AGS vs GIA vs Tiffany in-store certification

[carebearz]

Hi all!

I''m new here and have recently ventured into diamond shopping. Its so addictive! I''m currently shopping for an engagement ring.

I dropped by Tiffany recently and was told that their diamond rings are certified in-house. The salesperson went on to tell me that their diamonds used to be certified by GIA but due to the falling standards, they decided not to use GIA any longer.

I¡¦m a little confused here as another retailer that I went to, carries diamonds certified by AGS. And they told me that AGS is a notch above GIA. Which meant that AGS diamonds are better than GIA diamonds. Is this true?

And can I trust Tiffany''s in-house certification? Thanks!
http://www.dvatche.com

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I consider AGS and GIA grading to be equivalent, and as much as it bugs me that Tiffany's does their own grading, I have to admit that it seems to be as accurate as AGS and GIA.

 

[carebearz]

Thanks for your reply, Richard!

I saw the Tiffany cert and it bugged me that their certs do not show the cut proportions, neither do they mark the areas of inclusions, feathers etc. Should I be losing sleep over this?

 

[pad3006]

a friend of mine use to work at Tiffanys until recently, it must have been until recently that Tiffanys did not include a GIA report on there diamonds.
The reports that Tiffanys gives with there diamonds is more strict then the GIA in that if a stone is for example on the line between a E and F color, the Tiffany report would say the F color while a GIA would say E.
As for it not giving the proportions of the cut I am not sure. Also I am not sure about it not giving the location of the inculsions. If you were not shown an actual report, I would make sure the sales person explained it to you correctly.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 7/4/2005 10:03:26 AM
Author: carebearz
Thanks for your reply, Richard!


I saw the Tiffany cert and it bugged me that their certs do not show the cut proportions, neither do they mark the areas of inclusions, feathers etc. Should I be losing sleep over this?

If I were spending substantial money on a diamond, I would insist on seeing the proportion "numbers", as well as a diagram of the inclusions, along with an explanation of their nature.

If Tiffany''s couldn''t handle that, then I would take my business to any of the dozens of diamond vendors who would be happy to do so.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

In the Pricescope 16 stone lab survey conducted last year AGS was found to be slightly stricter and this may reflect what tiffany claim.

Another standard is how long it takes to get a stone graded by GIA - it might be possible that this standard is too low for Tiffany to accept.
Or they may feel they can do it cheaper than the standard price

http://grading.pricescope.com/

Prices of Diamonds Graded by 3 Different Laboratories
Diamond Grading Laboratory Survey

by David Atlas[1], Garry Holloway[2], and Leonid Tcharnyi[3]
August 6, 2004

Abstract

An analysis of trading prices showed that the trade adjusts prices based on expected strictness of diamond grading reports.

To confirm or deny the trades expectation of grading strictness, the authors conducted a small 17 diamond independent survey of GIA, AGS and EGL USA lab grading. The diamonds were anonymously submitted from three different sources.

In half the cases AGS clarity grading was one grade stricter than GIA. In two thirds of cases EGL USA color grading was one grade softer but clarity grading in a third of cases was stricter than GIA. Industry opinions were confirmed and by large each lab graded consistently to its own apparent standard, considering the high degree of human subjectivity involved.

In conclusion: The study confirmed that business to business Internet listings effectively priced diamonds graded by these laboratories

 

[carrot]

Many people refer to lab reports as "certs". (Labs do not guarantee or certify diamonds.) They are a published report of a professional opinion. If you read the results of the Pricescope survey, you will get an idea of how these opinions might vary.

Most people to whom cut dimensions are important (as they would be to most users of this forum) want those dimensions to evaluate the diamond in terms of light return and symmetry. The ultimate goal is to identify diamonds which are excellent performers. If you buy at Tiffany & Co., concerns about cut quality are greatly reduced or eliminated.

Many people on the forum have a negative opinion about Tiffanys. I am not one of them. I have been consistently impressed with the cut quality of Tiffany diamonds, in fact VERY impressed. I have never seen diamonds in any jewelry store even begin to compare with them in terms of light return. I expect that one would have the same experience at Harry Winston or other guild stores.

The problem of course is their prices. Few people this side of Beverly Hills would not find them expensive. One could look at the premium cost as including a "finder''s fee". A person could walk into Tiffany''s and walk out in one afternoon with a very beautiful diamond. Or, they could spend months reading Pricescops and other diamond websites to educate themselves and then spend a few more months calling vendors and looking at diamonds until they find one that meets their expectations. Nevertheless, there IS something appealing about diamond hunting and if you find one too soon, the hunt is over just when you are starting to enjoy yourself!

