now that AGS is out with their new report.should the new 0 cuts...

[Dancing Fire]

bring a higher premium compare to the old 0 cuts? for the same color/clarity.

 

[noobie]

no

 

[strmrdr]

No.
They were allready bringing a premium and if they wanted to maintain that position they needed to improve the system.
Also they are going to have to do a much better job of education if they want to maintain it.

The most diamond savy consumers anywhere dont have a handle on it yet because the experts/vendors dont have a handle on it.
That wipes out any advantage for now and if anything makes it worse than the old system until they get everyone incuding the prosumers up too speed on it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

from a diamond manufacturer''s perspective AGS has a very difficult position infront of it.

On the one hand they are providing the best guarantee possible for a consumer that the diamond with AGS 0 cut paper is indeed an excellent stone.
But on the other hand producing these stones involves a more complex production process than previously.

If manufacturers decide the effort is not worthwhile, then prices will rise assuming demand.

But if AGS do not adequately promote their new system, then demand could fall if people believe that gIA''s new soon to be released system is "as good" (which it simply isn''t).

The little group that I work with think we need to mount up and dart into the fray on our white chargers, to help solve the manufacturers problems.

What was that Einstein quote about not beling able to solve new problems with old thinking?
That is exactly what Sarin and Ogi are doing with the GIA system. We hope that AGS will not make the same mistake.

 

[lawmax]

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.
Albert Einstein

You can never solve a problem on the level on which it was created.
Albert Einstein

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

AE

You can't solve a problem with the same mind that created it.

AE

ETC.

 

[WinkHPD]

Eventually they will, but it will be awhile. Many of the old stones will no longer deserve or receive the coveted AGS0 grade and that will make many in the industry try to destroy it. It is up to you prosumers to wrap your brains around the obviously better system and promote it, much like you did with your quest for the AGS 0 in the first place. Fifteen years ago very few nknew or cared about H&A, and quite frankly the percentage of diamond buyers who do is still quite small as a percentage of the total market. Fifteen years ago there were two or three cutters who made them, now there are hundreds. It is a glorious chapter in the history of beauty that we are partaking in, I hope it stays the course!

Wink

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Wink i do not believe anything has changed with regard symmetry at AGS.

To the contrary, there are people in the lab who would like to include excellent as well as ideal symmetry and polished stones withing the AGS 0 grade - as long as their light performance is up to par, and i expect there will be many instances where this is so.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Yes, and no.

If you compare a stone with a new AGS-0 with a run-of-the-mill old AGS-0, then the price will be clearly higher. After all, most run-of-the-mill old AGS-0 are steep-deep combinations cut for weight-retention.

However, if you compare with the super-ideals, that some vendors here specialize in, and which have many quality-features plus an AGS-0 grading-report, there will be little to no difference in price.

Live long,

 

[Rhino]

Date: 7/5/2005 1:12:12 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Wink i do not believe anything has changed with regard symmetry at AGS.

To the contrary, there are people in the lab who would like to include excellent as well as ideal symmetry and polished stones withing the AGS 0 grade - as long as their light performance is up to par, and i expect there will be many instances where this is so.

Kind of like how GIA will include Very Good''s into their Grade 1 classifications. I think this is fine as long as the optics are in place since polish/symmetry has less impact than the other factors.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 7/5/2005 12:23:48 AM
Author: Wink
Eventually they will, but it will be awhile. Many of the old stones will no longer deserve or receive the coveted AGS0 grade and that will make many in the industry try to destroy it. It is up to you prosumers to wrap your brains around the obviously better system and promote it, much like you did with your quest for the AGS 0 in the first place. Fifteen years ago very few nknew or cared about H&A, and quite frankly the percentage of diamond buyers who do is still quite small as a percentage of the total market. Fifteen years ago there were two or three cutters who made them, now there are hundreds. It is a glorious chapter in the history of beauty that we are partaking in, I hope it stays the course!

Wink

HUNDREDS?!?! Well... certainly more than what there were but I don''t think it''s quite in the hundreds. Also the consistency of the product is not there for most of these blokes too.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 7/5/2005 6:41:39 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
Yes, and no.

If you compare a stone with a new AGS-0 with a run-of-the-mill old AGS-0, then the price will be clearly higher. After all, most run-of-the-mill old AGS-0 are steep-deep combinations cut for weight-retention.

However, if you compare with the super-ideals, that some vendors here specialize in, and which have many quality-features plus an AGS-0 grading-report, there will be little to no difference in price.

Live long,

It''ll be interesting to see how this plays out Paul. Because there are manufactures who have AGS ideal stones, a harder grade to get now, and both AGS and GIA do not regard optical symmetry in their analysis (which us H&A purists do), who will deem their AGS Ideal''s on the same par (and most likely same price structure) as H&A Ideal manufacturers do. So if non H&A AGS Ideals will be priced similarly to H&A AGS Ideals, this will create even higher demand for the H&A ideals which many also influence the demand side (of the supply/demand chain) causing increased value in the most rare AGS Ideals... the H&A''s.

If there is not high demand for non H&A AGS ideals these may be viewed as a sub par "ideal" (akin to the steep/deeps, shallow/shallows in the old system) and will be valued less in the eyes of the trade and the consumer. The question which remains to be answered is ... will H&A Ideals increase in value while non H&A Ideals hold their value or will non H&A ideals decrease in value with H&A ideals maintaining the value they now hold? Only time will answer this one regardless of what we think it should be.

 

[Dancing Fire]

same Q....now that we''re seeing more new AGS report out in the market.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

If we are talking rounds, our own situation is as follows.

We did not change the pricing of our rounds, because we did not change our way of cutting. Basically, the goods are the same, so the price is the same.

However, we do find that it is easier to sell now with the new grading report, and I have the impression that many find our current prices cheap as compared to the time when we had the old AGS-report.

I hope that this is somewhat clear.

Live long,