chubb insurance
- Thread starter nrvus
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I used JM calculator to figure out the premium for $15000. In brooklyn the premium would be exactly $300 a year. Like I said Chubb would be $600 a year. From reading all the post on PS Chubb seems to have a better policy b/c of the payout if the ring is lost stolen or damaged as well as the appreciation clause in the policy.
dani13
Ideal_Rock
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Find out what type of coverage JM is offering. Chubb''s jewelry policy is looked at as being one of the best/ if not the best out there. It may be worth it to pay the premium for Chubb, especially if the other policies you are looking at "replace like kind," meaning that if your ring is lost or stolen the company would replace it for you. To me, I would rather pay Chubb the extra $300 bucks and have piece of mind regarding the matter, but just my $.02, of course!!!
Mr. Dave Atlas told me that Jeweler''s Mutual is a great insurance agent. He said they are hastle free when it comes to claims. I wouldn''t spend 300 more if I could save that money with the assurance that I could replace my diamond with another of the exact same quality. The question is, if your appraisal is complete enough for a replacement policy so that you can say, "No, see that diamond doesn''t match what I had. My appraisal shows this and this, and I need to meet those criteria for my new stone replacement". That''s what the appraisal serves as, a comprehensive description of your stone.
If you have a good appraisal report, then you shoudl save the 300 bucks and use JM over Chubb
If you have a good appraisal report, then you shoudl save the 300 bucks and use JM over Chubb
aphisiglovessae
Brilliant_Rock
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I just acquired Chubb in Florida and I paid 230 dollars for a year for 11K dollars worth of coverage.
tareyton
Rough_Rock
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Seems like my 210 a year for 17K is a great deal (chubb) compared to others.
As For Mr Bleeker. I personally would spend the extra money because for an E-Ring I personally want to be able to choose the stone for something with so much sentimental value. But that is a personal feeling. So for the post starter that is something else to consider. Would you be happy having someone else say well here you go this is your new E-ring or do you want to pick it out yourself.
As For Mr Bleeker. I personally would spend the extra money because for an E-Ring I personally want to be able to choose the stone for something with so much sentimental value. But that is a personal feeling. So for the post starter that is something else to consider. Would you be happy having someone else say well here you go this is your new E-ring or do you want to pick it out yourself.
EZ
Rough_Rock
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- Jul 16, 2005
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- 90
Personally, I had no problem going with a replacement policy. I have a branded stone with an AGS report, a Sarin scan, and a list of comps. The ring setting is from a major designer who has a track record and should be in buisness for years to come. All of this means that the ring can be replaced to a very close approximation of the original. What my FI and I do not have is a need to upgrade or make money on the loss or destruction of this ring. There is no reason to pay the extra premium (double in your case) just so that we can get a check if something happens to the it. We are not insuring it in order to gain windfall profit, only to make us whole. The company we work with is on par with Jewelers Mutual and I have interviewed enough people who have experience with them to feel comfortable that they know their stuff, are good to work with, and that we are covered.
Also related to premiums: Do you really need to insure it for the Appraised amount? I mean really if you, for example, paid $11,000 for a branded stone with a dealer that has a good inventory and good turnover then chances are that you can buy another one tomorow, of like quality, for $10,000 to $12,000. The setting, unless custom made by a dead or retiring artisan, can also be replaced for near what you paid for it - let''s say $2,500 hypothetically. A reputable insurance company is going to have access to prices as good as any we can get and they do keep up to date on actual market conditions. If you can be made whole for $14,500 that is what they will pay to replace the ring. Why pay premiums for $17,000 when $15,000 would cover you for the year?
(Well, to answer my own question - we could be in a time of inflating prices on gold, diamonds, or even brand names. However, if you keep up on the values of your property you can adjust your insurance as needed.)
Also related to premiums: Do you really need to insure it for the Appraised amount? I mean really if you, for example, paid $11,000 for a branded stone with a dealer that has a good inventory and good turnover then chances are that you can buy another one tomorow, of like quality, for $10,000 to $12,000. The setting, unless custom made by a dead or retiring artisan, can also be replaced for near what you paid for it - let''s say $2,500 hypothetically. A reputable insurance company is going to have access to prices as good as any we can get and they do keep up to date on actual market conditions. If you can be made whole for $14,500 that is what they will pay to replace the ring. Why pay premiums for $17,000 when $15,000 would cover you for the year?
(Well, to answer my own question - we could be in a time of inflating prices on gold, diamonds, or even brand names. However, if you keep up on the values of your property you can adjust your insurance as needed.)
