Next move? Over graded

[msop04]

Let the OP buy his VS1 then and don't poo poo it. As a poster said, choose your diamond within Gypsy's guidelines, well the
original poster had a different choice but as usual here it was poo pooed. The people who have other choices than those
held by the majority of posters on this board don't allow the minority of posters to have their choice. Oh and maybe quality
was the wrong word I used as I see de beers calls it Value. So if people believe what is touted on here they are not getting
the best Value which is what this board is SUPPOSED to be about.

I believe the poster wants "eye clean" and has a budget. Paying unnecessarily for VS1 isn't value. People get scared about clarity and color because they've seen mall stones and they think anything less than VS won't be eye clean. This is why the others stressed better value in an eye clean SI... it's common sense.

Edit:

...also, the OP asked if VS1 is what he "should" be looking for -- not that it was what he desired.

 

[pyramid]

VS1 is valuable which is what De Beers means, as in worth more like rarity.

 

[msop04]

VS1 is valuable which is what De Beers means, as in worth more like rarity.

...because diamonds are such a great investment?

I guess you have to consider if the wearer/owner will be selling it or merely enjoying it?

 

[AprilBaby]

Let's hear what the poster wants?

 

[pyramid]

Why spend so much money on something then that is so small. Lots of things are sparkly. The one that always gets
me is a frosty morning, the paths are as sparkly and pretty and cost nothing or broken glass in sunshine.

 

[msop04]

Let's hear what the poster wants?

YAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSS

 

[pyramid]

Right on, the piling on starts again. This board really is biased now.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[msop04]

Why spend so much money on something then that is so small. Lots of things are sparkly. The one that always gets
me is a frosty morning, the paths are as sparkly and pretty and cost nothing or broken glass in sunshine.

Awesome! Get some.

 

[msop04]

OP, what is it that you or your intended desire in a diamond? Is it of cultural or personal importance that it be a specific color range or clarity? Have you been able to look at many GIA graded stones for comparison? Are you color sensitive at all?

 

[MollyMalone]

Let the OP buy his VS1 then and don't poo poo it. As a poster said, choose your diamond 'per Gypsy's outline', well the original poster had a different choice but as usual here it was poo pooed. The people who have other choices. Oher choices other than those held by the majority of posters on this board who don't allow the minority of posters to have their choice. Oh and maybe quality was the wrong word I used as I see de beers calls it Value. So if people believe what is touted on here they are not getting the best Value which is what this board is SUPPOSED to be about.
You can see colour from the side and not upside down either. Most qualified jewellers will recommend no lower than H VS2 - SI1.
This board and it's posters are just different.

Hmmm, here I thought I was conveying, via your parameters and the sentence structure-punctuation,

* * * But it probably would be more efficient in this instance to give him your color and clarity parameters & cut specs, as per Gypsy's outline, leaving size as the big variable for right now).

that I intended my reference to Gypsy's outline to modify cut,, didn't realize my comment might be construed as weighing in on what color and clarity ranges I thought our OP should ask the jeweler to produce for viewing at this immediate juncture.

dad, would you mind sharing with us your plans for the diamond you (hopefully) receive in exchange for your prior purchase, e.g., is there a SO currently in your life whom you're thinking of proposing to, or perhaps you instead are thinking of liquidating, via a sale for cash, the replacement stone?

 

[Gypsy]

Pyramid, since you are once again beating this poor horse, I will, again, post my standard response. Be the change you want to see. You have 4k posts in 14 YEARS. You don't get to critique posters who are on here everyday helping people on RT for hours at a time from the sidelines. That's what's not fair. You want change: then inconvenience yourself if you believe in it. You don't get to arm chair quarter back here. You don't like my outline? Create your own and start helping people with it. We can use the help.

 

[newjourney]

If the argument revolves around buying what the naked eye can discern then why buy a natural diamond at all? A lab grown diamond will suffice with better specs for the same price. Certainly, the rarity aspect of natural diamonds is what makes it special. If one can't afford a D IF then getting something close to those bench marks at a tolerable size is logical. No right or wrong answer as it all boils down to a consumer's priority in the 4C's. To each his own.
I came to this forms not too long ago to learn and admire the professed knowledge here, but more often than not I would read about the merits of selecting SI1 in favor of a larger diameter. It's always nice to hear both sides of the argument.

