Advice on this 2.07 ct J/Si2 - on the fence

[luvdajules]

Hi Everybody, I thought this would be a slam dunk as a H&A stone but when I finally got the reflector images and the hearts image, I'm a bit disappointed, although I still think it's a lovely stone overall, just not an A+. So, I'm trying to figure out if it's an A or A- or really I should pass. Please help me if you can. I may only have a few more days to decide to go through with the sale or not. I really need your input from this great community of prosumers. It was offered to me at a very competitive price from a well regarded PS vendor but this important purchase is harder than I thought it would be, maybe because some of the info. is not all "ideal" but close. And there's another stone I'm interested in (slightly smaller but maybe a safer bet on the numbers-more on that later).

It's 2.07 ct. J color, Si2 clarity AGS000 Medium Blue fluoro
8.17 - 8.28 - 5.29
54.2/61.8/34.8/41.0/16/43.4/51/79 see AGS report: http://www.agslab.com/reportTypes/pldqr.php?StoneID=104072442002&Weight=2.076&D=1
HCA 2.1 Very Good
AGA cut class 1B overall
"eye clean" by appraiser but I can see the lilypad near the arrow spear, but totally prongable. Other inclusions are white crystals mostly under the table.
ASET considered "great" by appraiser, but not cut to optimize IS so it appears that there is some leakage, but appraiser says "not significant"

 

[luvdajules]

more photos

Help!

 

[luvdajules]

Bump, anyone?

 

[ecf8503]

"Other inclusions are white crystals mostly under the table"

I'd be leery of this. If I can see it, it will bother me, and the only way you'll know is if you see it in person. If it's a PS vendor, I assume they have a return policy in place? Can you have it shipped to you to look at?

 

[luvdajules]

Hi and thanks for being the brave first reply post You're not hurting my feelings to really evaluate this stone critically. I welcome that actually. The grade setting inclusion are small white (clear) crystals that are scattered mostly under the table, see photo 3 (but that's way blown up). You can see them in that photo, but I doubt one could set in ring so I understand why the appraiser deems "eye clean". I do have 10 days to view and inspect the stone for myself.

 

[Tekate]

have you posted a picture of the stone itself? that would be nice to see.

 

[teobdl]

It's not true hearts and arrows, but it is very well cut. You almost definitely wouldn't be able to distinguish between it and a true H&A if they were in front of you.

The worry is whether the inclusions affect performance noticeably. Do you physically have the diamond in front of you? Can you see the inclusions for yourself? Is there a gemologist to evaluate whether its specific clarity characteristics affect brilliance?

 

[luvdajules]

The photo of the actual diamond is photo 3.
Thank you, teobdl. Embee Diamonds recently did the re-cut (not sure from what, though). It's very spready for 2.07 ct. with a diameter of 8.18-8.28 mm. My experience is that the best cut diamonds face up slightly small for their weight, but this one has a nice mix of things going on. It has strong pros and the cons are mostly falling in the non-classically accepted PS guidelines for ideal. So, that's why it's such a tough call for me. I also don't feel like an expert and rely on the experts for such a big purchase.

the stone is still with the appraiser and I'll be speaking with him soon. I'll post more after the call. I haven't actually seen the stone in person and viewed it from all lighting conditions.

 

[Tekate]

yes, you are right.. it's such a big one! sorry I missed it.. it looks very nice. I am no expert but sometimes we regular folk can see things.. I like it.

The photo of the actual diamond is photo 3.
Thank you, teobdl. Embee Diamonds recently did the re-cut (not sure from what, though). It's very spready for 2.07 ct. with a diameter of 8.18-8.28 mm. My experience is that the best cut diamonds face up slightly small for their weight, but this one has a nice mix of things going on. It has strong pros and the cons are mostly falling in the non-classically accepted PS guidelines for ideal. So, that's why it's such a tough call for me. I also don't feel like an expert and rely on the experts for such a big purchase.