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JM policies, and most replacement type policies that I’m aware of, do not require you to replace at a particular jeweler. You can shop however and wherever you wish. They do provide a list of jewelers in your area who have agreed to work with them but you are not required to shop there. If you choose to shop elsewhere, they will only fund the replacement for the amount that they could have done it at one of their ‘recommended’ jewelers.
The key to getting good coverage is in the appraisal. I’ll give an example:
After great research, you buy this diamond for $11,600 from James Allen.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=53&item=315328
You send it off to RockDoc for the full writeup, photographs, brilliancescope, gemprint the works. $150 plus some shipping.
You then send it off to Dave Atlas to get an Imagem report because you want to cover all your bases. Another $150. (I’m guessing here, I don’t actually know what either Imagem or RockDoc would charge to do a workup on this stone)
You then send it off to Phillip Platinumsmith to build into a masterpiece that knocks your socks off. $2,500, plus shipping, plus some import taxes. (more guessing on the prices here)
In the end, you’re into it for about $15,000, give or take a little bit and you've got an awsome piece.
Now you get it appraised:
“Ladies platinum ring with approx. 1.55ct G, SI-1 round diamond mounted in a platinum ring weighing 11.2 grams. Size 6. - $28,000.00”
You walk out feeling like you got a great deal (which you did by the way) and go away happy. You buy an insurance policy and get on with your life. Fast forward a year, you lose the thing and file a claim. Here’s what happens:
The insurance company will look at the description that you supplied when you bound the policy and will contact their jewelers to see what they can do to replace that stone. Just as an example, they find this one for $7,300 at JewelryZone.
http://www.jewelryzone.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=1398&diamond=792387
An 11.2 gram generic mounting will cost them about $800 plus another hundred to set and size it and a bit of markup for the jeweler for their involvement. All in all, they can ‘replace’ the piece for under $10k with one that meets the description that YOU supplied. This is one of the reasons that they want you to hire the appraiser instead of doing it themselves. You go nuts because you feel you’re being cheated and insist that you want to replace it using the same approach you took in the first place. This is fine with them but they will only pay $10k of the cost because that’s how much it will cost them to replace it with the agreed method.
Now look at the same scenario where you get a decent appraisal. You include all of the paperwork that came with the diamond, you include everything from the doc and everything from Dave. You include Phillip’s contact information, you include detailed photos of the finished piece, measurements, everything. Rich Sherwood charges you $150 and does his usual detailed job. Replacement valuation $20,000.
Analysis:
In the first scenario you’re paying 1.5%/year of $28,000 for a policy that will pay $10k in the case of a total loss. (note: I made up the 1.5% number. This will vary with your location, claims history and other variables that have nothing to do with the piece. Locally for me it’s 1.2% but I’m in a cheap market. 1.5% seems pretty typical). Total premium $420/year.
In the second version you’re paying 1.4%/year of $20,000 for a policy that will pay $18k in the case of a total loss. (note: You’re getting a discount for the gemprint that the first appraiser didn’t bother to mention). Total premium $280/year.
In the third version you are paying 3% of $15,000 for a policy that will pay $16k in the case of a total loss. (again, this 3% number will vary. That’s what it typically costs in my neighborhood but others pay different rates). Total premium $450/year.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
The key to getting good coverage is in the appraisal. I’ll give an example:
After great research, you buy this diamond for $11,600 from James Allen.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=53&item=315328
You send it off to RockDoc for the full writeup, photographs, brilliancescope, gemprint the works. $150 plus some shipping.
You then send it off to Dave Atlas to get an Imagem report because you want to cover all your bases. Another $150. (I’m guessing here, I don’t actually know what either Imagem or RockDoc would charge to do a workup on this stone)
You then send it off to Phillip Platinumsmith to build into a masterpiece that knocks your socks off. $2,500, plus shipping, plus some import taxes. (more guessing on the prices here)
In the end, you’re into it for about $15,000, give or take a little bit and you've got an awsome piece.
