Mark-up on a diamond?

[jeffsentra]

Generally what is the mark-up on a diamond. I have been looking around for diamonds in Toronto and there aren''t many places that have set reasonable prices for loose diamonds. The only place I found is damiani''s. Usually when I go into a store they ask me what my buget is... and I am starting tto think that they do this so that they can see what ring will give them the most profit. For example, today I went into a store and I was looking at a canadian diamond (Vs2 .53 F colour excellent proportions) and she wanted $3500 for the diamond. I thought this was quite pricey for that size stone even though it is of good quality. That means it is over $7000/carat!! insane
Tell me, am I being cynical here or am I getting tossed around like a naive kid?
Thanks
Jeff

 

[strmrdr]

welcome to the world of diamonds :}

Its a fact of life that diamond prices range from high to insane for the exact same diamond depending on where you shop.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/25/2005 11:25:50 PM
Author:jeffsentra
Generally what is the mark-up on a diamond. I have been looking around for diamonds in Toronto and there aren''t many places that have set reasonable prices for loose diamonds. The only place I found is damiani''s. Usually when I go into a store they ask me what my buget is... and I am starting tto think that they do this so that they can see what ring will give them the most profit. For example, today I went into a store and I was looking at a canadian diamond (Vs2 .53 F colour excellent proportions) and she wanted $3500 for the diamond. I thought this was quite pricey for that size stone even though it is of good quality. That means it is over $7000/carat!! insane
Tell me, am I being cynical here or am I getting tossed around like a naive kid?
Thanks
Jeff

never tell them your buget,it is none of their business.just tell them the 4c''s that you have in mind.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/26/2005 1:57:28 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

never tell them your buget,it is none of their business.just tell them the 4c''s that you have in mind.

Dancing,

I have to disagree with your advice of never disclosing the budget. It’s true that the diamond world is full of sharks and it’s important to be careful but this is almost always critical information in order to end up with an appropriate offer. What most customers want when they walk through the door is to get the most diamond possible while staying within a particular budget. The decision about clarity, color, weight etc. will almost always be based, at least in part, on this budgetary information.

For the jeweler to be helpful in guiding their clients towards the correct stone for them, they need to know this. Many people will arrive at a store with a very skewed impression of what the various grading terms mean and how they relate to each other and the price. There is wildly inaccurate information available that can result in some terrible misunderstandings and disappointments. Not surprisingly, it’s regularly the customer who ends up on the short end of the deal.. The Pricescope databases are pretty handy for getting a grip on these relationships online but it’s pretty difficult to do this in a storefront environment where 95% of the people do their shopping. If you are unwilling to admit to the budget, it’s flat out impossible.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Regular Guy]

I think all reasonable ideas. You do want to shop at a store where the prices are not on the sort of sliding scale wherein they set prices by the way you''re dressed. Generally, though, a store will get the profit where it can, and knowing what you want, regardless what you reveal or not about your budget will only help.

Especially since Leonid (our administrator) is in Canada, I hope he can get enough data to make it reasonable to expand this list above the border, for recommended stores.

 

[strmrdr]

My problem with the question is that I know what I want I dont want them to fit a stone in my budget I want to know how much they want for a stone that fits my specs.
Ran into that in my pre-pricescope days and it was annoying, its even more annoying now.

 

[laney]

Date: 10/26/2005 9:09:26 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 10/26/2005 1:57:28 AM

For the jeweler to be helpful in guiding their clients towards the correct stone for them, they need to know this.

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ISA NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

I agree - HOWEVER, I must say, I have only met...say 3 "jewelers" then.. in my life.

As a consumer.. it really is hard out there. A true "jeweler" may do all the things that you mentioned, but unfortuanately, they seem hard to find.. or few and far between.

I have found them at smaller family run stores. I haven''t found them in a "mall" chain store. Even some larger family run buinesses.

I guess, it''s hard to accept that you are going to have to negiotiate for a price...

