FURIOUS!

[PGTips]

Date: 10/23/2005 5:25:41 PM
Author: lumpkin
This is a bummer and I''m sorry you had that experience with Abazias. I''m also not sure there is much they can do about getting the cert because they are brokers, and the diamonds and the certs come from whoever actually has them. If there is no record of the certificate number and Abazias can''t get that info (perhaps it was lost, perhaps your actual stone was never certified, etc.) they really don''t have much control over that, I wouldn''t think. Not that I think that''s an excuse exactly. They should take steps to make sure it doesn''t happen again and try to work with you in some way. What would put you at ease? You may need to tell them, ''Look, it''s going to take having this stone recertified to make me happy with this...'' or whatever it is you want to do. I''m going to go in another direction here. Do you really need the cert? You had it appraised and it''s a beautiful diamond, worth what you paid for it if I understand correctly. However, if you are angry every time you look at that diamond and have negative feelings about the whole transaction, maybe you should talk to Abazias about sending it back in exchange for a stone that DOES have the certificate for the same amount of money (or comparable) to what you paid. Maybe they will agree to that. If so, have them pay for a new head, heck, have them set it for you if you are worried about the prongs. I woudn''t be unless the jeweler who resets it says it is not reusable. Most times you can use the same head with no problem.


Good luck and hope the situation is resolved in a way you are satisfied.

Hi Lumpkin - Thanks for your post. Yeah, I really do want that certificate. We paid a huge chunk of cash (huge to us, may not be huge to others, but in our budget, almost $6k is a big chunk) for a diamond that was sold to us as being "certified." I''m quite sure that if a company tried to sell a diamond without a certificate, the price would have to be much-reduced.

I didn''t feel angry looking at my diamond in the beginning. But now, its starting to get that way. I''m feeling resentful when I think that we''re being ignored, or that this issue is definitely not a priority to Abazias. Of course, I can almost bet you that when they finally contact me, it will be something like "_____ was out of town, so we didn''t see the emails until now" or they''ll say there was some problem with voicemail. That always seems to be the way when companies fail to respond.

I will definitely want Leon Mege to do the work on my ring if Abazias says the diamond needs to be re-certified. I will ask Leon if the prong strength will be at all compromised by removing the diamond. If he says yes, I will tell Abazias that I will want a new head put on the setting.

My husband and I have been trying to take pictures of the setting that Leon made for me. Its the simple Harry Winston style platinum solitaire. I love it. I love the claw prongs and feel happy to have it. I just hate that looking at it (which I do hundreds of times a day, admittedly) is a constant reminder of this yucky situation with the diamond seller.

 

[door knob solitaire]

Pricescope,

Hip Hip horray!! Did I understand that you emailed this discussion and are awaiting their reply?

That is superlative!...or Supercalifragilisticexpealodocious!!

(poo, I can''t remember how to spell that word! Can You?)

I appreciate your effort. I am sure the board is pleased too.

Thank you.

Door Knob Solitaire

 

[door knob solitaire]

PG-

Please post pictures. We are all in a lather over the topic...we do need to see the Leon Masterpiece!! Claw prongs HW inspired solitaire...come on throw us a bone.

Thanks,

DKS

 

[PGTips]

Date: 10/23/2005 6:04:10 PM
Author: Pricescope
PGTips, first of all thank you for sharing your experience and the problem. It is frustrating indeed.


As Jonathan wrote here, ''All the vendors on this forum, including me do make honest mistakes from time to time and sometimes jobs get overlooked, etc..''.


The vendors who made a mistake or didn''t deliver what was promised must resolve the situation and offer you an acceptable solution.


We emailed to Abazias about this discussion. Let''s see what solution they will suggest.

Date: 10/23/2005 5:36:14 PM

Author: mrssalvo


... I do belive however that just because someone is an e-vendor on this site or advertises here does not mean Pricescope endorses or recommends them. it''s our job to research which of the companies have good track records, provide good customer service, detailed info on the stones etc...


i don''t know either, maybe Pricescope will jump in and clarify for us

Clarifications.



