complicated situation

[pauloyd]

Hello everyone. I have a unique situation in which my girlfriend''s Mom is now divorced and the Dad is somewhat estranged. Back in May, right before they would all be in town for her Graduate School graduation, I called her Mom to ask for her blessing. They still have a parent/child as opposed to adult/adult relationship and her Mom always wishes she''d come back home and she told me that she hardly knows me and that she hasn''t talked to her daughter about me a lot and she really needs to think things over and asked me to at least wait.

She raised concerns about her daughter stayin in DC just for me, and not really knowing what love is, thing slike that. Mostly cuz they don''t communicate openly and honestly I think, and cuz her mom went through a terrible marriage and divorce - even though it was 10 years ago. The father was slightly abusive.

So of course I defended myself and might of said some stupid things but she seemed ok with it until I wrote her a few days later saying i was going to go ahead anyway (but that i had thought about it). She went nuts and tracked down her daughter at my house that night and told her i was going to propose (even though i didn''t have the ring yet) and ruined te whole thing and upset my girlfriend.

Well months and months later, we have decided we are ready to get engaged (again) and are visiting her Mom next weekend to tell her. Any tips? Advice? I have the ring, would it be better to propose before we go or after?

 

[Hest88]

I think if you don't want to ask her for her blessing again, you should propose first and the two of you can tell her that you're engaged when you see her.

If you're worried that she'll go ballistic, you can always not propose, talk it over with her again and see if you can get her blessing again, and then propose. But really, it's up to your GF.

 

[mostlywatching]

If you and your girlfriend are in love, and you've talked about marriage before, I say go for it. You've already shown that you would like to have her mother's blessing, and the mother's reaction seemed unreasonable, although I'm sure it seemed reasonable to her. I'm assuming you are both over 18, and as such are adults who can make their own decisions. I completely understand her mom only wanting what's best for her daughter, but not all parent know how to express that rationally.


Point being, she's had months to get to know you and to see that you aren't ruining her daughter's life, you'rein fact making her very happy. If you get engaged and tell her afterwards, she should be nothing but happy for her daughter. If you make her daughter happy, she should be ecstatic that you've offered to do so for the rest of your lives. If she can't share your joy, then I'd say her priorities are a bit misplaced.

 

[pauloyd]

Yes, thank you for the great advice so far! We are both 26... She is an amazing person and I love her very much (obviously) but she has a lot of trouble doing things that will, or that she is afraid will, upset her Mom because her and her sister are 'all she's got.' I'm afraid of having more joy sucked out of something so inherently joyful... My girlfriend thinks we will get engaged sometime in October, so I could certainly gain some surprise back by doing it before we go but I don't want to set myself further back with the Mom.

 

[nicknomo]

I too have had to deal with a lot of bullsh** from parents, and a lot of them don't know what's good for themselves let alone their children. I have long since taken the policy of not asking permission for anything, including the proposal.

This may not be the best route for all, but really it is the best way to establish some control IMO.

I consider what your soon to be mother-in-law did as unethical. If it was me, I would go ahead without involving her parents at all.

 

[quaeritur]

I cannot possibly offer an unbiased opinion. You just described my mother. While she didn't ruin the proposal, she tried her hardest to ruin our relationship, our wedding, our marriage. If this woman is anything like my smother (spelling intended), I absolutely believe you should propose before or completely separately from your visit. You tried once to involve her, reasonably, and she responded irrationally and cruelly. You shouldn't give her a second chance.

Trust me, draw that line now, and establish your independence from her. No need to be mean, or rude, just separate.

Not that this is about me, but my mom didn't like our wedding invitations, so she made her own and sent them out. For a wedding she didn't contribute a penny to, and a relationship she always opposed. She wouldn't even tell us who she'd invited, or how many people.

I got a bouncer for the reception. A week before the wedding, I told her I would turn away anyone not on our guest list, and she beat me

.

Sorry, too much info, I'm sure, and hopefully your future mother-in-law is nowhere near this crazy, but I really do recommend establishing boundaries early and consistently.

Best of luck with starting this new chapter in your lives with the girl you love.

