Why good asscher photo''''s are hard

[strmrdr]

There is no question that good photos are required when buying asschers online.
Getting good photos can be a problem.
While the eyes/brain make it seem easy to line up the patterns with many people the windmills will make it line up automaticaly.
They draw the eyes to the center which triggers a natural reaction to align the pattern in a lot of people.
This ability has been used in peep rifle sights for a very long time.
This does not happen when looking at asschers thru a camera lens.

Just a small amount of tilt can have a large impact on the appearance of the patterns.
The good news is that tilt isnt likely to make bad patterns look good because of the level of precision required to pull it off.

here it is level.

 

[strmrdr]

2 degrees down

 

[strmrdr]

2 degrees left

 

[strmrdr]

2 down 2 left

 

[strmrdr]

5 degrees down

 

[strmrdr]

5 degrees left

 

[strmrdr]

5 degrees down 5 degrees left

 

[strmrdr]

Good photo''s are indeed hard but they are possible and consumers shouldnt accept it as an excuse for not showing them or for bad photos.

With enough study one can figure out what to look for and mentaly align the diamond and get a pretty good idea of the pattern quality even with tilt.
Teaching someone to do that is beyond the scope of what is posible in a few posts here.

 

[strmrdr]

..

 

[perry]

Picture Perfect

Thanks.

Perry

 

[valeria101]

Reading this from a somewhat different angle...


If it takes some very restrictive conditions to see those famous patters, why are they such a big thing?

After all, it just so happens that out current medium of exchanging notes about diamonds are 2D stills. I can only agree that symmetry is a fundamental ''good'' thing (along the lines of your article and the research cited there), but for the models and technical analysis mentioned around here assuming the most of it is also a necessity - regardless of any other considerations about the object they represent. Etc.


I suppose this question also stands in for rounds. It just happens to be on this thread about step cuts.


This may sound silly, but the question is meant to be open (I have not made up my mind either way before writing it), coming from someone who likes to question everything, in particular self-evident stuff.

 

[strmrdr]

They show up far more often than your thinking val.
Other than seeing one in a lot of lighting conditions I dont know how to show you.
They wont always show up with that much contrast but they will be visible.
I had the chance to borrow one from someone I know for a day.
(old ring she didnt wear) and I saw the pattern in some form a good 90% of the time.
Anytime I wanted to see the pattern I could find it clearly.

There is another area to it also good patterns in asschers indicate good facet alignment and angle relationships, like the h&a on a round do.

 

[DiamondExpert]

Storm - your fine patterns will now put pressure for "perfect" pics on those of us who, next year some time, will be carrying the "Asscher" with the new AGS certs!...can we do it?...I don''t know.

This also makes me wonder if this phenomenon isn''t related to why folks in the 50''s used to sit in front of their new TV''s staring at the test pattern all day!!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/17/2005 12:37:00 PM
Author: DiamondExpert
Storm - your fine patterns will now put pressure for ''perfect'' pics on those of us who, next year some time, will be carrying the ''Asscher'' with the new AGS certs!...can we do it?...I don''t know.


This also makes me wonder if this phenomenon isn''t related to why folks in the 50''s used to sit in front of their new TV''s staring at the test pattern all day!!

desktop aset photos :}
Then the natural photos can just be used for clarity and the ASET for patterns.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/17/2005 11:42:57 AM
Author: strmrdr


There is another area to it also good patterns in asschers indicate good facet alignment and angle relationships, like the h&a on a round do.

Aha! ''Guess we are getting at the root of the issue...

I can understand why symmetry (broad sense) is important with those large facets. It would take a pretty mangled cut not to have a nice orderly look in a step cut''s picture though. And this doesn''t show only in a perfectly aligned face-down position.

The ''like the H&A'' part in the sentence cited needs some explaining though.

Assuming you are talking about the arrows (no upside down asscher pictures turned up as yet)... that''s a neat excuse for extinction in round diamonds, but why would anyone want so much of it in any other cut, including squares? Without the little cute story about the lucky eight arrows from a certain blessed quiver etc., I am not sure what is the attraction of little dark squares inside a diamond.


What is the difference between ''pattern'' and ''optical symmetry'' (in the sense on John Q''s post on the Glossary thread) ?


