Opinions on Gorilla killed at Cinn. Zoo

[msop04]

I detest zoos and circuses. That's really all I can say on the matter because it breaks my heart on several levels just reading the story, seeing the video, and reading people's reactions. And here's what: each evolved species with higher intelligence than any other always THINKS they are the be-all, end-all. Humans as a species will never get it through their thick, still-evolving heads that there will be something else to come along and devour us all or at least that we are doomed to destroy ourselves through our gross overconsumption of every damn thing. For example, this links to an excerpt of Daniel Quinn's Ishmael:

https://drew-shelton-portfolio.wikispaces.com/file/view/The+Origin+of+the+Jellyfish+(from+Ishmael+by+Daniel+Quinn).pdf

If only animals could talk. I wonder what they'd have to say about the way "God" designed everything to work out so great for humans.

Regardless of how you feel about it, humans have the upper hand compared to all the other animals. Would you rather humans be lower on the food chain? I guess I'm confused by what seem to be anger and sarcasm in the above bolded lines. The fact that we can think and reason at all puts us higher than any other known species... well, ever.

What action do you feel would have been more appropriate, monarch? I'm not being snarky, I sincerely want to know how you feel killing the animal was the wrong thing to do in this situation.

I never said I felt killing the animal was the wrong thing to do. Maybe re-read my post. What I said was, looking at the bigger picture, that I think zoos and circuses are bullshit. Tack horse and dog racing and everything else for human consumption and entertainment on there, too. And LOL "would I rather humans were lower on the food chain." No. I am speaking from a place of extreme privilege and I am acutely aware of that. I also make choices not to harm other living things that bleed and reproduce like I do. The zoo had no choice but to kill the poor gorilla in this case because the idiots in the crowd exacerbated the situation, like humans will do because they are idiots. Yes, I'm angry. I'm angry that humans treat each other and other beings like shit for their own benefit. Survival, my a$$.

Did the crowd provoke the gorilla? Yeah, I'm sure this didn't help the situation and certainly led to the gorilla being agitated. But, honestly, the gorilla would have to be taken down, regardless of its behavior. This is because no one can predict what it may or may not do... for the child's safety. It's a sad situation that could have been prevented. However, I'm glad that there was no more loss of life than there was. I'm sorry you feel such anger, but seriously... it could have been much, much worse.

 

[CJ2008]

I have not read accounts of the event.

But please. Please tell me the crowd did not provoke the gorilla intentionally.

 

[msop04]

I have not read accounts of the event.

But please. Please tell me the crowd did not provoke the gorilla intentionally.

From what I understand, the crowd was scared for the little boy. They got loud, possibly leading to the gorilla's agitation.

 

[AGBF]

Here is what happened on another occasion (this is a male silverback gorilla):

Link...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N05CItceEdg

I will also put up a video of Binti.

 

[AGBF]

Binti, who was raised by people, actually rescued a child:

Link...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKuAQo5Wbbw

 

[CJ2008]

I have not read accounts of the event.

But please. Please tell me the crowd did not provoke the gorilla intentionally.

From what I understand, the crowd was scared for the little boy. They got loud, possibly leading to the gorilla's agitation.

OK.

Thanks.

Like everyone has been saying...no matter what your perspective is...it's a sad story all around.

I saw a meme today showing a gorilla giving a kid the middle finger with the caption something along the lines of "next time a gorilla sees a kid" or something like that. I didn't think it was funny at all. I hid the post so I wouldn't have to look at it.

 

[msop04]

I have not read accounts of the event.

But please. Please tell me the crowd did not provoke the gorilla intentionally.

From what I understand, the crowd was scared for the little boy. They got loud, possibly leading to the gorilla's agitation.

OK.

Thanks.

Like everyone has been saying...no matter what your perspective is...it's a sad story all around.

I saw a meme today showing a gorilla giving a kid the middle finger with the caption something along the lines of "next time a gorilla sees a kid" or something like that. I didn't think it was funny at all. I hid the post so I wouldn't have to look at it.

Oh, geez... how insensitive! [emoji15][emoji17]

 

[CJ2008]

Oh, geez... how insensitive! [emoji15][emoji17]

Yeah.

Idiots.

