When enough is enough - mental illness

[azstonie]

Its tough, Queenie. I feel for those of us here who have family members with mental illness, particularly violent or controlling mental illnesses.

I try to remember: If a crisis is in the natural course of events, its not our job to prevent the crisis.

One thing about attending therapy with a narcissist or borderline: Not advisable. All it does is highlight your buttons for them to push, establishes the bull's eye, basically. I particularly do not believe in family therapy UNTIL AND UNLESS the ill family member has consistently attended their OWN therapy and then has a clearly elucidated reason for wanting YOU to attend therapy with them. And if they have that reason and you run with it, a different therapist other than the one who treats them (or you).

 

[Queenie60]

Good advise azstonie - I agree with what you are saying. We have had family therapy, through last fall however it was merely a chance for our son to "grandstand" and state all of the reasons why everything is the fault of his father and I. We finally became tired of wasting our time and our money so we quit going. I'm offering this up for the sake of my husband. He's a wonderful man and a wonderful father and all he wants is for everyone to get along. I'm most certain that our son will decline the offer of the therapy. He doesn't want to get well - he's not ready

 

[Queenie60]

Update: Hi everyone, it's been a while. I am still estranged from my son, we haven't spoken since March when he tried breaking my door down. My husband does speak to him so I do know that he continues to "function." Our home is peaceful, and our daughter is home from college, keeping herself very busy. I did receive a threatening text from my son on Mother's Day - telling me that I am dead by the end of the year. If he's looking for attention from me, this is not the way to get it. My heart aches daily and I hope that one day we can reunite in a peaceful way. I do love him enough to let him go if this is what he wishes for. I continue to pray and hope that one day things will be ok. Thank you for listening lovely PS ladies!

 

[PintoBean]

Hugs, {{{Queenie60}}}

 

[december-fire]

Queenie,

Its heartbreaking knowing what you're going through. All we want is for our children to be healthy and happy. I'm so sorry that your son is struggling with an illness that causes him to say and do hurtful and threatening things to those who love him and just want what's best for him.

Sending positive thoughts and prayers that things will improve.

Meanwhile, look after yourself, enjoy time with your daughter, and stay safe.

Big hugs

 

[AGBF]

I did receive a threatening text from my son on Mother's Day - telling me that I am dead by the end of the year. If he's looking for attention from me, this is not the way to get it. My heart aches daily and I hope that one day we can reunite in a peaceful way. I do love him enough to let him go if this is what he wishes for.

I doubt that being "let go", being estranged, is really what your son wishes for, but he appears to have so much rage that close interaction is currently impossible. The last few weeks with my daughter have been impossible because her attempts to diet have made her rage even greater than usual. I think it is beyond the bounds of an ordinary person's vision to imagine the range of narcissism and rage that is possible for an individual with bi-polar disorder to have. The demands that he feels he can make and the acts with which he feels he can get away with impunity would boggle anyone's mind.

Our children are not easy.

Very, very big hugs,
(((Queenie)))
Deb

 

[Queenie60]

Thank you ladies - I appreciate your hugs and empathy. I agree Deb - bipolar disorder is very complicated, especially when untreated or treated improperly with lots of marijuana and who knows what else at this point. Feels good to vent a little. Thank you.

 

[kgizo]

I'm sorry to hear that, Queenie. I'm glad you and your husband are able to support each other through this difficult time. Wishing you peace and better times ahead.

 

[kmarla]

Queenie, I am so very sorry to hear this. You must be feeling terrible stress and worry. I'm sending you lots of (((hugs))) and thinking of you during this difficult time. I hope that your son will start to recognize how much harm he is causing to everyone, including himself, and will begin to be open to professional support and medication if required. You deserve to have some peace!!

 

[Queenie60]

Thank you Kmarla. How are things going with your daughter? I think about you from time to time.

 

[Jambalaya]

I'm so, so sorry Queenie. This must be completely heart-breaking for you. I am really glad for you that you have your daughter. What a saving grace that must be. Many hugs xxx

 

[Queenie60]

Thank you Jambalaya. I do feel as though I only have one child - it's strange to feel this way especially because we were once so very close. Mental illness knows no boundaries. Maybe one day.........