 

[denverappraiser]

Education is definitely the key and I certainly agree that there are a whole lot of crappy jewelers out there. I even agree that if I were a consumer shopping for a diamond, I would probably end up making at least part of my purchase at an out-of-state dealer that I found via the internet for the same reasons that most of the regulars on the forum have made this same decision. That said, almost everyone includes a visit to at least one local jewelry store in their shopping experience and it isn’t usually just a matter of comparing prices on superficially similar items.

Diamonds, for most people, are a blind item and they see them as terribly expensive for what you get. They are looking for education to convince them that they aren’t about to get skinned. They want to see a lot of diamonds, they want to see the difference between the various sizes and grades, they want to see the various shapes etc. They want to understand why they are so damn expensive and why some seem to cost a whole lot more than others even though almost all of them are pretty. They want to compare what a variety of different sources tell them so that they can end up with a sufficient understanding of the situation that they feel comfortable when they finally make their purchase. All of this is about education and the effective jewelers, both online and off, are anxious to provide it because it increases the chances that the customer will end up buying there. In one since this is easier for the online shops because they can write a good tutorial once and lots of potential customers will read it without requiring any additional time where the jewelry store needs to go through it one at a time with each customer. The advantage that the jewelry store has is that it’s a much more interactive process. A customer can ask specific questions and then choose the next question based on their answer to the last. If everyone is on the up and up, this can be very efficient but it’s a two way street and it’s completely undermined if the customer either lies about what they are really trying to find out or if they simply refuse to participate. Concealing important information like the budget or what they think a particular clarity grade means at the very least causes the process to take longer and may lead to inaccurate conclusions. If the objective is to determine if the jeweler is a fool or a shonk, there are easier and more effective techniques. Answer their questions truthfully, ask thoughtful questions yourself, listen to what they tell you and then compare the answers to what you learn from other sources. The cream will quickly rise to the top and the BS artists will drop away.

I understand that many, even most jewelers will not hold up to this process and that it can be frustrating to go through it only to find that you are rejecting stores that were originally considered reasonable. The situation is even worse online than it is on the street. A quick Google search for ‘discount diamonds’ produces 2.9 Million results and the vast majority of them would not be deemed acceptable by the regulars here. ‘certified wholesale diamonds’ yields a mere 1.9 million. It’s not correct that there are no good storefront jewelers. Many of the favorite vendors here are, in fact, retail jewelers who are successful in their home market and are expanding their business using the internet to sell to customers who can’t easily walk in the door. Wink, GOG and Pearlmans all come to mind. It’s not the location of the store or the quality of the website that makes a good jeweler. It’s the character of the people behind the counter/keyboard (and the people behind them).

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[NEdiamondguy]

Here, here, Denver.

It is a tough world in the retail market place out there. There are apporixmately 10,000 separate retail jewelry stores in the U.S. alone and about 30,000 jewelry suppliers. Sound like a tight business??? You betcha! All of us out there competeing for one thing and one thing only - your money. Though there are a lot of sharks in the water, occasionally, you''ll find a dolphin to come along and help you out. Just don''t go swimming in Australia with a ham hock tied around your neck! I digress...

As for giving a specific budget, up to you I guess. When I am working with a client, if they feel comfortable with it, it does help me a lot in determing selection for them. I will stop showing them 1ct. stones if their throat starts to close and they turn purple for example. Maybe a 1/2 ct. is more in their budget.

Make sure that the store you deal with has up-front pricing (every thing is clearly marked), and then go from there. One of our chief competitors often does what I call "packing." A customer tells them they are looking for a certain budget amount, then they find a style they like and they either inflate the mounting or diamond amount to fill out their customer''s budget. (i.e. they find a $2500 diamond, and their $400 mounting suddenly costs $1000 to make their customer''s $3500 budget). That''s why EVERYTHING in my store is priced. Is there any negitiating? Sure, a little. Will I do 50% off? No way. What I sell is worth what I''m asking for it 365 days a year. That''s why we don''t do "sales" either unless we''re clearing out old merch.

So good luck to you, do your research and type me any ??? you have.

M.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/26/2005 9:09:26 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 10/26/2005 1:57:28 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

never tell them your buget,it is none of their business.just tell them the 4c''s that you have in mind.

