Pediatricians are 'firing' anti-vax parents

[luv2sparkle]

My children were all vaccinated, but the amount that they want to give kids now is mind boggling to me. I also know several girls who had horrible reactions to Gardasil and one who very nearly died. That they would try to do an end run around a parent is infuriating to me.

I think the rarely new concept of a Dr. firing a patient is interesting. It seems that people are very quickly losing their ability to make their own choices. I was recently 'fired' from my Dr. because I refused to come in for an appt when they called and demanded I make one. I had not seen her in two years and apparently that was not acceptable. I didn't balk because I think she is a terrible doctor. She did me a favor in the long run. She lied to the HMO and said that she had tried to contact me numerous times and that I was non-compliant. None of which was true. I was leaving on a trip when her office called and then my first grandchild was due as soon as I got back. Anyway, I refused to make an appt at that time an said I would make one as soon as everything settled down.

 

[TooPatient]

KaeKae -- I do NOT agree with that doctor's approach in any way. That is truly disgusting and I would have fired him too!

One thing you should look at is the age kids are allowed to make medical decisions on their own in your state. Washington is like age 12. After that age, a child can choose to allow (or not) a parent in the room with them and make all sorts of medical decisions. Of the parent wants one and the kid the other, the kid wins. (of course that leaves me wondering who is expected to pay large co pays for whatever the kid feels like doing,.... Oh, and WHO THINKS THAT A 12 YEAR OLD CAN MAKE SERIOUS MEDICAL CHOICES ON THEIR OWN!!!)

ETA: I only suggest looking so you are aware and can be prepared in case something like this happens again. Sounds like you have a smart kid who knows how to stand up for themselves. Awesome work!

 

[House Cat]

I suppose I should be grateful that my youngest is about to turn 18 and we've already left the pediatric office who has given us grief about the one vaccine I refuse to give her and refused to finish giving my older child.

DD1 is among those who have a vaccine injury from Gardasil. A bad reaction right after the vaccination. Seizures, migraines, started shortly after the second dose of Gardasil. Doctor "agreed to disagree" when I chose not to allow the last booster.

THEN that same doctor attempted to go over my head with my second daughter. She told DD2 that she could have the vaccine anyway, even without my agreement. DD2 told her: no, my sister started having seizures after Gardsil.

Fired her after that appointment. Only used the practice for sick visits, then moved daughter over to my doctor, who has not brought up Gardasil. DD1 sees a doctor at her school, mostly, as she's across the country at college.

I have since learned there are many questions about the vaccination schedule now expected of a baby born today. However, my kids are done with that, so I leave the questions to those involved and in the know.

KaeKae, wait, the doctor tried to convince your MINOR child to get a vaccine knowing you didn't want it? That's illegal! I have vaccinated my children, and yes my kids did get gardasil and thankfully had no reaction. But that was my decision as a parent. I would be beyond livid if a doctor tried to talk my child into something against my wishes. Whatever side someone is on with the vaccinations a doctor has no right to try and go around a parent directly to the child!!

Thank you so much for the supportive words. Yes, I would have thought it was illegal, too, but apparently it can be done, in CA, anyway. I was furious. Probably should have gone in and made a stink. Maybe call the local paper. But, I simply chose to leave the practice. It took me a while. Thankfully, DD2 rarely gets sick.

I do hear from more and more parents who are choosing not to go with the Gardasil, so more must be questioning the safety or success of the vaccine.

Please know, I do not make light of any of this. I recognize vaccines have made great improvements in eradicating some terrible diseases, and my girls had everything else on the vax schedule. But then I learned the hard way that vaccine injury is a real possibility, and due to the nature of Gardisil, we don't know yet exactly how some patients will be effected down the line. (Infertility is one worry.)

Children over the age of 12 are in charge of their healthcare in California.

They can withhold records from their parents (right to privacy.) They can refuse treatment. They can consent to any treatment they want.

This all stems from the laws that gave children access to birth control and abortions and the possible need for privacy when accessing these services. Once the laws were passed that gave them control over these services, they became blanketed over all services.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

As someone who nearly died from chickenpox contracted as an adult, my opinions on people who refuse vaccinations cannot be printed in a public forum.

Just curious, why didn't you have the vaccine? It has been out for over 20 years.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

KaeKae -- I do NOT agree with that doctor's approach in any way. That is truly disgusting and I would have fired him too!