 

[pyramid]

I am just questioning the knowledge base. I don't want to teach.

 

[ChristineRose]

The OP has expressed his interest in a G, VS1, XXX 1.71 carat and it must be from a particular dealer. Lab stones are not relevant here.

They're also not that much cheaper. Lab stones that big are expensive to grow. They are also graded by IGI as GIA will not grade lab stones. Lab stones that large are mostly for people who specifically want a lab stone, and if you're going to buy a $15,000 lab stone you absolutely need to get someone to help you grade it properly--which is exactly what the OP doesn't want.

I was hoping to stay out of this as none of this is helping the OP, but I hope the OP doesn't listen to these comments on lab diamonds.

 

[Gypsy]

I am just questioning the knowledge base. I don't want to teach.

No. You want to criticize. You just want to complain. That's it. But not help people, especially those of us who put in the time here. You do nothing to fix "the problem that only YOU see" and you think you have the right, just because of your seniority on this forum. Well I have news for you, the seniority that matters is of the people who actually put the time in. I'll listen to Diamondseeker if she brings this up. But you? You offer no solutions, no time, no VALUE. So no.

You have the ability to make the change you want to see. But you don't. You know what that makes you? The problem you are complaining about. You aren't changing my mind. I KNOW that Si1 is where the value is at and I believe it with the zeal of the converted. You know what I have? An F VS1 purchased before PS. You know what I wouldn't buy again? An F Vs1. So, sorry, if you aren't willing to help the boards you are out of luck. It's time to get off the cross, we need the wood. And stop beating that horse. He's dead and gone.

 

[newjourney]

At the risk of further detracting from the OP's question, I just wanted to clarify that no one here is advocating for a lab stone. I brought it up simply to make a point.
OP, the replacement option sounds great and a safe choice (still want to check the certificate though). If size is important to you than obviously you'll have to compromise in color and/or clarity.

 

[pyramid]

No Gypsy, I just have a different value than you and your friend posters as do many people but they are all
silenced by this forum of old cut diamonds in k and below colours.

How would I get on, how do you honestly think, trying to speak up, 1 person, for G and above diamonds and VS1 and above
diamonds in ideal cut but lower carat weight, I would be chastised and ridiculed as I am being here, and told I know nothing
because you cannot see it. Well I can see the difference from the top view in an ideal cut diamond of H and below, maybe
not if clear daylight but after 6pm with evening sun, EASY.

lOOK at other posts tonight, someone wanting a 4 carat and she gets asked would she want a J colour. A J colour?? - I don't think
so. Now I would soon be jumped upon for saying that. However it is okay to say 'you do not need a VS1. Double standards or
what.

You are the one criticizing not just me but others who have tried to say, they would rather have a 1.50 D VS1 than a 3 J SI1.

If it is up to individual choice, although a better balance gives a more valuable diamond, then stop telling people that SI1 is
fine as you can only see inclusions with a loupe, that is devaluing stones of higher clarity, what about people with higher
quality diamonds msop are you not making them feel bad about their stones as you said to me up the page.
Stop saying you don't need higher colour as you can't see it. A diamond is 3 dimensional, I want all sides to look good, not
just the one flat side at the top and so do many others, including a world full of jewellers.

If I and we can't say it about colourless high clarity, why can you say it against, because this board has an agenda probably.
Lots of people willing to help others for nothing and boost up the sales figures. No commission for you, what other job
would people do here for no pay. It may be a hobby but for the dealers it is all profit.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

by dad... I am ignoring all the previous replies and am just giving you my opinion. I think G VS1 is an outstanding choice! In fact, I currently have an ideal cut 1.65 G VS1. That said, I am one who likes balance in quality...excellent cut with good color and clarity. I would say that G-H color and VS2 is a very excellent range to be in. I would take a slightly larger stone and go to VS2 if I were in your shoes. I really think you cannot look at Blue Nile prices and think the jeweler is going to match what you could get there. So you should be more prepared for something in the 1.6 ct range G-H VS. Using a mid-priced online vendor, James Allen, I will show you some prices on relatively well cut stones (not necessarily ones I'd choose, but adequate for pricing purposes).