 

[kmarla]

Hi Queenie! Here's a little update. Things are gradually improving for our daughter. Her new medications seem to be working well for now and she is stable again. We know from past history that this can change very quickly, but we are all hopeful that she will continue to do well with this medication. She seems content in her new place and gets along well with her roommates. She is not back working yet, and honestly we don't know the truth of that situation. One version is that she was fired, the other is that she is on a wait list for new clients as the casual employees' clients were transferred to full time employees. Sadly we have lots of experience in learning not to always trust what we are being told. While working is good for her, even if only a few hours a week, making sure she's stable and ready is more important. She has registered for some cooking classes and some sports activities, so she will be filling her time with some useful and fun activities She is calling more often and coming for visits with us and she's friendly and polite when she's here. I keep the visits to a few hours max so that I don't get overwhelmed. Last visit we had a chance to talk a bit about her last meltdown. She doesn't seem to understand herself what happened. She knows she was out of control and said it felt like a switch just flipped inside. Her psychiatrist confirmed she was hypomanic. She seems to have a good bond with him and is keeping her appointments, which is all positive.
I'm doing okay, but I don't think I've really recovered yet. I get anxious when she wants to visit because I don't feel completely safe around her anymore. We've been dealing with these episodes for over ten years, and I think it's the cumulative effect that is getting to me more than any one episode. My husband and I both feel so much calmer now that she isn't living here anymore. Our older daughter says the difference is night and day. Big positives are that I'm not getting yelled at or sworn at anymore. She's not able to steal from us anymore. DH and I are in the middle of the f2 course right now and it is helping as well. We still worry about our daughter...that will never change, but we're learning to let go of things we can't control. I'm able to spend a lot more time with my older daughter, which I really cherish. So while things aren't perfect, I'm really grateful for where we're at right now.

 

[Queenie60]

So glad for you Kmarla - it will never be perfect but just having that relationship with her is nice. I hope that one day I can be there with my son. My husband saw him yesterday and said that when they parted my son actually gave him a hug. In the past he wouldn't even shake his hand. Progress, though very small is worth something. I am so lucky to have a patient, well balanced husband - he keeps the connection going with our son and I am grateful for that small connection. Take care and I hope things continue to get better for you.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ugh, Queenie, what a mother's day. {{{hugs}}}

 

[AGBF]

So glad for you Kmarla - it will never be perfect but just having that relationship with her is nice. I hope that one day I can be there with my son. My husband saw him yesterday and said that when they parted my son actually gave him a hug. In the past he wouldn't even shake his hand.

I am really happy for that, Queenie. I do hope that one day it will happen for your son and you, too. Please do not give up before a miracle. As I say to my daughter, they may find a cure.

Big hugs,
Deb

 

[House Cat]

Diamondseeker,

Antidepressants and bipolar disorder. This is a controversial topic. When I was first diagnosed, 20+ years ago, they were handing out antidepressants like candy to anyone who was a little bit sad. This is how I found out I had bipolar disorder in the first place. Thank you Effexor! I took the medication for quite some time, but little did I know that the good feelings I was having were actually hypomania. Then the risky behavior set in. Then things got worse. A year and a half later, I was completely manic.

The problem is that Effexor takes time to wean. It took me four months to wean from that medication. Now they know better. They prescribe prozac to people when they wean off Effexor.

I have had several instances of mania with antidepressants that have caused me grave harm.

Bipolar depression isn't like unipolar depression. Bipolar disorder isn't unipolar depression with mania tacked onto it. It is a completely different animal. If you look at it this way, it might help to see that antidepressants might not be good medication for this disorder. Bipolar disorder (as you know) is mood swings and needs mood stabilizers. Antidepressants induce powerful mood swings in people with bipolar disorder.

*there are always exceptions. There is always the person who has bipolar II, who runs completely depressed all of the time, who has only had one hypomania ever and absolutely need antidepressants.

Understand that people with bipolar disorder should avoid anything that causes mood swings, booze, pot, recreational drugs, medications that cause swings, trauma, unhealthy lifestyles, etc. Bipolar disorder kindles. The more swings you have, the more you will have and the more powerful they become.

http://psycheducation.org/antidepressants-in-bipolar-disorder-the-controversies/
This article is updated 2014. I like it because it covers both points of view, staying on the antidepressant and reasons for coming off.

There are other articles that are older that state that antidepressant use for people with bipolar disorder are perfectly safe. I have to wonder who is funding those articles.

What it boils down to is the individual. Is that person stable? If the person is extremely unstable and taking an antidepressant with a bipolar diagnosis, the antidepressant would be the first thing to scrutinize. That and any lifestyle choices. But, because antidepressants can be so powerful, they can also cause self-medication...

sigh.

One other thing that I would like to reveal. I may have said this before, I am not sure. I take a lot of meds. I am currently taking three mood stabilizers and an antipsychotic. I just had to add Lithium because I was having a VERY rough time with fixated, practically delusional thoughts, which are always a precursor to mania. The trigger? This election and fear for all of us.

