UNCERTIFIED DIAMONDS!!!!

[YMA]

Would anyone here consider purchasing a uncertified stone?

Right now I have a cert. 2.02ct Radiant cut( J-SI1). But I went to my jeweler and they had a lovely uncert. 3.00 Radiant stone, of which when placed next to mine looked 1 shade lighter in color and honestly I couldn''t really see a big difference in clarity either.

Opinions, remarks, advice please??????

 

[KristyDarling]

Personally, I like to have all my paperwork in order. For a purchase as large as a diamond, I want to know exactly what I''m getting. I do "listen" to my eye and remember that the bottom line is whether it appears beautiful to me, and I try not to obssess over every measurement and angle and whatnot, but even so, it''s nice to know what a professional grader at a reputable lab has thought of my diamond before I shell out the big bucks.

Were you quoted a very good price?

 

[strmrdr]

3ct uncerted?
no way in heck would i even consider it.

 

[YMA]

I have a 2.02ct radiant (J-SI1) and paid @ 7200. for it, the uncert. stone is a 3ct Radiant and is $9800.00, and I can use my current stone as a upgrade.

Actually when place next to my current stone even before the jeweler said it I noticed it looked like a better color grade.


Oh, yeah it is laser drilled without and fillers(?)

 

[Kaleigh]

Whoa, your diamond is laser drilled or the other diamond 3 carat is laser drilled??? That aside I would never get a 3 carat without a cert.

 

[Bagpuss]

The main reason for having a cert is to check that you are paying the correct price for what you are getting. Small variations in colour, clarity and carat weight can make a huge difference to the cost of a diamond.

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 10/23/2005 6:25:00 PM
Author: YMA
I have a 2.02ct radiant (J-SI1) and paid @ 7200. for it, the uncert. stone is a 3ct Radiant and is $9800.00, and I can use my current stone as a upgrade.

Actually when place next to my current stone even before the jeweler said it I noticed it looked like a better color grade.


Oh, yeah it is laser drilled without and fillers(?)

I was thinking that sounded fine (I don''t have to necessarily have a cert) but my theoretical line in the sand is a laser drilled diamond. I would be afraid to buy it. JMO.

 

[JohnQuixote]

A 3ct drilled diamond with no lab report is rare fare for discussion around here.

It really depends on what your personal standards and expectations are. If this is a big diamond at a price you like and you are not concerned over strict pedigree it could be a fun get. Fracture filled / clarity enhanced diamonds are not to my taste, but I know consumers who don't mind them.

To get an idea of what this is worth relative to like diamonds in its class and category I suggest you and the seller agree to have it independently appraised for you.

 

[YMA]

My current diamond is not laser drilled, it is 2.02ct Radiant with a GIA cert.


How would I approach the cert. subject with the jeweler? They have a exchange or credit only policy no full refunds.

Do I send it out to get certified?

 

[YMA]

I was only considering it b/c when I placed it next to my current stone, it actually looked whiter then my current J colored SI1 stone.

Quite honestly I couldn''t notice that much difference in clarity either.

Other then that I would not have even looked at it. The price of the stone is $9800.00.

 

[jaz464]

I would not buy a diamond without a cert. I recommend, at the very least, that a trusted, independent appraiser examine the stone first? Don''t you want to know what your paying for? To me, its kind of like buying a used vehicle w/o an odometer.

 

[moremoremore]

Laser drilling aside...which I wouuldn''t do...

I would *absolutely* get a diamond without a cert....the vendor would have to be trusted and I would use a pricescope appraiser. I don''t see the big deal...but I see a potentially huge savings!

 

[diamondlil]

Laser drilled/fracutre filled, no way in a million years, period.

 

[ame]

I wouldn''t do it because it''s drilled. Immediately ruins it. The lack of cert on that size, also a no-go. I recommned you avoid this stone.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/23/2005 7:11:09 PM
Author: YMA
I was only considering it b/c when I placed it next to my current stone, it actually looked whiter then my current J colored SI1 stone.

Quite honestly I couldn''t notice that much difference in clarity either.

Other then that I would not have even looked at it. The price of the stone is $9800.00.

don''t do it.what you pay is what you''ll get.

