update...the pooch is gone!!! ....

[Mara]

Date: 6/26/2006 1:55:06 AM
Author: msb700
qs from someone who knows nothing about dogs, but why is it such a big deal that DF's wife/kid gave the dog to another owner/house rather than back to the breeder??? isn't it better for the dog to have a 'home' than back to the breeder??

well the idea is with a reputable breeder that they would want to be the ones responsible for finding a new great home for the pup. if they are reputable then they would really care about where their dogs go, what types of homes, who will be their owners, what type of life they will have. some breeders have really stringent requirements before they will agree to sell a dog to someone. but if it's a puppy mill or a backyard breeder, they may not care about where the dog goes after they get their $$$. so if the dog goes to an owner and the owner can't care for the dog...then many reputable breeders want the dog to come back to them so that they can find them a new home rather than just having the dog end up in a shelter or being sold on craigslist or something.

when i was young, we had a westie puppy...and my parents unexpectedly found out that they were expecting my last sister...and my mom didn't want to have to deal with a puppy and a new baby in the house at the same time, sooooo she took the dog back to the breeder, she took no $$ back and just asked that the breeder find the pup a good home. i was SO entirely heartbroken...i have wanted another westie ever since, but knew we had to have the right lifestyle before bringing a dog into the home. i never wanted to have to give another one up! anyway the original pup was placed with an older woman which sounded like a great home for her, as she was a super mellow and very loving pup (about 6 months at that point). the breeder probably found a better home for the dog than we could have, so my mom did the right thing for our family and the pup (even though i am sure i gave her some serious grief about it at the time!!). i like teasing my youngest sister when she is really being a pill by saying 'welp maybe we should have kept townsley!!'...

 

[pinkflamingo]

I agree with everything Mara has said and I will add this:

Puppy mills and backyard breeders are not good because they contribute to the animal overpopulation. They breed without knowing the history of the animals and sell them for profit. Many are inbred and develop serious health problems and may have behavioral problems. The puppy mill dogs are not raised well, they live in cages and have as many litters until they are destroyed. They do not come with spay/neuter contracts or return contracts. Many people would not be as responsible as DF's wife to find a good home, and many try to breed their dogs to make the $$ back. Most wouldn't take it as a $500 lesson, as your wife honorably did.

Good breeders do their research on lineage, and do not contribute to animal overpopulation. If the dog is not show material, it can only be adopted if you sign a contract to spay/neuter it. My parents have 3 American and Canadian AKC champion flatcoated retrievers. They have bred one of them twice, and had a waiting list by referral over one year long. That dog is now spayed. She could have had many many more litters had we be running a puppy mill (she is 8 now.) but, that is not responsible breeding. my parents did not make any money on the dogs, this was not for profit, in fact, they lost money. everything is done in the dog's best interest.

 

[pinkflamingo]

adding a pic of my parents'' pooches- gorgeous doggies!

From left to right, Jewell, Lucy, Ruby and Bowler.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 6/25/2006 11:01:51 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 6/25/2006 10:45:02 PM
Author: Kaleigh
I think the point is mute here. It''s done and Jade went to a loving home.

DF is not the bad guy here, and Gypsy you are wrong. I ditto what other''s have said. Aljdewey and Mine summed it up for me. I would have copied what you guys said but it was too long to copy.

Wasn''t going to reply to this thread again. But as you addressed me directly-- which I know you go to great pains to avoid Kaleigh-- I will say this. I am entitled to my opinion and it stands. But I am glad that you felt free to express your opinion on the subject. That is after all the point of this forum.

Gypsy, We can not be MORE on the same page as we are now. Kaleigh - do you have some omnicent power to say that Gypsy''s feelings are WRONG????????? Or are you the keeper of the peace with popular posters?

I have seen first hand through the Therapy Dog program the bond we have with dogs. They are special in society - bond with humans that goes before AD.

If I could I would quote the initial post. I will do so in my next post.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 6/24/2006 6:13:45 PM
Author:Dancing Fire
i knew this was going to happen after 2 days.

my daughter haven''t gotten much sleep in the pass few days,all grouchy and tire from taking the dog out to pee in the middle of the night. i said...''I TOLD YOU GUYS''

she said...O.K.,O.K, you prove your point,you don''t have to RUB IT IN !!!....they hate me when i''m right

So, is this the post of someone who cares about this living baby?