Formal: Pricescope does not endorse any vendor (see our Terms of Use and Disclaimer as well as legal notice at the vendor''s list and diamond search results).


Informal: Mrssalvo is correct. We believe that providing an open platform for consumers to share their experience is the best way to keep consumers aware. We are not a police however if there is a proof of a wrongdoing, that advertiser will be removed from Pricesope.

Leonid -

Thanks for your comments. I have no problem with you emailing Abazias. I am glad that you did. I turned to this forum because I was hoping it would help me get some answers. I keep feeling like maybe Abazias is telling me the truth and that they really are working hard to help me. But, on the other hand, why should it take this much time to get what we paid for months ago? And why aren''t they following up with me on their progress? It seems like they should be accountable for this problem and I would like an answer and to have some results.

If/when Abazias resolves this problem, I will be more than happy to tell the forum.

Thanks for your help.

 

[PGTips]

Date: 10/23/2005 6:06:24 PM
Author: JCJD
Any chance Leon has the diamond receipt and forgot to send it along with the completed ring? Maybe if you can get Leon informed about this situation he can give more advice and perhaps pull some strings with Abazias to get things moving faster?

Thanks for the suggestion, JCJD. I''ll ask Leon if he might have the receipt floating around somewhere.

 

[PGTips]

DKS -

My husband is perfecting his picture-taking techniques right now. As its midnight here, it doesn''t look likely that we''ll be posting pics tonight. Though it is looking hopeful that he has figured out how to get the camera to take close ups of a diamond ring! I''ll post something in the next day or so once we figure this camera out. Thanks for asking.

Also, thanks for all your support.

 

[Bagpuss]

Date: 10/23/2005 6:21:56 PM
Author: door knob solitaire
Pricescope,

Hip Hip horray!! Did I understand that you emailed this discussion and are awaiting their reply?

That is superlative!...or Supercalifragilisticexpealodocious!!

(poo, I can''t remember how to spell that word! Can You?)

I appreciate your effort. I am sure the board is pleased too.

Thank you.

Door Knob Solitaire

Yep, it''s nice to see a bit of back up. Nice one, Pricescope.

Vendors get a lot of good PR from happy customers on this forum; but they should always remember that bad PR spreads even faster.

 

[Kaleigh]

Way to go Pricescope!!!! PGTips, I hope this gets resolved very soon and look forward to seeing your pics when you get a chance to post them.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 10/23/2005 6:04:10 PM
Author: Pricescope
We are not a police however if there is a proof of a wrongdoing, that advertiser will be removed from Pricesope.

You have stated in the rules that this forum does not exist primarily for the resolution of private disputes, so I am really glad to see you going out on a limb to advocate for a fair resolution for a consumer here. In fact, it gives me even greater incentive to use a vendor who advertizes on Pricescope and wants its goodwill when I am making a purchase. If I buy from someone else, I have no one behind me in the case of egregious abuse. I applaud your actions.

Deborah

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 10/23/2005 1:55:45 PM
Author:PGTips

What do I do? I am feeling absolutely sick. This diamond, while it was a good deal for what we got, is worth far less without its certificate. Abazias said that they are not able to get a duplicate made of the original EGL certificate. So that leaves me thinking they would need to re-certify the diamond by taking it out of the setting. I am sure this weakens the prongs, doesn't it? That is the last thing I would want.

I'm at a loss as to what we should do. How do I get this company respond to me? What do I do now??

Hi PG. Sorry to hear about the stress this has caused you. Last thing you need when you're in the middle of the marrying process, eh?

For what it's worth, I don't think your diamond is "worth far less without its (EGL) certificate". The diamond is what it is, and it was quite a beauty which you purchased at an very good price, as I remember. On top of all that you've got it mounted in a ring by a designer of note, Leon Mege.

