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Bad proposal!

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Ty Cobb

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I know the important thing is that they are happy yada yada yada, however I have a friend in Florida who recently became engaged, and even as a guy I think her fiance'' did a horrible job all around.

1st: When he asked permission he asked both parents. Fine I can look around that, me personally I am too traditionalist in that matter but no biggie here. The problem was, he asked with her in the room. I can see it now, him asking with her between him and her father. Just not good in my opinion.

2nd: They announced their engagement and he hasn''t even technically proposed! He hasn''t even bought the ring or really gone shopping yet!!


I am sorry, I am happy for her, but this is just kinda.........ya know dissappointing!

Am I just being a traditional minded SOB, or does this bother anyone else?
 

Clio

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It really depends on what she wanted.

Ok, so I do think that asking for the parents'' permission with her in the room is weird, but not the end of the world.

As for announcing their engagement before he had purchased a ring - this is something that is going to vary from relationship to relationship. I''m someone who feels that you are engaged when you seriously agree to get married. The ring is a nice symbol but ultimately superfluous. My husband and I sat down one day with a calendar and picked a date. At that point, we were engaged. No bended knee or diamond required. At that point in my life, I honestly had no desire for a diamond (silly girl!) and told him that. He wanted to get me an engagement ring, so I happily let him.

When I got the diamond ring, we already had a date, a location, and I had a dress. It all worked out for us, but other people will have different feelings and expectations. I do think that the important thing is that they are both happy.

Now, if she is unhappy with the way events have unfolded, then they may have a problem because it indicates that they may not be communicating very well.
 

MoonWater

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It''s odd that you post this today. Just last night my bf and I were talking about the fiance'' status thing. A guy I work with already refers to my bf only as my fiance'' because we are simply too close to it being official. I mentioned this to my boyfriend because I think it''s cute how the guy at work has a sorta, I dunno, it''s like a sense of respect for the seriousness of my relationship. My bf responded that he almost started calling me his fiance''. Because really, we''re engaged. We just don''t have the ring yet, he hasn''t "formally" asked me, and we haven''t made a formal announcement. We''re both trying to avoid all the family involvement that comes with an official annoucement as we aren''t ready to deal with that yet. But if a couple is ready for that aspect, a ring isn''t necessary at all.
 

musey

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Date: 10/25/2007 1:24:15 PM
Author:Ty Cobb

Am I just being a traditional minded SOB, or does this bother anyone else?
Doesn't bother me. But then, it's none of my business--as it is their engagement, not mine.

Point 1... if my FI had asked permission, I would have preferred him to ask both parents. My father does not have "ownership" over me, and even if he did, he certainly wouldn't have any more claim on me than my mother. I would have been slightly offended if he'd asked at all, but even more so had he asked only my father (but that's ME and MY preferences, and hardly applies to everyone).

Point 2... That's entirely their prerogative. If they are officially planning to get married, then they are already essentially engaged. However, many couples get engaged without proposals OR rings. I think, if anything, it's a good sign of their equal roles in the relationship. For me, what made us officially engaged was the proposal and (even more so) the announcement to friends & families. Maybe the announcement was what made it official to them.


The only reason for anyone to be bothered by this is if either she or her fiance are unhappy with the process they've chosen (and it seems to me that she must be happy with it, otherwise she would likely object to announcing their engagement publicly). It's not really anyone else's business.

If my FI had gone about it in the same way, I would have been less than thrilled--but he knew me well enough to approach the engagement in a way I was comfortable with. More than likely, the couple in question was the same--and this is what was right for them.
 

MoonWater

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I concur with musey, but what else is new?
 

musey

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Date: 10/25/2007 6:35:48 PM
Author: MoonWater
I concur with musey, but what else is new?
LOL, moonwater! We must be very similar, you and I
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MoonWater

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Date: 10/25/2007 6:40:42 PM
Author: musey

Date: 10/25/2007 6:35:48 PM
Author: MoonWater
I concur with musey, but what else is new?
LOL, moonwater! We must be very similar, you and I
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Indeed. I have to say, I was slightly offended by the original post.
 

Ty Cobb

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I guess I am just too traditionally minded. My point is this though:

Point 1: It doesn't bother me that he asked both parents, I find it funny that he asked her mother, but that is no big deal, the deal to me though is that he didn't have the guts enough to ask without her there. It was kinda like he was hiding behind her kind of thing. I don't think the answer would have been different, but as a guy who had to deal with the nervousness of asking, it is just odd to me.

Point 2: It isn't wether or not the get a ring. They are going to get a ring. They are going to get one in like 3 weeks and he is going to do the proposal thing. I just don't see why they couldn't wait 3 weeks to announce it for a wedding that is gonna take place in over a year from now.

