Leon Mege's website blasts the HCA

[kenny]

He loves Pricescope too:

https://leonmege.com/revelations/item/194-leon-mege-consumer-feedback

(scroll down about halfway)

Methinks he doth protest too much about not ever having aliases on Pricescope...

Wow.
Classy!



SNIP:
Pricescope shopper undercover online

Pricescope

Well established online community dedicated to the discussion of jewelry, diamonds, and gemstones is an important source of diamond information, latest jewelry news and social interactions with like minded people. We are grateful for the wonderful support we have enjoyed through the years and our fans of Leon Mege always receive a special treatment when they order jewelry to be made. We support Pricescope’s somewhat futile efforts to educate and provide a forum for those who are eager to learn.

In an ideal world, the Pricescope forums would be a consumer safe haven, free of marketing and hustlers. It is a murky watering hole of true fans of jewelry mixing it up with anonymous hustlers of all sorts. Unfortunately, what started as a useful social and educational public forum deteriorated into a pungent pool of patrimonious regulars dishing out advice to confused newbies, self appointed “experts” on the prowl for a quick buck without getting out of their pajamas, paid shills stumping for the highest payer, professional marketers - all sifting murky waters of consumer’s naivety and ignorance.

Pricescope chat rooms could become quite rowdy with poorly moderated insults flying left and right, mob mentality prevailing and any statement, no matter how ignorant, immediately becomes a fact. It’s completely anonymous and free for all. A session of British Parliament on crystal meth would look idyllic in comparison.

Leon Mege has never participated, nor he will ever participate in any Pricescope discussions. Leon Mege has never posted as much as a single letter on any subject and he never will. For those interested in Leon Mege opinion and thoughts, there is a better way to learn it - our web site. Leon Mege could be easily reached by phone at 212-768-3868 or by Skype.

Any thoughts expressed by Pricescope users as well as any facts, real or imagined, are never expressed or influenced by Leon Mege. All employees of Leon Mege, Inc. are explicitly prohibited from using Pricescope as forum for their thoughts and feelings in their official capacity or in their private life.

Unlike other “vendors” permeating Pricescope forums, we do not employ spokespeople, marketers, sale reps, experts, etc. announced or undercover, we do not employ shills, fake accounts or any other despicable sleazy activity that we know unfortunately is taking place. We support the Pricescope administration in its uphill battle to expose, block, and extradite those who abuse the trust of the community.

 

[Niel]

Leon Mege has never participated

And I'm the Queen of England

 

[lovedogs]

SNIP:
....Leon Mege has never participated, nor he will ever participate in any Pricescope discussions. Leon Mege has never posted as much as a single letter on any subject and he never will.....Unlike other “vendors” permeating Pricescope forums, we do not employ spokespeople, marketers, sale reps, experts, etc. announced or undercover, we do not employ shills, fake accounts or any other despicable sleazy activity that we know unfortunately is taking place. We support the Pricescope administration in its uphill battle to expose, block, and extradite those who abuse the trust of the community.

hahahahaha, couldn't be less accurate here. I am relatively new to the forum, but after seeing all of the BS from him there's no way I would ever recommend him to anyone.

 

[Tourmaline]

So, seriously, WHY is Leon Mege endorsed by PS? When I won one of the 2015 Holiday $1000 Gift vouchers, he was one of the vendors on the list. Is it because he pays for advertising here? If so, why is it allowed? He has posted extremely hateful content on his website against PS. So, why is he still endorsed? Because he makes pretty jewelry? Not enough of a reason.

 

[egemnoel]

Hello all,


Bear with me as I turn this around for a moment.


Let’s imagine Leon Mege created his own HCA, but it analysed jewelry workmanship (I will call it the MJA). No doubt the MJA would enforce very high standards. No doubt the MJA would reject a lot of cast and mass-produced settings. No doubt the MJA would call some custom-work out there borderline, or worse. I bet this would seriously irritate companies who don’t reach Leon’s standards. I bet those sellers would call the MJA a fraud.


The above is fantasy but might explain Leon’s position on the HCA. He’s a jewelry artisan and provides the highest quality in that area. His audience has sought him out for the setting. To have them come back after reading PS, rejecting a diamond he started making a setting for must be a distraction. I’m not saying it’s proper, just trying to understand.


I surgically sought the highest level of jewelry craftsmanship. I used Leon and could not be happier. The setting detail and execution is astonishing. I also sought out the highest performing and technical level of diamond craftsmanship. I chose a Crafted by Infinity diamond and could not be happier. Leon had no problem placing that Crafted by Infinity in the setting he created for me. He did not have to do this but voiced respect for CBI and my wishes.