One thing you should look at is the age kids are allowed to make medical decisions on their own in your state. Washington is like age 12. After that age, a child can choose to allow (or not) a parent in the room with them and make all sorts of medical decisions. Of the parent wants one and the kid the other, the kid wins. (of course that leaves me wondering who is expected to pay large co pays for whatever the kid feels like doing,.... Oh, and WHO THINKS THAT A 12 YEAR OLD CAN MAKE SERIOUS MEDICAL CHOICES ON THEIR OWN!!!)

ETA: I only suggest looking so you are aware and can be prepared in case something like this happens again. Sounds like you have a smart kid who knows how to stand up for themselves. Awesome work!

12??? OH my gosh. That is a special kind of CRAZY. I'd be working on overturning that or moving from that state.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

In looking up when the chickenpox vaccine was available, I found some interesting statistics.

http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Chickenpox.aspx

Recovery from chickenpox confers long lasting natural immunity in populations, where the disease is circulating and older children and adults are asymptomatically boosted by periodic contact with younger children with chickenpox

Chickenpox Vaccine

There are two live virus vaccines for chickenpox licensed in the U.S.: Varivax and ProQuad (MMRV) manufactured by Merck;
The CDC recommends children get a chickenpox shot at 12 months old and a booster dose between 4 and 6 years old;
Reported complications from chickenpox vaccine include shock, seizures, brain inflammation (encephalitis), thrombocytopenia (blood disorder), Guillian Barre syndrome, death and infection with vaccine strain chickenpox or transmission of vaccine strain chickenpox to others;

Chickenpox vaccine effectiveness is reported to be 44 percent for any form of the disease and 86 percent for moderate to severe disease;
Mass use of chickenpox vaccine by children in the U.S. has removed natural boosting of immunity in the population, which was protective against shingles, and now adults are experiencing a shingles epidemic;

So, the vaccine itself can give the disease to others, so don't blame unvaccinated people for getting it, you are more likely to get it from someone recently vaccinated since there are far more of them.

The vaccine has removed the NATURAL boosting of immunity in the population, so now there is a shingles epidemic. Great.

Vaccine effectiveness is 44% for any form of the disease, so again, you can't automatically blame unvaccinated people if you get it.

People really need to be reading all the information on ANY vaccine or medication.

 

[distracts]

re: Gardasil, my peers and I were just entering college when it first came out, and fwiw almost every woman my age I know has the vaccine and no one has had any negative effects other than the usual soreness at the injection site. So, I mean, if we're going with anecdotal evidence, mine shows that it's completely safe.

Children over the age of 12 are in charge of their healthcare in California.

They can withhold records from their parents (right to privacy.) They can refuse treatment. They can consent to any treatment they want.

This all stems from the laws that gave children access to birth control and abortions and the possible need for privacy when accessing these services. Once the laws were passed that gave them control over these services, they became blanketed over all services.

I also wonder if it stems from those crazy religions that prohibit healthcare, so that parents can't deny medical care to a child if they want it (and can convey themselves to a proper medical facility). It makes me sick whenever I read about parents who let their child die from something completely curable.

 

[shaggy1]

Vaccine effectiveness is 44% for any form of the disease, so again, you can't automatically blame unvaccinated people if you get it.

People really need to be reading all the information on ANY vaccine or medication.

I would definitely encourage more reading about the chicken pox vaccine.

The vaccine is currently estimated at between 70 and 95% effectiveness. The vaccine has reduced cases in the United States from 4 million per year to under 400,000.


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/varicella.html


I can blame an unvaccinated person because I know exactly who I caught it from. A 10 year old child who had chickenpox whose idiot parents brought him to a company picnic because they thought it was good to expose people and "build up natural antibodies" in strangers.

Just curious, why didn't you have the vaccine? It has been out for over 20 years.

Because I'm old enough that my cohort was not recommended the vaccine. (My cohort is recommend the vaccine today, but not when I contracted the disease).

Thanks for the sympathy . oh wait... Never mind.

 

[kenny]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Vaccine effectiveness is 44% for any form of the disease, so again, you can't automatically blame unvaccinated people if you get it.

People really need to be reading all the information on ANY vaccine or medication.

I would definitely encourage more reading about the chicken pox vaccine.