Again, maybe I am too much of a traditionalists, however, most of my friends and my GF's friends agree that it is an odd way to go about it.
 

Fly Girl

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I think there is waaaaaay too much emphasis on some sort of fancy proposal. There is no need for a ring, a big trip, a nice dinner, or any of that stuff. There is nothing wrong with the couple speaking to both parents about their plans to be married. I see nothing wrong here at all.

There is no right or wrong way to become engaged. Just an agreement that you love each other and want to spend your lives together is enough for an engagement to be official in my book.

After 32 years of marriage, I find it is best to keep my expectations low. Then I am pleasantly surprised when he does something charming. If you expect something to be really neat and fancy, then you set yourself up to be disappointed.
 

MoonWater

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Date: 10/26/2007 11:21:20 AM
Author: Ty Cobb
I guess I am just too traditionally minded. My point is this though:

Point 1: It doesn''t bother me that he asked both parents, I find it funny that he asked her mother, but that is no big deal, the deal to me though is that he didn''t have the guts enough to ask without her there. It was kinda like he was hiding behind her kind of thing. I don''t think the answer would have been different, but as a guy who had to deal with the nervousness of asking, it is just odd to me.

Point 2: It isn''t wether or not the get a ring. They are going to get a ring. They are going to get one in like 3 weeks and he is going to do the proposal thing. I just don''t see why they couldn''t wait 3 weeks to announce it for a wedding that is gonna take place in over a year from now.

Again, maybe I am too much of a traditionalists, however, most of my friends and my GF''s friends agree that it is an odd way to go about it.
Ok, but why do you feel the need to be critical and judgemental of others based on what is nothing more than your personal preference. No offense, but it is you that seems odd to me. Actually, it seems like there is something else going on behind the scenes in regards to how you feel about this guy. Why do you think he was hiding behind his future fiance'' instead of choosing to ask together as a couple? What exactly is wrong with her being there? Why should he only ask dad and not mom? Frankly, I think mom''s are more entitled, after all, they carried us for 9 freaking months and had to push us out.

In regards to waiting to make an annoucement, why do they need to wait? If they are happy and excited, why not share? Just because it was only 3 weeks before getting the ring? Who cares?
 

BriBee

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Date: 10/25/2007 3:30:20 PM
Author: MoonWater
It''s odd that you post this today. Just last night my bf and I were talking about the fiance'' status thing. A guy I work with already refers to my bf only as my fiance'' because we are simply too close to it being official. I mentioned this to my boyfriend because I think it''s cute how the guy at work has a sorta, I dunno, it''s like a sense of respect for the seriousness of my relationship. My bf responded that he almost started calling me his fiance''. Because really, we''re engaged. We just don''t have the ring yet, he hasn''t ''formally'' asked me, and we haven''t made a formal announcement. We''re both trying to avoid all the family involvement that comes with an official annoucement as we aren''t ready to deal with that yet. But if a couple is ready for that aspect, a ring isn''t necessary at all.
I think this is really funny because the people we work with do the same thing, except they call me his wife and him my husband. It''s weird because we''re not even technically engaged yet. We know we''re getting married, we''ve discussed dates, and the ring is here, but no formal announcements have been made or anything. In fact, the work people have been using the husband/wife terms for at least a year! It''s so weird. They''ll say somehthing to me like: "Where''s your husband, I need to talk to him..."
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sputat

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How you described the proposal is what I would call a "traditional" Filipino proposal.

The groom-to-be (and his parents) asks the bride-to-be's parents for her hand in marriage.. and she is in the same room (I picture her sitting next to her fiance). He tells her parents of his sincere intention of marrying their daughter... and in a way, it becomes the meeting of the families.

There is no diamond engagement ring. No on bended knee. No surprise proposal.

My fiance is not Filipino. If he were, the above is what I would describe as my dream proposal.

ETA: Not trying to pick a fight but what you noted as a horrible proposal is well, what I would've liked... though my fiance's proposal ain't too shabby either.
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MoonWater

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Date: 10/26/2007 12:56:49 PM
Author: BriBee

I think this is really funny because the people we work with do the same thing, except they call me his wife and him my husband. It''s weird because we''re not even technically engaged yet. We know we''re getting married, we''ve discussed dates, and the ring is here, but no formal announcements have been made or anything. In fact, the work people have been using the husband/wife terms for at least a year! It''s so weird. They''ll say somehthing to me like: ''Where''s your husband, I need to talk to him...''
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They''re just preparing for the inevitable!
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musey

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Date: 10/26/2007 12:50:57 PM
Author: MoonWater

Ok, but why do you feel the need to be critical and judgemental of others based on what is nothing more than your personal preference. No offense, but it is you that seems odd to me. Actually, it seems like there is something else going on behind the scenes in regards to how you feel about this guy. Why do you think he was hiding behind his future fiance'' instead of choosing to ask together as a couple? What exactly is wrong with her being there? Why should he only ask dad and not mom? Frankly, I think mom''s are more entitled, after all, they carried us for 9 freaking months and had to push us out.

