Pediatricians are 'firing' anti-vax parents

[YadaYadaYada]

House_Cat, I found this article to be rather informative, even if you ignore the theory that they are marketing Gardasil to boys to compensate for the lower uptake among girls, there is a good list of information to consider and might be what you are looking for.

https://healthimpactnews.com/2015/gardasil-vaccine-promoted-to-12-year-old-boys-to-double-the-market/

 

[KaeKae]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

This is interesting to me.

Is there a way to know if your child has those genetic markers before vaccinating?

I don't think there is a simple answer, unfortunately, or we would all do it (well those of us who actually believe that averse reactions and injury exist). I was just reading the other day about MTHFR gene mutations and that it can cause difficulty ridding the body of toxins, so that might be connected to danger with too many vaccines at a time as well as autism. There are others, too, I am just not all that knowledgable about them to present it here.

This is an off topic slightly, but my child with Asperger's also is diagnosed with bipolar and you posted on another thread about anti-depressants being dangerous with mood stabilizers. I asked you if you had more info on that, and I don't know if you ever saw my question or not. That is very concerning to me. However, let's just say I have low trust in the pharmaceutical industry, period.

Yes, I saw it. I responded and said I would reply to you on the "mental illness when enough is enough thread." I didn't want to threadjack the anxiety thread. I wrote you a response.


I have always had a gut feeling that we are not getting all of the information about this vaccination subject. I just don't know where to get sound information vaccination safety and injury. People tend to be very emotional on both sides and it feels as though true information might be buried...

My 11 year old is due for Gardasil. He wants it because he has been told that it will prevent many types of cancer. I feel very, very apprehensive about this vaccine.

When you look up Gardasil injury, the information is very cloudy. It shows that there are only "officially" a few hundred injuries but when you talk to the general public, you hear many mothers talk about their children experience injuries as if it is commonplace. How is this so? Are these injuries just "unproven?"

How am I to make an informed decision?

First, my understanding is that Gardasil is claimed to protect against just four STRAINS of HPV, not MANY types of cancer. It's understandable that an 11 year old would possibly get false information, but wow, that's way, way off.

In my daughter's case, her doctor refused to consider that her seizures and migraines are caused by the vaccine. I have no doubt they reported none of it to the CDC.

 

[Ellen]

I don't have children but have never understood giving multiple vaccines at the same time. It makes no sense to me. If your child has a reaction you don't even know which vaccine is the problem when given more than one at a time. I wouldn't let the vet give my dog multiple vaccines. I spaced them out one per month.

+1


And I want to say how sorry I am for all those who feel (or know) that their children were injured by a vaccination. I wonder about my own to a degree.....but of course there will never be a way to prove it.

 

[Calliecake]

If I'm not mistaken the vaccine is to prevent cervical cancer. I believe once you have had HPV you are at a much greater risk of getting cervical cancer. If you are protected from HPV your risk of cervical cancer decreases dramatically. The reason they want the vaccine administered at such a young age is they want everyone protected before they have sex.

 

[momhappy]

With all of the required vaccines, do you have any idea how many doctor's appointments it would require to give every child one vaccine at a time??? Multiple vaccines are done mostly for convenience. Pediatrician's offices probably couldn't even accommodate the number of appointments if every child had 1 vaccine at a time, parents might not have time to bring a child in for every single shot, and it would be traumatic for kids if they had to go in over and over again for every shot. In most circumstances, vaccines do not cause injury/harm, so multiple vaccines are typically not an issue.

 

[momhappy]

If I'm not mistaken the vaccine is to prevent cervical cancer. I believe once you have had HPV you are much greater risk of getting cervical cancer.

The vaccine is for HPV, which can lead to cervical and colorectal cancers (in males and females).
The vaccine is effective if it is given before exposure to HPV, which is why it is recommended at ages 11/12, which is thought to be an age where no sexual contact has yet taken place (and therefore, no exposure to HPV).
I have not gotten it yet for my children and I haven't decided if I will. My pediatrician recommended it (after I asked) and they were fine with me waiting. From the research I've done, there does seem to be a higher incidence of side effects and it just hasn't been around long enough for me to feel comfortable with it. I haven't ruled it out yet though and I still plan to research it more.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

My SIL has HPV and has had several abnormal PAPS aka super high risk for cervical cancer, when the vaccine came out I was 25, I got the vaccine.