 

[Bagpuss]

Many people here wouldn''t touch a drilled/filled stone with a barge pole, so you''re not going to get a lot of support on this forum for going for this diamond. You have to decide for yourself whether it bothers you that much. I''d certainly get an independent appraisal if you do decide to go ahead though, so that you know if this is a fair price for this particular diamond.

One other thing to consider is, if you wanted sell this diamond privately, you might face all sorts of problems because it is filled. Many people seem to be vary wary of drilled/filled diamonds. Would your jeweller upgrade this diamond in the same way that he''s offering to upgrade the one you have? These are some of the things you need to consider.

 

[YMA]

I don''t know if this makes much difference but the stone isn''t filled, it just laser drilled.

It has the letters LD, which I have come to believe means Laser Drilled. It hasn''t be filled.

I wouldn''t haven''t even considered it if the jeweler hadn''t placed it next to my current stone and I actually couldn''t see any difference, but then again I am no diamond expert.

But one noticable difference was the color of the uncert. stone which was better then my current J colored stone.

 

[Bagpuss]

To be honest I don''t know much about these diamonds so I did an Internet search and came up with this quote:

Lasered Diamond
Lasered diamond is one that has been laser drilled into the diamond to a dark inclusions. This is a sophisticated method that to remove the dark substance (diamond graphite). "Soaking" or "Deep Boiling" needs to be applied in order to totally remove those dark inclusions. This leaves a white inclusion and a very small (microscopic) hole. The drill is a permanent change to the diamond, however it is accepted today within the trade and it is the only enhancement that most labs will certify.

These lazered diamonds are not filled. It seems that clarity enhanced diamonds go for up to 30% to 50% less than normal diamonds. Hope this helps.

 

[hoorray]

Date: 10/23/2005 8:20:44 PM
Author: moremoremore
Laser drilling aside...which I wouuldn''t do...

I would *absolutely* get a diamond without a cert....the vendor would have to be trusted and I would use a pricescope appraiser. I don''t see the big deal...but I see a potentially huge savings!

Ditto!

Certs are primarily about confirming that thes tone is what it is being sold as. There are other ways to do this, such as using a trusted appraiser who will provide a full report including market value.

 

[YMA]

Where on the EGL Or GIA report does it show laser drilled? Does the intials LD mean laser drilled?

 

[recran]

I''d only get it if I were certain that was the stone I wanted for the rest of my life (no upgrades) and that it was a good deal and that I loved loved loved it. I earlier considered getting an uncerted or EGL stone, but then I realized I need AGS or GIA in order to upgrade it. And I KNOW I''ll want to upgrade periodically. Even when I get to the three carat range (which is what I ideally want), I''ll still probably get AGS/GIA jic I want to swap it when I''m old for something crazy huge.

 

[denverappraiser]

Laser drilling has a bigger effect on the value of some stones than others but it’s always a significant issue. It’s important to note that this process is importantly different from the filling known as clarity enhancement and techniques used are getting increasingly difficult to detect. It’s becoming a problem for appraisers. The process is permanent and can’t be reversed. On a standard lab report, it will appear in the ‘comments’ section as well as in the plot.

A new 3 ct. stone without a lab report in 2005 is a very unusual item indeed. It’s possible, but it’s far more likely that someone in the chain ‘lost’ it because they didn’t like some of the contents. Offer to the jeweler that you would be willing to buy the stone if it had a GIA report. Leave a deposit and have them send it to GIA. If it comes back with everything as described, you both buy the stone and pay the GIA fee. If it comes back with a lower grade, the jeweler pays the fee and refunds the deposit in full. If you still want to buy it, you negotiate a new deal based on the new information.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[NEdiamondguy]

I will vote one for the good Jewelers of America here. A LOT of quality jewelers cell un-certed stones, ourselves included. Why? Because the certs cost them and you money! On average a GIA cert on a stone should add about $150 to the stone''s cost. And even a cert with all of the "alphabet soup" out there is no guarantee that your stone is graded correctly.

My store has a policy in place called "zero tolerance". Whether the stone is certed or not, we will back the grading 100%. If there is a doubt in your mind,we will send the stone to GIA. If it comes back different than we say, we pay you $250 cash, we replace your diamond at the stated grade or better and we pay for the GIA cert.

On to the next thorny issue...most of the "good labs" will not even touch a laser drilled or enhanced stone for grading. They will send it back with a statement saying that the stone has been enhanced and refuse to grade. Those that will, will cal it an "SI2 clarity enhanced". But what was it before??? Good luck and keep looking!

