Men: please help me understand him!

[Beekie]

Hi there, I am new to this forum and I''ve been reading lots of great stories about engagement/proposals etc, and I thought that it would be a good idea to ask advice about my bf.
We have known each other since 1999 and were friends during college, started seriously dating in 2001 and have been dating for the past 3 years. Anyhoo...this whole time we both have been very serious about marriage but I am so completely tired of waiting on engagement. About a year ago he wasn''t quite sure if we were right for each other and so I was heartbroken and we broke up for a couple months. But he came back around and realized he did not want to be without me. I still love him but here''s my issue: I want to get engaged and I am tired of waiting. There has been so many times that I have felt disappointed that it hasn''t happened yet, even though I am confident that he wants to be with me. I really hate feeling this way because I feel like maybe I"m just super impatient or selfish, but then again I think "well it has been 3 years" and all of my friends have been thinking that he is just stringing me along. And, I have to defend him and say "no, we just dont have enough money yet". The whole issue has been financial for a long time. He has a lot of debts he wanted to pay off first (whereas I have none) and we both have agreed that it would be better for us to enter a marriage without extra financial baggage on our shoulders. It does not make the emotional wait any easier though.

Right now he is trying to sell his camaro so he can use the money to buy a ring and pay off more bills. I am very excited about this but whenever someone calls asking about the car, my b/f always tells me about the call and so I get REALLY excited and get my hopes up. Is he trying to take me on some kind of emotional rollercoaster? Because I can very well do that myself without any help! I guess I"m just frustrated, tired, disappointed, and I worry that when the time comes for him to propose, that instead of being super excited like I have always dreamed, I will instead be filled with bitterness and resentment that I have had to wait so long and have so much built up disappointment.
I know what I am feeling is wrong - and I hate myself for it. Please give some advice on how I can look at this situation differently. I do not want to be resentful and bitter. When it does happen, I want it to be magical and beautiful like it should be. I just feel like my spirit is broken.

 

[appletini]

Beekie...the waiting game is not any fun. I have been with my BF for about a year, and that might not seem like long to you, but after 1.5 months of dating we knew we wanted to get married. Then he made a mistake of telling me a false time frame (that was six months ago) and I let it slide for a little while and finally one day went nuts and let him know how much that upset me b/c he would get my hopes up and then I would be disappointed, he finally admitted that he was saving money (he doesn''t have any debt, but wants to pay cash for the ring) and wanted to get me a very nice one. Well we are finally going to go and look at rings together on Friday, and about a month ago I stumbled onto PS and was so glad I did, b/c I have learned so much, and seeing all the pictures have given me so many ideas and now I finally know what I want. Had he proposed when I was hoping, I''m afraid that I would want to trade my ring for the one I want now.

Also how long have you been out of college? Generally I go with the maximum dating two year rule, but if you were in high school/college when you started dating then you should wait until two years after college to get engaged, b/c that gives you time to get settled, save money, and experience some personal growth.

Tell your BF your frustrations, so that he understands your feelings too...communication is very important. Be patient...this is very difficult. Also if you haven''t joined the ladies in waiting club on "show me the ring" then you definitely should, b/c its nice to know that other ladies are in our same situation.

 

[Beekie]

Apple-
Thanks for the advice and comforting words. We have been out of college for 2 years and have gone through many of the ups and downs of real life. We are ready, I think I just feel disappointed that it still hasn''t happened yet! But, I always try to remind myself that God has a perfect timing for everything and hopefully when I look back it will all make sense, FOR US. Part of my frustration probably stems from the fact that my friends have all gotten married young and do not understand the "financial reasons" aspect of getting married. My b/f would like to buy me a very nice ring (not too expensive, but something he will be proud of) which I really admire him for that even though I know I would be happy with anything. My friends, however, put much pressure on me about how the relationship "should be" and what my b/f "should or should not be doing". They can be very judgmental. Anyhow, their thinking seeps into the back of my mind and gets me discouraged and doubtful of him. It is a battle I do not think any woman should have to endure, but I suppose that''s life. And he definitely has gotten my hopes up in the past, I think just to tide me over. The past several months though he has been very specific with me on his feelings, how his finances are going, and especially with selling this car. Those things have been good, but because of what happened before, it is REALLY hard to believe him. It is very hard for me to believe that anything is actually going to happen...I just don''t have hope anymore and it makes me really sad. Even when he says he wants to get engaged very soon, I hardly believe a word of it.

I want to be resolved of these feelings before he does propose.

