when i''m looking at it from the side and then it just looks like a piece of lint. i''ve even tried to loupe it to find it and have just made myself dizzy.

i think you can find great value with a VS2 in an asscher...as long as the inclusions are well "hidden." imho, 6inches is a little close and the only one who will be looking at it THAT closely is your girlfriend. do you think she''d mind?

 

[Asschman]

Date: 2/16/2005 2:50:51 PM
Author: maddogmadden
I just bought a 1.44 E VS2 asscher. I could also see a small inclusion in one of the side steps when I tilted the diamond and looked at it from the side. I still bought it. It was well-cut, had five steps on the pavillion, was very white, and had all of the asscher qualities I was looking for. You can''t see the inclusion when you look at it from my girlfriend''s finger. I know this doesn''t answer your question but, as you know, it can take a long time to even find a nice four or five step asscher, so as long as it''s pretty much ''eye clean'' you might want to still consider it.

Also, as you know, when you get into the VS2 range there is much more of a range, as compared to a VVSI or VVS2.

Maddog that is exactly what I needed to hear. And I had pretty much made up my mind that the excellence of the stone''s cut, and its fiery-ness more than balanced out the little inclusion I could see. I think the 4-step made a difference, my jeweler couldn''t stop commenting on how fiery it was.

 

[Asschman]

Date: 2/16/2005 2:58

9 PM
Author: skimmy
i have no idea if the grading system from GIA would be any different based on the cut of the stone...

but i have a VS2 asscher as well and can''t see the feather that is supposedly smack dab in the middle of the table because it''s the same ''color'' as the stone. i can only see it when i''m looking at it from the side and then it just looks like a piece of lint. i''ve even tried to loupe it to find it and have just made myself dizzy.

i think you can find great value with a VS2 in an asscher...as long as the inclusions are well ''hidden.'' imho, 6inches is a little close and the only one who will be looking at it THAT closely is your girlfriend. do you think she''d mind?

Skimmy, thanks for your input. Always great to hear other asscher owners weigh in. The solution I came up with was to make sure that when the stone is set, the inclusion is either at the 3 o''clock or 9 o''clock position so that if she tips it up to admire it she won''t see it, and if she tips it down for someone else to admire, they won''t see it either. At any rate, she is the type of person who would not even notice it anyway or care.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

GIA''s clarity scale is based on the size and type of inclusion- more so than "eye clean'''' aspects.
An Asscher does allow an easier view inside due to the fact that there are less facets, and they are lined up to allow you to see right inside.
This is not a "light return" issue- simply a matter of facet patterns- or lack thereof.

It''s not uncommon for VS2 emerald, asschers- or even some larger round diamonds- to show the imperfection when tilted a certain way- or under close inpection.

Asschers are gorgous stones- if the VS2 doesn''t bother you, don''t worry about it- sounds like CONGRATS are in order!!!

 

[Asschman]

Date: 2/16/2005 3:15:50 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
GIA''s clarity scale is based on the size and type of inclusion- more so than ''eye clean'' aspects.
An Asscher does allow an easier view inside due to the fact that there are less facets, and they are lined up to allow you to see right inside.
This is not a ''light return'' issue- simply a matter of facet patterns- or lack thereof.

It''s not uncommon for VS2 emerald, asschers- or even some larger round diamonds- to show the imperfection when tilted a certain way- or under close inpection.

Asschers are gorgous stones- if the VS2 doesn''t bother you, don''t worry about it- sounds like CONGRATS are in order!!!

Thanks for your insights, and I appreciate your kind words. I had a brief hyperventilation spell when I initially examined the stone, but am very happy with it. I will post photos when and if possible, but it is quite sparkly for a step-cut, at least IMO. I was definitely happy when the jeweler who is providing my setting picked it up in tweezers, looked at it for 10 seconds, and pronounced it a gorgeous stone.

 

[Kaleigh]

I''m glad you''re happy with it, can''t wait to see the pics. I just love asschers!!

 

[Asschman]

I did get one pic--but sadly it doesn''t really do justice to the stone. It does offer a nice look at the concentric squares and the strong and even windmill pattern. I am stopping by the jeweler''s place tonight to finalize the setting arrangement, and might try to snap some photos with my digital camera if he oks it. I don''t know if static images can really capture the brilliance and fiery-ness of the stone as the light plays across it.

And one thing I have learned for sure in looking at the stone in my office--with overheard flourescents and a desk lamp--versus the jewelers place--the latter is really set up to maximize the beauty of any stone. I guess that is a no-brainer, but the difference was still amazing.

Asschman