Woman proposing to Man - Need some helps!!!

[_Destiny_]

Hey there everyone,

Well.. I am new and I really want some help!!

I''m Amanda, 18 and Sean my partner for 2 years on November 23rd, 22 I want to propose to... simple ?

Lol.. not really

We have sort of been together longer if we class the first time we got together, even when we broke up we flirted around but didn''t see each other, it was just on November 23rd, we finally said it''s for real now! No messing around!

I want to know how it works... Simply: Do i buy a male engagement ring? and propose.. or buy a female engagement ring and just wear it once he says yes??

I really would like to know, because I am so confused about it!!

I had this grand idea about hiring a motel room at where I work, and decoarting and making a big poster and having it there and telling him to check the room or something like that But I''m not sure or anything!!!! Anyone want to help me???

Thanks so much in advance!!

Amanda - girl wanting to proposing in hectic nightmare!

 

[mimzy]

whoaaa

you''re probably going to get a lot of questions on this one...so i guess i''ll start.

1. are you sure he wants to get married to you? as in, have you two talked about the future in realistic, serious terms?

2.will you two be able to support yourselves? you''re just out of high school.... does he have a career? still in school?

3. when do you plan on actually getting married? asap, or in a few years?

4. are you sure he wants to be proposed to? has he made it explicitly clear that he would rather you propose than him?

i''m afraid that unless you can answer a resounding YES to all of these....and you are actually 24 instead of 18, you are going to get a whole lot of DON''T DO ITs

if that doesn''t stop you, don''t buy yourself an engagement ring, get an engagement band for him. then if he really wants to do it you can pick out an engagement ring for you together.

 

[oshinbreez]

I remember being in love at 18, getting married at 19, kids at 20 and 22, separated at 22, back together at 23, and divorced at 25.

Are you planning on going to college? What do you see for YOURSELF in the future....not as a couple and getting married stuff. What do you want with your life? When I was young, I dreamed of being a psychiatrist. What''s your dream?

I think most men would rather do the proposing than be proposed to. It''s a guy thing. Have you seriously talked about getting married?

If you feel like you need to do the proposing, why not get him an engagement watch?

Please take time to do some soul searching.

 

[musey]

 

[swingirl]

What do you mean when you say Sean is your partner? He has been your partner since you were 16? I''ve just never heard of a 16 year old or 18 year old girl calling her boyfriend a "partner".

You have been partners since he was 20 and your were 16? Do you already live together? Has he brought up the idea of getting married?

My only advice is if you are sexually active use double protection.

 

[Sha]

What''s the rush?

You''re only 18 years old.. I think it would be unwise to make such a serious commitment at your age, especially if you''re thinking about getting married shortly after. There are some teenagers who make it, but studies show that the odds are stacked against thos who marry at such a young age. As you get older, especially through your early 20''s, you''ll realize that your perspectives on life, thoughts, wishes, goals, etc will change. Those changes can really affect your relationship.

Also, do you plan to go to college/university? Are you working? Can you support yourself financially, as well as your partner, should he become unemployed? You should also wait until you''re more financially secure before you look at getting married.

 

[CrookedRock]

Very interesting! I''m now 24 and my BF is 28 and I have been dating my BF since I was 17... We love each other so much, but I can guarantee you that if we would have gotten married or even engaged when I was 18 or 19 we would have NEVER made it. I have grown up so much in those years, and many of my views and priorities are different now. I don''t see any problem with discussing the future, but rushing it is another thing... Live life for a while.. Have fun, and see where you are in a few years. If you really think you need something to prove your commitment at this point, maybe you could look into some kind of matching promise rings... Let us know what you decide to do. We all root for happy endings here, that''s why you are getting the advice you are... even if it''s not what you really wanted to hear...

 

[honey22]

hi Destiny!

I think your main point has been missed here - you don''t seem like you were wanting advice ''if I should'' but ''how I should''. Being late 20''s and been in a relationship for over 10 years, I can see the points being posted, but I also believe that if you have made up your mind that this is what you want then you should follow your heart - life is too short to take chances!

