egl ?, here is the scenario

[patil22]

I need advice in a hurry.

I have a connection with someone who owns a jewerly store, in the business for 25 years. He has shown me a diamond he feels is amazing, It is certified by EGL, (noting the
Tolkowsky Cut and Hearts and Arrows), a GEMEX Report and an independent appraisal by a GIA well respected Gemologist. It is an ideal cut, F grade, SI1, round. It''s a 1.7 and looks amazing. My hesitation is it is EGL certifeid, not GIA, I had requested that we send it to GIa and he said it''s not worth it, basically he would sell it before and that he claims it is a stone he wished he had more of and not to worry about the certificate but that this is not a marginal stone, it is top grade. Any suggestions, he is a freind of a close freind. I also put a deposit on the stone with my credit card yesterday, is it true I have 3 business days to rescend the deposit legally if I change my mind, HELP!!!

 

[Regular Guy]

Anup,

The 3 day thing I think only applies to people who seek you out, like at your door, rather than you''re going to their place of business. On the other hand, you should expect to be treated as well as anyone who walks in their door, and most business have some sort of return or exchange policy. You might consider asking a 3rd party to call them blind, inquiring what their standard policy is; get that policy in writing.

Though for the convenience of not going through the worry you have, I generally advice to avoid EGL, but it may be lovely, perfect, and a value to boot. As you''ve intuited, though, even if you post established stats here (not a waste of time, if you want those reviewed), you will know better how accurate those are with an unbiased appraisal.

Regards,

 

[WinkHPD]

If you have reservations, and obviously you do, here is what I suggest. Offer to put the cost of the stone on an approval on your credit card, contingent on the stone coming back from GIA with an equal or better color and clarity grade than given by EGL. If the stone comes back lower grades then you have the privelege to rescind the purchase or accept a lower price from him.

This way he has the sale made if he is correct in his assertion that the stone is xyz grade and you have protection if he is incorrect.

Wink

 

[researcher]

If you look up some old threads here on EGL, you''ll discover that some EGL Labs (like Los Angeles) are actually pretty strict. So, if it''s from one of those locations and you trust the independent report you may be getting a big discount on a great stone!

 

[patil22]

Thanks,

Would you also consider NY as a strict EGL lab?

 

[Regular Guy]

Do read about EGL US here.

I''d have to think NY is a subset/part of US, no?

Yes, that sounds like good news.

Regards,

 

[moremoremore]

so you have any more stats about the stone?

 

[lumpkin]

This is just my gut, unprofessional opinion if I were in your situation. If it looks amazing in a variety of lighting, the proportions are in the ideal range, it''s an EGL USA lab, and you trust your jeweler I think you are okay. Just in case, if you were to send it to GIA and it came back with a grade or two lower, and/or the clarity was a little lower, would it still be a good value given the cut?

I''m not a super picky person. I would tend to compare it to other diamonds in the store and see how it performed visually. If it really dazzled me and I felt it would be a good value at a lower color/clarity from GIA, I''d go forward.

Just my $2 (inflation, you know).

 

[Giangi]

That stone is from EGL Israel. They are the only ones to use the ''''tolkowsky ideal cut'''' comment. I''d suggest you run a search to find out more experiences about this lab.

There are definitely mixed reviews. I think Wink gave you a very valid suggestion.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Everybody,
Giangi- we agree- Wink ususally gives the right advice.
Here, I would disagree though.

For one thing , GIA will cost a couple hun, and take a few weeks.
Second of all, it is likely that there's a good reason the diamond was not sent to GIA.
Pitl- Did you mean to say 1.70?
A 1.70 F/Si1 is a valuable stone- so it's kind of a red flag to see an EGL report on it. With stones of this caliber, in today's market, you need to have a GIA report. Cutters kow this and usually they only skip GIA if they don't get the grade they want.

As far as "strict" or which lab is this or that: If a lab is inconsistent, it means you can't tell if they'll be strict one day and lax the next.
That's GIA's strong point- they're not perfect, but generally they get it right.
I believe EGl USA ( NYC) was in a legal battle with another company called EGL- I don't know the current status of that action.