Now you get it appraised:
“Ladies platinum ring with approx. 1.55ct G, SI-1 round diamond mounted in a platinum ring weighing 11.2 grams. Size 6. - $28,000.00”
You walk out feeling like you got a great deal (which you did by the way) and go away happy. You buy an insurance policy and get on with your life. Fast forward a year, you lose the thing and file a claim. Here’s what happens:
The insurance company will look at the description that you supplied when you bound the policy and will contact their jewelers to see what they can do to replace that stone. Just as an example, they find this one for $7,300 at JewelryZone.
http://www.jewelryzone.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=1398&diamond=792387
An 11.2 gram generic mounting will cost them about $800 plus another hundred to set and size it and a bit of markup for the jeweler for their involvement. All in all, they can ‘replace’ the piece for under $10k with one that meets the description that YOU supplied. This is one of the reasons that they want you to hire the appraiser instead of doing it themselves. You go nuts because you feel you’re being cheated and insist that you want to replace it using the same approach you took in the first place. This is fine with them but they will only pay $10k of the cost because that’s how much it will cost them to replace it with the agreed method.
Now look at the same scenario where you get a decent appraisal. You include all of the paperwork that came with the diamond, you include everything from the doc and everything from Dave. You include Phillip’s contact information, you include detailed photos of the finished piece, measurements, everything. Rich Sherwood charges you $150 and does his usual detailed job. Replacement valuation $20,000.
When you file the claim, you can correctly point out that the suggested replacement stone, although beautiful, does not meet your original specs. Why not? One of your specs is that it must be a JamesAllen signature series stone with an AGS report. Grumble grumble grumble. Ok, they get you an acceptable JA stone. Now you point out that one of your specs includes a stone with a BS report and a workup from both the Doc and Dave indicating acceptable performance. Jim doesn’t supply those with his stones. Fine, they buy you all of that. Then you point out that the missing piece was a Phillip Schmidt original and that their substitute craftsman, who may be excellent, is not Phillip and that for you to accept the replacement it must have Phillip’s mark inside. They do the math and figure out that this is all going to cost them $18k (prices are up to $16k because of inflation and another $2K for the replacement jeweler’s markup) to replace. You still don’t like the jeweler they suggest and prefer to do it yourself. They will fund you for $18k to shop however you choose.
Now look at the same scenario where you buy a defined value policy. You present your original paperwork to the company and buy a policy for $15,000 based on your actual cost. When you file, they cut you a check for $15k and you spend it however you choose. In the case of Chubb, they will even include an inflation adjustment so the payment in our story will be $16k.
Analysis:
In the first scenario you’re paying 1.5%/year of $28,000 for a policy that will pay $10k in the case of a total loss. (note: I made up the 1.5% number. This will vary with your location, claims history and other variables that have nothing to do with the piece. Locally for me it’s 1.2% but I’m in a cheap market. 1.5% seems pretty typical). Total premium $420/year.
In the second version you’re paying 1.4%/year of $20,000 for a policy that will pay $18k in the case of a total loss. (note: You’re getting a discount for the gemprint that the first appraiser didn’t bother to mention). Total premium $280/year.
In the third version you are paying 3% of $15,000 for a policy that will pay $16k in the case of a total loss. (again, this 3% number will vary. That’s what it typically costs in my neighborhood but others pay different rates). Total premium $450/year.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2004
- Messages
- 9,150
Noobie,
I don''t think JM covers unscheduled jewelery at all. The way the homeowners companies do it is that you present to them watever evidence you have that the item existed and whatever details you know about it and they try to figure out what it will cost them to replace it. They then either get a new item at that cost, pay you that amount of money or contribute that amount towards the purchase of something else entirely.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
I don''t think JM covers unscheduled jewelery at all. The way the homeowners companies do it is that you present to them watever evidence you have that the item existed and whatever details you know about it and they try to figure out what it will cost them to replace it. They then either get a new item at that cost, pay you that amount of money or contribute that amount towards the purchase of something else entirely.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
There are a couple more cosiderations...
First question is where is the ring going to be? If you''re in Brooklyn and the ring will be worn there too, then because of the high crime rate there, Brooklyn is one of the most costly places to insure an item. Sometimes, after people become engaged they also move into a different location. If that''s a possibility, talk to the Chubb agent to see what areas don''t have as high a crime ratio.
So if you fiance lives in a different area, that has a lower crime rate, the premium might be drastically less.
The second consideration for you to make, is that Chubb has the 50 % more part of their policy, while a replacement policy will never pay more than the insured amount.
Thirdly, Chubb doesn''t require an appraisal for items insured for under $ 50K. Generally, Chubb will bind coverage with a copy of the lab reort, a description of the riing, and some photos. You also get the option to increase the coverage at YOUR choice each year.
Insuring an item is about risk and the chances of damage or loss and your financial ability to possibly take on some of the risk yourself.