Dancing,

For the jeweler to be helpful in guiding their clients towards the correct stone for them, they need to know this. Many people will arrive at a store with a very skewed impression of what the various grading terms mean and how they relate to each other and the price. There is wildly inaccurate information available that can result in some terrible misunderstandings and disappointments. Not surprisingly, it’s regularly the customer who ends up on the short end of the deal.. The Pricescope databases are pretty handy for getting a grip on these relationships online but it’s pretty difficult to do this in a storefront environment where 95% of the people do their shopping. If you are unwilling to admit to the budget, it’s flat out impossible.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Neil
what i''m afraid of if i told the jeweler that i have a 10k budget, he will try to sell me a stone that he would of sold for 8k. i usually have the specs and price in mind,before i go shopping.i wouldn''t waste my time looking at 3ct''s if i only have a 10k budget.

 

[pricescope]

Jeffsentra, I just read recently in one of the jeweler''s magazine that in order to stay in business retail store should have somewhere about 40% margin.

It cab be higher in Canada because of the higher taxes. A few years ago I found loose diamond prices at Spence Diamond in Toronto 2x higher than in the Internet. It can change now though.

 

[vsylvia]

I''m a canadian (from toronto)who doesn''t know much about diamonds. Me and my H2B went out to a mall on our first day of ring shopping and found what seemed to be a good quality fair priced princess(0.52, VS2, F) for about $2300 cnd. we were so excited we bought it right away despite not doing much research

. i''ve always wondered if this was a ''good deal''. after doing research on the web AFTER i got my ring,

(and staring at my beatiful ring for hours!) i''m satisfied we didn''t get ripped off.

canadian diamonds are always more pricey, and i assumed this was because they''re more expensive to mine. does anyone know if the markup on canadian diamonds is fair or just used as an excuse to get more profit??

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/26/2005 8:40:02 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Neil
what i''m afraid of if i told the jeweler that i have a 10k budget, he will try to sell me a stone that he would of sold for 8k. i usually have the specs and price in mind,before i go shopping.i wouldn''t waste my time looking at 3ct''s if i only have a 10k budget.

I understand and I agree. Determining if the jeweler is treating you fairly is an important part of what you are trying to decide in the course of the interview with them. By all means, if you determine that they aren’t, vote with your feet and shop elsewhere. As was pointed out above, they have plenty of competition. When you walk into a store, you’ve probably got a set of parameters in mind. This may include shape, size, cut, clarity, budget or any of a whole list of other things. Many of these things are likely to be negotiable and it becomes part of the interaction. How much more will it cost if we go up one color grade? How much will I save if I drop a little bit in size? My girlfriends brother-in-law who is in the diamond business told me that I-1 is a good clarity and that EGL is the best. Do you have those? If I raise the budget by $1,000, what could I then get? What if I lowered the budget? Tell me about your warranty and trade up programs. Do I have to buy hearts & arrows to get a pretty diamond? What’s ideal? The answers to this sort of questioning may result in reconsidering your original parameters or it may end up confirming them. A typical client will go through this process with several dealers and online sources, like this forum, and compare the various answers they receive. Any questions that produce significantly different answers results in more in-depth consideration of that particular issue. If it turns out that one information source is simply wrong, you reduce the credibility of that source and increase the credibility of the one that turns out to be correct. If you decide that one source is lying or deliberately deceiving you, you abandon them entirely in favor of the alternatives. In the end, this will boil down to choosing one that you count as the most credible source and this is very likely to be where you end up buying.

