AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Ideal?

[dawgcatching]

Looking at some diamonds recently, at the "good" jewelry store in the region, and the best cut they had in the 1.75ct range was an AGS Cut grade of 2 (Very good). She said "yes, it is basically as good as an AGS ideal, most eyes won't notice a difference" and it did look good under the jewelry store lighting. But, they can order an AGS ideal for me if I want one, the price difference really isn't that much.

if I go the AGS ideal route, can I basically be guaranteed a beautiful, no regrets diamond? That is the point of the light performance grade, correct? I don't want to skimp on cut; then again, this is a sight unseen purchase if they are pulling in a stone to be examined (I likely won't have 2 AGS ideal diamonds to compare to). Just bite the bullet and order the best one I can find in my price range?

And what about Super Ideal? I don't see that term on the AGS cert, but do hear the term bounced around quite a bit here.

 

[tyty333]

Re: AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Idea

Go for the AGS000 and be done with it. That way there are no regrets or that wondering feeling in the back of your mind.

I believe some people are referring to branded stones as "Super Ideal"? They usually have all the documentation to back it up
and are cut to certain standards. Just because you are getting an AGS000 doesnt mean it is an H&A stone. If you are interested
in something like that you would need to look at Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds. A few other places have some H&A stones
but not necessarily branded. You do not have to have H&A to have a nice stone but some people like the reassurance that it
is a top of the line precision cut.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Idea

Looking at some diamonds recently, at the "good" jewelry store in the region, and the best cut they had in the 1.75ct range was an AGS Cut grade of 2 (Very good). She said "yes, it is basically as good as an AGS ideal, most eyes won't notice a difference" and it did look good under the jewelry store lighting. But, they can order an AGS ideal for me if I want one, the price difference really isn't that much.

if I go the AGS ideal route, can I basically be guaranteed a beautiful, no regrets diamond? That is the point of the light performance grade, correct? I don't want to skimp on cut; then again, this is a sight unseen purchase if they are pulling in a stone to be examined (I likely won't have 2 AGS ideal diamonds to compare to). Just bite the bullet and order the best one I can find in my price range?

And what about Super Ideal? I don't see that term on the AGS cert, but do hear the term bounced around quite a bit here.

An AGS 2 can indeed be a very nice diamond. Depending on what aspects cause it to be dropped from Ideal, it could very well qualify for GIA's top grade of Excellent. Having said that, be aware that clarity characteristics can also play a part in visual light performance. The AGS light performance based cut grade is based upon a ray tracing analysis of a scan of the the actual diamond. It is a mathmatical analysis that assesses the contribution of every facet of the diamond. But it is calculated independent of other attributes.

The term super ideal is applied to diamonds that have attributes of cut quality over and above that which is graded at the lab. Three dimensional precision (H&A) is one of those. The idea is that precision faceting optimizes the stone to deliver the maximum levels of fire and brilliance that the facet design is capable of.

 

[cflutist]

Re: AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Idea

Go for the AGS000 and be done with it. That way there are no regrets or that wondering feeling in the back of your mind.

I believe some people are referring to branded stones as "Super Ideal"? They usually have all the documentation to back it up
and are cut to certain standards. Just because you are getting an AGS000 doesnt mean it is an H&A stone. If you are interested
in something like that you would need to look at Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds. A few other places have some H&A stones
but not necessarily branded. You do not have to have H&A to have a nice stone but some people like the reassurance that it
is a top of the line precision cut.

Wink Jones of High Performance Diamonds also sells AGS0, H&A, "Super Ideal" Crafted by Infinity diamonds will all of the ASET, IS, etc. images available on their website. If you don't see what you want on their database, they will also Cut to Order (as they did for me).

Wink also has a See It To Believe It Program where he will ship diamonds to you at not cost to you. Per his website:
"I will pay the shipping and insurance, both ways, so that you can see the diamond at no shipping expenses to you."

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Idea

I just need to add that not every AGS Ideal cut (0) diamond is equal to another. There are some of those I would not want. So be selective. Post whatever they bring in here before making a commitment. You are never obligated to buy a stone sight unseen. Drop that jeweler immediately if they don't allow you to look at a stone and refuse it. Also, they should have an unconditional return policy of several days, even if the stone is called in. I absolutely would go for the ideal cut stone over a 2. I'd just want to be sure I got one of the best AGS Ideal cut stones. More than one vendor here has a two tier system for their best cut stones and ideal cuts that are not top cut quality.

 

[dawgcatching]

Re: AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Idea

I just need to add that not every AGS Ideal cut (0) diamond is equal to another. There are some of those I would not want. So be selective. Post whatever they bring in here before making a commitment. You are never obligated to buy a stone sight unseen. Drop that jeweler immediately if they don't allow you to look at a stone and refuse it. Also, they should have an unconditional return policy of several days, even if the stone is called in. I absolutely would go for the ideal cut stone over a 2. I'd just want to be sure I got one of the best AGS Ideal cut stones. More than one vendor here has a two tier system for their best cut stones and ideal cuts that are not top cut quality.

How can I post a stone I haven't seen? Even if I do see it, how can I post pics, even with a good camera? And how do I know it is a great stone when I get it? Sure, it will look pretty great to me, I don't look at diamonds very often, and if the only thing I can compare it to is an AGS Cut grade 2, then it should be better. Kind of like driving a Subaru WRX as a first performance car. Sure, it is a fun car, grippy, quick. You might think it was the best car ever if that is all you knew. Until you get in something like a Cayman S. Then you would think that was the best car ever. Until you got in a Porsche Spyder. And on and on. I have no comparison and no background, it is impossible to say what is best or even very good to my eyes.