 

[teobdl]

The photo of the actual diamond is photo 3.
It's very spready for 2.07 ct. with a diameter of 8.18-8.28 mm. My experience is that the best cut diamonds face up slightly small for their weight, but this one has a nice mix of things going on. It has strong pros and the cons are mostly falling in the non-classically accepted PS guidelines for ideal. So, that's why it's such a tough call for me.

That's not a spready stone. If it gets a HCA score >2 (I didn't run it), if anything it's due to the "steeper" pavilion angle of 41.0. But seriously, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that cut. The proportions are fine, and the images show you such.

I'm glad you'll be seeing it with your own eyes.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The photo of the actual diamond is photo 3.
Thank you, teobdl. Embee Diamonds recently did the re-cut (not sure from what, though). It's very spready for 2.07 ct. with a diameter of 8.18-8.28 mm. My experience is that the best cut diamonds face up slightly small for their weight, but this one has a nice mix of things going on. It has strong pros and the cons are mostly falling in the non-classically accepted PS guidelines for ideal. So, that's why it's such a tough call for me. I also don't feel like an expert and rely on the experts for such a big purchase.

the stone is still with the appraiser and I'll be speaking with him soon. I'll post more after the call. I haven't actually seen the stone in person and viewed it from all lighting conditions.

I'm surprised that this stone received a 0 cut graded with such a wide diameter variance.. most well cut stones are within .03-.04mm, and no this is not a H&A stone.

 

[luvdajules]

Dancing fire, I wondered about this too. This again, is just another characteristic that falls just outside of acceptable ideal. The HCA is 2.1 (not under 2). No deals in diamonds, only trade offs! If this isn't the poster boy for that, not sure what is. All kidding aside, I'm told is lovely, beautiful and stunning IRL.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Dancing fire, I wondered about this too. This again, is just another characteristic that falls just outside of acceptable ideal. The HCA is 2.1 (not under 2). No deals in diamonds, only trade offs! If this isn't the poster boy for that, not sure what is. All kidding aside, I'm told is lovely, beautiful and stunning IRL.

IMO, Not a dud but not a top ideal cut either. Ok, I'll be nosy...how much is the stone?

 

[luvdajules]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-carat-good-cut-d-color-i1-for-9400-good-value.204005/#post-3713285#p3713285']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-carat-good-cut-d-color-i1-for-9400-good-value.204005/#post-3713285#p3713285[/URL]
Mine is the second reply

appraiser said no problem with the 8.17x8.28 mm, that's 0.11/8.2=0.013 or 1.3% off (took his word on the math, didn't do it myself). He said a big difference would be 4%. He grades this a solid A stone (given my question in first post to this thread). I have a lot to think about now. Any other insights? I welcome any and all feedback!

 

[teobdl]

If you want a H&A don't get it. If you do get it, make sure you don't pay a H&A premium. But it will likely be just about every bit as beautiful cut-wise. You just need to see it. Go to a Hearts on Fire dealer to see a true H&A diamond first so you know what you're looking for.

 

[AprilBaby]

It looks pretty to me but I'm not an expert. The J color would bother me more.

 

[luvdajules]

thanks, teobdl, You're assessment on cut and appearance are spot on with the appraiser: not H&A symmetry, but would look the same IRL. Appraiser did think it's a top cut, just missing H&A status, so not an A+ (WF ACA, BGD Sig, CBI). He said it might make the next rung of branded cuts though, lol.

Aprilbaby, I understand, we vary in color sensitivity. J is still very white to me and the medium blue fluoro helps it when there is UV light present. Tint on the side won't really bother me cause I look at my diamonds for the sparkle on top! This has such an interesting journey for me. Size and cut were utmost important, color then clarity (as long as the inclusions didn't impact light performance or transparency-which they don't in this stone). Keep the comments coming, it helps me sift things through!

Gypsy, I love your direct, no nonsense style, what's your take? I know you won't BS me.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think it is okay if the price is right. I prefer I color or higher and I would not care for SI2 for an engagement ring. But if she wants a large stone and doesn't care about the color or clarity, then it might be fine. I'd go under 2 cts and get better color and clarity, personally.