A third alternative would be to let someone they trust who knows about diamonds pick one out for them. All of these courses will probably result in a beautiful diamond.

An advantage of the diamond plot that is included with some reports is that it uniquely identifies that particular diamond. There is some possibility that this could be important if the diamond were stolen or somehow got mixed up with other stones.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/4/2005 9:25:41 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood
I consider AGS and GIA grading to be equivalent, and as much as it bugs me that Tiffany''s does their own grading, I have to admit that it seems to be as accurate as AGS and GIA.

what about comparing GIA with the new AGS report?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I'm mainly referring to the color and clarity grading, D.F.

In every other respect the AGS report far outclasses the GIA.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

When i walk into Tiffany stores around the world and examine their goods with an ideal-scope (which i am want to do) I do not find exceptional cut quality in their diamonds. I think they would range between AGS 0 and AGS 2-3 under the new system.
I also do not personally consider I colored to be a beautiful diamonds.

 

[diamondfan]

I just got a ring from Tiffany''s. I absolutely got a GIA cert in addition to their own. It tells you all aspects (table, depth, flour, etc) and has a map of the stone showing any inclusions. I am not certain if they changed it but it would have been within the last 3 weeks...do not know if this helps!

 

[carebearz]

I called up my local Tiffany store (Singapore) and they confirmed that their diamonds do not come with any certs except for their in-house certs. I got a friend to check out Australia''s Tiffany and they said the same thing. Either things have changed in the past 3 weeks or they don''t give out GIA certs in this part of the world?

 

[denverappraiser]

carebearz,

It's not the lab report that makes a diamond beautiful. It’s really isn’t valid to suggest that stones graded by one lab are better or worse than stones graded by different lab. It will depend on the stone. Tiffany lab is a reputable group and I think you can reasonably expect the color, clarity, weight and dimensions described by them to be very similar to what you would find if you submitted the stone to GIA or AGS for additional examination. I don’t think a GIA report is necessary to confirm this information.

Neither Tiffany lab nor GIA-GTL currently contains cut grading information on their reports. This doesn’t mean that the stone is deficient, just that the information isn’t on these particular reports. If you want this information, there are appraisers that can help you figure it out.

It all depends on what you’re looking for. Tiffany sells quality products and delivers a Tiffany experience along with a certain status that comes with being associated with their name. They charge a healthy premium for this and many people find it to be worth every penny. Others find that similar or better merchandise can be purchased elsewhere for less money and they count that little blue box as seriously overpriced. Both have a point. Not everyone is looking for the same thing. You need to decide what are the attributes that are valuable to you and shop accordingly.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Indepdendent Appraisals in Denver

 

[carebearz]

Neil,

That''s what my boyfriend said too! I guess I need to overcome the psychological factor of not having an independent lab report.

 

[rosy]

Tiffany provides a GIA cert in addition to their in house cert if the diamond is 1 carat or more. They only provide in-house certs if the diamond is less than a carat.

 

[carrot]

SuperAdBlocker_DIV_Elements="16" SuperAdBlocker_OnMove_Hooked="0" SuperAdBlocker_OnMouseEnter_Hooked="0" SuperAdBlocker_DIV_FirstLook="0">Date: 7/5/2005 9:06:57 AM
Author: denverappraiser

carebearz,

It''s not the lab report that makes a diamond beautiful. It’s really isn’t valid to suggest that stones graded by one lab are better or worse than stones graded by different lab. It will depend on the stone. Tiffany lab is a reputable group and I think you can reasonably expect the color, clarity, weight and dimensions described by them to be very similar to what you would find if you submitted the stone to GIA or AGS for additional examination. I don’t think a GIA report is necessary to confirm this information.

Neither Tiffany lab nor GIA-GTL currently contains cut grading information on their reports. This doesn’t mean that the stone is deficient, just that the information isn’t on these particular reports. If you want this information, there are appraisers that can help you figure it out.

It all depends on what you’re looking for. Tiffany sells quality products and delivers a Tiffany experience along with a certain status that comes with being associated with their name. They charge a healthy premium for this and many people find it to be worth every penny. Others find that similar or better merchandise can be purchased elsewhere for less money and they count that little blue box as seriously overpriced. Both have a point. Not everyone is looking for the same thing. You need to decide what are the attributes that are valuable to you and shop accordingly.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Indepdendent Appraisals in Denver

VERY well artculated, Neil!