In regards to waiting to make an annoucement, why do they need to wait? If they are happy and excited, why not share? Just because it was only 3 weeks before getting the ring? Who cares?
Ditto ditto!
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You know, this sort of judgmental behavior is precisely why I haven''t revealed details of my own proposal to anyone I know IRL. I thought it was perfect in every way (and perfect for US-as that is what matters), but there are elements that other people would view as inappropriate or non-traditional. So it''s much simpler to just keep all those details to myself.

All anyone knows is the date it happened and that my ring is purty
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Pandora II

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The vast majority of people I know in the UK (myself included) have a proposal, announce it officially to family and friends, and then go ring-shopping together. I only know one person who had a surprise ring on the day.

My official e-ring wasn't on my finger until June this year, but I was officially engaged on Christmas Eve 2006. He asked me while I was sitting watching TV in my pj's and wrapped in a duvet, looking terrible. It was the most perfect proposal I could have had and 6 months of planning had gone into it.

A proposal is the commitment to marry and spend one's life together; rings, roses, fancy dinners and trips to Paris are lovely extras, but an engagement they do not make.

That said, I do think the asking the parents in front of her a bit weird. Re the BOTH parents thing - what's so odd with that? Many people come from divorced, widowed, single parent backgrounds, or - like me - feel that they are not someone's property and that she will give permission herself thank you very much!


It is good to see that people like you want to put effort into your proposal, kudos to you.
 

Rhea

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My DH never offically proposed or asked if I wanted to get married in any way, shape, or form...but we''ve been married for almost 2 years. All that''s needed for engagement is for the couple to agree to get married, which in our case didn''t even require a question being asked by him.

It''s not that you''re too traditional, it''s just that there are many different ways to do any one thing and that includes getting engaged. If that doesn''t work for you then do it differently.
 

gt6974a

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you sound a little jumpy...

I can say this... I''ve been with my g/f for 7 years, I''m 29 she''s 27. She''s been thru both my sister''s weddings, one was last month, one two years ago, and my step-sister is getting married literally this Saturday.

I would consider myself a traditionalist except for the situation. I always claimed I wouldn''t get married until 30 and she talked me into it 6 months early, 12 months early b/c I''d never get married during football season.

We moved in together last year, been 13 months, we have a very nice combined income but still rent. I was initially more pratical than she was but she came around..... until this wedding. Now she wants the world (not bad though)

Once I agreed, she was off to the races. We have the date, caterer, location, etc.... why b/c she knows what she wants and she doesn''t want to lose it no matter when I propose. We''ve looked at rings together but I have to make the final call. I have most of the cash for the ring, but I live very debt free and ''safety'' cash around. I said give me a few months for the ring..., she was fine with that.

I''ll ovbiously meet ''with'' her parents and ask for her hand, but at this point it''s kind of dumb. They''re already forking money out for the wedding, they know me very well, all they talk about is grandchildren..... But again 7 years is a long time considering her parents got married at 18.

I look at it this way.... we all have a 50:50 shot of the marriage surviving, why sweat the small stuff
 

love is in the air

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the ring doesn''t make the engagement ''official''. the decision to get married does. I announced my engagement before I had picked out my ring. in fact, I still don''t understand the "I picked out my ring and now it''s hidden away waiting for the proposal" thing at all.
 

Fly Girl

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Date: 11/8/2007 1:28:23 AM
Author: gt6974a
you sound a little jumpy...

I can say this... I''ve been with my g/f for 7 years, I''m 29 she''s 27. She''s been thru both my sister''s weddings, one was last month, one two years ago, and my step-sister is getting married literally this Saturday.

I would consider myself a traditionalist except for the situation. I always claimed I wouldn''t get married until 30 and she talked me into it 6 months early, 12 months early b/c I''d never get married during football season.

We moved in together last year, been 13 months, we have a very nice combined income but still rent. I was initially more pratical than she was but she came around..... until this wedding. Now she wants the world (not bad though)

Once I agreed, she was off to the races. We have the date, caterer, location, etc.... why b/c she knows what she wants and she doesn''t want to lose it no matter when I propose. We''ve looked at rings together but I have to make the final call. I have most of the cash for the ring, but I live very debt free and ''safety'' cash around. I said give me a few months for the ring..., she was fine with that.