You need to consider if you would be able to make the purchase again if there was a loss, without "feeling" the "pain" in your wallet. If so, you might consider banking the $ 600 a year and insuring it yourself. Of course you need to consider how it will be treated. If it is cared for well, your risk is lower. You could also insure it for less and take on a portion of the risk, if you think your chances of having a claim are minimal.
Hope this helps.
Rockdoc
First question is where is the ring going to be? If you''re in Brooklyn and the ring will be worn there too, then because of the high crime rate there, Brooklyn is one of the most costly places to insure an item. Sometimes, after people become engaged they also move into a different location. If that''s a possibility, talk to the Chubb agent to see what areas don''t have as high a crime ratio.
So if you fiance lives in a different area, that has a lower crime rate, the premium might be drastically less.
The second consideration for you to make, is that Chubb has the 50 % more part of their policy, while a replacement policy will never pay more than the insured amount.
Thirdly, Chubb doesn''t require an appraisal for items insured for under $ 50K. Generally, Chubb will bind coverage with a copy of the lab reort, a description of the riing, and some photos. You also get the option to increase the coverage at YOUR choice each year.
Insuring an item is about risk and the chances of damage or loss and your financial ability to possibly take on some of the risk yourself.
You need to consider if you would be able to make the purchase again if there was a loss, without "feeling" the "pain" in your wallet. If so, you might consider banking the $ 600 a year and insuring it yourself. Of course you need to consider how it will be treated. If it is cared for well, your risk is lower. You could also insure it for less and take on a portion of the risk, if you think your chances of having a claim are minimal.
Hope this helps.
Rockdoc
noobie
Brilliant_Rock
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- Mar 3, 2004
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- 1,318
I saw it on their website yesterday Neil. This thread actually made me look. You can buy up to $5,000 with a $100 deductable. My homeowners won''t cover anything over a $1000 of unscheduled.
A secondary question. If I have $5000 of unscheduled and $1000 through homeowners, can I make a claim on both if the loss exceeds $6,000?
RE: Getting paid by two companies for a loss. In the event of a claim this could become a real nightmare for you. YOU NEED TO READ EACH POLICY. Most insurance policies sort of exclude coverage if someone else is insuring the same coverage.
A consideration of believing your covered for every thing that could happen for unschedued items is a myth. On unscheduled items most policies exclude coverage for an assortment of different occurences. One example that most disclaim is MYSTERIOUS DISSAPPEARANCE. Basically, this means that if there isn''t EVIDENCE of a theft ( door broken in ) etc.they will not cover your loss. If you take off the jewelry in a public place and leave it in the washroom and go back and its gone, you aren''t covered.
Most unscheduled coverage is NOT an ALL RISK type policy. Even some that are replacement types are not the all risk type which covers you for just about anything that could happen. You need to read the policy and determine if it is an all risk type coverage. Many insurance companies have different types of insurance polcies available, so ask your agent what your options are.
One of the more "interesting" parts of an insurance policy is written under the "subject" of What if you disagree with the amount we will pay for your claim". Read very carefully what the REQUIRED actions are under this portion. Some policies have some very cumbersome and time consuing requirements. As the insurance policy is a contract, the insurance company will follow what is stated on it to the LETTER.
The really unfortunate happening with this is that few agents will actually let you read the policy before buying the insurance coverage. You don''t get the chance to review the terms and conditions of the specific policy until you buy the coverage, and most people don''t ever read the policy until they have a claim, and discover all the "cute" little terms of the contract. Lots of little surprises with that, I think you''ll find.
I would suggest that ANYONE, know the limits of their coverage with insurance and not just for jewelry coverage. This goes for any type of insurance policy.
Rockdoc
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- Jul 21, 2004
- Messages
- 9,150
The company's website s a much better source than me. It may be worth a call to ask them how they handle claims on this sort of policy. I'm with Rockdoc, the rules for unscheduled policies are a minefield. Read the policy carefully.
Probably not but this will depend on the details of both insurance policies. This is common with health insurance and various kinds of liability claims but I've never heard of anyone doing it with a personal property policies. I suppose it's possible.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
thebanjodog
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2005
- Messages
- 123
i do not live in nyc but i do have a chubb policy. before they would quote me a price they needed a complete address. street, city, state, zip. i think as was mentioned before different parts of the city may have different risk factors. just a thought. banjo
claimsjeff
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2004
- Messages
- 50
1. Yes you choose the jeweler(we will work with your jeweler of choice) to replace your ring. No they do not have to be insured with us.