That said, I don''t think there are any rules - but keep in mind next year is a leap year and there is some wives tale about a leap year being the only year a girl can propose so go for it! Whatever feels right for you. I think the hotel room could be a nice touch, especially if you are not sure of your partners feelings yet, a very public proposal might be best avoided.

Good luck!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think it is fine to ask him what his plans for the future are to try to lead him in that direction. But ultimately, I am sorry, but I think the guy needs to propose. Forcing a guy into marriage before he is ready will probably end in disaster.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/29/2007 3:44:29 PM
Author: swingirl
What do you mean when you say Sean is your partner? He has been your partner since you were 16? I've just never heard of a 16 year old or 18 year old girl calling her boyfriend a 'partner'.


You have been partners since he was 20 and your were 16? Do you already live together? Has he brought up the idea of getting married?


My only advice is if you are sexually active use double protection.

what do you mean by double protection?

_____________________________________

Now on topic like most others here based on the little info we have this sounds to me like a disaster scenario--but that aside. I say go for an Engagement watch. I got an engagment watch after the fact and I can tell you it really means alot to me. It is a strong emotionalsymbol of my relationship, one that I can almost always wear and that, well...I don't know how to put it but it makes me feel more manly when I am wearing it. which is really silly I know, I am not really sure how to explain it. It is something that I can wear proudly and know what it means, without having a wedding band (since I am not married) and that no one else can just look at and figure out what it really is--something about that hidden meaning makes me feel even more attached to it frankly...the privacy and intimacy and personal connection I have with it that nobody else can see (as they do with a wedding band, etc) just makes me feel really great for some reason. Like it is MY relationship, just a testament I suppose, to her being MY fiance. Anyway, on another note, if you get him a nice one, it will expensive and something he can wear that is truly high quality and will make him at least "feel," and maybe look, somewhat more professional--which is always a nice thing to have and feel thus giving it a practical application as well, which most guys I know love to have.

and most importantly, if you present him with an engagement watch he might be upset that you proposed to him, but it won't be NEARLY as emasculating as sitting there and watching you bring out a ring box. Just the thought of watching my fiance bring out an Ering for me makes me feel nauseous, and while I might eventually feel the same with a watch it would take a while for what was happening to don on me, which would surely soften the blow. But to watch her bring out a ring box...too much for me to handle.

It might be ok for some guys, but other guys like me would probably feel like throwing up, certainly not saying "yes!" so a word of advice, if you do it, make sure it is very private and relaxing for him, maybe just at home on the couch? If you aren't sure how he will react make sure it is somewhere he feels comfortable, just in case he is taken totally off guard, you also don't want him wondering what people around him are thinking, or worrying if someone will come in--in case he take it worse than you hope.

Either way, given the men I know, he isn't likely to break down in tears and start crying and say yes. If he is ANYTHING like me this is going result in a lengthy conversation, sitting on a couch holding hands, looking each other in the eye and talking about whats going on. I suppose he might like a beer as well--and well, depending on how upset he is at first he might not want to make eye contact for a little while, until he gathers his thoughts. Maybe watch how he reacts, if he seems upset, find an opportunity to head and get him a beer or whatever he drinks...if he is 18...crap...ahh...something to drink, root beer, whatever. Something to give him a moment alone so he can think by himself and sort out his emotions, then maybe he would be much more understanding when you came back.

Obviously if he handles it really well though none of that would matter but he might not, so be prepared.


My thoughts here are that rather than proposing, you need to just sit down and talk. Tell him how you are feeling, open up, tell him you have even been thinking about proposing to him, how much you love him, and how you don't want to rush into anything but would rather make an intelligent wise decision--hopefully that is the truth--but emotionally you feel ready (remember, our immediate emotions are not always the best route to happiness, or even to a lifetime of being together).

Think on what a proposal is. To me, its not some magical event which will suddenly make the two of you intertwined and committed to one another. Rather, at least within my experiences, it is two people coming together and talking,and agreeing they will spend their lives together, and that they both already want to. However, if both people don't feel that way before you get to the proposal, then what does the proposal become?