The vaccine is currently estimated at between 70 and 95% effectiveness. The vaccine has reduced cases in the United States from 4 million per year to under 400,000.


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/varicella.html


I can blame an unvaccinated person because I know exactly who I caught it from. A 10 year old child who had chickenpox whose idiot parents brought him to a company picnic because they thought it was good to expose people and "build up natural antibodies" in strangers.

Just curious, why didn't you have the vaccine? It has been out for over 20 years.

Because I'm old enough that my cohort was not recommended the vaccine. (My cohort is recommend the vaccine today, but not when I contracted the disease).

Thanks for the sympathy . oh wait... Never mind.

I am sorry that I didn't know you knew who you caught it from and should have asked you, and I am very sorry you became sick. It certainly was wrong of the parents to bring a sick child to a company picnic, period. They were right about exposure increasing natural immunity, except that idea definitely didn't work well for unvaccinated people who also had not had chicken pox. It shouldn't have been their job to decide that for others, and they were wrong to do that.

As far as the specific stats go, I guess it depends on who you trust for that information. But while there has been a decrease in chicken pox in children, there has been a significant increase in shingles in adults.

 

[ksinger]

But while there has been a decrease in chicken pox in children, there has been a significant increase in shingles in adults.

An increase that is not attributable to the vaccine, according to the CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/shingles/hcp/clinical-overview.html

Trends

Herpes zoster rates are increasing among adults in the United States. The increase has been gradual over a long period of time. We do not know the reason for this increase.[5,6,7]

Some experts suggest that exposure to varicella boosts a person’s immunity to VZV and reduces the risk for VZV reactivation. Thus, they are concerned that routine childhood varicella vaccination, recommended in the United States in 1996, could lead to an increase in herpes zoster in adults due to reduced opportunities for being exposed to varicella. However, two CDC studies have found that herpes zoster rates:

started increasing before varicella vaccine was introduced in the United States, and
did not accelerate after the routine varicella vaccination program started.[5,8]
Other countries, that do not have routine varicella vaccination programs, have also observed similar increases in herpes zoster rates.[9]

5. Leung J, Harpaz R, Molinari NA, Jumaan A, Zhou F. Herpes zoster incidence among insured persons in the United States, 1993-2006: evaluation of impact of varicella vaccination. Clinical Infectious Diseases. 2011;52(3):332-340.

6. Yih W, Brooks D, Lett S, Jumaan A, Zhang Z, Clements K, Seward J. The Incidence of varicella and herpes zoster in Massachusetts as measured by the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) during a period of increasing varicella vaccine coverage. BMC Public Health. 2005;5(6.

7. Jumaan AO, Yu O, Jackson LA, Bohlke K, Galil K, Seward JF. Incidence of herpes zoster, before and after varicella vaccination-associated decreases in the incidence of varicella. Journal of Infectious Diseases. 2005;191:2002-7.

8. Hales CM, Harpaz R, Joesoef MR, Bialek SR (2013). Examination of links between herpes zoster incidence and childhood varicella vaccination. Annals of Internal Medicine. 159(11):739-45

9. Russell ML, Dover DC, Simmonds KA, Svenson LW. Shingles in Alberta: before and after publicly funded varicella vaccination. Vaccine. DOI 10.1016/j.vaccine.2013.09.018.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

This

 

[House Cat]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

This is interesting to me.

Is there a way to know if your child has those genetic markers before vaccinating?

 

[kenny]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

Nope.
The many outrank the few.

Google herd immunity.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

Nope.
The many outrank the few.

Google herd immunity.

Jesus, this is scary, since when is it morally appropriate to sacrifice any life to save another?

Herd immunity was never meant to apply to the temporary immunity provided by a vaccine, it applied to the natural immunity you get from acquiring an antigen naturally. Herd immunity is a total farce anyway considering that a good majority of the adult population is not fully vaccinated or up to date. People make such a stink about the unvaccinated kids being vessels for disease but somehow all the adults walking around get a free pass. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[kenny]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

Nope.
The many outrank the few.

Google herd immunity.

Jesus, this is scary, since when is it morally appropriate to sacrifice any life to save another?

Herd immunity was never meant to apply to the temporary immunity provided by a vaccine, it applied to the natural immunity you get from acquiring an antigen naturally. Herd immunity is a total farce anyway considering that a good majority of the adult population is not fully vaccinated or up to date. People make such a stink about the unvaccinated kids being vessels for disease but somehow all the adults walking around get a free pass. Doesn't make any sense.