M.

 

[denverappraiser]

M.

I applaud you for your guarantee. How often does someone take you up on it?

The problem is less at the jewelry store than at their suppliers. For most diamonds, the road to the lab starts right at the cutting house. It''s just another step in the process. You''re right, theiy add to the price but they also add to the percieved value. A 3 carat stone bound for the US will sell faster and for more money if it''s presented with documentation and the cutters are well aware of this. They have to make a decision on every stone. Get a GIA, get an AGS, get an EGL, get an IGI, get something else or get nothing. They already know what they think the grading is when they make this decision and these companies have plenty of highly qualified graders. It''s not that hard and they know what they''re doing. The real question is what sort of documentation would best accompany a particular stone in order to maximize money. The money is almost always on the side of getting the ''cert''.

The next step is a little more insidious. The cuter decides which lab to send the stone to, sends it off and gets an exam. Now what? If they like the results there is no problem, they sell it through their usual channels. What if they don''t like it? Their choices are to complain to the lab, send it to a different lab, or sell it without a grading report. Again, this decision will be based on the money, not the gemology. This same process can be repeated by importers, wholesalers and jewelry stores if they don''t like the paperwork presented. The problem is almost never that the reported grade is too high.

The affect of all this on the consumer is difficult to trace. An ungraded 3 carat stone is a red flag. It''s nearly certain that at least one lab has seen the stone and that someone didn''t like what was reported. Why not? Betcha it''s the grading although maybe it''s the laser comment or some other attribute that''s seen as undesirable. The report was buried and the stone moved on to the next step. An old diamond dealer once told me that a cert is like a bikini on a girl. What it conceals is even more imporatant than what it reveals. The fact that the report is missing entirely is an important piece of information all by itself.

Both GIA and AGS will grade laser drilled stones. I''ve know of no lab that won''t. ''Enhanced'' is a different matter.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[MissAva]

This is not a shot an NEdiamondguy.
As a rule of thumb if a jeweler tries to sell me a stone without grading papers I feel like they are trying to pull one over me. Diamonds are very emotional purchases and 9/10 people buy them so they can present them to their new owner ASAP or wear the stone themselves as soon as it is set. Having the stone graded by a lab takes time and money that the purchasers is not going to want to spend After have bought a new diamond and what if something happens to it while on it way to or from the grading house? To me someone trying to convince me, personally, to purchase an ungraded stone would be enough to have me leaving that store and not returning.

 

[perry]

I would, and have purchased uncertified diamonds. But I ran them by an excellent appraiser (with all kinds of equipment) to verify what I was getting. I will also admit that they were smaller diamonds.

I would consider purchasing a larger diamond that is uncertified if I knew I had a good reputable dealer, inspected the stone very carefully, had the dealer sign a piece of paper that the dimaond had not been treated or enhanced, and sent it to a top notch appraiser.

I would also consider a larger estate diamond with the right background (and again - sent for appraisal).

However, I would not buy a diamond just because it looked good or better than the one I had based on sight alone. There are too many ways a diamond can be treated that you cannot see.

I will note, that I do not have a inherent problem with the concept of enhanced or treated diamonds (or even lab grown). As long as you know that is what you are getting. I might even buy one for some purpose sometime (but the dealer will have to honestly present it to me as enhanced or treated).

Perry

 

[YMA]

I DID NOT, I REPEAT DID NOT GET THE UNCERT STONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


As gorgeous as it look when placed next to mine I followed everyones advice, instead I upgraded to a 2.5c I-SI1 radiant stone. I will follow with pictures & cert. numbers shortly.

 

[Kaleigh]

Great, can''t wait to see it, congrats!!!

 

[YMA]

Kaleigh,

You seem to know alot about diamonds........


What can you tell from these numbers?????


2.55 GIA Cert.

Color: I

Clarity: SI1

Depth: 68%

8.37 X 7.28 X 5.08

I don''t have the cert in front of me but this what I remember.

I have no IDEA how to read those measurement numbers.

 

[Kaleigh]

Sorry YMA, but I don''t know radiants well at all. I''m sure others will chime in to help you. Also tomorrow David from DBL knows radiants inside and out and he will help you I''m sure. Good luck!!