It would leave one person on the spot with a couple of seconds to decide the rest of his/her life...I shopped for four weeks before buying sandals and still made a bad decision...and the fact you are on here now trying to prepare for this important occasion (but not nearly as important as being with someone your whole life) tells me that you understand preparation time, so don't take that from him.

Thus, I say...you both have to prepare before hand, and spend alot of time making that decision while both communicating together and thinking about it independently. His decision should NOT be made hastily, and if both of you are not well prepared and have discussed the possibility NUMEROUS times, it is very POSSIBLE that he will make a hasty decision that will turn out to be one he regrets in the future--which could mean anything from saying yes to deciding to break up.

I say, as a general rule of thumb:

Hasty on the spot life altering decisions should be avoided whenever possible.

they have real potential to go awry--so I say take care of him if you really love him, and let him have ample time to make this decision for himself by himself AND with you, so he has no regrets--not with an on the spot unexpected hotel surprise.

_____________________

on the another note

while I don't know anything about your relationship, heck, he might be 40 for all I know. I have to say, honestly, 2 years in a relationship is not very long. And at this age, if you are anything like the people I know, you are going to change tremendously over the next few years. I am only 23, and I can tell you the things you will learn in the next few years, especially if you give yourself good opportunities to learn, will open your eyes and change your attitudes and decisions and perceptions of many aspects of life.

One of the first thing it will change is your sense of time though

1 or 2 years is awfully short, even if you are waiting for a wedding or proposal(believe me, I know about waiting better than most), and years are especially short if you are trying to truly understand who somebody, and even more so if that person hasn't anywhere near fully developed yet.


oh, and are you pregnant by anychance? That would change everything.

 

[emilina22]

i would not want to be the one proposing to him...

like many have said its a guy thing, and its a moment he would only get once in his life (idealy)

i dunno, when ever a girl says she wants to propose i get the feeling that the guy isnt really on the same page as the girl, i get the idea (and maybe not in your case, cause you havent awnsered the previous questions askes, which would be super helpful if ya did so we can all get a better understanding of your situation and to help you out more

) that the couple hasnt discussed marriage much and the girl wants something that the guy isnt ready for.

you dont want to force him into a position that he doenst want to be in.

im not much older than you, im 20 and i have been with my boyfriend for 6 years and i dont think that at 18 i would have been ready to get married or even engaged, sure the thought was nice but come on, seriously, staright outa highschool to get married, you dont even know who you are yet. even if i do get engaged soon, i woulldnt want o get marrried before i finish my undergrad and i would love a long enegagement so its all good if i do get engaged soon, and my guy and i have dicussed this over and over again and have decided to wait for the wedidng till after i finish in 2009

but as much as i want to get engaged before the end of the year there is no way i would be asking him, and one main reason is that i would feel like i would be taking away a bit of his manhood. you know? i mean put yourself in his shoes, say you get engaged and when people ask how it happend you would end up saying that you did it, and think about what his guys friends would say if you proposed to him...i would definetly not want to be him in that situation.

i am really not for the whole girl proposing to the guy, i think its all good to sit and discuss the best time to get engaged but not to actually do it before hes ready.


those are just my thoughts.

 

[Circe]

Oh, dear.

I proposed to my fiance - spur of the moment. Luckily, he''s not one of those gentlemen who''d feel threatened by a deviation from the norm (though, if he had been, I certainly would have been glad to learn it before things got any further: if a lady''s of the sort to enjoy occasionally taking the initiative, and the guy feels sick at the thought of it ... well, it points to a fundamental incompatibility, no?), and we''re getting married at the end of the month.

When we tell our engagement story, the reactions from people who know the both of us fairly well tend to fall into the general category of "Man, that is so *you*!" The one exception came from a friend of mine who''s very old-fashioned. She kind of wrinkled her nose and asked if my having proposed didn''t make me feel as though I loved him more than he loved me, with the aura that, that being the case, maybe I should keep it under my hat ....