Jesus yourself.

If one dies but millions are saved that's a good thing.
If one dies but thousands are saved, that's a good thing.
If one dies but hundreds are saved, that's a good thing.
If one dies but two are saved, that's a good thing.

If one dies but only one is saved ... then we have a debate.

You'd rather a million die than one?
You'd rather a thousand die than one?
You'd rather a hundred die than one?
You'd rather two die than one.

Where are YOUR morals? ......... Jesus Yourself!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

Nope.
The many outrank the few.

Google herd immunity.

Jesus, this is scary, since when is it morally appropriate to sacrifice any life to save another?

Herd immunity was never meant to apply to the temporary immunity provided by a vaccine, it applied to the natural immunity you get from acquiring an antigen naturally. Herd immunity is a total farce anyway considering that a good majority of the adult population is not fully vaccinated or up to date. People make such a stink about the unvaccinated kids being vessels for disease but somehow all the adults walking around get a free pass. Doesn't make any sense.

Jesus yourself.

If one dies but millions are saved that's a good thing.
If one dies but thousands are saved, that's a good thing.
If one dies but hundreds are saved, that's a good thing.

If one dies but only one is saved ... then we have a debate.

No, no debate here, no vaccines for my kids or myself for that matter. If that makes me a terrible member of society so be it but my priority is protecting MY kids who have already been identified as susceptible to injury.

Don't worry though, if H.R 2232 gets passed then any child in a public school in the U.S will have to get every single vaccine on the CDC schedule to attend school, flu shots, HPV, the whole thing. Sounds great right? Except that eventually they will mandate them for adults too, since we need to "protect the herd" and then you lose all your medical freedom. So then they could argue that every member of society must get the AIDS vaccine for example because it is for the greater good and any other vaccine they can conjure up including fast tracked ones that have not been adequately studied for safety.

I'm good, I took one for the herd when I vaccinated my first son and guess what, nobody was helping me get him to his therapy appointments or writing the checks for the co-pays and the endless doctors I took him to. I did my part, played by their rules and it didn't work for us.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Oh and as far as morals are concerned, I morally object to vaccines because of the injuries they have caused MY family. I found your statement about sacrificing one to save many offensive because that then means I am supposed to sacrifice the health and possible life of my child to save yours?

 

[kenny]

Oh and as far as morals are concerned, I morally object to vaccines because of the injuries they have caused MY family. I found your statement about sacrificing one to save many offensive because that then means I am supposed to sacrifice the health and possible life of my child to save yours?

No.
Not to save my kids.
Please don't shoot the messenger.

Ethics/morals isn't personal .
It's not about you or about me.
It's about humanity ... IOW about 7 billion, and counting.

Sorry your family got injured, but it's good you did the right thing for society.
Everyone's DNA is precious ... just as precious as yours.
This is 2016 ... no longer should it be about competition ... it should be about cooperation ... well, that is, if you are about ethics and morals.

I'm not an A-hole.
I'm just into equality.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Oh and as far as morals are concerned, I morally object to vaccines because of the injuries they have caused MY family. I found your statement about sacrificing one to save many offensive because that then means I am supposed to sacrifice the health and possible life of my child to save yours?

No.
Not to save my kids.
Please don't shoot the messenger.

Ethics/morals isn't personal .
It's not about you or about me.
It's about humanity ... IOW billions.

Sorry your family got injured, but it's good you did the right thing for society.
Everyone's DNA is precious ... as precious as yours.
This is 2016 ... no longer should like be about competition ... it should be about cooperation.

I'm not an A-hole.
I'm just into equality.

Ha! I don't think your an A-hole. I get where you are coming from we just have different perspectives on this. The moral thing wasn't a personal attack on you it was more about that line of thinking. So, I didn't mean any personal offense to you, I do apologize if you took it that way.

 

[kenny]

Oh and as far as morals are concerned, I morally object to vaccines because of the injuries they have caused MY family. I found your statement about sacrificing one to save many offensive because that then means I am supposed to sacrifice the health and possible life of my child to save yours?

No.
Not to save my kids.
Please don't shoot the messenger.

Ethics/morals isn't personal .
It's not about you or about me.
It's about humanity ... IOW billions.