 

[appletini]

Well none of my closest friends are engaged or anywhere near it, but all of his friends are married or engaged...so their wives and fiances are always houning him about it (glad I''m not the only one). Well it sounds like your guy really is trying to make it happen, try to be patient for a little while longer. Besides NYE is on Friday and V-day is in less than two months, those are both prime times.

 

[codex57]

Here's a guy's point of view:

We're not that emotional generally. All that pressure you feel from your friends getting married and stuff doesn't hit us as hard. My g/f suffered teh same thing. I tried to sympathize, but guys don't get the peer pressure to get engaged so all I can do is empathize but I can't sympathize cuz society just doesn't pressure me the same way.

Plus, if your guy is like me, he views all these obligations about the same. One financial obligation gets about the same weight as the other. Priority goes to the one with the fastest coming deadline. Bills with a hard deadline occupy my mind teh most.

Perhaps try giving your guy a deadline. Tell him you know he has bills, but try and get him to understand that the pressure you feel just eats at you and you can't take it forever. Remind him of this every now and then. Then, suggest you would like to get married by so and so date. Give him a few months, particularly if he has a lot of debts and not too much money. Then, try and gently, but firmly remind him of that deadline as time passes. He needs to have a deadline/goal so he can start planning for it.

Without the deadline, other priorities may push the engagement from his mind since there's no deadline associated with it.

Pride also dictates that he'll want a ring he can eb proud to have given you. Can you accept size with some clarity/color problems? That'll be cheapest and will impress the most lay people. That'll help salvage his pride despite his wallet. If you hint what you can sacrifice, it gives him hope and thus encouragement to keep trying. Plus, it gives him some direction. Guys are lost when they first start looking for rings. Any direction helps.

 

[blueroses]

Beekie, please feel free to join us over in the "ladies in waiting" thread.....you will find quite a few of us sharing this same boat!!! You are not alone, and it is a very frustrating time.

 

[qtiekiki]

Beekie - you and your bf are ~23 - 24 yrs old?

If you are, here''s my opinion - marriage is generally not the main focus of most 20-something guys, but it is a more common priority in most 20-something girls. Mainly because society puts pressure on 20-something girls to be married (although the average age of the women getting married had increased, the pressure is inevitably there). Your bf may not understand the pressure you are getting, so let him know how you feel. I don''t think he is purposely getting your hopes up by telling you that someone inquires about the car. He probably just want to let you know what''s going on, not knowing that it''s hurting you. If you know he wants to be with you and you want to be with him and he is trying to become financially stable in order to marry you, then isn''t it all that matter (despite the pressure you are getting)? I know it''s hard for you to endure the pressure but give him some time (otherwise you are putting pressure on him and you will feel twice as bad). It sounds like your bf genuinely care and love you and wants to do his best for your future together.

On the other hand, I guess this is easy for me to say because none of my friends are married, so I had not gotten any pressure from anyone. Although I feel like some of my friends feel pressured because I got engaged and they are still singles. But I am not out there giving them a hard time, so it''s ok.

Keep us updated with your situation.

 

[verticalhorizon]

Oh there are several issues here...

1. It''s not uncommon for you, to be in a relationship of 3 years (or 5 if you count the prior friendship as time already served), to turn your thoughts towards marriage.

2. Debt weighs heavily on everyone, especially men b/c we feel society''s pressure to be the main bread-winner, even though two-income households have been the norm for years.

3. Sure it''s better to enter a marriage without money-related-baggage, but also, marriage isn''t about jumping in when everything''s perfect. If that were the case, no one would ever get married. (Britney Spears, are you listening?!)

4. No one says that you need a ring to be engaged. That''s hogwash. Certainly, no one NEEDS a diamond. I know that may seem like blasphemy on a forum ABOUT DIAMONDS, but I think we all agree that its more important to stay within your means and get married when you feel its right.

You should have a heart to heart talk with your guy, without the pressure of WHEN you''ll get married, but more about how you both view your situation at this moment in time. If he can open up to you and explain how much his debt really weighs him down, try to come up with a plan on how to get out of it.

This does NOT mean give him money to pay it off. I''m a firm believer in that he has to do this for himself. And if he''a s guy worth his salt, he''ll want to do it himself too. But as they say, it''s all in the details. Selling your mode of transportation generally isn''t the best way to do it... unless it''s an extra car or project car he''s working on.

Make a budget and stick to it. Make large dinners and save the leftovers to lunch or dinner. Bring your lunch to work. Make coffee at home instead of going to Starbucks. Rent movies (or join Netflix) instead of going out to the theater. Play board games.