Personally, I don't think you even need the EGL report. You've got my report, which is about five times as comprehensive as an EGL report, and will serve you in good stead for any and all insurance purposes. If something should ever happen to the diamond or ring you are assured of a replacement of as good or better quality.

I can understand you not wanting to go through the trouble of having the diamond removed to be re-certed. If you do go that route, I would recommend as well having Leon do the work. I don't think you'd want an ordinary setter messing around with the work of a master. It would be like having an ordinary watchmaker repairing a fine Patek Philippe.

Personally, I wouldn't bother. You've got a gorgeous stone purchased at a great price set by a master craftsman. Not having the cert is upsetting, but doesn't really harm you in any way unless you were to resell the ring, in which case it would be moderately advantageous to have the EGL certification.

But that's something you'll probably never do, and if you ever did, you could have it re-certified at that time if you wanted, although it might not even be necessary then.

If it were me, I would just ask Abazias to reimburse you the cost of the cert and possibly a small discount for not having purchased a "certified" stone as they represented. And then forget about it, unless and until you ever want to have the diamond re-certified in the future. Perhaps some day you will see another ring mounting you want. That would be the perfect time to have the stone re-certified, when you are having it re-set for some reason.

In the meantime, don't let the absence of a piece of paper make you feel bad about the stone. It is a beauty. As I remember, I was a grade tougher on the color than EGL, and it still was a great purchase. The Leon Mege mounting doesn't hurt either.

I'll call Abazias Monday on your behalf. Perhaps I might have more luck getting them to respond. By the way, do you know which EGL lab did the report? I'll fax them a copy of my report to see if they can identify the stone with that.

 

[jaz464]

When the diamond was appraised, what did Richard go by? Did he examine the diamond himself to determine color, clarity, etc? Or did he have a cert to look at?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 10/23/2005 8:07:21 PM
Author: jazmine
When the diamond was appraised, what did Richard go by? Did he examine the diamond himself to determine color, clarity, etc? Or did he have a cert to look at?

Hi Jazmine. I always go by my own findings, and did personally examine PG''s diamond (with no EGL cert to look at).

I knew the grade EGL had said the stone was, but graded it one color grade less than they did (same clarity). As I remember, Abazias also felt the stone was a color grade less than EGL''s opinion. Wasn''t that right PG?

 

[Mara]

i would trust Rich's expert eyes over an EGL report anyday.

PG...one option could be to take it back to Rich or a jeweler, have them unset it, send the diamond to GIA and have it certed for $150 or $200 or whatever it costs, and then you have a GIA certed diamond and an expert appraisal as well, so you are covered if that worries you. Then have it re-set. I don't think that unsetting and resetting is a big deal if the right person does it, I have had 3 different sized diamonds in my same ring-head and same prongs over the last 3 years and have not had a problem (knock on wood!).

If you did this, I would see if Abazias will pay for the GIA cert'ing and un-setting/re-setting costs. So you are out no additional money, have an arguably more valuable stone with a GIA cert vs an EGL (which are discounted many times a significant amount) and everyone is happy.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 10/23/2005 8:17:46 PM
Author: Mara
i would trust Rich's expert eyes over an EGL report anyday.

PG...one option could be to take it back to Rich or a jeweler, have them unset it, send the diamond to GIA and have it certed for $150 or $200 or whatever it costs, and then you have a GIA certed diamond and an expert appraisal as well, so you are covered if that worries you. Then have it re-set. I don't think that unsetting and resetting is a big deal if the right person does it, I have had 3 different sized diamonds in my same ring-head and same prongs over the last 3 years and have not had a problem (knock on wood!).


If you did this, I would see if Abazias will pay for the GIA cert'ing and un-setting/re-setting costs. So you are out no additional money and everyone is happy.

i second this. rich did the appraisal for my OEC stone and I too trust his eyes and his reports completely. If you really want the cert I think mara's suggestion of seeing if Abazias will cover the cost would be a great solution..