 

[KaeKae]

Strangely, I was at a local teaching zoo on Sunday. This place is not nearly the size of the Cincinnati Zoo. In fact, I was surprised at just how close the fencing was to the large animal enclosures. I was upset about that and the size of the enclosures, until I learned that the zoo is undergoing a big fundraising campaign in order to expand the habitats.

We decided to take the VIP tour, which allows you to go "behind the scenes" so to speak. The tour guide was very clear that we were to stand on the far side of the walkway, away from the cages. There were two families with young children. I'd say preschool age. One family had their children at their sides the entire time, while the other let the kids run ahead, go up close to the cages. At one point, I nearly stepped between a child and the cage, ready to say: we have to stand over there, or maybe even: where is your mom and dad? Finally, the guide had had enough and was more than firm about where the kids should be. STILL, that couple didn't bother to hold onto the kids.

I was agitated, worrying that one of them might get close enough to upset/frighten an animal, putting the child in danger of being hurt through the cage. Then I come home and see this story on the news.

Still, I don't want to put all the blame on the mom, as I was not there. Both the zoo and the visitor must take responsibility for safety, at all times.

 

[Karl_K]

ultimately it is the zoos responsibility to keep the animals and the people safe.
They failed on both accounts. They are responsible.
Having been around a few 3 year olds they are the masters of there one second and gone the next so I don't blame the mom.
Once the gorilla got hold of the child they had no choice but to kill it.

I would like to see a bunch of zoo officials get fired as well as anyone who knew about the hole the child got into and did nothing.
You want to bet it was known about before hand and someone said naw its to small no one would get in and it would cost money to fix so it was left alone.
That will be buried by the zoo and unless a whistle-blower talks it will never be proven.

I didn't read where the child got through a hole? I thought I read that he actually climbed the fence (or maybe even two), and crawled through several feet of foliage before eventually falling into the enclosure?

The news story i read said there was a small space between 2 fences that he went though, now i see others are saying he went over the fence.

 

[yssie]

I think that in this situation, the correct decision was to shoot the gorilla. A child's life lost would have been detrimental to all - zoo keepers, bystanders, the parents, the zoo itself ($$$ and reputation), etc.

HOWEVER
It is the mothers fault for letting this situation happen in the first place. It should NEVER have gotten there. The child should not have been out of his mothers attention for MINUTES. If you cannot control your child, they should not be allowed anywhere unsupervised. If a dog who "couldn't be watched 100% of the time" attacked another dog (or child) that owner would be 100% responsible - your dog, your responsibility. Your child, your responsibility.

Why people continue to spawn and not take responsibility I cannot fathom.

Ditto, ditto, thritto! Oh my goodness.

This entire debacle could have been avoided. Yes, I said the "A" word. It was 100% preventable. Those toddler backpacks with leashes? Places with dangerous animals and lots of strangers in close quarters and distractions everywhere you turn is what those things were MADE for, especially if you're dealing with multiple children...

Have a problem with leashing your child? Then you'd best succeed at keeping watch on the slippery little bugger - trying ain't good enough. This "accident" was negligence, pure and simple.

 

[stracci2000]

Thanks, everyone, for your responses.
If the mom had been watching the boy, this spectacular animal would still be alive. He was truly gorgeous.
The gorilla had to die for the mother's negligence. So sad. I'm pretty pissed at her.
The zoo had to make the hard call, and I empathize with them.

I was also upset about the killing of Cecil the lion. I hope Walter Palmer never lives that one down.

 

[Matata]

Couldn't resist this bit of levity. A different mother's perspective.

 

[Gypsy]

Couldn't resist this bit of levity. A different mother's perspective.

I like that Matata.

Frankly, I wouldn't have been at the zoo. I don't believe in the exploitation of animals for public consumption in zoos or other similar businesses. Yes, zoos do serve some purpose for preservation and research, but that work can be done, and done better in ways that do not exploit the animals and expose them to risk.

I agree mostly with Rainy. The gorilla was innocent of harm and the child was the intruder. Yes, I agree the child should have been saved but I hate that it was a choice at all. And if we stopped supporting zoos these wonderful animals would not be put into positions like this. So who do I blame? Everyone but the poor gorilla.

 

[Matata]

I agree mostly with Rainy. The gorilla was innocent of harm and the child was the intruder. Yes, I agree the child should have been saved but I hate that it was a choice at all. And if we stopped supporting zoos these wonderful animals would not be put into positions like this. So who do I blame? Everyone but the poor gorilla.