 

[CanuckAB]

If you trust your appraiser and if you are satisfied with the price, then IMHO you are good to go.

 

[luvdajules]

Thank you both, btw I'm female, so I'm picking out my own stone after 14 yrs together (11 married) and 2 kids. My hubs is happy for me to take the lead on selection. He just wants me to be happy with my choice. I'm more budget conscience but I do want a nice sized diamond solitaire ring (I've gone back and forth about simulants). My engagement ring is a gorgeous blue sapphire in a 3 stone setting with diamond sides and heavy platinum setting. I wear it sometimes, so I'd like to reinvent it so I could wear it more as a RHR when my diamond comes, but hubs says no to redesign for sentimental reasons.

 

[Evert P Botha]

I may be a little biased- but that's a gorgeous AGS Triple Zero.

 

[CanuckAB]

Wear it as is as a RHR. It sounds lovely! Will it need to be sized?

 

[luvdajules]

Thanks, Embee! You rock! It's tough on a relative newbie, on the one hand, I've learned so much about diamonds and cut. On the other, given this experience and these set of specs (that fall just outside of classic PS specs, maybe PS is overly harsh?) it's still considered a top cut when appraised, and given AGS000 grading and light performance. I've learned a lot from this. It's a terrific stone at a competitive price. I just need to sleep on it. I'm going to take teobdl advice, though and get back to everyone later with my thoughts.

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

I think it will look nice. Especially if a prong covers the area you are concerned about. It's an AGS000, so the HCA isn't really necessary I read, because AGS has run it's own performance tests. Have you seen it in person yet? You will drive yourself crazy if you keep trying to top yourself. There will always be a better stone to someone else. Just pick what is most important to you (cut, size, color, clarity) and stick with it. I am pretty sure most girls would love to have a 2ct+ AGS000! Just make sure it is eye clean to your standards and that J color is good for you. I have seen plenty of nice J/SI2's in 2cts here on PS. I am not an expert, just someone who enjoys a beautiful diamond! Good luck with your search!

 

[luvdajules]

Here's a comp I found on GOG website of in house inventory, a premium select 2.04 ct J/Si2 for $13k bank wire:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12333/

Has a similar small table and high crown, but the GIA cut grade is VG, polish G, symmetry VG but still has a predicted AGS 0 for light performance. Measures 8.05-8.18-5.04. HCA 1.3, suprisingly. I wonder what the megascope would look like on this stone for fire. This one would also have the lifetime guarantees and upgrades, which is worth a lot to me.
I'm in hair splitting hell.
I'm going to see some hof this weekend, just to educate my eyes only. Appraiser won't ship before Monday anyway, so I figure I have until then to wire.

 

[Evert P Botha]

Hi Luvdajules,

Good notes from HeartsArrowsGirl.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts once you've had a closer look at the 2.076 which was cut to the highest cut grade on the market as developed by AGS (Laboratories) over many decades.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I believe it is against the rules for Embee to comment on their own diamonds (or other vendors diamonds when known), just so you know.

The GOG stone has great images, and is a great cut. But I would also be cautious with a large feather as the primary inclusion. I have two diamonds from GOG and I love them, so I recommend them anytime I can, but I personally could not deal with the inclusions. Of course, I don't like them on the original stone, either, so you can consider the source! I prefer SI2's that have twining wisps which sometimes are pretty eyeclean even with magnification.

 

[SirGuy]

It looks pretty nice to me. It's not perfectly "ideal" but it is splitting hairs. With that smaller table and steeper crown angle it has a chance to be delightfully fiery.

 

[msop04]

It looks very nice to me... even better, if you got a good deal! It's so hard to find an eye clean SI2 at that size -- looks like you've found one! I have a J as well, and I love it... I just wish mine had as nice a cut and fluorescence like yours!! Congratulations on getting a new ring!! Keep us posted!

 

[Evert P Botha]

Thank you DiamondSeeker...and noted.

Please note that we're not vendors- we're cutters....we cut diamonds- there's a difference.
This particular pieces is one we cut for another Customer- if you follow the rest of the conversation thread.