But while the slow-and-steady method of debt recovery is just that, there''s no reason to not reward yourselves every once and a while. Set aside a little Reward cash every month to blow on silly stuff... but when it''s gone, it''s gone.

If this isn''t working, or you''re behind on payments, or it is too slow, then consider debt management companies. But do your homework first. Get referrals. Some of these places are scams, or at least not very professional or helpful.

Ok, enough of the debt management. My point was that, if his issue really is his debt and not the relationship, then, once he starts to feel better about his money situation, there would be no barrier to getting married. If he feels guitly about not buying a diamond ring, get an alternative or plan on buying one oen your 1, 2, or 5 year anniversary.

If there''s trust AND love, there''s no barrier to getting married. A wedding lasts a day, a marriage should last forever.

Good luck.

 

[VAgal13]

VH- it''s great to see you online here again! Secondly, you give some very sound advice.

I too am still waiting for my man to ask, but honestly felt better after reading your post. Thank you very much.

You''re going to make an excellent husband! How are the wedding plans coming along?( I noticed the Groomzilla at the end)

-VA gal

 

[Beekie]

Well everyone, thank you so much for the encouragment!
You are right about my man....he is just that...a man who wants to do things right for his girl.

When I got back from visiting my family during christmas he said he was looking at rings! Boy was I surprised. And then we went to the jewelry store together just so he could get an idea of my personal tastes/likes/dislikes. It was so fun and exciting to do that together, like a big weight has been lifted off my heart. It is just nice to know he is definitely thinking of me and as soon as his car sells (hopefully soon) then there will be nothing stopping him from getting the ring he wants for me. You''re right, men and women are different about this kind of thing. And I''m grateful he has been so responsible with his money because ultimately, he is thinking of US. It is just so hard for me, emotionally, to remember that. I know the women here can relate.
He is 30yrs old, I''m 24, and we are both ready to be married. Maybe 2005 will be the year - he says he doesn''t not want to wait any longer. I think this whole time of waiting for him to pay off a large amount of his debt has been good in a lot of ways (though I have hated waiting and wondering). Everything is going to work out fine, because I''ve got a great honey.

 

[qtiekiki]

See, things are working out already. Us, female, are sometimes too emotionally to be rational.

So what are you thinking about for your ering?

 

[Erin]

Although how many times can you get good advice saying just hang in there - when months and months later it still hasn''t happened. It''s hard not to let it consume you. I''m 29, he''s 31 dating almost 4 years - been talking about marriage for 3.5.

 

[codex57]

Date: 1/4/2005 3:53:31 PM
Author: Erin
Although how many times can you get good advice saying just hang in there - when months and months later it still hasn''t happened. It''s hard not to let it consume you. I''m 29, he''s 31 dating almost 4 years - been talking about marriage for 3.5.

My fiancee thought about it for 6 years before I finally put a ring on her finger. Hey, us guys can be incredibly slow.

 

[nicknomo]

If he is trying to get money to pay for it, then you really have nothing to worry about. I personally think the worst thing you can do is pressure him. A lot of guys do not respond well to this.

It sounds like he is having financial trouble. With this in mind, being that you want to get married, maybe it would be best for you to just get a ring.. not a great ring, but something easily affordable. If I was you, and I wanted to get the rest of my life started I''d be buying my ring at Walmart.

You see, in my opinion the actual ring is worthless (then again, I''m a guy). Engagement/Marriage IMO isn''t about getting a diamond on your hand. It''s about being together, with the one you love, forever. Sometimes it is easier on the guy if you take the pressure off of him of having to pay these huge sums of money, and do everything quickly. You don''t have to get married right away either... You can be engaged and just wait.. there is no difference as long as the sentiment is valid.

Of course if it is very important to you to get a nice ring (not that there is anything wrong with that), you may have to just wait. I was lucky... I have a good job, no debt, plenty saved... I bought a nice big ring, cash. However, if I didn''t have my job, with not that much saved, and a lot of debt.. I wouldn''t have been able to provide the ring my woman wanted. I''d think waiting to give her what she wants would be better than getting her something sort of crappy and getting engaged sooner. Maybe your boyfriend is thinking along those lines.

It seems like the choice is may actually be up to you. A low cost ring would probably facilitate things greatly. I''m sure if you decided to go this route, and let him know then you''d be engaged much quicker.