Along the same line, I would surely welcome a post or two about the symmetry grade and optical symmetry for step cuts. I can hardly imagine what if any ''horror'' may fall between the two (as it may between the finish grades and the H&A standard for rounds). Perhaps there are plenty - just none in my book as yet.

 

[strmrdr]

I know of no study of optical symmetry in step cuts.

The bottom line for me is
1. They are visible a lot of the time.
2. they show care in cutting.
3. most important they look good.
4. it shows that the facets angles are in the proper ranges to return light and are close to the same angle with the rest in that level.

An asscher is ment to be looked into, everything about the cut draws the eyes into the stone.
crappy patterns detracts for that.

All my opinion of course :}

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/18/2005 9:20:29 AM
Author: strmrdr
I know of no study of optical symmetry in step cuts.

The bottom line for me is
1. They are visible a lot of the time.
2. they show care in cutting.
3. most important they look good.

_________________________________________________

So the 'pattern' thing does not mean 'optical symmetry'.
Would it be worth making up a formal description? Not that optical symmetry is measured in any formal way (ISee2? maybe), but it is a reasonably well-defined concept (i.e. can be talked about, explained and learned by others). If 'pattern' in your sense it is defined by good looks, it comes of as a subjective quality as far as I understand these things. A more general form, may help communicate your quality mark as optical symmetry was. Otherwise the only way to know if an Asscher cut has it, is to take some darn perfect pictures and... ask you

4. it shows that the facet angles are in the proper ranges to return light and are close to the same angle with the rest in that level.

Since 'light return' is a well defined thing, this could be tested somehow (probably not too hard).



All my opinion of course

Cool. Thanks

PS: Is the AGS standard for square step cuts still in the works ? Perhaps they will not say much about their research as it wasn't done for the other shapes, but... nice to know.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/18/2005 12:13:45 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 12/18/2005 9:20:29 AM


PS: Is the AGS standard for square step cuts still in the works ? Perhaps they will not say much about their research as it wasn''t done for the other shapes, but... nice to know.

rumor has it next year
rumer also has it that they are going to be as picky as I am :}
I hope both rumors are true.

The aset is the best tool right now for asschers so I have high hopes for them :}

 

[strmrdr]

Here is the biggest reason for good patterns:

http://www.art.net/~coffin/WRITINGS/BEAUTY/beauty.html


http://www.unm.edu/~quantum/quantum_spring_2000/mirror.html


symmetry_in_music,carpets,_and_faces

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/18/2005 1:31:05 PM
Author: strmrdr


rumer also has it that they [AGS] are going to be as picky as I am

Ok... of all people you should know. 'Hope there will be a more public 'preview' soon, as it happened for the AGS0 princess.

Do you happen to disagree with any bit of the grading recipe?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/20/2005 6:47:15 AM
Author: valeria101

Date: 12/18/2005 1:31:05 PM

Author: strmrdr



rumer also has it that they [AGS] are going to be as picky as I am

Ok... of all people you should know. ''Hope there will be a more public ''preview'' soon, as it happened for the AGS0 princess.

Do you happen to disagree with any bit of the grading recipe?

Dont know enough yet to say for sure.
The drop style asschers may get knocked down for too much blue and not enough red and greens.
If so we will see more wide step and more narrow step designs.
Time will tell.

I think the biggest issue is the cutting guidlines.
There are a lot of combos that can make a good asscher.
Judging the finished product is the easy part.
My feeling is that its going to be a subset of the possible good combos with a certain look, much like the ags0 princess cuts.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/18/2005 5:58:42 PM
Author: strmrdr

Here is the biggest reason for good patterns.

As long as you guys come with some rule that sells and is more likely to yield false negatives than false positives, fine with me.

For the past three installments, the cut grades came out as a subset of what may have looked reasonable to me from the same perspective (as much as it was exposed). Far from giving any reason to look for a narrower range than proposed.

Oh well... I am no expert either. Diamonds make good conversation though

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/20/2005 7:40:46 AM
Author: valeria101

Date: 12/18/2005 5:58:42 PM
Diamonds make good conversation though

That they do :}
And while we often disagree your one of my favorite people to discuss it with. :}