I''ll ovbiously meet ''with'' her parents and ask for her hand, but at this point it''s kind of dumb. They''re already forking money out for the wedding, they know me very well, all they talk about is grandchildren..... But again 7 years is a long time considering her parents got married at 18.

I look at it this way.... we all have a 50:50 shot of the marriage surviving, why sweat the small stuff
After 7 years, I can understand why your wife-to-be isn''t sitting around waiting for a formal proposal.
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Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!!!
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sandia_rose

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I agree with some of the previous posters in that part of the fun is trying to surprise the girl and figure out what she''d like. I''m almost 40 and was married & divorced 10 years ago. I''ve now been dating a man for 2 years and am waiting again. From the perspective of someone who''s already been there, I can tell you that:

1) Both my parents were deceased when I married my ex. I had dropped hints when we were dating that if he were ever to propose, that a nice gesture would be to ask my brother for my hand. My brother has always watched out for me, so it''s my equivalent of asking my father. My ex didn''t ask him - in his words, he wouldn''t "stoop to ask a guy younger than me for permission." He was 42 at the time, my brother was 31. In retrospect, this was disrespectful to my feelings, and I have told my current BF that if he were to ask me, that I''d prefer that he ask my brother. In front of me would be odd, I agree. But then again, my brother lives 1500 miles away, so a phone call would be required!

2) You can get engaged without a ring. I have heard of guys doing it with pop-tops from soda cans, candy rings and cigar bands. It''s the phrase "Will You Marry Me?" or some variation that makes the proposal a proposal. I''m different than a lot of people on the board - I''d prefer to be surprised with a ring as opposed to shop for my own, so the "no-ring" option would be fine with me. I shopped for my own with my ex because he insisted on my going with him. He basically told me he would not propose UNLESS I picked my own ring out. I thought that was unromantic. I tend to wear the same general style of jewelery (very simple lines) and also like antique/vintage styles. There would have been a wide open field from which he could have chosen and I would have been happy with anything he picked.

As an aside in my case, I told my ex that I wanted to be surprised with a public proposal - in a restaurant, at a party, somewhere with my friends, etc. I''m the kind of person that loves a good surprise and likes to celebrate with a bunch of people around me. And I am a romantic. Anyone who knows me knows that - it''s no secret. The ring that I was forced to help shop for had to be sized, and the jeweler told my ex that it would be ready in a week....which would have been around my birthday. I told my ex - in front of the jeweler - I want to be surprised...PLEASE PLEASE don''t give it to me for my birthday. I would rather wait and be surprised. And what do you think happened? He gave me a small wooden jewelery box as a birthday present - because I needed a jewelery box. I was happy to get the box...but....my ring was inside the box! He never asked me to marry him, no sentiments, no bended knee, no I Love You, no nothing. It was, basically, "Here''s your birthday present." I was so upset that I cried on and off for days. He actually said to me, "You got a ring. You should be happy." To which I replied, "You make it sound like you''re doing me a favor or something. Thanks for being romantic. An engagement ring is not a birthday present."

Someone else posted in a much older thread about a proposal often being indicative of real feelings. After we got divorced and I reflected on it a while, my ex didn''t really want to marry me. We''d had a child together and married when he was a little over a year old. I kept telling myself that my ex wasn''t the romantic type and that at least he wanted to formally commit to me and become a legal family. But that''s not really logical thinking on my part. Come to learn - while in the process of my divorce - that the only reason he proposed at all was that he felt that he had to. My ex comes from a controlling family who pushed him to "do the right thing" -- not to mention his friends and co-workers who all wanted to know when he was getting married, since he already had a child with me. His mother would not give me the time of day until I had that ring on my finger. I was not in marriage-minded mode at the time, so I was not the one pushing him...but neither did I do anything to stop or fix the situation, either. Looking back on it, his proposal and the way he went about it was more about his ego and satisfying others around him. I wish I had been smart enough at the time and just saw it for what it was and said no.

So hence my point about looking deeper into what the girl''s preferences/wishes/desires are. Often, if a proposal means a lot to someone and it gets delivered in a totally contrary manner - that''s a huge Red Flag.

Bridget in Connecticut.
 

MoonWater

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Date: 11/20/2007 5:19:00 PM
Author: sandia_rose


So hence my point about looking deeper into what the girl''s preferences/wishes/desires are. Often, if a proposal means a lot to someone and it gets delivered in a totally contrary manner - that''s a huge Red Flag.

Bridget in Connecticut.
Wow, thanks for posting! You hit the nail on the head with the above comment! Sucks about your ex, but glad to hear you''re in a new relationship!
 
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