 

[patil22]

Thanks to everyone for the response.

This jeweler is well respected and a good friend of many friends of mine who swear by him, my gut is to make sure the EGL lab is a US lab, either NY or LA, of so I will then do a comparison to other stones in the stire, for brilliance and shine. If I feel ok, I may go with it, if it is not EGL US, I will not move forward with that. I know there are numbers on the report to check where it is from. Since he told me not to trust EGL from outside the US, I am assuming his stone is from the US.

Any suggestions on this???

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/14/2005 7:36:25 PM
Author: patil22
Thanks to everyone for the response.

This jeweler is well respected and a good friend of many friends of mine who swear by him, my gut is to make sure the EGL lab is a US lab, either NY or LA, of so I will then do a comparison to other stones in the stire, for brilliance and shine. If I feel ok, I may go with it, if it is not EGL US, I will not move forward with that. I know there are numbers on the report to check where it is from. Since he told me not to trust EGL from outside the US, I am assuming his stone is from the US.

Any suggestions on this???

keep in mind, EGL USA will bring a lower price than AGS/GIA stones of the same grade.don''t let the vendor convince you otherwise.

 

[cutes814]

Date: 10/14/2005 11:26:41 AM
Author:patil22
I need advice in a hurry.

I have a connection with someone who owns a jewerly store, in the business for 25 years. He has shown me a diamond he feels is amazing, It is certified by EGL, (noting the
Tolkowsky Cut and Hearts and Arrows), a GEMEX Report and an independent appraisal by a GIA well respected Gemologist. It is an ideal cut, F grade, SI1, round. It's a 1.7 and looks amazing. My hesitation is it is EGL certifeid, not GIA, I had requested that we send it to GIa and he said it's not worth it, basically he would sell it before and that he claims it is a stone he wished he had more of and not to worry about the certificate but that this is not a marginal stone, it is top grade. Any suggestions, he is a freind of a close freind. I also put a deposit on the stone with my credit card yesterday, is it true I have 3 business days to rescend the deposit legally if I change my mind, HELP!!!

Hi Patil22!

If the stone looks amazing to you and it's a great price, I say go for it. Trust your eyes and your heart. The diamond certificate is very important, but don't let it become the MAIN reason you buy a stone. For sure EGL is not as strict as GIA or AGS, so there are chances that the stone might be of lower color or clarity, and if so would that bother you? If it doesn't because the stone performs so well, then trust your instinct.

I just recently purchased a 3 stone ring for my mom's 25th wedding anniversary and the stones were graded by EGL and were also Tolkowsky ideal cut (but not H&A) and the diamonds sparkle like nobody's business! The price tag on it was exceptional too!

So if you think the stone in question if right, then do it. Sending it to GIA will take many many weeks to get back and plus you would have to pay extra to have it certified.

 

[Lorelei]

Here's my take on this. This stone probably is from EGL Israel - the Tolkowsky description suggests this and they are known to be a little more lenient that EGL USA. However it boils down to how much you like the diamond and if you compare the price of this to a GIA graded equivalent diamond you will see a sizable price difference! As has been said many times you are wearing the diamond, not the paper. This is the thing. Do you like this diamond and it's price enough to buy it, or does the EGL cert bother you that much? If the cert bothers you, you could look for an EGL USA certified stone which will still be cheaper than a GIA and the grading may be more accurate - though it is generally understood not as much as GIA. If the GIA cert really matters to you, then you will have to keep looking and pay considerably more for the diamond and bear in mind also that these specs and sizes are very popular and it might take a while.

Maybe it might help you decide if your vendor would let you have an appraisal done by an independant gemologist closeby quickly? That might help swing it for you, with another professional opinion. This diamond may possibly be regraded as a G or H SI2 - would that really matter? Especially if you are getting a great deal anyway? Those are still good specs IMO. If this diamond is beautiful to you and your GF that is the most important thing, bear in mind EGl have been in business a long time, the only way to do that is to grade diamonds which are sold, to many happy customers - myself included!

 

[JohnQuixote]

I read through this thread this morning and was going to give input similar to Lorelei's.