Zoos present a dilemma. Humans have become the scourge of the earth, consuming resources at a rapacious rate. We are the instruments of our own destruction. If zoos didn't exist, most of the animals housed in them would not exist. There is no place for them to go to be safe. There is very little natural habitat left for most animals to survive. The purpose of zoos should be to educate us on the value of those animals to our very existence and instill in us the commitment to ensure their survival, to curb the growth and spread of Homo Sapiens to the detriment of all life. I learned a long time ago, when I was a wildlife rehabilitator adamantly opposed to letting he general public into our facility, that the best way to instill respect for non Homo Sapiens is for us, especially children, to be able to interact with them -- see, smell, hear, touch. That is the best way to instill respect, or it used to be, before we became total shitheads.

 

[Gypsy]

Well we are total shitheads now and I don't think zoos do all that. What they do, in my opinion, is make children think that humanity has the right, because of our virus like 'might', to enslave these animals and lock them away for our own enjoyment. That these animals exist for OUR benefit. Instead of teaching children that the earth is not humanity's play ground, that we have to SHARE it and that we are responsible for preserving it, and that these animals exist for their own benefit, and that our role is to make sure they continue to exist IN THE WILD and to leave them the heck alone to do what they will, without our interference.

And yes, a lot of their habitats have been destroyed. So what needs to happen is that we need to find away to recreate them and give these creatures back what we've stolen from them.

And to do that we need to stop multiplying at our unsustainable and ridiculous rate.

And frankly, there are so many human children, and so few of these gorillas that honestly...part of me thinks they should have saved the gorilla instead of the child.

 

[BeekeeperBetty]

This is a terrible situation all around.

I've got kids, and we have been to zoos of course. We live near a world famous one at that. I do take my eyes off little ones sometimes. Say you're walking along with your kids at the zoo and one of them falls and scrapes a knee. Of course you go over to soothe and check on the injured child. In that space of time another one could wander off. What I can't figure out is how the heck that kid could get in the enclosure. None of the zoos I have been to have enclosures that are accessible to a 3-4 year old. Something seems off there. To me this seems like less of a bad parenting issue and more of a bad zoo issue. It should not be so easy for a very young child to get in the enclosures with potentially dangerous animals. I mean, seriously, I've been to petting zoos that are impossible for a 3-4 year old to get in to, and presumably, they want the kids petting the goats.

 

[Matata]

Agree with all you said Gypsy. But we're not going to voluntarily curb ourselves in any way. It will take a series of events with catastrophic outcomes to even gain modicum of our attention. My solace is that mother nature will teach us a lesson we won't be able to ignore. Those lessons started a while ago and are ramping up in intensity. HIV, ebola, dengue fever, zika, antibiotc resistant ecoli, global warming and whatever that brings forth from organisms that survived eons frozen in ice. Humanity's numbers are going to be reduced the hard way.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[arkieb1]

People with children go to zoos to look at animals with small children. The mother of the young boy that got into the enclosure had a baby and a couple of other kids, if you have a crying baby or a baby in general to deal with it's easy for me to see why she could have taken her eyes off her son for a few moments...... Some more of what has been written;

"Some say the zoo is at fault for what happened. One group has lodged an official complaint with the US Department of Agriculture saying the Cincinnati Zoo is responsible for the gorilla's death by failing to provide adequate safety barriers between people and animals. In a press conference on Tuesday, a spokesperson from Stop Animal Exploitation Now (SAEN) said that the zoo "violated several parts of the animal welfare act" by failing to construct "adequate physical barriers."

"The public needs to understand what they're supporting when they go to facilities like this" he added. "They're not designed to be in the best interests of the animals. They are designed for people to look at animals."

The non-profit watchdog group has filed a complaint with the USDA containing its alleged violations, and claim the zoo has been cited twice recently for safety and enclosure issues.

Another group, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), said the zoo's enclosure was not sufficient to keep animals and people separated, and that it should have had a "secondary barrier."

"This tragedy is exactly why PETA urges families to stay away from any facility that displays animals as sideshows for humans to gawk at," said primatologist Julia Gallucci, said in the statement."


The fact this zoo has been cited for safety issues before rings alarm bells. The zoo failed in it's duty of care here for the child and family AND for the animals it should be protecting.