Sounds to me the issue is one that he was right. Gloating over the fact.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 6/25/2006 9:05:53 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/25/2006 7:14:08 PM
Author: aljdewey


Yes, but in fairness.......HE never wanted a dog to begin with. It sounds to me like he knew in his heart that they weren''t going to have what it took, but it wasn''t his decision.

Given that he''s afraid of dogs, I can imagine that he IS happy the dog didn''t last in his household. That doen''t make him an awful person....it just means he is not suited to be a dog owner. And he didn''t choose to......it was his family''s decision, and one they seemed to quickly realize wasn''t the right one.

LOL....hey Alj

are you feeling alright? i think you been out in the sun too long.

you guys are in trouble now. i got Alj in my corner.

It''s NOT about you DF and who you have in your corner.
It''s about a dog who probably will need people like Gypsy in her corner from now on to make up for "mistakes" made.
Thank you Gypsy for your shelter work.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 6/26/2006 9:32:10 AM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 6/25/2006 9:05:53 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/25/2006 7:14:08 PM
Author: aljdewey



Yes, but in fairness.......HE never wanted a dog to begin with. It sounds to me like he knew in his heart that they weren''t going to have what it took, but it wasn''t his decision.

Given that he''s afraid of dogs, I can imagine that he IS happy the dog didn''t last in his household. That doen''t make him an awful person....it just means he is not suited to be a dog owner. And he didn''t choose to......it was his family''s decision, and one they seemed to quickly realize wasn''t the right one.

LOL....hey Alj

are you feeling alright? i think you been out in the sun too long.

you guys are in trouble now. i got Alj in my corner.

It''s NOT about you DF and who you have in your corner.
It''s about a dog who probably will need people like Gypsy in her corner from now on to make up for ''mistakes'' made.
Thank you Gypsy for your shelter work.

Precisely why I am so wound up about this whole thing. It IS all about him - after all - HE WAS RIGHT!

Some people should not be dog "owners". The effort/sacrifice is too great for them. I am happy that this baby found a seemingly more suited home.

 

[msb700]

Mara/PF: Thanks for the clarification...

okay honestly, i don''t think we need to keep talking about this..each person is entitled to their opinion and have clearly stated them through out this thread.....I think its time to let this thread wind down no?

i respect each and everyone of ur thoughts on this issue, so please don''t misunderstand, but i just think we''ve been going around in circles for the past 2 pages...

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/26/2006 9:32:10 AM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 6/25/2006 9:05:53 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/25/2006 7:14:08 PM
Author: aljdewey



Yes, but in fairness.......HE never wanted a dog to begin with. It sounds to me like he knew in his heart that they weren''t going to have what it took, but it wasn''t his decision.

Given that he''s afraid of dogs, I can imagine that he IS happy the dog didn''t last in his household. That doen''t make him an awful person....it just means he is not suited to be a dog owner. And he didn''t choose to......it was his family''s decision, and one they seemed to quickly realize wasn''t the right one.

LOL....hey Alj

are you feeling alright? i think you been out in the sun too long.

you guys are in trouble now. i got Alj in my corner.

It''s NOT about you DF and who you have in your corner.
It''s about a dog who probably will need people like Gypsy in her corner from now on to make up for ''mistakes'' made.
Thank you Gypsy for your shelter work.

Honestly......I''m not trying to be in anyone''s "corner".

Everyone''s all fired up that he didn''t return the dog to the breeder because everyone is assuming it was the "reputable" kind of breeder that screens for a good home. If that were true, though, do you really think the dog would have ended up with DF''s wife to begin with? I don''t.

In my younger years, a friend of mine got her sheltie from such a breeder. It had papers, etc., but this lady breeder was in NO way the type of breeder you are all thinking of.

I suspect this breeder DF mentions is similar---a recreational, casual home breeder and not the type that breeds for a living. Given that DF''s wife got through the "screen", it''s unlikely that returning the dog would have resulted in any better subsequent home.