This can be a fairly effective if somewhat tedious process, and it’s a pretty typical way to shop for things that are unfamiliar and expensive ranging from houses to insurance services. Shopping for jewelry isn’t really all that different.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[jeffsentra]

Thank you for all the helpful advice everyone! I really appreciate it. I have noticed that some stores I go into when I tell them the price range the automatically make whatever diamond / setting I am looking at fit that price range. It really is unbelievable. I am starting to think that they can make a huge profit off the setting if you are not careful. I am looking a t a white gold 14-18kt setting and have been told some place it is $1000 and other places it is only 200-300 for a 3 stone setting (.15-.25 stones are extra I believe) what size side stone would go good with a .60-.65 centre stone?
I appreciate all the helpful information I have been on here for a while now browsing / searching the different threads.
Jeff

 

[windowshopper]

personally what i have done (and in many cases it has prompted sales people to ignore me or blow me off) is say I am looking for (for example) a 1 carat, F to H, vs2 of excellent make. what can you show me? most often i have been asked so what is your budget? and i say that is irrelevant . I just told you what i am looking for and i will decide if the prices are acceptable to me. if you have done some comparision shopping on the net or at stores you will then have a good idea if what they are quoting you is in a reasonable ballpark

 

[Regular Guy]

Windowshopper, your sentiment is mine, and Jeffsentra, I can understand your concern, and in the examples given above, we can see how specific suspicions of misconduct are raised when we do share our budget.

But somehow, we have to learn to dance with each other.

Last weekend, I want to a "Bar Mitzvah Showcase," where vendors showed what they had, for families preparing for this special event. Photography for this event, and the event itself, is probably a similar shopping experience to getting an engagement ring, since it''s sort of a one time...or at least...a once a child thing. So, trying to understand what the represented photographer''s fees are, was my task.

Maybe photographers get that not that much shopping relatively is done, and so the idea of a budget isn''t asked about...the two booths I stopped at didn''t say...what''s your budget? No one beginning to think about this conceives budgets start at $2500, or maybe they do. So, the one guy who spent some time with me started detailing things like the construction of his album, the quality of the paper, and other such arcana, so eventually, he in pieces, me requesting consolidation, I came to understand what the modest side of what the services he would offer would cost.

Date: 10/28/2005 9:08:09 AM
Author: windowshopper
personally what i have done (and in many cases it has prompted sales people to ignore me or blow me off) is say I am looking for (for example) a 1 carat, F to H, vs2 of excellent make. what can you show me? most often i have been asked so what is your budget? and i say that is irrelevant . I just told you what i am looking for and i will decide if the prices are acceptable to me. if you have done some comparision shopping on the net or at stores you will then have a good idea if what they are quoting you is in a reasonable ballpark

Really, having done enough homework to know in substance what you would want, who would really want to take a different approach than you, Windowshopper. Nevertheless, as Denverappraiser alludes to, we do want the seller to be able to picture or visualize well enough our situation so as to help us with his stock. But, since we don''t want him to take his one stock fits all into whatever our budget is, probably we just need to smooth out the language a bit, so simply as to appear (as we mean to be) non-offensive....so we might say instead (much as Paul Slegers/Antwerp has previously done here) that we''d prefer to keep that to myself at the moment, if that''s all right, or just something with a slightly softer edge. For example, in a nice DC shop (Princess Jewelers), the nice gentleman in the store showed me some half dozen pieces, each time showing me the price tag nicely on the ring, and adding with each piece, on sale today at...and then mentioning a discount to what was listed for me. Not sure if NEDiamondguy wants to comment on this practice, but I bet it''s not uncommon for experienced practitioners. And so, the point being, simply, and despite up front pricing, that pricing may be set at for rubes, or people we really don''t like, or for those days when a person walks in who''s ready to buy at top dollar regardless, and you just don''t want to leave any money on the table...whatever. For circumstances like this, you really don''t want to just get that "1 carat, F to H, vs2 of excellent make" if they happen to have it, but you actually want to get it at the best price you can, and not waste everybody''s time in the process.

So, trust, verify, be friendly, and keep your cards as close to your vest as you civilizedly like.