I completely understand people who have actually had (or their children) severe reactions to vaccines getting MEDICAL exemptions. Those are the people who I want to protect by being fully immunized as well as my infant son and family. That's it though. I'm grateful to be in NY where you cannot be in public school without vaccinations (or medical exemption).

FWIW I do not easily get immunity from vaccines. I actually contracted whooping cough at 22. After that I had all of my titers checked (which everyone should do periodically). I was NOT immune to measles or rubella, I had the whole MMR series re-done and will stay on top of it for the rest of my life. It's a tricky business but for me I take the risk head on (even for my son) to protect the greater good.

 

[Calliecake]

With all of the required vaccines, do you have any idea how many doctor's appointments it would require to give every child one vaccine at a time??? Multiple vaccines are done mostly for convenience. Pediatrician's offices probably couldn't even accommodate the number of appointments if every child had 1 vaccine at a time, parents might not have time to bring a child in for every single shot, and it would be traumatic for kids if they had to go in over and over again for every shot. In most circumstances, vaccines do not cause injury/harm, so multiple vaccines are typically not an issue.

A few extra doctor appointments is well worth the inconvienece in my opinion. If a child had a reaction at least you would know what they were having the reaction to. I felt it was worth the extra appointments for my dog. You hear all the time about people having drug interactions when more than one drug is given at the same time. Why would it be so hard believe that the same thing could happen when 3 vaccines are administered at the same time?

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

FWIW anyone who's curious about MTHFR I am positive for a few of the genes, there is autoimmune disease in my direct family (my Mother has Crohn's) and I never had any issues with my own vaccinations (besides them wearing off) and neither has my son.

You can find out on your own by doing the genetic testing through 23 & me and then downloading your genetic code onto https://promethease.com/. I did it and it was well worth it.

I looked into this originally because my son was born with a pretty severe tongue and lip tie which can be a result of the mother having MTHFR and the absorption (or lack of) folic acid. Worth checking out if you really want to know but also note I had zero reactions and neither did my son. Not even a fever. It's all a crapshoot (with the exception of severe reactions).

 

[Calliecake]

With all of the required vaccines, do you have any idea how many doctor's appointments it would require to give every child one vaccine at a time??? Multiple vaccines are done mostly for convenience. Pediatrician's offices probably couldn't even accommodate the number of appointments if every child had 1 vaccine at a time, parents might not have time to bring a child in for every single shot, and it would be traumatic for kids if they had to go in over and over again for every shot. In most circumstances, vaccines do not cause injury/harm, so multiple vaccines are typically not an issue.

A few extra doctor appointments is well worth the inconvienece in my opinion. If a child had a reaction at least you would know what they were having the reaction to. I felt it was worth the extra appointments for my dog. You hear all the time about people having drug interactions when more than one drug is given at the same time. Why would it be so hard believe that the same thing could happen when 3 vaccines are administered at the same time?

 

[momhappy]

^I don't think we are talking about an "inconvenience" here. When you think of the millions of children getting vaccines each year, I don't think pediatrician's offices could physically handle all of those appointments (not enough staff, etc.). Many pediatricians already have a wait just for normal appointments, so I don't believe it would even be possible to see every child one vaccine at a time (even if the vaccines were done as nurse visits).
I divided up a couple of the bigger vaccines, but for the most part, the multiple vaccine is standard practice. It happens all day, every day all across the country and like I said, most vaccinations turn out just fine

 

[Calliecake]

^I don't think we are talking about an "inconvenience" here. When you think of the millions of children getting vaccines each year, I don't think pediatrician's offices could physically handle all of those appointments. Many pediatricians already have a wait just for normal appointments, so I don't believe it would even be possible to see every child one vaccine at a time (even if the vaccines were done as nurse visits).

I'm sure most people tell the doctor to go ahead and give the vaccines because they feel the risk is low. I'm just stating that I would make them give them the vaccines separately and I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue. Even if the risk is low my feeling is if something awful happens you aren't going to get a do over. I would rather take the extra precautions. I do realize even then you are not guaranteed of not having an issue.

 

[momhappy]

^Yes, I understand what you're saying and I don't have an issue with that (like I said, I chose to have some done separately for peace of mind). You have to keep in mind though, this isn't just a few extra appointments. The average kid has over 20 doses of vaccines by the time they reach middle school. If every kid went in for an appointment for each dose, you can see how quickly the appointments would add up.

 

[House Cat]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

This is interesting to me.

Is there a way to know if your child has those genetic markers before vaccinating?