 

[Mocha]

Hey there...I can relate too. I''m 24, he''s 25, together for 7 years. Let''s pray 2005 is our year. It is sooo hard to be patient, I know. I am constantly reminding myself not to pressure him...but it''s hard. He will be the first of his group of friends to be engaged. I, on the other hand, will be the last out of my girlfriends as they are all either married or engaged. It sucks to be in this situation and waiting patiently...

 

[codex57]

Date: 1/6/2005 12:25:33 AM
Author: nicknomo
Of course if it is very important to you to get a nice ring (not that there is anything wrong with that), you may have to just wait. I was lucky... I have a good job, no debt, plenty saved... I bought a nice big ring, cash. However, if I didn''t have my job, with not that much saved, and a lot of debt.. I wouldn''t have been able to provide the ring my woman wanted. I''d think waiting to give her what she wants would be better than getting her something sort of crappy and getting engaged sooner. Maybe your boyfriend is thinking along those lines.


It seems like the choice is may actually be up to you. A low cost ring would probably facilitate things greatly. I''m sure if you decided to go this route, and let him know then you''d be engaged much quicker.

It could be male pride too. You may not care and will accept a smaller ring in exchange for getting engaged sooner. However, he may be too embarassed to give you a ring that''s no worthy of you in his eyes. That was my problem. I rpolly could have gone smaller, but pride made me want to wait until I got a steady job and could afford one I could be proud of saying I got her. Some of our friend were engaged/married already so I wanted to at least be able to stay close with some of them and beat down the ones I didn''t like. In the end, I prolly went overboard, but that''s my wallet''s problem and that just made her happier.

 

[captainahab]

Beekie. My views may be nontraditional, but if your guy tells you he wants to be with you forever, that''s all that matters. That''s what a marriage is anyway, a ceremony to ANNOUNCE what you two have already agreed upon in private.

My girlfriend and I have been together for 4 years and we''re not married, we know we will be, but we''re waiting for the right time for both of us. If you look back in the forums you''ll see that I first started looking at diamonds over a year ago, and I''ve been putting money away ever since, but I still haven''t found the one I really want. It takes time, but she''s okay with it because she knows my intentions.

With the divorce rate in this country about %50, it obviously isn''t the ring or the ceremony that makes a marriage work, so focus on the important thing: each other.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Date: 1/6/2005 5:39:40 PM
Author: codex57

Date: 1/6/2005 12:25:33 AM
Author: nicknomo
Of course if it is very important to you to get a nice ring (not that there is anything wrong with that), you may have to just wait. I was lucky... I have a good job, no debt, plenty saved... I bought a nice big ring, cash. However, if I didn''t have my job, with not that much saved, and a lot of debt.. I wouldn''t have been able to provide the ring my woman wanted. I''d think waiting to give her what she wants would be better than getting her something sort of crappy and getting engaged sooner. Maybe your boyfriend is thinking along those lines.


It seems like the choice is may actually be up to you. A low cost ring would probably facilitate things greatly. I''m sure if you decided to go this route, and let him know then you''d be engaged much quicker.

It could be male pride too. You may not care and will accept a smaller ring in exchange for getting engaged sooner. However, he may be too embarassed to give you a ring that''s no worthy of you in his eyes. That was my problem. I rpolly could have gone smaller, but pride made me want to wait until I got a steady job and could afford one I could be proud of saying I got her. Some of our friend were engaged/married already so I wanted to at least be able to stay close with some of them and beat down the ones I didn''t like. In the end, I prolly went overboard, but that''s my wallet''s problem and that just made her happier.

I''ll agree with this.

My lass didn''t want anything too big... and said nothing larger than 1/2ct. but I wanted to get something that in my eyes said everything about how I felt about her. and the only way i could think of doing this is while small... have it perfectly formed, seeing it as someone has taken as much care over the cutting, etc. and as i do about her.

In the end to her, she loves the amount of effort has gone into the choosing. And as she says i could give her a candy ring and she''d be happy.

At the end of the day - its the commitment between the 2 of you, not the symbol thats important... the ring can always be changed at a later time when means permiitt. But the getting yourselves in a better finance position does make alot of sense. We''re in the same position, left University not many years ago, and setting ourselves up, for us, the timeing and financial timing is right.

It''ll happen when it happens. Before that is (good or bad) the excitement of the waiting.

