It's already starting.... Abortion Ban

[Matata]

Where's Matata? I always enjoy her input on these threads!

I am burned out. When I can predict the answers of certain posters and they respond as predicted (because their responses to any issue are always the same), I prefer to just read and in anonymity. There is a certain level of stupid that may occur which may prompt me to post but the bar has been set so low, it's difficult to muster the energy to respond.

Luv you Dee*Jay. Hope to see you again at an annual PS get together.

Wow. So is someone who is against abortion is stupid? I wish someone would have told me before. I'd have saved a bundle on education costs.

I will send you a check for $1,000,000 if you can find anywhere in this thread where I have explicitly stated that I think someone is stupid if they are against abortion.

 

[redwood66]

Where's Matata? I always enjoy her input on these threads!

I am burned out. When I can predict the answers of certain posters and they respond as predicted (because their responses to any issue are always the same), I prefer to just read and in anonymity. There is a certain level of stupid that may occur which may prompt me to post but the bar has been set so low, it's difficult to muster the energy to respond.

Luv you Dee*Jay. Hope to see you again at an annual PS get together.

Wow. So is someone who is against abortion is stupid? I wish someone would have told me before. I'd have saved a bundle on education costs.

I will send you a check for $1,000,000 if you can find anywhere in this thread where I have explicitly stated that I think someone is stupid if they are against abortion.

So who or what exactly were you referring to in your quote as a certain level of stupid that caused you to post or make that announcement?

ETA - you could have said a certain level of disagreement but instead you chose the word stupid.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Matata, sincere apologies it's my fault you got dragged into this one. My intentions were good -- I always enjoy your commentary! But now things have taken a turn for the... well... stupid, and you're caught in the middle. Again, very sorry. If you want to ignore what this has turned into -- and the way it's been turned on you -- I'm sure many of us would fully understand any further lack of response on your part.

As for seeing each other at the next GTG, a little hundred degree Vegas weather isn't sounding so bad right now with our midwestern below zero windchill!

 

[missy]

This whole issue is so upsetting and frustrating to think that all these decades and decades later we are still fighting for the right for control of and over our own bodies. Ludicrous and aggravating and makes me go GRRRRRRRRRRRR.


To all you pro-lifers who are reading-

Who are you to determine what we can and cannot do with our own bodies. Who are you to dicate that.
Be against abortion for yourself OK and leave each woman alone to determine what is best for her and her unique circumstance.

For those of us who are pro-choice you don't hear us saying you cannot have your baby do you? You don't hear us saying you have to have an abortion for whatever reason. No, we let you make the right choice for you.

Why can't you do the same for us? Why do you have to be in our personal lives and personal business? Why are you so damn nosy and self righteous? Who made you ruler of all and all that we do. Who made you in charge? Why should anybody but the individual be in charge of our own bodies????

Pro CHOICE. How can any person be against choice for the individual to make for themselves?!!!!!!!

 

[redwood66]

missy I am sorry this has made you so upset. I have already said that this is not at the top of MY list of issues that are important. The country is divided nearly in half on the issue of abortion, but many conservatives would say that choice is fine but there needs to be some rules. Those rules do exist for the most part. I don't care what you do with your body, that is up to you. I also said that this law will probably not be signed or if it is, it will be challenged.

 

[missy]

missy I am sorry this has made you so upset. I have already said that this is not at the top of MY list of issues that are important. The country is divided nearly in half on the issue of abortion, but many conservatives would say that choice is fine but there needs to be some rules. Those rules do exist for the most part. I don't care what you do with your body, that is up to you. I also said that this law will probably not be signed or if it is, it will be challenged.

Redwood, I wasn't directing my post to you. Just a general post sharing my thoughts on this topic. Yes it is an upsetting topic for so many reasons and for what it represents. As women we are still not considered equal where it counts. Our rights as women are horribly infringed upon and we are not treated equal in many ways independent of this particular (but critical) issue.

It is kind of you to say you are sorry but it isn't necessary. Rather, I wish all who have socially conservative beliefs would rethink those issues as to be socially conservative is to (quite often) behave in an inhumane way IMO.

Just a few examples. I have no wish to offend those of you who are socially conservative but would like to understand why you think the way you do. This is independent of those who are financially conservative. I am speaking just of social issues right now.

Why is it OK for the socially conservative person to dictate who can and cannot get married? Why do 2 people loving each other bother you (the general you) so much? Who made you the boss of who can and cannot get married. Not hurting you or your right to get married so why are you so self righteous about these issues???? An issue so basic (wanting to marry the one you love regardless of gender, gender identity etc and sharing the rights all married couples do) and fundamental to happiness and health.

Social conservatives against Embryonic stem cell research. Which could help so many people and save so many lives. Why would you prevent helping so many people suffering (and who will suffer) from diseases that can be cured if only we could use all the resources at our disposal to make those cures come true.