I am telling you this because, although the meds don't do everything, they definitely have the power to help or hinder. When I take the wrong meds, they can affect everything. I have done some very regretful things while taking antidepressants because they caused mania...like running up $25000 in credit. On the flipside, I know that once this Lithium kicks in, my obsessed worries will completely calm down. I also know that I will have to take Lithium forever. I hate it, but it is necessary. There is also the feeling of knowing how much you've suffered, once you get on a medication that is working. Nothing is ever 100%. But many of us will take 50%.

I hope that I have given you some information that is relevant to you and your son. If you guys decide to get him off his antidepressant (effexor?) you might want to consider another go at finding a psychiatrist. Angie's list has doctor's reviews. They aren't hugely active in my area, but maybe they are in your area?


I hope I didn't come off like I am lecturing. I just wanted to get this out there. <3

 

[AGBF]

House Cat-

I am really glad you posted, although I am not sure that this is the right thread for me to be venting in. (I do not think that there is another one already open that is more appropriate, however.) When my daughter was hospitalized recently for two weeks she underwent extensive psychological testing. I got a copy of the testing and her diagnosis from the psychiatric hospital. It came in the mail yesterday. It has caused me concern although I have told myself that the reality is what it is and what someone writes on paper has no effect on reality.

I have no one with whom to discuss her situation or what has been written about her or her history. Her diagnosis from the same hospital where the testing was done is at odds with what the psychologist doing the testing concluded.* Some of the things the psychologist wrote were incredibly insightful; some were totally off the mark to the point of absurdity. The psychologist overlooked important things about my daughter's development that I could have explained, but I wasn't there to explain them. Reading the testing frustrated me. But I was really looking for information, and I didn't get any conclusive information.

My best friend, who was my confidante, is in very ill health. Her son is bi-polar and she and I share many of the same concerns. However she is now incommunicado much of the time. Without her and without my parents to talk with, I feel I have no one who is insightful and knowledgeable about my daughter's history with whom to discuss something like this report.

I really feel on my own and alone. I like being able to share here, at least. I know that people here are truly familiar with mental illness.

Deb

*I do not mean to make a mystery of this. The psychologist wrote pages and pages about her, concluding that she was undergoing an episode of major depression and was at considerable risk for suicide and little risk for alcohol or drug abuse. He thought she had never had a hypomanic episode in her life and had no psychotic features. But the hospital diagnosis came back as Bi-polar I and her medications remained the same, including all the mood stabilizers, like Lithium and Latuda, that her psychiatrist had had her on before she went into the hospital.

 

[Queenie60]

Hi Deb - I am sorry that you're feeling alone with this; I am feeling alone as well. I feel that my close friends are tired of hearing about my son's mental illness. Currently, he is living out of our home and on his own. He has recently lost his job and hasn't been honest as to why this happened. I'm guessing his moodiness was the cause, his untreated mental illness. His cat is living in our home and the cat is very ill and close to passing away. This has been an issue for the past few weeks - he's using the cat to "hold us hostage." He refuses to put the cat down. I am hoping that he finds his way at some point and takes the help offered to him. My heart goes out to you - I do know what you're feeling and you're not alone. Take care Deb.

Martha

 

[kmarla]

House Cat, I always find your posts so helpful and educational. Thank you for sharing. Our daughter is now on Lithium and it really seems to be helping her. She told me she is on the maximum possible dosage. She is also taking a med to help with anxiety. Sorry I can't think of the name.
Deb and Queenie, please don't think you're alone. You're not! I haven't posted for a bit, but you're in my thoughts. I don't talk a lot with others either about my daughter. Just because the crisis is over, people in my life seem to think all is well. But I know you guys know better. Deb, I've spent the last two weeks going through our storage room in the basement, doing a massive purge. I've also been clearing out the file cabinet going through all the medical history, psychiatrist and psychological reports and hospital reports about our daughter. I have been getting lost in the past reading them all again. I am amazed at the number of factual errors, contradictions etc I noticed. Like you, I wondered why they didn't just ask me if they needed info. Overall though, they describe our daughter pretty well. Looking back now, I'm surprised no one ever hinted at bipolar in those earlier reports. In hindsight the evidence was there. I don't know if our daughter would let us see any current reports about her though.