Sorry your family got injured, but it's good you did the right thing for society.
Everyone's DNA is precious ... as precious as yours.
This is 2016 ... no longer should like be about competition ... it should be about cooperation.

I'm not an A-hole.
I'm just into equality.

Ha! I don't think your an A-hole. I get where you are coming from we just have different perspectives on this. The moral thing wasn't a personal attack on you it was more about that line of thinking. So, I didn't mean any personal offense to you, I do apologize if you took it that way.

Not a bit.

Not a bit.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

No, no debate here, no vaccines for my kids or myself for that matter. If that makes me a terrible member of society so be it but my priority is protecting MY kids who have already been identified as susceptible to injury.

Don't worry though, if H.R 2232 gets passed then any child in a public school in the U.S will have to get every single vaccine on the CDC schedule to attend school, flu shots, HPV, the whole thing. Sounds great right? Except that eventually they will mandate them for adults too, since we need to "protect the herd" and then you lose all your medical freedom. So then they could argue that every member of society must get the AIDS vaccine for example because it is for the greater good and any other vaccine they can conjure up including fast tracked ones that have not been adequately studied for safety.

I'm good, I took one for the herd when I vaccinated my first son and guess what, nobody was helping me get him to his therapy appointments or writing the checks for the co-pays and the endless doctors I took him to. I did my part, played by their rules and it didn't work for us.

And this is 100% why there HAVE to be medical exemptions, period! I do have a grown son with Aspergers/HFA and he is truly very disabled. I wonder what it was that did it, because we have absolutely no history. We'd do the genetic testing if he were to marry, but he never will be able to. I used to be an ignorant, trusting sheeple who just blindly followed the recommended list, but no longer. I do not trust those who profit from drugs and vaccines (in the billions of dollars) to make my health care decisions for me, especially when they are immune (pun) from being sued when a child or anyone is injured by a vaccine.

Ironically, my youngest daughter's (the one who skipped the HPV vaccine) first college roommate was severely affected by the HPV vaccine. She would just faint with no warning. She made many visits to the ER. It took a couple of years for doctors to figure out what was going on. She had to take a reduced load and go home for a semester. It will likely take her double the time to finish college and unless she miraculously improves, I don't think she'll ever hold a fulltime job.

I am sorry to hear about your son, Stephanie. I do completely understand your position and support it.

 

[Ellen]

No, no debate here, no vaccines for my kids or myself for that matter. If that makes me a terrible member of society so be it but my priority is protecting MY kids who have already been identified as susceptible to injury.

Don't worry though, if H.R 2232 gets passed then any child in a public school in the U.S will have to get every single vaccine on the CDC schedule to attend school, flu shots, HPV, the whole thing. Sounds great right? Except that eventually they will mandate them for adults too, since we need to "protect the herd" and then you lose all your medical freedom. So then they could argue that every member of society must get the AIDS vaccine for example because it is for the greater good and any other vaccine they can conjure up including fast tracked ones that have not been adequately studied for safety.

I'm good, I took one for the herd when I vaccinated my first son and guess what, nobody was helping me get him to his therapy appointments or writing the checks for the co-pays and the endless doctors I took him to. I did my part, played by their rules and it didn't work for us.

And this is 100% why there HAVE to be medical exemptions, period! I do have a grown son with Aspergers/HFA and he is truly very disabled. I wonder what it was that did it, because we have absolutely no history. We'd do the genetic testing if he were to marry, but he never will be able to. I used to be an ignorant, trusting sheeple who just blindly followed the recommended list, but no longer. I do not trust those who profit from drugs and vaccines (in the billions of dollars) to make my health care decisions for me, especially when they are immune (pun) from being sued when a child or anyone is injured by a vaccine.

Ironically, my youngest daughter's (the one who skipped the HPV vaccine) first college roommate was severely affected by the HPV vaccine. She would just faint with no warning. She made many visits to the ER. It took a couple of years for doctors to figure out what was going on. She had to take a reduced load and go home for a semester. It will likely take her double the time to finish college and unless she miraculously improves, I don't think she'll ever hold a fulltime job.

I am sorry to hear about your son, Stephanie. I do completely understand your position and support it.

I would give a LOT of money to know just how many people, every single one of us come in contact with daily (or touch something like door handles, money, escalator handles, etc., etc.) that have some (truly) dreaded disease, that we never get.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

This is interesting to me.