 

[jaz464]

style="WIDTH: 101.85%; HEIGHT: 116px">Date: 10/23/2005 8:17:46 PM
Author: Mara
i would trust Rich's expert eyes over an EGL report anyday.

I agree. Richard appraised my diamond and I trust him over EGL personally. I wholeheartedly agree with Richard that you do not need a cert. I can understand being upset about this situation, but I would contact Abazias to refund you some amount of $ for buying an uncerted diamond and then try to put this behind you. You considered the diamond beautiful before this whole predicament, so please don't let this stand in the way of its beauty for you now.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Gee, thanks guys.

Rich, feeling warm & fuzzy all over... (could it be the wine?)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Important things first - Rich my cousin gave me a bottle of Napa valley Ravenswood wine - is that good stuff?

Minor topic - a suggestion - if the stone must come out for re-grading - a coompromise - have Abaias refund you Rich''s fee, and just fly with his paper (which i would place 10 times more weight on) (even if he is a drunkard wino) (like me).

Hi Rich

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 10/23/2005 9:16:52 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Important things first - Rich my cousin gave me a bottle of Napa valley Ravenswood wine - is that good stuff?


Minor topic - a suggestion - if the stone must come out for re-grading - a coompromise - have Abaias refund you Rich''s fee, and just fly with his paper (which i would place 10 times more weight on) (even if he is a drunkard wino) (like me).


Hi Rich

Ravenswood is okay.....about like that Australian stuff.

Heh heh heh

Maybe I''ll go out and buy a bottle to refresh my memory. I wonder if I can find a liquor store that hasn''t shut down because of this pesky hurricane.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

By the way, while I''m thinking of it, I''ve always found Abazias to be a credible, high integrity operation.

I bet this is one of those nagging loose ends that they don''t realize is as important to you as it is, PG. I''d be surprised if there was any "funny stuff" going on. They just don''t seem like that type of operation to me.

 

[PGTips]

Date: 10/23/2005 8:17:46 PM
Author: Mara
i would trust Rich''s expert eyes over an EGL report anyday.

PG...one option could be to take it back to Rich or a jeweler, have them unset it, send the diamond to GIA and have it certed for $150 or $200 or whatever it costs, and then you have a GIA certed diamond and an expert appraisal as well, so you are covered if that worries you. Then have it re-set. I don''t think that unsetting and resetting is a big deal if the right person does it, I have had 3 different sized diamonds in my same ring-head and same prongs over the last 3 years and have not had a problem (knock on wood!).


If you did this, I would see if Abazias will pay for the GIA cert''ing and un-setting/re-setting costs. So you are out no additional money, have an arguably more valuable stone with a GIA cert vs an EGL (which are discounted many times a significant amount) and everyone is happy.

Mara -

Thanks for your suggestion and reassurance about the prongs. Your suggestion is exactly what I would want to do. If the stone needs to be taken out, I will not get another EGL report done, I will want a GIA report.

 

[PGTips]

Date: 10/23/2005 11:20:33 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 10/23/2005 9:16:52 PM

Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Important things first - Rich my cousin gave me a bottle of Napa valley Ravenswood wine - is that good stuff?



Minor topic - a suggestion - if the stone must come out for re-grading - a coompromise - have Abaias refund you Rich''s fee, and just fly with his paper (which i would place 10 times more weight on) (even if he is a drunkard wino) (like me).



Hi Rich

Ravenswood is okay.....about like that Australian stuff.


Heh heh heh


Maybe I''ll go out and buy a bottle to refresh my memory. I wonder if I can find a liquor store that hasn''t shut down because of this pesky hurricane.

Thanks for the suggestion. I''m sorry, but I do think it is still important to have the certificate. Yes, I am extremely comforted by the fact that we had a highly reputable appraiser (Richard Sherwood) appraise my diamond. I said that from the beginning. But, Since the diamond was sold as "certified," I would like to own a certificate as well. If, a few years down the road we decide to upgrade, I am sure that having a certificate would be a very good thing. Someone else might not know who Richard is and might not put as much stock in his appraisal as they do an actual GIA or EGL certificate.