You obviously like the diamond's look and that is most important. For analysis we have several appraisers posting regularly on Pricescope who can look at the diamond and grade it accurately, with very fast turnaround. If you just want authoritative verification of the F/SI1/Ideal status it will not cost as much (certainly not in time) as sending it to a lab. If you want a full workup past what a lab provides they can do this too. It won't be the same level of global pedigree as an 'official' lab document from GIA but it would set your mind at ease, and verify the seller's claim. Perhaps mix this with Wink's suggestion and the seller will cover the cost (or split) of the appraisal if it does not meet the standards he promised.

If this is something that interests you, I would recommend Dave Atlas, Neil Beatty (DenverAppraiser), RockDoc or Richard Sherwood.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 10/15/2005 6:06:50 AM
Author: Lorelei

if you compare the price of this to a GIA graded equivalent diamond you will see a sizable price difference!

... which ''equivalent'' should be a couple of grades down... It would help compare with GIA and AGS graded stones in the same price range. In aying this, I am trusting the straight judgement of those who set the prices in the first place, assuming they know diamonds and grading and have little use for lab reports for anything but showing to customers

Just my 0.2.

 

[HOUMedGal]

I also agree that you''ve got to decide what''s more important to you...the cert, or what your eyes think. Of course, the cert is important and must be considered, but if your eyes love the look of the diamond, and you feel like the price is a good deal, all things considered...just MHO, I''d put more decisional weight into what your eyes are telling you.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/15/2005 10:48:39 AM
Author: valeria101

Date: 10/15/2005 6:06:50 AM
Author: Lorelei

if you compare the price of this to a GIA graded equivalent diamond you will see a sizable price difference!

... which ''equivalent'' should be a couple of grades down..

Yes Patil, that is why they are cheaper, but if you like the diamond and honestly don''t mind if an appraiser grades it lower, which can happen, you can still get a great deal. GIA is considered to be the industry standard. You may however find that an EGL diamond''s grading might be accurate in some, not all cases. Having a GIA cert is no guarantee of having a beautiful diamond, cut mainly dictates that, whoever grades the stone.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/15/2005 11:01:20 AM
Author: HOUMedGal
I also agree that you''ve got to decide what''s more important to you...the cert, or what your eyes think. Of course, the cert is important and must be considered, but if your eyes love the look of the diamond, and you feel like the price is a good deal, all things considered...just MHO, I''d put more decisional weight into what your eyes are telling you.

Yes, you wear the diamond not the cert as I previously mentioned, if it looks good to your eyes it is definitely worth serious consideration, regardless of the cert. Especially if the price is appealing. I would far rather have a lovely EGl diamond than a not so pretty GIA certed, this can happen and the beauty of the diamond which will be worn and treasured for years is what is important, that little burst of joy it gives each time you look at it, while the cert sits there and is only given a thought occasionally. Certififcates DO matter, but not as much as a diamonds beauty or it''s symbolism.

 

[patil22]

I know that the majority of Tolkowsky cuts are EGL-Isreal, some from the US.

Could anyone help me figure out how to tell the difference between Isreal, NY, LA or any other place on the cert...

Any numbers difference or the way the cert looks. My jeweler tells me it is from NY, I want to make sure.

 

[Lorelei]

Patil, EGL USA should say EGL USA on the top of the cert. I do know that Tolkowsky appears often on EGL Israel with some and apparently photoluminesence can appear instead of fluoresence on EGl Antwerp certs. On the EGL website you should be able to type in the certificate number and this will verify it for you, but I don''t really have the info you need regarding where the diamond was actually graded, I ''m sorry. I am sure someone else will be able to help you out on this.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

lets consider the stone?

SI1 is an easy grade - can you see it with your naked eye? BAD
If the clarity does not worry you after seeing it 1st thru a loupe or microscope then you decide if it is ok for you. Ask to see some other SI''s from other labs as a sort of instant grade check.

Do the same test with some other say GIA graded loose stones, or master stones - face down in folded white card very close to a fluoro light tube.

then the paper is useless - its the diamond that you care about.

Re the cut - if you can look thru an ideal-scope then that will tell you a lot - or run the %''s thru HCA (but they will be rounded and %''s are not as good as angles)