Is there a way to know if your child has those genetic markers before vaccinating?

I don't think there is a simple answer, unfortunately, or we would all do it (well those of us who actually believe that averse reactions and injury exist). I was just reading the other day about MTHFR gene mutations and that it can cause difficulty ridding the body of toxins, so that might be connected to danger with too many vaccines at a time as well as autism. There are others, too, I am just not all that knowledgable about them to present it here.

This is an off topic slightly, but my child with Asperger's also is diagnosed with bipolar and you posted on another thread about anti-depressants being dangerous with mood stabilizers. I asked you if you had more info on that, and I don't know if you ever saw my question or not. That is very concerning to me. However, let's just say I have low trust in the pharmaceutical industry, period.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hey, Ellen!!!

 

[Calliecake]

I don't have children but have never understood giving multiple vaccines at the same time. It makes no sense to me. If your child has a reaction you don't even know which vaccine is the problem when given more than one at a time. I wouldn't let the vet give my dog multiple vaccines. I spaced them out one per month.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I don't have children but have never understood giving multiple vaccines at the same time. It makes no sense to me. If your child has a reaction you don't even know which vaccine is the problem when given more than one at a time. I wouldn't let the vet give my dog multiple vaccines. I spaced them out one per month.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Diamondseeker, it appears we belong to the same club that nobody voluntarily joins. My son had the high pitched cry after his four month shots, he literally cried all day just this heart wrenching cry. He was born at a low birth weight so when he would periodically sleep for 28 hours straight I chalked it up to a growth spurt since he was such a peanut. Although I think that he had something going on with his development from the start, the vaccines didn't help.

Long story short, he has sensory processing disorder and facial tics. I'm almost certain that we have MTHFR going on because if you put my health history together with my two sons you get a pretty clear picture. In addition my brother has Crohns, so genetic mutation with gut problems that run in the family. Hindsight is 20/20, it is interesting to see the difference between my one year old and his two year old brother who only received a vitamin K shot.

The need to look into this mutation, but I doubt that would happen because a good majority of the population has an MTHFR mutation (I've read up to 50% of the population) so if they come out and say that MTHFR is a contraindication they would lose too much money. Then how would they fund the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? Considering it is funded by the tax on each vaccine given in the U.S. I just don't see them looking into it.

 

[House Cat]

This boils down to the rights of the individual vs. those of the collective.

When public health is at stake (as with red lights at intersections) the rights of collective must prevail.
Yes I realize you are a special snowflake late for your appointment, but too bad; you must stop at the red lights.

When it comes to such matters, protecting society outranks individual freedom.

Kenny, in general that is true. But there is growing evidence that some children with certain conditions or genetic markers have adverse reactions to certain vaccines or ingredients in the vaccines, and it should be the parents' right along with their doctor's advice to determine whether their child should or should not receive specific vaccines just like any other medication or medical treatment.

This is interesting to me.

Is there a way to know if your child has those genetic markers before vaccinating?

I don't think there is a simple answer, unfortunately, or we would all do it (well those of us who actually believe that averse reactions and injury exist). I was just reading the other day about MTHFR gene mutations and that it can cause difficulty ridding the body of toxins, so that might be connected to danger with too many vaccines at a time as well as autism. There are others, too, I am just not all that knowledgable about them to present it here.

This is an off topic slightly, but my child with Asperger's also is diagnosed with bipolar and you posted on another thread about anti-depressants being dangerous with mood stabilizers. I asked you if you had more info on that, and I don't know if you ever saw my question or not. That is very concerning to me. However, let's just say I have low trust in the pharmaceutical industry, period.

Yes, I saw it. I responded and said I would reply to you on the "mental illness when enough is enough thread." I didn't want to threadjack the anxiety thread. I wrote you a response.


I have always had a gut feeling that we are not getting all of the information about this vaccination subject. I just don't know where to get sound information vaccination safety and injury. People tend to be very emotional on both sides and it feels as though true information might be buried...

My 11 year old is due for Gardasil. He wants it because he has been told that it will prevent many types of cancer. I feel very, very apprehensive about this vaccine.

When you look up Gardasil injury, the information is very cloudy. It shows that there are only "officially" a few hundred injuries but when you talk to the general public, you hear many mothers talk about their children experience injuries as if it is commonplace. How is this so? Are these injuries just "unproven?"

How am I to make an informed decision?