Except, the fact of the matter is, I''m proud of having proposed to him, and *quite* pleased with the results! So, for that matter, is he - when I mentioned my friend''s reaction to him, he was completely boggled. It hadn''t even occurred to him that anyone could see it that way .... (Dang, I love that man. I think a lot of the reactions that fall into her camp are predicated on a very narrow set of assumptions about gender (I mean, going off of my friend''s question, one could assume that every woman out there who said "Yes" loved her future hubby less than he loved her: obviously, this is hogwash, but it really underscores the women=passive, men=aggressive, deviating from the norm=unattractive dynamic). If those are the assumptions that work for individuals, awesome, but making it into an across-the-board rule ... bleurgh. So, my take on it is, if ever you want to propose, propose!

Now, the other issue that a lot of people have raised is your age ... and that one''s worth considering, I think. If you don''t mind telling us, what kind of a timeline do you have in mind? Do you want to get married immediately, have a long engagement ... ? Could you maybe tell us a little more about the general circumstances?

 

[musey]

Date: 10/1/2007 4:01:38 PM
Author: emilina22

im not much older than you, im 20 and i have been with my boyfriend for 6 years and i dont think that at 18 i would have been ready to get married or even engaged, sure the thought was nice but come on, seriously, staright outa highschool to get married, you dont even know who you are yet.

To be fair though, most people would say the same exact thing about your age. Sheesh, most people would say the same about my age.

The red flags, for me, come from elsewhere in that post...

 

[emilina22]

sorry ive had a long day...red flags in my post or destiny''s post?

 

[musey]

Date: 10/1/2007 8:16:07 PM
Author: emilina22
sorry ive had a long day...red flags in my post or destiny''s post?

Destiny''s, of course. I was trying to make the point that, while age is certainly a factor, we likely wouldn''t react so strongly to her post were there not many other glaring red flags there.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

oh, and I wanted to say that for some couples it could be a very beautiful experience to have the woman post. I would just say it isn''t the norm, and for me, well, I expressed how well I would have taken it already

but I have tremendous respect for diversity

 

[Sha]

Date: 10/2/2007 1:12:21 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
oh, and I wanted to say that for some couples it could be a very beautiful experience to have the woman post.

Really? Do men really like it when women post? I never thought of it that way...

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/1/2007 4:01:38 PM
Author: emilina22
i would not want to be the one proposing to him...


like many have said its a guy thing, and its a moment he would only get once in his life (idealy)


i dunno, when ever a girl says she wants to propose i get the feeling that the guy isnt really on the same page as the girl, i get the idea (and maybe not in your case, cause you havent awnsered the previous questions askes, which would be super helpful if ya did so we can all get a better understanding of your situation and to help you out more

) that the couple hasnt discussed marriage much and the girl wants something that the guy isnt ready for.


you dont want to force him into a position that he doenst want to be in.


im not much older than you, im 20 and i have been with my boyfriend for 6 years and i dont think that at 18 i would have been ready to get married or even engaged, sure the thought was nice but come on, seriously, staright outa highschool to get married, you dont even know who you are yet. even if i do get engaged soon, i woulldnt want o get marrried before i finish my undergrad and i would love a long enegagement so its all good if i do get engaged soon, and my guy and i have dicussed this over and over again and have decided to wait for the wedidng till after i finish in 2009


but as much as i want to get engaged before the end of the year there is no way i would be asking him, and one main reason is that i would feel like i would be taking away a bit of his manhood. you know? i mean put yourself in his shoes, say you get engaged and when people ask how it happend you would end up saying that you did it, and think about what his guys friends would say if you proposed to him...i would definetly not want to be him in that situation.


i am really not for the whole girl proposing to the guy, i think its all good to sit and discuss the best time to get engaged but not to actually do it before hes ready.



those are just my thoughts.

hum, I was thinking about that, and spur of the moment would really be alright in my book. I would still hate to have had that opportunity taken away from me, but I would be able to understand her heart and how she wanted it so much and just couldn't wait anymore-- and I can imagine a guy, even myself, really appreciating that alot, despite any sadness at having missed out on proposing to you/her. But even after giving it a bit more thought, and despite being able to recognize the love she would have to have to propose, a woman doing the whole planning, set up, and bringing out a ring box and all of that--so formal and traditionally the mans job-- just sounds so emasculating to me...but still, I am sure there are some guys who are cool with it.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/2/2007 6:10:46 PM
Author: Sha

Date: 10/2/2007 1:12:21 AM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

oh, and I wanted to say that for some couples it could be a very beautiful experience to have the woman post.