Also, on this site there is a thread on buying uncertified diamonds. Last time I checked most people were pretty adamant in their responses that they would NOT buy and uncertified diamond. That is essentially what I have.

 

[PGTips]

Date: 10/23/2005 11:24:32 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
By the way, while I''m thinking of it, I''ve always found Abazias to be a credible, high integrity operation.


I bet this is one of those nagging loose ends that they don''t realize is as important to you as it is, PG. I''d be surprised if there was any ''funny stuff'' going on. They just don''t seem like that type of operation to me.

Richard -

I doubt there is really any "funny stuff" going on on Abazias end. But, I have to disagree about whether they know how important this is to me. I have sent them at least six emails over the months and spoken with them on the phone about this a couple of times. The rep I have dealt with KNOWS! She has assured me that they are "working on it" on more than one occasion. But now that response just doesn''t seem good enough. I feel as though we have definitely fallen through the cracks and our situation is not being given any priority. My emails and calls were not enough to stress this point, I guess.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

PG GIA will have your stone for a month or more

AGS will be much quicker and have a history of being even more strict.
They also perform grading reports that do not include cut grades - this might be better for eventual resale.

However the buyer next time round might not want the report you choose.

 

[valeria101]

Arrgh... sorry to hear that things didn't get to their due happy end by now

So... if you are personally satisfied with the appraisal, why go for a lab report now? If it will only serve if you resell the diamond one day, than chances are whoever the buyer is will want a new lab report anyway.

I am saying this with the assumption that the original lab report is not retrievable and it is you (not the seller) who will pay for the report.

Just a thought...

 

[AGBF]

Date: 10/24/2005 7:24:54 AM
Author: valeria101
So... if you are personally satisfied with the appraisal, why go for a lab report now?

Ana,

You and Richard Sherwood make me sure that the stone is as described. (Or, perhaps I should say, you make me sure that the stone is, at least, as EGL describes stones! I noticed Rich graded it a bit differently).

The point, to me, is that PG was told she would get a cert.; wants a cert for her own peace of mind; and, worst of all, Abazias is driving her insane by refusing to answer her numerous e-mails and calls!.

You are suggesting she give up. Sure she could, but why should she have to? A reputable company CANNOT fail to return e-mail and phone messages!!!

Deb

 

[valeria101]

Date: 10/24/2005 7:32:57 AM
Author: AGBF


You are suggesting she give up. Sure she could, but why should she have to? A reputable company CANNOT fail to return e-mail and phone messages!!!

At least give up worry.

Anyway, I do believe PGTips can afford to give up on immediate certification. Abazias should not afford to !

At least not here, that is. I don't remember to have seen many posts about them lately.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/24/2005 7:32:57 AM
Author: AGBF

Date: 10/24/2005 7:24:54 AM

Author: valeria101

So... if you are personally satisfied with the appraisal, why go for a lab report now?

Ana,


You and Richard Sherwood make me sure that the stone is as described. (Or, perhaps I should say, you make me sure that the stone is, at least, as EGL describes stones! I noticed Rich graded it a bit differently).


The point, to me, is that PG was told she would get a cert.; wants a cert for her own peace of mind; and, worst of all, Abazias is driving her insane by refusing to answer her numerous e-mails and calls!.


You are suggesting she give up. Sure she could, but why should she have to? A reputable company CANNOT fail to return e-mail and phone messages!!!


Deb

Hammer hit nail head.
She paid for a cert so she should have a cert and should not have to justify wanting one.
Richard''s appraisal is the better piece of paper but she didn’t get what she paid for from Abazias that’s the bottom line.
I suspect that it is their supplier that is the root cause of the problem but Abazias represented it as having a cert therefore they are responsible for providing one.
They can if they wish go after their supplier to recover any loses AFTER they satisfy their customer.