No, they aren't going to force me to buy it if I don't like it. But I expect to: it doesn't seem like AGS 000 is all that common, should be better than 98% of the stuff out there. Sure, like the analogy above, it might not be a Ferrari (assuming those are the High Performance diamonds listed above: I am sure they are the best of the best, but also very pricey, I can get another .6 carat of AGS 000 over what those would cost me, that is a lot of size). AGS 000 might only be a 911 or Cayman S. But most people would be very happy driving either a 911 or Cayman S. Most people would also be very happy driving the BMW of diamonds, a well cut GIA 3X, right?

Or am I looking at it the wrong way?

I do have the AGS cert light image on one they recommended from a good cutter, does that help? And angles: 62.4 depth, 55.5 table, 35.6 crown, 40.6 pavilion. Thinking of bringing it in. I know the HCA table is well thought of here, this one scores very well at 1.4

 

[pyramid]

Re: AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Idea

I was curious about the HCA score and went to look at the Holloway Cut Advisor site. This diamond is one of the harder to find FIC diamonds. In the Firey Ideal range as compared to being in the Tolkowsky Ideal range. It will have more colour light return and less brilliant white light return, although as it is ideal I think this is more a taste, nuance, meaning there will be enough but I believe Tolkowsky is sold on the taste of more a balance of both. Some on the forum here in years gone by before the Ideal lab grade used to search long to find a FIC which is a top heavy diamond (not in a bad way) more crown & lesser pavilion. Wait and see what some of the experts have to say here but I know some would spring at the chance of this one for the fire return.

 

[dumbo]

Re: AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Idea

I just need to add that not every AGS Ideal cut (0) diamond is equal to another. There are some of those I would not want. So be selective. Post whatever they bring in here before making a commitment. You are never obligated to buy a stone sight unseen. Drop that jeweler immediately if they don't allow you to look at a stone and refuse it. Also, they should have an unconditional return policy of several days, even if the stone is called in. I absolutely would go for the ideal cut stone over a 2. I'd just want to be sure I got one of the best AGS Ideal cut stones. More than one vendor here has a two tier system for their best cut stones and ideal cuts that are not top cut quality.

I was curious about this too: what distinguishes a "top" AGS ideal cut (say top 20%) vs say an average AGS ideal cut (maybe half are better, half are worse). And, would you trade a "top" AGS ideal cut (Super Ideal or thereabouts) for an "average" AGS ideal cut, if it means giving up, say 50 points on an $18,000 diamond? Even though the "average" AGS ideal cut is not reflecting quite as much light as a percentage (say 96% instead of 98%), the overall size of the diamond, in my mind, will more than make up for that, reflecting much more light as a whole, looking more impressive overall. When shopping, a 1.85ct Super Ideal in I color is the same price as a 2.35ct AGS Ideal in I color. Anyone is going to notice a half carat. But I looked at a lot of diamonds, certainly didn't see much if any difference between an AGS ideal and a super ideal. Maybe that is just me though. They all looked quite impressive.

Thoughts?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: AGS Cut grade 2 vs Cut grade/Light Perf. 0 vs Super Idea

I just need to add that not every AGS Ideal cut (0) diamond is equal to another. There are some of those I would not want. So be selective. Post whatever they bring in here before making a commitment. You are never obligated to buy a stone sight unseen. Drop that jeweler immediately if they don't allow you to look at a stone and refuse it. Also, they should have an unconditional return policy of several days, even if the stone is called in. I absolutely would go for the ideal cut stone over a 2. I'd just want to be sure I got one of the best AGS Ideal cut stones. More than one vendor here has a two tier system for their best cut stones and ideal cuts that are not top cut quality.

I was curious about this too: what distinguishes a "top" AGS ideal cut (say top 20%) vs say an average AGS ideal cut (maybe half are better, half are worse). And, would you trade a "top" AGS ideal cut (Super Ideal or thereabouts) for an "average" AGS ideal cut, if it means giving up, say 50 points on an $18,000 diamond? Even though the "average" AGS ideal cut is not reflecting quite as much light as a percentage (say 96% instead of 98%), the overall size of the diamond, in my mind, will more than make up for that, reflecting much more light as a whole, looking more impressive overall. When shopping, a 1.85ct Super Ideal in I color is the same price as a 2.35ct AGS Ideal in I color. Anyone is going to notice a half carat. But I looked at a lot of diamonds, certainly didn't see much if any difference between an AGS ideal and a super ideal. Maybe that is just me though. They all looked quite impressive.

Thoughts?

Tradeoff decisions have to be made on a range of factors when buying a diamond. Even buyers of D FL Super ideals (and there are a few) most likely don't get as large a diamond as they might otherwise like. Most shoppers that begin to learn about the role of cut quality and its impact on diamond beauty tend toward making tradeoffs in other areas first. But even in the upper reaches of cut quality there is a range and some tradeoff may make sense depending on personal preference and options available.

Car analogies are often sited when talking about light performance, and it is true that a decently cut diamond of good quality looks pretty sweet to someone who has not developed an "eye" for diamonds. One of the considerations for many people shopping for an engagement ring is that if you are going to buy one diamond for a very special person and it is to be a forever diamond, going for a very high level of performance is a decision you will never regret.

For the more experienced shopper who has owned diamonds and has developed an appreciation for what a diamond is capable of doing with light, it is particularly hard to walk back down the ladder of cut quality!