I don't think there is a simple answer, unfortunately, or we would all do it (well those of us who actually believe that averse reactions and injury exist). I was just reading the other day about MTHFR gene mutations and that it can cause difficulty ridding the body of toxins, so that might be connected to danger with too many vaccines at a time as well as autism. There are others, too, I am just not all that knowledgable about them to present it here.

This is an off topic slightly, but my child with Asperger's also is diagnosed with bipolar and you posted on another thread about anti-depressants being dangerous with mood stabilizers. I asked you if you had more info on that, and I don't know if you ever saw my question or not. That is very concerning to me. However, let's just say I have low trust in the pharmaceutical industry, period.

Yes, I saw it. I responded and said I would reply to you on the "mental illness when enough is enough thread." I didn't want to threadjack the anxiety thread. I wrote you a response.


I have always had a gut feeling that we are not getting all of the information about this vaccination subject. I just don't know where to get sound information vaccination safety and injury. People tend to be very emotional on both sides and it feels as though true information might be buried...

My 11 year old is due for Gardasil. He wants it because he has been told that it will prevent many types of cancer. I feel very, very apprehensive about this vaccine.

When you look up Gardasil injury, the information is very cloudy. It shows that there are only "officially" a few hundred injuries but when you talk to the general public, you hear many mothers talk about their children experience injuries as if it is commonplace. How is this so? Are these injuries just "unproven?"

How am I to make an informed decision?

First, my understanding is that Gardasil is claimed to protect against just four STRAINS of HPV, not MANY types of cancer. It's understandable that an 11 year old would possibly get false information, but wow, that's way, way off.

In my daughter's case, her doctor refused to consider that her seizures and migraines are caused by the vaccine. I have no doubt they reported none of it to the CDC.

Actually, we were told that Gardisil will prevent oral, anal, and some types of penile cancer caused by HPV. We were told this by my son's pediatrician.

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skep...mends-new-gardasil-cancer-prevention-vaccine/

 

[Dancing Fire]

^Yes, I understand what you're saying and I don't have an issue with that (like I said, I chose to have some done separately for peace of mind). You have to keep in mind though, this isn't just a few extra appointments. The average kid has over 20 doses of vaccines by the time they reach middle school. If every kid went in for an appointment for each dose, you can see how quickly the appointments would add up.

OUCH!! I feel sorry for kids these days. Our daughters only needed like 5 vaccines before starting kindergarten in the early 90's.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

FWIW anyone who's curious about MTHFR I am positive for a few of the genes, there is autoimmune disease in my direct family (my Mother has Crohn's) and I never had any issues with my own vaccinations (besides them wearing off) and neither has my son.

You can find out on your own by doing the genetic testing through 23 & me and then downloading your genetic code onto https://promethease.com/. I did it and it was well worth it.

I looked into this originally because my son was born with a pretty severe tongue and lip tie which can be a result of the mother having MTHFR and the absorption (or lack of) folic acid. Worth checking out if you really want to know but also note I had zero reactions and neither did my son. Not even a fever. It's all a crapshoot (with the exception of severe reactions).

Sort of off-topic, but how were you able to interpret your Promethease data? I've done 23andMe and downloaded to Promethease, but had NO clue what I was looking at or how to interpret it. I *think* I did see that I have a slightly higher risk for breast cancer, which was important because my twin actually has breast cancer. She took my Promethease data to her genetic counselors and they couldn't read it either, which makes me think I'd done something wrong.

 

[momhappy]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

This is interesting to me.

Is there a way to know if your child has those genetic markers before vaccinating?

I don't think there is a simple answer, unfortunately, or we would all do it (well those of us who actually believe that averse reactions and injury exist). I was just reading the other day about MTHFR gene mutations and that it can cause difficulty ridding the body of toxins, so that might be connected to danger with too many vaccines at a time as well as autism. There are others, too, I am just not all that knowledgable about them to present it here.

This is an off topic slightly, but my child with Asperger's also is diagnosed with bipolar and you posted on another thread about anti-depressants being dangerous with mood stabilizers. I asked you if you had more info on that, and I don't know if you ever saw my question or not. That is very concerning to me. However, let's just say I have low trust in the pharmaceutical industry, period.

Yes, I saw it. I responded and said I would reply to you on the "mental illness when enough is enough thread." I didn't want to threadjack the anxiety thread. I wrote you a response.


I have always had a gut feeling that we are not getting all of the information about this vaccination subject. I just don't know where to get sound information vaccination safety and injury. People tend to be very emotional on both sides and it feels as though true information might be buried...