I feel very badly for the dog, and my primary concern would be the placement of that dog in a good home.

I''m not in favor, though, of making sweeping generalizations about what lessons his daughter is learning or impugning his character because he doesn''t personally hold animals in the same league as humans.

I do hold dogs in the same league (and I''d save my dog over most people), but castigating someone else who doesn''t share that viewpoint is a bit strong.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 6/26/2006 10:35:54 AM

I''m not in favor, though, of making sweeping generalizations about what lessons his daughter is learning or impugning his character because he doesn''t personally hold animals in the same league as humans.

I do hold dogs in the same league (and I''d save my dog over most people), but castigating someone else who doesn''t share that viewpoint is a bit strong.

No one is castigating someone who doesn''t share the viewpoint that dogs are special. But, every living thing deserves better than "just being right" about something. "The pooch is gone & I was right" mentality shows a lack of respect for the situation - an unfortunate one indeed.

No one can assume anything about the "breeder". Perhaps the breeder did ask for the dog back if things didn''t work out. My Heidi was a product of people doing as they please. She was a rescue to a good home. When I called the breeder about her history, the breeder was a bit shocked that they weren''t contacted to take the dog back.

Also, it''s hard to read people when placing pups. I had someone use ME as a reference when trying to locate an SS puppy. The breeder was all excited she had found a reputable home w/ stay at home middle aged women w/ a fenced in back yard. The breeder had the good sense to call me & inquire about MY reference. This women wasn''t fit to raise a hamster let alone a dog. This wasn''t a judgement. This was a factual account of her history which included PLOPPING down a 7 week year old puppy in the back yard during an icestorm! We cared for all her dogs on the sly - which came and vanished one by one.

Perhaps the breeder is a puppy mill or Back yard breeder that wanted her children to share the special "breeding/puppy" process.

- but, the fate of this pup doesn''t squarely fall on the "breeder".

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 6/26/2006 11:10:23 AM
Author: fire&ice

No one is castigating someone who doesn''t share the viewpoint that dogs are special.

Well, I wouldn''t consider it a compliment to be publicly flamed and labelled as......irresponsible, SHAMEFUL, and wouldn''t know XYZ if it bit me in the posterior.

 

[blodthecat]

Date: 6/26/2006 9:49:58 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 6/26/2006 9:32:10 AM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 6/25/2006 9:05:53 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/25/2006 7:14:08 PM
Author: aljdewey






Yes, but in fairness.......HE never wanted a dog to begin with. It sounds to me like he knew in his heart that they weren't going to have what it took, but it wasn't his decision.

Given that he's afraid of dogs, I can imagine that he IS happy the dog didn't last in his household. That doen't make him an awful person....it just means he is not suited to be a dog owner. And he didn't choose to......it was his family's decision, and one they seemed to quickly realize wasn't the right one.

LOL....hey Alj

are you feeling alright? i think you been out in the sun too long.

you guys are in trouble now. i got Alj in my corner.

It's NOT about you DF and who you have in your corner.
It's about a dog who probably will need people like Gypsy in her corner from now on to make up for 'mistakes' made.
Thank you Gypsy for your shelter work.

Precisely why I am so wound up about this whole thing. It IS all about him - after all - HE WAS RIGHT!

Some people should not be dog 'owners'. The effort/sacrifice is too great for them. I am happy that this baby found a seemingly more suited home.

I think your comments are very unfair

This little pup has spent a short time with DF's family. She has been 100% cared for and shown love and affection. No cruelty or neglect has taken place! and THAT is what you have to keep in mind.

Jade will have suffered no trauma. DF's family will have been more upset by this experience than Jade. Further more, they have found a good home for her!

So this is NOT a case of abuse or neglect.

DF was not gloating on being right......he was merely stating what happened.

Blod

 

[Mara]

the only thing that i keep thinking when i see this thread is....PS'ers and their pets...they love them just as much or even MORE than diamonds. DF shoulda known better than to even post what he did...he shoulda known the local pet adoring savages would get inflamed.

now, does anyone want some LEMON PIE? it's in the shape of a dog.