 

[quaeritur]

Oh wait, she DID try to ruin the proposal! Fortunately it was a surprise, so she couldn't, but the moment she saw the ring she dragged me and it to a diamond store (we were in Amsterdam) to find out what it was worth.

 

[roadpupp]

I say, you reached out to the mom once. Now she doesn't need to be consulted at all. Have a great time with the proposal.

 

[aljdewey]

You're both 26. You aren't children. If you want to be treated like adults, you need to act like adults. That means you have to make your decisions and forgo asking for approval or permission.

This person has ruined a proposal once...that was shame on her. If you allow another chance for her to ruin it, it will be shame on you.

Propose to you GF in advance of the next visit, and INFORM the FMIL that you ARE engaged....nicely....and express your hope that she'll share in your happiness.

 

[pauloyd]

Thanks to all for your advice! I am definitely not asking for her blessing again. So, this whole trauma certainly ruined my surprise. To counter that I've been giving her clues for the past few weeks that she has to figure out. Each points to a relevant place that we've had special moments together. Then she marks them all on a map, and it will form the letter J (which is her first initial). The letter points towards the final place when I am going to propose. She thinks then we will probably take a tour of all the places before winding up in the surprise final place. But my current plan is to surprise her early because she thinks there are 3 more clues, so after 1 more I can do the deed. Just take her to the place and surprise her. Do you think that is the best plan, or would it be more romantic to take a chauffered tour of all the places first, which would make it obvious...

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Gale]

Which option makes your heart sing? Waiting until all of the clues have been presented, or doing it 2 clues before the end? Do the thing that speaks to you the most.

 

[JimDiamond]

That is a real unfortunate situation. You called her mother in good faith. It was pretty underhanded to call her daughter and spoil your surprise. If she, "didn't know you well enough" as she put it, that was her fault not yours. If she hasn't maintained open lines of communication with her daughter, that's her fault not yours. Therefore mom had her chance to be involved and she blew it. So you should inform her after the engagement as a courtesy, but not before.

Okay, that was the purely rational side. The problem is your girlfriend's feelings about her mother will not be completely rational. What you left out of your post is what was your g/f's reaction to the spoiled proposal. Was she angry at her mom, at you, at the stituation? If she realizes that her mom is not contributing to the health of her relationship and success then you may be able to simply inform mom of the various developments along the way. If, however, which is more likely, she is conflicted and guilty about her mom's reaction then you will have to talk to her to find out what she is comfortable with and what she is WILLING to do. So my question to you is, how did she feel about it and react when her mom called her? How did she feel and react during the weeks/months that followed? Logic alone won't do here. If she has an unhealthy relationship/dependency on her mother counseling may help her if she realizes that she needs help to come to terms with it. If she is willing to just ignore/dismiss her mother and her reactions then she may be able to be more logical about her decisons.

 

[Gale]

That's very sound advice JimDiamond.

 

[sparkler29]

You have made, IMO, the right choice by going ahead and planning your proposal. You made an attempt to get your GF's mother's blessing, but unfortunately not everyone is rational and mature. From reading about your proposal idea, you sound like a caring and thoughtful person who clearly loves his GF a great deal.

My fiance's parents had a horrible marriage and a very traumatic divorce, followed by additional family tragedy. Emotional abuse by his father rendered his mother a fearful person with no self-confidence. While these events took place over 15 years ago, the pain and bitterness will never go away. This is something you take on as a spouse or partner of someone who has dealt with family trauma for much of their young lives. My fiance is very protective of his mother (who luckily is very sweet) and this has been an issue between us on more than one occasion. It takes a strong and confident person to step back and allow your partner to deal with family issues on their own terms. At the same time, this is a special time for you and your GF, and you should both allow yourselves to enjoy it.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's easy for those of us who come from strong and loving families to say "get over it," but it's just not reality. These family dynamics will exist for a long time, and it's up to you as a couple to define your relationship and how much or little you want the rest of the family involved. It's a process and certainly takes a long time to evolve. Best of luck to you and enjoy your engagement!!