Really? Do men really like it when women post? I never thought of it that way...

lol, hahaha...yea,well, I spend too much time on here already(usually getting yelled at these days) to spend much more editing

 

[emilina22]

WorkingHardforSmallRewards


i know my guys feels that if i were to propose he would feel like i took away his manhood...

he once flat out said if you were to propose i wouldnt say yes, i want to ask you, thats one thing i only get to do once, and is you do it then what am i left with to suprise you with...i hate surprises

and if we wanted to get married while i was still in school its all good we can but, i know i dont want to be a student and a wife at the same time. some women can do it but i cant. so we decided to wait till im done, which is all good cause we want to buy a house before we get married and we want to accomplish a bit more, him getting higher in his job, me finding a job (hopefully) and just being able to pay for the wedding we both want, and having a long engagement helps in that.

but trust be somedays i wish that sometimes we could get married earlier, and i am counting down the days till we get engaged, but im going to wait and be patient.


im totally a traditionalist and i guess thats why i advise agaist it, and plus if a couple (any couple for that matter) is on the same page why would the girl be doing the asking, i mean it just seems pushy too me, like she cant wait (im talking in general, i dont mean to offend anyone, and if i do im sorry).

 

[musey]

Date: 10/2/2007 6:35:25 PM
Author: emilina22

im totally a traditionalist and i guess thats why i advise agaist it, and plus if a couple (any couple for that matter) is on the same page why would the girl be doing the asking, i mean it just seems pushy too me, like she cant wait (im talking in general, i dont mean to offend anyone, and if i do im sorry).

I would like to be able to say "if women and men are equals, why can''t the woman be the one to do the proposing..." but I don''t think society''s view on relationships has evolved quite that much yet. We''re heading in that direction, but it''ll be a little while yet before that actually becomes true for more than a small handful of people.

I think that you''re right for 95% of couples. The reality is that, most of the time, the woman is ready first--and the proposal comes from the man because he''s the primary factor causing the "wait." In general, a man being ready means his girlfriend is probably ready, too, but it doesn''t usually work the other way around.

I''m speaking in HUGE generalities here, and this by no means applies to everyone. It just seems to be true for the majority of couples.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/2/2007 8:46:11 PM
Author: musey

Date: 10/2/2007 6:35:25 PM
Author: emilina22

im totally a traditionalist and i guess thats why i advise agaist it, and plus if a couple (any couple for that matter) is on the same page why would the girl be doing the asking, i mean it just seems pushy too me, like she cant wait (im talking in general, i dont mean to offend anyone, and if i do im sorry).

I would like to be able to say ''if women and men are equals, why can''t the woman be the one to do the proposing...'' but I don''t think society''s view on relationships has evolved quite that much yet. We''re heading in that direction, but it''ll be a little while yet before that actually becomes true for more than a small handful of people.

I think that you''re right for 95% of couples. The reality is that, most of the time, the woman is ready first--and the proposal comes from the man because he''s the primary factor causing the ''wait.'' In general, a man being ready means his girlfriend is probably ready, too, but it doesn''t usually work the other way around.

I''m speaking in HUGE generalities here, and this by no means applies to everyone. It just seems to be true for the majority of couples.

My feelings - if you''re basing something on ''rules of equality'' or generalizations, then you''re not being true to yourselves and your unique relationship.

Date: 10/2/2007 8:46:11 PM
Author: musey

The reality is that, most of the time, the woman is ready first--and the proposal comes from the man because he''s the primary factor causing the ''wait.''

The poor guy''s just trying to save enough to buy the diamond!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

I can see what you are saying Musey, and on the surface I think it does appear that way, but I honestly don't think it is really about being equal for most people. I absolutely consider my fiance to be equal to me.

We are different people, and thus in some ways I am more skilled than her, and in other ways she is more skilled than me, but as human beings and in terms of overall value and abilities I do not consider myself to be "superior" to her at all. I value her opinions generally greater than my own, but at least as well as my own. Yet--I still have the position I gave before.