That is why I think this webpage is an angry reaction coming from an “artistic” place. Leon surely understands there are people who are as-picky with diamonds as he is with settings. I’m one of those people, and he worked with me, but I’m admittedly farther into extremes than most. It’s a blessing and a curse.

 

[Niel]

Hello all,


Bear with me as I turn this around for a moment.


Let’s imagine Leon Mege created his own HCA, but it analysed jewelry workmanship (I will call it the MJA). No doubt the MJA would enforce very high standards. No doubt the MJA would reject a lot of cast and mass-produced settings. No doubt the MJA would call some custom-work out there borderline, or worse. I bet this would seriously irritate companies who don’t reach Leon’s standards. I bet those sellers would call the MJA a fraud.


The above is fantasy but might explain Leon’s position on the HCA. He’s a jewelry artisan and provides the highest quality in that area. His audience has sought him out for the setting. To have them come back after reading PS, rejecting a diamond he started making a setting for must be a distraction. I’m not saying it’s proper, just trying to understand.


I surgically sought the highest level of jewelry craftsmanship. I used Leon and could not be happier. The setting detail and execution is astonishing. I also sought out the highest performing and technical level of diamond craftsmanship. I chose a Crafted by Infinity diamond and could not be happier. Leon had no problem placing that Crafted by Infinity in the setting he created for me. He did not have to do this but voiced respect for CBI and my wishes.


That is why I think this webpage is an angry reaction coming from an “artistic” place. Leon surely understands there are people who are as-picky with diamonds as he is with settings. I’m one of those people, and he worked with me, but I’m admittedly farther into extremes than most. It’s a blessing and a curse.

I'm going to disagree.

The quality of someone's work would be one thing, you can't choose how talented you are. But you can choose to work with the best product available. Not necessarily saying the hca results in picking the "best product available", but to compare someone's work to someone's product is different becuase he is not directly cutting the stones he is directly making the jewelry pieces

I think the hca has its place. When I'm buying from blue Nile I want to look at a diamond 100 different ways to cut our any chance of buying a dud.
But we rely too heavily on it I think. You buy an asscher or an old cut becuase of the way it "makes [us] feel", with general guidelines and visual confirmation - but a modern round we take parameters set by one person 10 years ago and that hca and say "you saw this in person and liked it?! Don't buy it it's a 2.7!". I'm sure any seller in that instance would be cross, he's just gone the extra step to be a dick about it. There's an easier solution, the buyer doesn't like the specs of the diamond you have? Find them another one that does. Just a thought

 

[MollyMalone]

* * *As to the boob stuff, he's appealing to a clientele that spends big big bucks on buxom women..

That's certainly one possible explanation for Ms. Tranquility
https://leonmege.com/resources-jewelry-secrets/rules-of-engagement/tranquility-program

Wow! This was very surprising!
Isn't Mege a PS sponsor?
Isn't Garry Holloway part owner of PS? * * *

IIRC the HCA rant is not a new page; rather, it's been updated to incorporate a reference to The Donald. The scornful page about PS is one of long standing. Based on such pages, his responses to less-than-glowing Yelp reviews, etc. LM seems to delight in being an enfant terrible.

P.S. I believe LM's advertising-sponsor privileges were suspended for quite some time by the PS administrators awhile back; I mean, I would swear there were many months -- after arkieb posted in late 2013 of her experiences with him (and she was not the only PSer who had suffered at his hands) -- when his ads were not appearing here & he wasn't listed in the roster of PS sponsors.

 

[arkieb1]

Leon claims he has never posted a single thing on P/S yet he has been banned on here multiple times for using multiple false or fake identities to attack his own customers or to defend the reprehensible things he does. This is the big problem with dealing with him, he is a genuine liar prone to attacks of the odd, sarcastic and strange which he thinks is funny and a perfectly normal way to treat his customers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. He produces some beautiful work, most of his stones even without HCS are beautiful as well, there is no need for a person of his calibre to carry on like this. The simple truth is that most people on here have stopped endorsing Leon because his own erratic behaviour, he is like a box of chocolates, you never know which Leon on any one day you are going to get.

 

[teobdl]

From the summary, here are few good points in my opinion:

- Not recognized by any gemological lab in the world

- Not used by professionals in the trade

- Obscure and unknown to most professionals

- The score is skewed towards an arbitrarily picked range of preferences

- The disclaimer renders the results meaningless

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

These are valid points and if made in a respected and professional manner would have really been more effective .