Pro gun rights. OMG we are no longer in the kind of world where civilians should be carrying weapons especially ones that can fire huge amounts of rounds at a time. It is dangerous and has been shown time and time again that countries who are the most pro gun rights are the ones who experience the most violence and death from guns.

Pro-life which is really against women and their right to choose what is best for them, their families and their basic human rights to do with their bodies as they feel is best.

I know I am not explaining as well as the PSers who possess much better communication skills than I do but hopefully I am making sense and you get what I am saying. So again no need to apologize for upsetting me because what I really want is for those of you who believe in these conservative issues to explore why you believe the way you do. Why don't you think each individual is equal? Why does religion rule over common sense? So many issues but not going to keep going on and just wanted to understand really why the social conservatives think the way they do.

Of course it is terrifying that almost half the world/country (not sure of the exact statistics but suffice it to say it is too many who don't believe in evolution) doesn't believe in evolution. Sort of hard to argue with people who don't believe in some sort of evolutionary process. And hard to argue with those who believe in religion over common sense but I am willing to listen if you are willing to share.

Some issues are not black and white but the ones I listed above are IMO. The right to marry who we want to (as long as they at age of consent); the right to decide if a pregnancy is the right decision for us; the right to find cures through embryonic stem cell research that could alleviate suffering of countless individuals now and in the future; and the right of civilians who want to be protected from those who carry weapons that can cause mass death and destruction). How can religion rule over science. Common sense and scientific data taking a back seat to the fervently religious. And so many more issues.

 

[redwood66]

Missy I am going to address these issues from my POV. I appreciate you conversing in a respectful way and none of the ire you might read is directed toward you.

Why is it OK for the socially conservative person to dictate who can and cannot get married? Why do 2 people loving each other bother you (the general you) so much? Who made you the boss of who can and cannot get married. Not hurting you or your right to get married so why are you so self righteous about these issues???? An issue so basic (wanting to marry the one you love regardless of gender, gender identity etc and sharing the rights all married couples do) and fundamental to happiness and health.

I do not care who anyone marries. Many people don't. There were votes in many states before the SCOTUS decision and California and Oregon even voted down a marriage equality measure. But it was fought and SCOTUS decided against the people of those states to make it legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_constitutional_amendments_banning_same-sex_unions_by_type

But what makes me angry is people who shame and try to destroy someone because they do not agree with it. If one is keeping to himself and not bothering anyone, leave them the hell alone. Most churches are against homosexuality and this has not changed just in the past decade, it has been that way for thousands of years. Activists like this a$$hole at buzzfeed trying to get the Fixer Upper couple in the news. It backfired thankfully because people are tired of the activists who do this kind of crap. https://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/chip-and-joanna-gaines-church-same-sex-marriage?utm_term=.jaPwyLB00#.rlZK9Z4AA

Tammy Bruce is a lesbian and she gets it. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/7/the-end-of-liberal-bullying-over-gay-marriage/


Social conservatives against Embryonic stem cell research. Which could help so many people and save so many lives. Why would you prevent helping so many people suffering (and who will suffer) from diseases that can be cured if only we could use all the resources at our disposal to make those cures come true.

This is a bit harder to discuss because I get the reasons on one hand for cures, but I can see corporations or scientists taking it too far. Might sound silly but Jurassic Park is the idea or cloning of people, etc. It is not from a point of people playing God for me.



Pro gun rights. OMG we are no longer in the kind of world where civilians should be carrying weapons especially ones that can fire huge amounts of rounds at a time. It is dangerous and has been shown time and time again that countries who are the most pro gun rights are the ones who experience the most violence and death from guns.

This is where I have to tell you that you are naive about the kind of world we live in. You know that I come by this from decades of experience on what is actually out there. It may not happen in your neighborhood but don't tell that to the people of some of the neighborhoods in Chicago or elsewhere. And those criminals will have guns even if you melted "every" gun in America. I am for a bit stricter background checks but no bans because they do not work. They just hinder law abiding citizens. If you do not want a weapon then do not buy one but do not tell me I can't have one to protect myself and my family. Sh*t happens anywhere at any time.

Stats on murders in Chicago and New York. If you click on the Timeline button you can see them month by month and the actual people with info.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016-chicago-murders/explore-data


ETA - Eons ago when I was 19 a guy pulled out of a gas station right in front of me. It was raining and I had to swerve to keep from hitting him. When I passed him I flipped him off - because I was a stupid 19 year old. He followed me all the way to my street where I just pulled over to let him pass. He pulled up next to me and pointed a gun at me. Said some obscenities and drove off. I lived in a decent neighborhood.

 

[AdaBeta27]

Well, the unconstitutional and ludicrous "heartbeat bill" was vetoed. I said words to that effect on Facebook, and one of my relatives advised me to NEVER let people know I am pro-choice. That's how bad it is here, folks. The Supreme Court decided this issue 40 years ago, and being pro-choice is still considered more despicable than actually being convicted of some felony crime(s).