 

[Gypsy]

Agree with all you said Gypsy. But we're not going to voluntarily curb ourselves in any way. It will take a series of events with catastrophic outcomes to even gain modicum of our attention. My solace is that mother nature will teach us a lesson we won't be able to ignore. Those lessons started a while ago and are ramping up in intensity. HIV, ebola, dengue fever, zika, antibiotc resistant ecoli, global warming and whatever that brings forth from organisms that survived eons frozen in ice. Humanity's numbers are going to be reduced the hard way.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I agree with you too. Nature has been losing the fight against advances in medicine and technology. But that won't last forever, she'll figure out a way to whittle us down to size. It's just a matter of time.

Hopefully when she does, it won't be in a way that harms the animals. It will be in way that affects only us. And that way the balance between man and nature can be righted.

I laugh and laugh when I see people preaching that all these threats are humanity's punishment for gays, abortion... whatever the wrong headed bigoted thing they blame is. When really it's the 'be fruitful and multiply' of it all that's signed our collective death warrants. Man is not the center of the world, of existence. And we will learn that lesson, just as our ancestors did. It's just a matter of time.

 

[momhappy]

I heard on the news this morning that the family of the boy will be the focus of an investigation. Cincinnati police said that their review "is only regarding the actions of the parents/family that led up to the incident and not related to the operation or safety of the Cincinnati Zoo." After the review, they will determine of charges need to be filed.
I'm curious if the investigation would have occurred anyways or if it was prompted by the outrage over the incident?

 

[rainydaze]

Agree with all you said Gypsy. But we're not going to voluntarily curb ourselves in any way. It will take a series of events with catastrophic outcomes to even gain modicum of our attention. My solace is that mother nature will teach us a lesson we won't be able to ignore. Those lessons started a while ago and are ramping up in intensity. HIV, ebola, dengue fever, zika, antibiotc resistant ecoli, global warming and whatever that brings forth from organisms that survived eons frozen in ice. Humanity's numbers are going to be reduced the hard way.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I agree with you too. Nature has been losing the fight against advances in medicine and technology. But that won't last forever, she'll figure out a way to whittle us down to size. It's just a matter of time.

Hopefully when she does, it won't be in a way that harms the animals. It will be in way that affects only us. And that way the balance between man and nature can be righted.

I laugh and laugh when I see people preaching that all these threats are humanity's punishment for gays, abortion... whatever the wrong headed bigoted thing they blame is. When really it's the 'be fruitful and multiply' of it all that's signed our collective death warrants. Man is not the center of the world, of existence. And we will learn that lesson, just as our ancestors did. It's just a matter of time.

Couldn't agree more with both of you.

The hard part for humans is that we have the ability to know in advance and understand the threats we face. Enter fear. And that fear, I think, paves the way for the notion that we are superior and gives us a way to justify our bad behavior. If we believe we are superior, or somehow more valuable, it offers and excuse for what we do and it calms our fears, i.e. a superior species will find a way around suffering, around nature, around obliteration.

 

[CJ2008]

I heard on the news this morning that the family of the boy will be the focus of an investigation. Cincinnati police said that their review "is only regarding the actions of the parents/family that led up to the incident and not related to the operation or safety of the Cincinnati Zoo." After the review, they will determine of charges need to be filed.
I'm curious if the investigation would have occurred anyways or if it was prompted by the outrage over the incident?

If there was negligence on the family's part - which we already touched on if she had too many kids to be able to properly supervise them - I hope they get charged and fined too. If there was negligence, and their actions directly or indirectly contributed to what happened, they should be fined. Along with the zoo.

It's unfortunate for them because it's one of those things where you needed everything lined up for what happened to have happened. Because I'm sure there have been plenty of times families have not properly watched their kids but because of luck, circumstances, etc. nothing happened.

But this time it did.

 

[stracci2000]

Well we are total shitheads now and I don't think zoos do all that. What they do, in my opinion, is make children think that humanity has the right, because of our virus like 'might', to enslave these animals and lock them away for our own enjoyment. That these animals exist for OUR benefit. Instead of teaching children that the earth is not humanity's play ground, that we have to SHARE it and that we are responsible for preserving it, and that these animals exist for their own benefit, and that our role is to make sure they continue to exist IN THE WILD and to leave them the heck alone to do what they will, without our interference.

And yes, a lot of their habitats have been destroyed. So what needs to happen is that we need to find away to recreate them and give these creatures back what we've stolen from them.