 

[PrincessBride]

Hey Beekie,

You think waiting 3 years to get married is long, try 7! Like you, I was ready to get married 2 years ago. I am 27 and he''s 29, will be 28 and 30 in the summer, respectively. He keeps telling me he is not financially ready even though he has money saved up and holds stocks and mutual funds all that goody whereas I''m the one in credit card debts (will be all paid off before this summer--that''s my goal). We both are working steady jobs. He has his masters degree and everything and he comes from a family of doctors.

I don''t believe in giving ultimatums, but told him that if he wasn''t serious then he needs to let me know so that he doesn''t waste my youth. He says that he does want to marry me. He told me 6 months ago that we''re going ring shopping in which we did. His brother was looking for an engagement ring around the same time. I didn''t hear anything about a ring for the months. His brother even bought the ring and already proposed. He figures that he still has time since we didn''t plan to actually marry til 2006. But he didn''t finally buy the ring last weekend. He hasn''t proposed yet. I''m still waiting for that.

So, 3 years is nothing...I''ve waited 7 years.

 

[codex57]

Date: 1/20/2005 5:41:30 PM
Author: PrincessBride

So, 3 years is nothing...I''ve waited 7 years.

See! I knew my g/f had nothing to complain about. She didn''t have to wait 7 years.




















It was only 6 1/2.

 

[PrincessBride]

Date: 1/20/2005 8:17:57 PM
Author: codex57

Date: 1/20/2005 5:41:30 PM
Author: PrincessBride

So, 3 years is nothing...I''ve waited 7 years.

See! I knew my g/f had nothing to complain about. She didn''t have to wait 7 years.




















It was only 6 1/2.

You are too funny!

 

[fortheloveofdiamonds]

I LOOOOVED being boyfriend and girlfriend. Dated for about 4 years, always knew we were going to get married someday... I think all should enjoy this time as bf/gf b/c it is so darned exciting. That said!! I LOOOOOVED being engaged...and now I LOOOOVE being married.

Men are like this: If it aint broke, why fix it. They LOVE the relationship the way it is and don''t see why it needs to be changed? I am not saying that it is right..it just is...

Enjoy all your time together. Marriage is a lifelong committment, why stress about the public statement of your love???

 

[peptidbond]

I am a guy that is getting engaged soon. Here is my point of view:

Brooke and I have been dating for 5 years and we are now both barely still in our twenties. 5 years is a long time. However, both of us have been on the same page the entire time. We talk regularly about this stuff. First about dating, and then about BF and GF. Last year, the conversations turned to marriage. At that time, we were both sure we would marry each other. It was then a question of when we were ready to do it. If you are not talking about this stuff, then that is something you need to correct. DON''T pressure, but talk. When we started talking about marriage, it was pretty clear that Brooke was ready, but was I?

I, in fact, was not ready and it had nothing at all to do with Brooke. I wanted to make sure that I would be a good, LIFE LONG, husband. I come from a divorsed family afterall. I wanted to make sure I would not make mistakes. I have taken a year to ensure that I am ready and that I will do my best for Brooke. I had some ideas that were wrong and had to be put to bed. I had some habits that I needed to correct. I had to get myself in shape for the long haul. Your boyfriend may be doing the same. He may have his own issues that are not necessarily financial. He may be preparing himself to be the best for you. Do you really want to rush this process?

Finally, why the rush at all? The best place to be is where you are. It is not the destination, but the journey. At least, that is how I look at it. Granted, marriage brings security and that is important. However, I feel that people (usually women, but not always) are in too much of a rush to get married. I have two friends that are married. The wife grew up around many siblings and has always wanted to be a mother and right away. Once she even said "my uterus is screaming at me in my sleep" (no joke). They rushed to get married and were quickly unhappy. They then rushed to fix the situation with kids. That has not panned out and it has made it worse. Now, they are married with no children and wishing they could go back to dating. If security is all you are after and you know he wants to marry you, then you likely already have it. If you trust him and you discuss this issue, then you should already have the security marriage would bring.

Okay, just a couple more short points. Many people find themselves quite unhappy in the first year of marriage. This is because they had a fairy tale dream of marriage. Fact is, life is very much the same the day before the wedding and the day after (especially if you already live together).
Back to Brooke and I. Brooke and I were discussing marriage again over dinner on Monday (also our "anniversary"). She sent me a clear signal that I had about another year to get in shape or she would be upset, but still mine for life. I was bursting inside because I had just received the diamond that day. I still have to wait for our trip to Chicago and it is killing me.

I wish you both the best of luck!

 

[afitzhugh]

You know ladies, you could short-circuit the whole process by proposing to him Worked well for some good friends of mine!