It is kind of like...how would a woman feel if the wedding ceremony was changed around on her. All her life she grew up imagining a certain thing, excepting to walk down the aisle with her fiance waiting for her, with everybody watching and everything else most women imagine.

But then he decided that since they were equals, well, why not reverse the roles? She can stand there in a suit and wait on him while he walks down the aisle in a new tux with long coat tails and everyone can watch him. How well would most women take that?

She may well consider her husband to be an equal human being and person to her, but I doubt that many woman would accept a wedding like that, and if her man seriously suggested it, might she not feel a bit sick and distraught? just as I said I would about the proposal?

In the same way, most guys I know have certain ideas about their future proposal. I know all my life I expected certain things--not many specifics, but I imagined all the basics, bringing out the ring, the surprise on her face, the tears, her excitment, etc etc, everything that society had taught me to expect.

and because I imagined those things and wanted them from as far back as I can remember, I am sure that they meant as much to me as walking down the aisle means to most women (and while men might act tough around girls, I assure you this is the case with most men, even if they might hide it well sometimes). My beliefs and desires, however, certainly had nothing at all to do with her being more or less equal than myself.

Now, that isn't to say that other options don't work out. Just as some weddings are drastically different than cultural norms, so it is also some men have drastically different feelings and perceptions on engagements. And that is all part of you two choosing each other as a couple, as someone pointed out above. So please don't take offense if you are one of those couples who like alternate routes--having a girlfriend and now fiance in Japan for four years is not everyones cup of tea either

, we are all different, but there are still cultural traditions and beliefs worth understanding.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/2/2007 10:27:32 PM




Author: musey




The poor guy's just trying to save enough to buy the diamond!

haha, that is true as well! but honestly, in my experience, there is usually alot more to it than that. but I am pretty sure that was partially a joke

 

[decodelighted]

Amanda ...

WHY do you want to do the proposing? Is it because you''re hoping for a big romantic moment where he is overwhelmed with emotion & says "Yes" and then you are engaged. Because hoping/planning for that highly unlikely scenario is probably a lot more fun than heart-to-heart discussions about getting married (that I *believe* most folks these days have LONG BEFORE a big "surprise" proposal from EITHER partner).

You might not get the answer you want ... even if you can''t IMAGINE him saying "no" to you.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/2/2007 10:34:40 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

But then he decided that since they were equals, well, why not reverse the roles? She can stand there in a suit and wait on him while he walks down the aisle in a new tux with long coat tails and everyone can watch him. How well would most women take that?

She may well consider her husband to be an equal human being and person to her, but I doubt that many woman would accept a wedding like that, and if her man seriously suggested it, might she not feel a bit sick and distraught? just as I said I would about the proposal?

Remember that 'equal' doesn't mean 'identical'. Role reversal is forcing the same scenario, which is a lot more than equal.

Date: 10/2/2007 10:34:40 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

In the same way, most guys I know have certain ideas about their future proposal. I know all my life I expected certain things--not many specifics, but I imagined all the basics, bringing out the ring, the surprise on her face, the tears, her excitment, etc etc, everything that society had taught me to expect.

Those expectations that society taught you must have been scary for you proposing in a different society, especially Japanese.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/2/2007 11:46:24 PM
Author: stebbo

Date: 10/2/2007 10:34:40 PM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards


But then he decided that since they were equals, well, why not reverse the roles? She can stand there in a suit and wait on him while he walks down the aisle in a new tux with long coat tails and everyone can watch him. How well would most women take that?


She may well consider her husband to be an equal human being and person to her, but I doubt that many woman would accept a wedding like that, and if her man seriously suggested it, might she not feel a bit sick and distraught? just as I said I would about the proposal?

Remember that 'equal' doesn't mean 'identical'. Role reversal is forcing the same scenario, which is a lot more than equal.

Date: 10/2/2007 10:34:40 PM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards


In the same way, most guys I know have certain ideas about their future proposal. I know all my life I expected certain things--not many specifics, but I imagined all the basics, bringing out the ring, the surprise on her face, the tears, her excitment, etc etc, everything that society had taught me to expect.