 

[oldminer]

The situation is unfortunate, but can be improved. The vendor should be willing to get you a brand new report if they cannot supply the original report which is gone or never existed. It really does not matter in any meaningful way. You need to compromise your time and also allow the diamond to be removed to obtain the new report. If you are not willing to cooperate, you won't get a new report and complaining won't make it suddenly appear.

Both parties in this problem need to come together , calmy and peacefully, in order to resove this issue. A new report should be obtained at no cost to the consumer, but the consumer must agree to be without the diamoind for the requisite time for the lab process and also allow that it be removed and reset into the ring as a lab will not grade a mounted diamond.

I suppose the vendor would refund the cost of obtaining the report direct to the consumer if the consumer does not want to have the report, but prefers to settle the problem by a cash payout.

That's my 2 cents. I sure hope you can get this settled and move on with a degree of satisfaction.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 10/24/2005 9:04:42 AM
Author: oldminer
You need to compromise your time and also allow the diamond to be removed to obtain the new report. If you are not willing to cooperate, you won't get a new report and complaining won't make it suddenly appear.

Both parties in this problem need to come together , calmy and peacefully, in order to resove this issue. A new report should be obtained at no cost to the consumer, but the consumer must agree to be without the diamoind for the requisite time for the lab process and also allow that it be removed and reset into the ring as a lab will not grade a mounted diamond.

Dave,

I think you are off base on this. I just reread everything PG wrote in this thread and nowhere did I read that she was unwilling to have the stone removed or to be without it for a while. It is possible that she did say that and I missed it, however, in which case I would apprciate your showing me where it was said.

I only read that PG is concerned (I feel appropriately concerned) about whether the prongs will be weakened when the stone is removed from an expensive setting she paid for to be examined and that she wants assurance that her ring will be intact after the company finally gets her the certificate she is OWED.

I see no need for "compromise" on PG's part, because I see nothing she asked for as being any less than what is due her.

If a thief hits me over the head and takes my purse, is a "compromise" that we agree that he will keep half my cash and my lipstick and I will keep half the cash and the leather bag?

PS-In order to effect this "compromise" you suggest, Abazias would have to return PG's e-mails and phone calls. Don't forget that part of working it out. It's hard to work things out with someone who won't even speak to you.


Deb

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Here's some estimates of time and cost involved for (1) having the diamond removed and certed in New York, and (2) removed and certed in London by the Gem-A GTL Laboratory, a lab with a respected worldwide reputation.

GIA REPORT
$150 International shipping to Leon for removal (2-3 days)
$25? Leon’s removal (3 days?)
$50 Shipping to lab (1 day)
$200 Lab certification (30 days GIA)
$50 Shipping back to Leon (1 day)
$75? Leon resets (3 days?)
$150 International shipping to UK (2-3 days)
-------
$700 Estimate (42 to 48 days)

GEM-A GTL REPORT
$25? removal of diamond (3 days)
$50 shipping to lab (Gem-A GTL Lab in London) (1 day)
$200 lab report (10-15 days?)
$50 shipping back to diamond setter (1 day)
$75? setter resets (3 days?)
$50 shipping back to PGTips (1 day)
-------
$450 estimate (19 to 24 days)
$300 estimate if no shipping involved (16 to 21 days)

GEM-A GTL website- http://www.gem-a.info/laboratory/diamondGrading.htm

Besides the time and cost involved, the thing that bothers me about it is the removal and resetting of the diamond. It's a fact that prongs which have not been touched are stronger than prongs which have had a diamond removed and reset. I haven't seen a photo of the mounting, but I know that Leon often has prongs with nicely shaped tips. These might be affected during the removal/resetting process, and I (personally) wouldn't trust anyone other than Leon to make them perfect again if this occurred.

That's why I recommend not messing with it. It seems to me there's nothing to be gained from it at this point. A partial refund of some sort would seem to be more practical in terms of time, money and security.

This is assuming of course that the EGL report is not tracked down. If it is, then the problem is solved.