Queenie, I'm so sorry that things are still difficult for you. And that poor cat I hope that things will change for the better for you and your son soon. Make sure you take care of yourself along the way and enjoy the people who want to be with you and love and cherish you. That has helped me so much and I love that I spend more time with my older daughter.
I set boundaries that I need for myself with J. I tell her if I'm not up to a visit from her, or that we need to change the subject when she's upsetting me. Her latest news is that she plans to fly to Australia to meet her new boyfriend she met online. She has no money at all to manage this, never mind travelling by herself. Oh, and of course she planned to do this while we're on our cruise. DH and I convinced her to have him come here for a visit a bit later instead. He doesn't have the challenges she has. I realize that this is how it will always be with her. It's how she rolls. She's always coming up with grandiose plans of some sort or another. I see her about once a month or so, and talk or e-mail every couple of weeks. Certainly not every day. I think this is likely how things will continue. I'm feeling like this is what I can manage for now. She's still not working, but I got her to sign up again for some more activities..aquafit, cooking classes etc to fill her days. I'm starting to feel more like myself again. I have surgery next Monday and go home Tuesday. We fly out for our cruise in October and I can't wait. I feel like the sun is finally starting to shine again in our lives. I was so afraid of how our life would change. It's different now, but I think better in the end. This change needed to happen.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Deb, I am always around if you ever need to talk. (((hugs)))

 

[random_thought]

I'm just popping in to say that I'll be following this thread. Bi-polar and generalized anxiety over here.

 

[minousbijoux]

I think the hardest part with my son is that he is so up and down, and that I keep naively assuming he's grown out of it. Then, when he has a bad time, and I am once again evil/wrong/stupid/hateful to him, I catch myself spiraling down. I have to remember its a marathon, not a sprint and that he is separate from me and I can still strive to find happiness...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hi, random thought!

Housecat, thank you for your reply. I am sorry I am just now seeing it. My son takes Seroquel and Effexor. He did try to slowly wean himself off of the Effexor, but he was severely depressed and had to go back on it. I don't know if it would have been any different if they had switched over to Prozac or not, and whether he could have weaned off that. Meds are one giant experiment, and I can say that my son has never really felt good enough to have any normalcy in his life. So you are taking Lithium in addition to another mood stabilizer? I wonder if that might help him? He took that early on but was later switched to the Seroquel.

I hope all of you ladies are okay. This is indeed an endless marathon for most of us. I might start a private FB group if anyone is interested, because I keep thinking that a public forum is not the best place to be discussing this.

 

[Queenie60]

That would be good DS - I do not have a fb account. Is there a way to have a private fb account that people can not see? I do not like to make myself too public as we live in a small town and I am sure that I am often "googled" by many to find out what Bob and I are up to. Maybe I am too private and paranoid!! Anyway, things are ok with our son. He is still living outside of the house, we forced him to take the sick cat to his place as I just couldn't watch the poor cat suffer any longer. He tells Bob that the cat is doing ok. I don't want to know about it. I can see him slowly declining. I fear that he may eventually just "exist" - many thanks to all of you for your support.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Queenie, I have a separate FB account for my jewelry hobby and the name is not my real one. So you could be Queenie Price or something like that if you wanted. Many of us have alternate emails with our PS name at gmail or something (you have to use an email address for FB). So you could browse at jewelry and be in some private PS groups either regarding jewelry or some other interests like pets or this topic if we start one. But even the group I am proposing would be private and not visible to anyone outside the group. I found a need to have a separate account primarily because I wanted to see and be able to like photos posted by different diamond and jewelry vendors, and that was problematic on my regular account because others can see the things you click "like" on! Better to keep my hobby private since most friends outside of PS wouldn't understand it!

I am glad things are okay with your son. Sometimes okay is actually great because it is better than the alternative. I can relate.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Deb--

Recently. I had an incident with my son,( not involving me directly) that generated a psych report from a shrink that had incorrect information in it, that concerned me. I plan to write to the Dr, with my sons permission, and ask him to correct his records. I have some back-up proof and hope I get a response. It is important info.

If I were you, I would arrange a short appointment with the DR and talk to him or her about your concerns. You may need your daughters permission.

Annette

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I will agree, Deb, that evaluations without getting a full report from a parent or significant other are extremely narrow in focus and often incomplete or incorrect. We experienced that MANY times until I got smarter and made sure I provided detailed written information prior to him talking to anyone.

I think most parents on this thread feel totally alone. It is a great burden to carry. {{{hugs}}}

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Important, please read

I have started a private FB group for those who'd like to continue to have discussion and support but who really do not want to continue posting here on a public forum.

You will need to go to Loupetroop and find my listing to contact me (not through LT but I give my contact info). At the moment it is on the first page of LT. You will need to give me your PS name and your FB name so I can add you to the group.

I really hope all of you who have been active on this thread will join, because some of us really have no one locally who understands.

 

[Queenie60]

Thank you DS - sent an email to you via loupetroop.