Those expectations that society taught you must have been scary for you proposing in a different society, especially Japanese.

It was, but if it came down to societal demands I have generally been pretty understanding. Just about across the board I am willing to recognize where my beliefs are based on my upbringing, and how they differ from her because of that, and work to reach some accord or sacrifice to keep her happy. Yet still, it could well have made some problems, and almost did, as you know I just about botched it up with that whole work/ring thing, but thankfully I got my mind straight again before I did.

Also, Japan is pretty westernized these days and her in particular--she isn't just some random asian woman or course. She majored in international studies and has worked hard for many years studying english, native american culture, etc etc, because she has always been fascinated with America, and thus she has a healthy appetite for a number of values and traiditions with which I am familiar.

They have alot of customs, traditions and behavioral demands of their own, to be sure, and it takes a lot of getting used to. But their country has also become very westernized, in multiple ways, which helps makes things alot smoother than it would be otherwise (though, really america doesn't have too many nationwide traditions or cultural demands, not in comparison to other countries anyway.)


and yes, role reversal is not the same as being equal--I thought about using an example of having them walk down the aisle together. But i decided that since the point in question was reversing the proposal roles the appropriate analogy would be to reverse the roles in the wedding as well. My main point being that neither the man wanting to propose or the woman wanting to walk down the aisle are necessarily doing it out based on how they value their partner. There is a lot more to it than just being equal.

 

[musey]

Hmm, stebbo and WHFSR, I think you both entirely misunderstood my post!

I was elaborating on emilina''s post about why we tend to "judge" or "read into" a woman proposing to her boyfriend, instead of letting him do it for her. My point was that women and men becoming more (or completely) equal in their relationship hasn''t yet brought the social freedom of women proposing to men without that choice being overanalyzed by many that hear about it. The rights to the proposal don''t lie in "control" of the relationship (as proven by the fading/disappearance of one party actually HAVING control over recent decades).

Hoping this might make it more clear: Mary is ready for marriage. She''s made it (sometimes painfully) clear to John. John hems and haws, something about sowing wild oats (or wanting to be financially stable first, etc. etc.). Mary''s not gonna propose to John, because she''d obviously be risking a "no." Months (or years) later, John proposes to Mary, because he already knows she''s ready, and now he is, too.

Again, this is simply a generality. It wasn''t the case for me and certainly is not the case for many other people, but I think it''s the root of the whole "the man must propose" thing.


Amanda posted about wanting to propose to her boyfriend, and the overwhelming reaction was "don''t do it." I was getting a little philisophical on you all and trying to talk through why that might be.


And stebbo, no, the guy''s not always "just saving for the diamond"

 

[musey]

P.S. If that actually is how you interpreted my first post, I''m gonna need some clarification on yours! Because I could only understand yours if I assumed you''d misunderstood mine... sorry

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

oh, hahaha, I was about to go to sleep and I had to add this on. We had no problems with the Engagement process as she felt the same as I do.

we did have some problems with other various aspects I have talked about.

but one thing I dont think I ever mentioned, my fiance told me that in Japan the male gets to pretty much make all of the decisions. He gets to decide the place, time, style, maybe even the dress, etc etc.

we work things out together alot, but the wedding,engagment and marriages are areas--obviously--where I have some strong beliefs and opinions (though we talked about it alot in the past so its not like she is surpsied by how I feel or anything). My understanding of a wedding is that it is an event that is centered around and focused around the bride. so at first she was asking me to make decisions, but I wasn''t having any of it. of course I will help out and offer some opinions, and if she is getting to stressed out I will take over where she needs me to, but I will not be happy unless it is exactly what she wants. so, a very unexpected problem for me lol, I never imagined I would be arguing with my fiance about making sure she gets what she wants in the wedding, unless it was because it was too expensive.

and now she keeps trying to make sure that my parents get what they want, not in small things, she is basing major decisions like: what style of wedding, where to do it, to wear a kimono or not--all just for them, ready to abandon what she has told me she wants so many times in the past...ugh, so yes, there are a few problems...but nothing I can''t live with

though I am not always sure what to do...