But he's boorish and crass and would rather lead with those "qualities"

IMO if these are valid points they should be treated as such, regardless of tone in delivery. Garry has addressed the issues of preference and the disclaimers many times, particularly in threads from about 10 years ago.

I think the question of why more professionals (ie sellers and cutters) don't use HCA has mostly to do with wanting to move product, and higher weight == more $$, which generally leads to sacrifices in cut quality. Still, it's curious that consumers, when buying diamonds, aren't more attuned to differences in cut... are these differences overblown by many on PS? To a certain extent, I think yes--in the real world, on the average, there is a bigger difference between a diamond that's been worn when doing dishes vs a clean diamond compared to the difference between a clean diamond that scores 2.5 on the HCA vs a clean one that scores 1.8. PSA: keep your diamonds clean. One might argue that the threshold for "evaluate further" and "pass" is set arbitrarily or at least very subjectively, particularly as sensitivity and specificity numbers have never been provided (to my knowledge).

 

[mrs-b]

Mrs. Blop, my comment is sort of not on topic but I LOVE your rings, I love your pictures and the style of your rings etc. Every ring you have ever posted, I wanted so keep posting, as to Mr. Mege and the HCA, I have never read in 3 years on this site any - whom I consider knowledgeable - person recommending the tool as a buy tool, just a way of eliminating some stones that may be not the best.. As to the boob stuff, he's appealing to a clientele that spends big big bucks on buxom women..

peace

Tekate -

Thank you so much for your kind words! There is no chance I'll stop expanding my collection and posting the results in PS! Without meaning to hijack Kenny's extremely relevant thread - I've just posted a couple of things in the engagement ring thread.

Enjoy!

 

[ccuheartnurse]

I can agree to what he has said about the HCA. We all know it's limitations. However, I'm dismayed at the tone he's taken with his rant. Come on Leon, you've been churning out gorgeous pieces that a lot of us drool about having. What about a bit of decorum? A little sensitivity & intelligent rebuttal as to why you disagree with the HCA.

All this "artistic" & he's "an artisan" crap is crap. There are some awesome artisans that don't dictate to their paying customers what they should & should not have or what the "artisan" will do or not.

To many who ask why he should post this and be a PS sponsor, I believe the fee is somewhere over $2k / month to advertise. Perhaps a bit more or a bit less, but thats a lot a money a year. Depends on how PS owners want to deal with this negative press. Clearly he doesn't need PS as much now as he has in the past. Perhaps now is the time to cut the umbilical cord.

Judy

 

[MarionC]

He seems mentally unbalanced and as such should either be ignored or pitied.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

He seems mentally unbalanced and as such should either be ignored or pitied.

+1

 

[Mayk]

I've always been terribly intimidated by him. I agree with Jimmeanne's comments above. It really is a shame because his work is truly beautiful, but I would never work with him. Also, when the choices for equally beautiful work are gracious and kind people like Victor Canera and Steven Kirsch there really is no reason to risk dealing with a mad man.

 

[Niel]

From the summary, here are few good points in my opinion:

- Not recognized by any gemological lab in the world

- Not used by professionals in the trade

- Obscure and unknown to most professionals

- The score is skewed towards an arbitrarily picked range of preferences

- The disclaimer renders the results meaningless

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

These are valid points and if made in a respected and professional manner would have really been more effective .

But he's boorish and crass and would rather lead with those "qualities"

IMO if these are valid points they should be treated as such, regardless of tone in delivery. Garry has addressed the issues of preference and the disclaimers many times, particularly in threads from about 10 years ago.

I think the question of why more professionals (ie sellers and cutters) don't use HCA has mostly to do with wanting to move product, and higher weight == more $$, which generally leads to sacrifices in cut quality. Still, it's curious that consumers, when buying diamonds, aren't more attuned to differences in cut... are these differences overblown by many on PS? To a certain extent, I think yes--in the real world, on the average, there is a bigger difference between a diamond that's been worn when doing dishes vs a clean diamond compared to the difference between a clean diamond that scores 2.5 on the HCA vs a clean one that scores 1.8. PSA: keep your diamonds clean. One might argue that the threshold for "evaluate further" and "pass" is set arbitrarily or at least very subjectively, particularly as sensitivity and specificity numbers have never been provided (to my knowledge).

I never said he didn't, my point is that if one disagrees with Garry, those are legitimate counterpoints. Garry then has answers to those counterpoints. OK.