 

[windowshopper]

TO REGULAR GUY: just to clarify on the "that is irrelevant" phrase. i wouldnt be so so blunt-- i was somewhat abbreviating for typing sake............however--i was in the diamond district a couple of years ago and saw a beautiful ring in the window of one of the nicer places and went and asked someone if i could see it. she said in response "what are you looking for." I said something like that ring in the window. She said well what is your budget? I said I know what diamonds cost are you going to show me the ring or not. I am a very presentable person. Well dressed etc................And by the way, I did not buy that ring!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/28/2005 9:08:09 AM
Author: windowshopper
personally what i have done (and in many cases it has prompted sales people to ignore me or blow me off) is say I am looking for (for example) a 1 carat, F to H, vs2 of excellent make. what can you show me? most often i have been asked so what is your budget? and i say that is irrelevant . I just told you what i am looking for and i will decide if the prices are acceptable to me. if you have done some comparision shopping on the net or at stores you will then have a good idea if what they are quoting you is in a reasonable ballpark

Interesting comment Windowshopper.

Personally I agree that asking for a budget is not a good way to start a sales presentation, but I know that many in the sales profession do it. However there may be a reason why so many blow you off though when you use that the budget is irrelevant approach.

There is one thing I have consistently noted over the years, no matter at what time the budget comes up. When someone tells me price is irrelevant, it is time for the warning flags to JUMP to the front of the picture and for making sure the security cameras are working. While some perfectly wonderful clients, say one or two in thirty plus years, have said and meant it, almost every single scam artist and crook who has ever attempted to scam me has used it.

So while it may be unfair, when someone tells me price is not important I shut down the "what can I do for you to make your day wonderful" part of my brain and turn on the "WATCH OUT WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!" part of my brain. In my thirty plus years of being a jewelery professional I have been approached by some pretty sophiticated scam artists and have been lucky to have thwarted several hundred thousand dollars of attempts. In one case I was able to help nail a man wanted in several states who was actually at the airport with his "new fiance" a local girl who had fallen under his spell and who believed they were going to be married. I had alerted both the police and a friend of mine at the airport where they were still stalling him at the ticket line when the police arrived.

His engagement ring for her and several expensive gifts were still at my store as I had become uncomfortable when he told me price was irrelevant and started digging into his story. There was no film at eleven, but he went to prison back east somewhere and she went on to have a normal life.

Oops, sorry, wandering a little. Strange what an early morning reaction to what I think an overly confrontational approach will dredge out of the memory pond.

What I meant to say is this. If you truly tell the sales person "I told you what I want, price is irrelevant, I will decide if your prices are acceptable to me" then you have set off every alarm that a prudent sales person should have for one thing, and by putting him down you have insulted him for another. It is small wonder that many of them have ignored you or blown you off.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/28/2005 9:47:58 AM
Author: windowshopper
TO REGULAR GUY: just to clarify on the 'that is irrelevant' phrase. i wouldnt be so so blunt-- i was somewhat abbreviating for typing sake............

I see you typed a clarification while I was typing. I am glad to see it, and I can honestly say I was hoping that was the case. Glad to see that it was. Sometimes things come across differently when we type than what we really mean.

Wink

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 10/28/2005 10:02:54 AM
Author: Wink

Date: 10/28/2005 9:47:58 AM
Author: windowshopper
TO REGULAR GUY: just to clarify on the 'that is irrelevant' phrase. i wouldnt be so so blunt-- i was somewhat abbreviating for typing sake............

I see you typed a clarification while I was typing. I am glad to see it, and I can honestly say I was hoping that was the case. Glad to see that it was. Sometimes things come across differently when we type than what we really mean.

Wink

i hate typing and i am not good at it so it is EXHAUSTING for me....

However: I am not 100% with you on budget. Alot of people's budget is dependant on many things. It may be flexible. When I was shopping for a new stone I had more to spend then I really wanted to spend. SO I saw a few things that were as expensive as what I could spend but I opted not to. To ask someone their budget first is a very bad sales tactic. Factors affecting budget: financing, available stock, loose or set stones, styles available, personal connection etc etc. I would do the following if I were selling diamonds or jewelery:
1-are you looking for something specific? yes, no (if no then let me know if i can help you)
2-if yes, what are you looking for?
3-pretend 1 carat round engagement ring
4- do you have color clarity factors you would prefer? (look dazed or whatever) if they say they dont know THEN you say well may I ask what is your desired budget?..................then you say to your self--okay $1000 hmmmmmmmmmnot going to get much of a 1 carat ...........................maybe I should go over the 4c's and pricing parameters amnd then discuss their plan
5-if they say yes they may have an idea of what the stuff costs. and then you go from there

 

[denverappraiser]

“How much for a 1 carat VS2 F-H of excellent make?” is a fine way to start the conversation.