My 11 year old is due for Gardasil. He wants it because he has been told that it will prevent many types of cancer. I feel very, very apprehensive about this vaccine.

When you look up Gardasil injury, the information is very cloudy. It shows that there are only "officially" a few hundred injuries but when you talk to the general public, you hear many mothers talk about their children experience injuries as if it is commonplace. How is this so? Are these injuries just "unproven?"

How am I to make an informed decision?

First, my understanding is that Gardasil is claimed to protect against just four STRAINS of HPV, not MANY types of cancer. It's understandable that an 11 year old would possibly get false information, but wow, that's way, way off.

In my daughter's case, her doctor refused to consider that her seizures and migraines are caused by the vaccine. I have no doubt they reported none of it to the CDC.

Actually, we were told that Gardisil will prevent oral, anal, and some types of penile cancer caused by HPV. We were told this by my son's pediatrician.

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skep...mends-new-gardasil-cancer-prevention-vaccine/

Yes, you are correct. Since you have a son, it sounds like your pediatrician's office was focusing on the types of cancers that males can get as a result of HPV. Here is a link that shows the types of cancers that can be caused by HPV:
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/infectious-agents/hpv-vaccine-fact-sheet#q2

 

[LadyMCh]

A few points:
There are ~20-30 different strains of HPV.
Gardasil protects against the 4 strains that are most likely to cause cancer.
HPV is spread by sexual contact, and can cause cancer basically wherever you can "stick it", for lack of better phrasing. So, HPV can cause oral, throat, vaginal/cervical, anal/colon, etc, etc, etc cancer. Remember when Michael Douglas had throat cancer? That was attributed to HPV.
Also, HPV is rampant. It's the same virus (but different strains) that causes genital warts. It is estimated that over 70% of sexually active adults will have at least one strain of HPV in their lifetime. Most people, especially men, never experience any symptoms and then clear the virus by 2 years from exposure. About 90% of people are able to clear the virus 5 years from the time they were exposed. If you've ever had an abnormal pap and the reason cited was dysplasia, or if you've ever had a coloposcopy (NOT colonoscopy)- where they harvest cells to screen for cancer from inside your hoo-ha, or a LEEP procedure, then you probably have/have had a strain of HPV. Complications from HPV can also affect fertility and ability to carry a child to full-term.
Gardasil is recommended for people even after they have become sexually active because you can continue to be exposed to same strain (if your partner has it) or a different strain (new partner). Of course, if you get it after you are already sexually active, you cold already have HPV, so damage could already be done.
I was vaccinated with Gardasil when I was 22 and...let's just say I was not an in college. BUT, I was from a SUPER conservative family, and would not or rather could not have that conversation with my parents. *This* is one of the many reasons children under 18 are allowed to make their own medical decisions in some states (and even after the age of 18 if they're still on their parents insurance, but this is another long topic!).
Another reason medical staff tries to have private time alone with children is because this is a great time to assess if the child is being abused. This is the same for spousal abuse. If you're a woman, and your husband/partner is at the hospital/appt with you, have you ever noticed staff separate you and ask you questions like if you "feel safe at home"?
Also, I saw titers were mentioned. If you move or for whatever reason need proof of vax history and can no longer get it from your MD office (or like me, got vax's from so many different places that collecting all the records was impossible), you can get your TITERS! Basically, they draw your blood and can see what you have antibodies for. This shows you have been vaxxed against it, and, as a previous poster pointed out, can also show you may need a booster for something b/c you don't have enough antibodies anymore to protect you from it.
As far as the vax debate goes, I'm on the vax side. And in regards to Gardasil, my anecdotal experience was only that the butt cheek where I got the shot throbbed for a day.

 

[House Cat]

There is now a new Gardasil vaccine that protects against 9 strains of HPV (Gardasil-9). They are claiming it is safer than the Gardasil-4 vax.

 

[LadyMCh]

There is now a new Gardasil vaccine that protects against 9 strains of HPV (Gardasil-9). They are claiming it is safer than the Gardasil-4 vax.

Ahh! Thx, House Cat! Since I got mine almost a decade ago, I guess I got ye olde one!

 

[KaeKae]

Thank you, LadyMCh for clarifying that, so I didn't have to.

 

[KaeKae]

There is now a new Gardasil vaccine that protects against 9 strains of HPV (Gardasil-9). They are claiming it is safer than the Gardasil-4 vax.

Safer? Meaning it supposedly protects against more strains? Or safer, as having fewer side effects?