To say it doesn't matter how he presents his counter argument is something I don't understand. He can say something like "the minutiae of the hca can eliminate stones that otherwise are very beautiful, with negligible performance difference" without insulting the person who believes in the helpfulness of the tool or the individuals who created it. His vulgarity and boorishness do him more a disservice than the basic message he's trying to get across and that's why the tone of his message matters.

 

[oldminer]

Wow, what a hot topic and thread of "interest". Certainly a stirred pot.

When Garry was working up the HCA, my thoughts went along the same lines but thousands of miles apart. What Garry did was attempt to quantify the results down to small segments, by 0.1 measured increments. My own efforts put the best and subsequent groups into a small pots without drawing further distinctions about selecting one over the other within each group. I did this, since I felt it didn't much matter with the concept of "If you can't really see the difference, there may be no meaningful difference." In the 1980s and 1990's no consumer was looking to go beyond what they could see and very few even cared about cut quality to any extent.

I do think the HCA when used in a way it was not intended to be used, does lead some consumers to over-eliminate diamonds from the competition as to what they ought to buy. Maybe this has caused Leon distress and likely has caused other vendors the same. Once a rejection tool becomes the selection tool, a line has been crossed. Using a low HCA result as a sales tool is not necessarily a good way for it to be used, yet there may be sellers and consumers who would like to simplify things in that way. It is not really a cure, but a mistake to do so.

What Garry showed to the world was that diamonds with somewhat shallow pavilion angles mated to somewhat higher crown angles happen to be a happy and beautiful category of round diamond cut that Tolkowsky parameters missed. It also proved that the Tolkowsky parameters and those closely related to them, also worked especially well when certain factors were adjusted to one another. All of this makes sense and cutters now recognize these factors.

Sometimes a tool can be misused or misunderstood by someone who spends nearly all their time becoming a master of something else. Diamond sellers may well be tempted to misuse a popular and simple tool. Craftsmen, like Leon, may misunderstand the motive or use of a tool because they have found it hurting their sales and have no real handle on what the tool actually is very good for and why folks use it apparently against him. That was not the purpose of the HCA to begin with and never was. There are plenty of diamonds which are very good looking stones with somewhat more than minimum HCA scores which are just fine examples of stones to consider buying. They don't "need" to be eliminated. In the end, a consumer should look at the diamond, not decide from the score of a rejection tool.

Have you ever met an "artiste" or just a plain "artist"" who was emotionally the same as a trained engineer, scientist, or business person? I don't believe I have so far in 68 years. We have different rhythms and vibes. Our hot and cold run at different temperatures. Personalities have to be adjusted to get along with those who run FM when we are on AM. What Leon has said seems rash, coarse and somewhat unfair. We ought to analyze why he got to this point. Is business way off? Is he blaming others for something he has no control over even if the blame is not their fault either? Is he just frustrated by the changing tastes and demands of knowledgeable consumers? It is a tough audience these days. Expectations can be unrealistic when combined with all the added knowledge available, but somewhat twisted by tricky sales tactics.

For sure, if Leon had no interest in Pricescope clients, he would not advertise for them. If he hated the site, he would take his advertising money and run. He is not a participant, at least not in the usual sense. This thread certainly has not put his conduct or attitude into a good place for readers. Maybe Leon should gather up his thoughts and write something less angry and more thoughtful. It could be that his "artiste" mode got the best of him and he regrets some of his hyperbole. It would be good to have a peaceful conversation where we can hope to graduate to understanding and respecting different positions. Consumers need guidance, need tools to assist themselves, and need information. They don't need dirt digging, needling, complaining and nasty rhetoric when nothing beneficial is being offered in its place. I do know it can be fun to poke the bear, but it cannot be productive long term.

 

[BeekeeperBetty]

I don't have a dog in the HCA fight. It sounds a lot like people not understanding the difference between screening tests and diagnostic tests, to look at this from a more medical point of view. They both have their place.

However, I do find the picture he used to be disturbing. He's equating middle easterners with swindlers. It's quite shocking to me.

 

[teobdl]

Oldminer post spotted in the wild!

Thank you for your great perspective on the topic.

I do think that the continuous scale of the HCA lends itself to misinterpretation and misuse. Your bucket idea would probably lead to more appropriate use and less grief from industry people who deal with repercussions of incomplete understanding among customers.

 

[kenny]

Hi Leon.

 

[Ella]

We're going to close this thread before namecalling gets out of hand.

For our banned consumer poster who keeps trying to post in this thread and has come back time after time, for years: We don't allow you to post because you refused to follow our policies and act civilly on the forum, despite years of warnings and time outs. Coming back every few weeks or months to bash us or PS members does not help your case.