You’ve already told the jeweler quite a bit. You at least know the lingo. You’ve got some idea of what you consider to be an excellent make, what VS2 means and you almost certainly have an opinion on what you think stones of these specs should cost. You’ve already been shopping elsewhere and are now confirming or denying what someone else has told you.

Obviously, the salesperson is hoping to convince you that you should buy from them rather than their competitors. Step #1 will be to answer your question. “Yes ma’am, we sell those. Here’s a fine example.”. Now they need to figure out what the real issues are. Are they competing against a VS2 or is the lowest cost provider really selling an SI2 that they‘re calling VS2? What do you mean by excellent make? Do you really want a branded h&a stone and are willing to pay the premium to get it or would you be satisfied with a stone that’s got a 3rd tier lab report and a Sarin sticker? This sort of detail can make an enormous difference and the compromises involved are usually driven by the price.

Shopping for a jeweler is related, but not identical, to shopping for a diamond although they often happen simultaneously. If you can determine that the price for a particular product will vary depending on your budget, you should avoid shopping at that jeweler entirely, not just avoid buying that particular item.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Roughdealer]

Brilliat prices depends on who owns it and Where you buy. If you go to a High scale , too much prestigious Jewerly , you must to pay for a " agregate value" ??? for your stone , mostly up to 40 - 50 % , for 3K or so , u can surf the web and find a good 1ct or near with GIA certificate. trough several reputable online diamond shops. Pls , diamonds come from the fields ,and have intrinsic value , they havent " Brand" ?? or so. I suggest u , surf little more the web and u can get best deal... an more important , a BIGGER STONE......

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/28/2005 11:05:51 AM
Author: windowshopper

Date: 10/28/2005 10:02:54 AM
Author: Wink

Date: 10/28/2005 9:47:58 AM
Author: windowshopper
TO REGULAR GUY: just to clarify on the ''that is irrelevant'' phrase. i wouldnt be so so blunt-- i was somewhat abbreviating for typing sake............

I see you typed a clarification while I was typing. I am glad to see it, and I can honestly say I was hoping that was the case. Glad to see that it was. Sometimes things come across differently when we type than what we really mean.

Wink

i hate typing and i am not good at it so it is EXHAUSTING for me....

However: I am not 100% with you on budget. Alot of people''s budget is dependant on many things. It may be flexible. When I was shopping for a new stone I had more to spend then I really wanted to spend. SO I saw a few things that were as expensive as what I could spend but I opted not to. To ask someone their budget first is a very bad sales tactic. Factors affecting budget: financing, available stock, loose or set stones, styles available, personal connection etc etc. I would do the following if I were selling diamonds or jewelery:
1-are you looking for something specific? yes, no (if no then let me know if i can help you)
2-if yes, what are you looking for?
3-pretend 1 carat round engagement ring
4- do you have color clarity factors you would prefer? (look dazed or whatever) if they say they dont know THEN you say well may I ask what is your desired budget?..................then you say to your self--okay $1000 hmmmmmmmmmnot going to get much of a 1 carat ...........................maybe I should go over the 4c''s and pricing parameters amnd then discuss their plan
5-if they say yes they may have an idea of what the stuff costs. and then you go from there

I do it slightly different than you suggest, but I have the advantage of having a by appointment only office rather than a retail store so it is easier for me to do it my way.

When you come in, we will sit at my desk and talk for a few minutes just to get to know one another. This includes asking how you found me since I do no local advertising at all. It is amazing how many people here in Boise find me on the net, but most of my local traffic is from referrals. This can take from one or two minutes if you are in a hurry, to fifteen or twenty minutes if we get on a mutually interesting topic, such as kayaking, camping, beautiful places we have been, or the local football team. (GO BRONCOS!)