 

[pauloyd]

Thank you so much for great advice from all perspectives. My girlfriend definitely was very upset after her mom ruined the initial engagement. She was upset at times at me for decisions I made, upset at her mom for what she did, upset that there would always be a black mark on her engagement, etc... But a lot of that was just initial emotional reation.

As time has passed, she seems to have pretty much come to realize her Mom's role as the problem and not be upset with me at all. I believe I could have handled her Mom's telling me to wait in a better, less-defensive way but it was a very unexpected and difficult situation. She understands this. And like one of you so perfectly pointed out, its very difficult for me to understand that emotional burden she must be under because of her family situation. She does feel guilty when she upsets her Mom, and some of that is not good, but its also a very complicated situation. And I thikn you make some very good points in that I must respect the love of my life in dealing with everything, because I don't realize how difficult it is for her- and she needs my support.

So I think I will go home with her next weekend and just try and be there with her and let her deal with her family how she wants to. They say that if your family is not going to be excited for you then surround yourself with friends who will, so I am going to have a bunch of friends waiting by to celebrate after I propose.This way she can still share her joy with people she knows will be happy with her.

Thanks everyone! You truly have made me feel better about my situation, and given me confidence in my handling of it.

 

[JimDiamond]

I think your plan is excellent. Just as you said and realize keep in mind that her mom may cause disruption and she may be conflicted because of it. Encourage her to talk about her feelings and help her work through them. Try not make judgements. If you love each other and you can communicate openly and comfortably then you can work through everything you need to. Congratulations and best of luck! Let us know how it goes of course.

 

[fancycoloredfan]

Oh wow...

Quaeritur - your mom sounds like my mom. My heart goes out to you. I'm reading your post and I can't believe what I'm reading! Our moms would be buddies, that's for sure.

Yes - I agree w/ the others - go ahead w/ the proposal.

With a mother(in law) like that - you or your fiance will never be able to "please" her so just do what pleases you instead. You can't do "normal" things when the relationship is abnormal to begin with. Your girlfriend's relationship w/ her mom is like my relationship w/ my mom. It just gets worse as my mom gets older unfortunately...

 

[glitterata]

What an interesting thread! This is why I always think it's a bad idea to ask permission before proposing. The person asking may think it's just a ritual, but the person being asked may think he or she actually has the right to prevent the marriage from going ahead.

Asking for a blessing is slightly different--it's clearer that the person asking is making a gesture, not offering the askee a chance to prevent the marriage. But that doesn't stop the askee from freaking out and trying to control her daughter's life when he or she is as anxious and immature as the mother in this story.

 

[pauloyd]

Well time for an update. I am still kinda struggling I guess. We went home to see her family last weekend and her Mom and I got along well and everyone hada great time. I left it up to my girlfriend to determine if she wanted to bring it up or not, and she said an opportune time never came up, so the whole situation was never discussed. That is okay because she has to feel comfortable. But now we are in limbo and I just kinda feel sad.

She is very stressed about it all and as of right now I don't have the green light. The more this drags on, the less magical i feel the moment will be. So I guess I will wait until she talks to her Mom some more, although I see no signs of her ever doing this. When I bring it up she gets stressed by it. I just want her to be happy but she has to help herself too...

 

[quaeritur]

UGH... my heart really goes out to you. This is supposed to be your (you and your GF's) special time. I wish I had answers for you, but I guess this is just something she's going to have to figure out. I'm sure she has very conflicting emotions right now, and maybe ten years from now she'll be able to look back and realize that she should have kept her mom out of this, but right now she probably craves her mom's approval and wants it to be perfect. Sadly, that seems unlikely to happen.

As long as her mom has so much influence over her, this will be a very difficult situation to resolve. Can you have an honest and open discussion about that, without talking about the engagement? Another thing that might help is to see a couples counselor -it can really help sort out the baggage, and find ways to manage the situation, or at least the emotions surrounding the situation.

I guess the bottom line is that she needs your support. At the same time, you need to be your own person, and not let her mother dictate the terms of your relationship. Tough balance to strike.

Again, I'm so sorry you're going through this!