2. Rates may differ within the same state or different counties due to loss exposure and insurers change their rates(which we have just done) for various reasons.
3. Yes we insure unscheduled personal property and if you have a specific question on how this works please do not hesitate to contact us.
If you have any other questions, that I can answer please let me know. Thanks
Jeff A. Mills, SCLA
VP Claims
Jewelers Mutual Insurance Co.
2. Rates may differ within the same state or different counties due to loss exposure and insurers change their rates(which we have just done) for various reasons.
3. Yes we insure unscheduled personal property and if you have a specific question on how this works please do not hesitate to contact us.
If you have any other questions, that I can answer please let me know. Thanks
Jeff A. Mills, SCLA
VP Claims
Jewelers Mutual Insurance Co.
Ask your insurance agent about a blanket policy. I have one for theft only for up to 20k. My insuance is with Allstate.
As an aside, I have had nothing but trouble dealing with Chubb. I see no value in paying an extra $300.00 a year for their insurance. As long as you have a very detailed appraisal of your item, you will be made whole with a replacement policy.
noobie
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2004
- Messages
- 1,318
As update for anyone that is interested, I contacted JM about the insurance. Basically JM works farily similar to any good homeowners policy. The unscheduled coverage is only for theft and has a limit of $1000 for each piece. All in all pretty useless imo. At a $1000 limit, I''m self insuring, especially at those premiums. I think that my homeowners has better limits.
The scheduled jewelry policy offers a 10% reduction in premiums if you chose a $250 deductable and an additional 5% if you have a monitored security system. The rates are not bad, but my State Farm rates are better, so not much incentive for me to do anything.
If I contact Chubb, I post the results.
The scheduled jewelry policy offers a 10% reduction in premiums if you chose a $250 deductable and an additional 5% if you have a monitored security system. The rates are not bad, but my State Farm rates are better, so not much incentive for me to do anything.
If I contact Chubb, I post the results.
My blanket 20k coverage isn''t that expensive relative to piece of mind - so you may want to ask if State Farm has this. If I recall correctly, it was an odd coverage that my agent had to look for. O.k. - I looked on my statement - can''t find exactly how much it costs. But, it''s for 25k per occurance, $5,000 per item coverage w/ a 1k deduct (total for any theft). I don''t remember balking at the cost of this.
Another thing that has helped keep my rate down is "vaulted" rates. I keep the items I wear everyday upfront on my schedule. I keep "special" items vaulted in a Safe Deposit box for pennies in price for this coverage. When I remove something to wear, I call my agent and he moves it to regular coverage. When I return it, it goes back to vault rate. It''s not something they like to publicize as it generates paper work; but it''s available if you can keep up with it. This is good for bracelets, special necklaces, etc. It won''t work for e-ring/wedding ring - unless you rarely wear them.
Also, some insurers will only cover scheduled items if stolen. You need to check (I think the one that is offered to military & ex military is one of them).
noobie
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2004
- Messages
- 1,318
Yes F&I, I think State Farm has something like this as well and it only covers theft. I was more interested in total coverage since I think damage or loss is more likely in my situation. It has similar deductables and the premium is not that high.
Well for anyone interested, I found Chubb insurance for the same rate as JM, about $1.25 per hundred. At that rate, I think Chubb is a better deal since the payout and will offer blanket coverage. Chubb wants to write a homeowners as well and will look at underwriting risk before granting the policy. I suspect they check stability, assets, claim history and credit rating, but I''m just guessing. Chubb has a safety deposit box rate thats about 25% of the normal rate. You need to call whenever you take it out and put it back. Good option for some, like F&I, but not convenient for me.
It''s a moot point since my State Farm insurance is about half of JM and Chubb. Basically I can schedule twice as much stuff for the same cost. For me a no brainer to schedule with SF.
Well for anyone interested, I found Chubb insurance for the same rate as JM, about $1.25 per hundred. At that rate, I think Chubb is a better deal since the payout and will offer blanket coverage. Chubb wants to write a homeowners as well and will look at underwriting risk before granting the policy. I suspect they check stability, assets, claim history and credit rating, but I''m just guessing. Chubb has a safety deposit box rate thats about 25% of the normal rate. You need to call whenever you take it out and put it back. Good option for some, like F&I, but not convenient for me.
It''s a moot point since my State Farm insurance is about half of JM and Chubb. Basically I can schedule twice as much stuff for the same cost. For me a no brainer to schedule with SF.
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