And to do that we need to stop multiplying at our unsustainable and ridiculous rate.

*****And frankly, there are so many human children, and so few of these gorillas that honestly...part of me thinks they should have saved the gorilla instead of the child.********

Yes, these gorilla's numbers are very few. Four year old boys are a dime a dozen. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

 

[marymm]

I'm sad about the gorilla, the only true innocent in this cluster-f*ck of a tragedy.

 

[Arcadian]

So I read through this. I don't have children for a reason, I'll state that right up front. I will also state that I understand exactly where @Chrono was coming from. Life is life.

This incident was a tragic amount of events, some of which could have been avoided (maybe on both sides, I don't know until the dust clears) that resulted in an animal get killed through no fault of his own.

Its an emotional thing to have happen but IMO, the dust needs to settle on this one first.

 

[junebug17]

I am absolutely horrified by the some of the responses in this thread - well, I AM a mother and I cannot fathom making another mother watch as her child is torn limb from limb right in front of her. Are you all insane, or high, or something? What where people supposed to do, just hang out and watch as a human being, a child -who, by the way, is innocent in this too - was slowly and brutally killed right in front of them?

I love animals, and I'm very sorry this beautiful creature had to be destroyed - but I'm scared sh!tless by people who think the child shouldn't have been saved.

Four year old boys are a dime a dozen????? What the…

 

[msop04]

*****And frankly, there are so many human children, and so few of these gorillas that honestly...part of me thinks they should have saved the gorilla instead of the child.********

Yes, these gorilla's numbers are very few. Four year old boys are a dime a dozen. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Okay... I understand loving animals, the importance of treating them humanely, and showing compassion for them. I also agree that we, as humans, do not do those things well at all. I don't particularly like circuses. I have no desire to go to them, because I feel they are cruel. I don't quite feel the same about zoos.

I have always had pets, and they live the life, let me tell you! My cats were my first children. I have a 16 year old kitty and an 8 year old kitty. They think they are human because I have pretty much treated them that way. I love them. I also love humans more and value human life above the life of any animal. Period.

I also agree that both the mother, and particularly the zoo, are at fault in this situation. It's a terrible thing that happened, and I wish that it didn't... but it did. I also feel it was handled in the appropriate way by the zoo staff. They had to save the boy's life, regardless of the why's and how's of everything.

But... are you ladies serious? ...or is this merely showboating and/or being argumentative? I sincerely hope that's the case. As a mother (and one who isn't all googly-eyed over kids except my own, believe me), I'm shocked and saddened by statements such as these.

If you truly feel this way, I hope that you are never EVER responsible for the care of another human being in any capacity.

 

[momhappy]

^I agree. You don't have to be a parent to value a human life. I'm horrified that anyone would say that 4 year-old boys are a dime a dozen...

I watched an interview with a witness today. She said that the boy had asked several times if he could go in (to the enclosure) and see the monkeys. She said that in the 60 SECONDS that the mother turned her back, the boy was in the enclosure. I realize that we all make mistakes (and none of us can predict the future), but 60 seconds is a fairly long time to turn your back on a head-strong, savvy toddler who had been begging to go in.... Again, I'm not necessarily saying that the parents were negligent, but something failed (likely a combination of a faulty enclosure and a lack of appropriate parenting given the circumstances) and I suppose that's what the investigation intends to address. The end result is still the same, however, and it will remain (in my mind) an unfortunate accident.

 

[Arcadian]

@junebug, I think many, myself included, think that the zoo did the most responsible thing they COULD do, given what happened.

IMO both sides bear responsibility in this chain, but I'm personally in favor of letting the dust settle a bit. Who's fault is it that set this in motion? I honestly don't know, its why I'm willing to wait.

What may be important to you (general you), may not be so important to someone else. It doesn't make them "high", it just means they have a different set of priorities.

Are we really right to kill an endangered species in favor of one that isn't? Or do we "save our own"? For some thats like asking if we should allow women to abort or not. Because for some at the time of that abortion, the thing that grows within a woman's body is a life. In that instance do we save our own? Or do we rely on someone else to make that decision?

Where does the line get drawn at "life" and who is the ultimate arbitrator to make the decision of which life is more important than the other? That question has been asked and answered with some (interesting to me) answers.

IMO this is hot button topic but maybe too hot for this board.