Then I will ask you what you know about diamonds and ask if I might give you a short presentation on the 4c''s, just to make sure the information you have been given so far is correct. It is AMAZING to me how much utter garbage is fed to people and if those of us who do know the truth don''t check we run the risk of not helping our clients to know what is correct and what is not.

If you say yes, I give the presentation, if you say no, I will just go to the next step which is to ask you what you are looking for. (Even if you say no I will ask your permission to show you the latest information on diamond cutting, which almost every one allows me to do.)

I will then show you diamonds and give you prices and allow you to tell me if you wish to spend more or less. In Idaho you quickly learn that the guy with cow poop on his boots and ratty blue jeans that obviously have been worn for years can often buy and sell your whole business without much thought so we always assume you can spend what ever you want and then you will direct us to where you want to be.

I don''t even own a showcase, we just sit and talk and pass treasures back and forth across the desk. So you can see that we are in agreement about the crucial point here, I DO NOT ASK YOU WHAT YOUR BUDGET IS! Not to say I never slip up, but it is very rare.

I think someday, maybe within 5 - 10 years it will be possible and inexpensive to do a similar thing on the net, where we have a virtual sit down and show things while we talk. That will be a LOT of fun for every one, but I bet most salesmen will still ask, what is your budget...

Wink

 

[cheetahman]

I'm a noobie and just went through this process myself. I didn't get too far in before I was asked what my budget was at the first place I went to. Because I knew I wasn't going to buy that day, I figured I'd humor him and throw out a 8K-10K figure and pick his brain. Then I was going to go back and compare prices. I hadn't found this Pricescope beforehand, so I didn't really know what was what.

Anyway, from a consumer point of view, when he first asked what my budget was, the DANGER WILL ROBINSON came up for me. I guess it's like if I were to ask how much something was in Mexico and getting a response of "How much you got?"

I'd prefer it handled somewhat like above but split #4 into a few steps:

4a: Have you been looking for long? Would you like me to go over the basics of buying a diamond?
4b: After the customer is eduacated or if he's educated already, then (and this is really different), show him a chart with all the four C's of several diamonds that you have in the store at several price ranges. That way the customer can pick the price range for himself and know that it's not a situation where the price of the diamond is fluctuating to fit his "budget".

Maybe I like the chart idea because I'm very analytical.

 

[WinkHPD]

Not a bad idea Cheatahman, but I would hate to be the poor snuffy in the back room making up all those charts!

Wink

 

[cheetahman]

I would think the chart would take about 5 minutes in Excel. You probably really only need 10-20 diamonds on the sheet. I don''t run a jewelry store or anything, but I would think that you''d want to have your inventory computerized to some degree. That would make it largely cut and paste, I would think.

 

[decodelighted]

After the customer is eduacated show him a chart with all the four C''s of several diamonds that you have in the store at several price ranges. That way the customer can pick the price range for himself and know that it''s not a situation where the price of the diamond is fluctuating to fit his ''budget''.Maybe I like the chart idea because I''m very analytical.

Oh that''s a hoot! Betcha want car dealers to do the same type of thing, huh? And Real Estate agents, and, why not -- Surgeons ...

If only life was "fair" ...

 

[cheetahman]

Well car dealers already do it to a very large extent. Every dealership, I''ve been to has had a price on the car. Obviously the price can come down from there, but it''s not like that price can change based on the customer''s wallet. Cars also have the benefit of being more or the same - a 2003 Ford Focus is a 2003 Ford Focus, so you can easily buy online and know exactly what you are getting. There''s also not a 30% mark-up to buy in at a dealer vs. online like diamonds.

Real Estate has ISoldMyHouse.com and those for sale by owner sites. There''s also Zip Reality that''s creating more efficient markets for real estate. Every MLS search I''ve ever done has a price attached to it. Again you can haggle the price from there, but you get your chart.

A surgeon is a different ball of wax, because they aren''t selling a product, but a service and a skill. In that case, overpaying by 30% might be the best choice you ever made.