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.70-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1009043

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.70-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1079321

As you can see, the stones at 1.7 are right around $16k from an online vendor, so I would not think they will go that large assuming the same cut quality.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

I would not make this too complicated. I would tell him your range of color and clarity and give him the simple cut parameters above. Tell him you want GIA triple excellent.

 

[pyramid]

Maybe next years fashion will be diamond doublets, like opals have, as you only seem to need the
flat top view here but make sure they are old cut remember.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

No Gypsy, I just have a different value than you and your friend posters as do many people but they are all
silenced by this forum of old cut diamonds in k and below colours.

How would I get on, how do you honestly think, trying to speak up, 1 person, for G and above diamonds and VS1 and above
diamonds in ideal cut but lower carat weight, I would be chastised and ridiculed as I am being here, and told I know nothing
because you cannot see it. Well I can see the difference from the top view in an ideal cut diamond of H and below, maybe
not if clear daylight but after 6pm with evening sun, EASY.

lOOK at other posts tonight, someone wanting a 4 carat and she gets asked would she want a J colour. A J colour?? - I don't think
so. Now I would soon be jumped upon for saying that. However it is okay to say 'you do not need a VS1. Double standards or
what.

You are the one criticizing not just me but others who have tried to say, they would rather have a 1.50 D VS1 than a 3 J SI1.

If it is up to individual choice, although a better balance gives a more valuable diamond, then stop telling people that SI1 is
fine as you can only see inclusions with a loupe, that is devaluing stones of higher clarity, what about people with higher
quality diamonds msop are you not making them feel bad about their stones as you said to me up the page.
Stop saying you don't need higher colour as you can't see it. A diamond is 3 dimensional, I want all sides to look good, not
just the one flat side at the top and so do many others, including a world full of jewellers.

If I and we can't say it about colourless high clarity, why can you say it against, because this board has an agenda probably.
Lots of people willing to help others for nothing and boost up the sales figures. No commission for you, what other job
would people do here for no pay. It may be a hobby but for the dealers it is all profit.

Well, I wasn't going to acknowledge any posts in the clarity debate, but my post I just posted was kind of in agreement with you. Partly because all my ring stones have been VS1 because I like it, and also because the OP said he was considering G VS1.

But, you referenced the 4 ct thread where I just mentioned a GIA J (high clarity) OEC coming up for sale. That poster was considering having a new stone cut in an OEC design and she wants I color. J is one color grade lower, and truthfully, sometimes low AGS I color equals GIA J.

So in both cases I am listening to the poster and also offering my opinion or options very close to what they are wanting.

 

[msop04]

Maybe next years fashion will be diamond doublets, like opals have, as you only seem to need the
flat top view here but make sure they are old cut remember.

Geez... [emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]

 

[LLJsmom]

Dear OP,

If you want a G, VS1, and you have your reasons, I say go for it. I am one of those people who have an F, VS1. I bought it before PS, and I did have my reasons for doing what I did. And honestly, those reasons still exist. When I found PS, and spent time on the forum, I found myself questioning my purchase. So many new buyers seemed to be encouraged not to pay for anything above an SI1, for the reasons already discussed. And many people seemed perfectly fine with lower colors, so much so that it felt like, to me, that people who paid for something higher than an H seemed to have wasted his/her money.

I spent some time away from PS, and allowed it to be just me and my stone. I came to realize that I am glad I bought what I did. If I could do it all over again, I would probably have bought a super precision cut stone, but realistically, I would not have sacrificed color or clarity. I think I might have sacrificed carat. That's just me.

Each person has his/her own priorities based on his/her own reasons. It is all very personal. I think the most important thing is to be well-informed. Once there, whatever you decide will be right for you. Good luck. If you go with a well cut G, VS1 GIA or AGS stone, I am certain it will be beautiful.

 

[MollyMalone]

The OP has expressed his interest in a G, VS1, XXX 1.71 carat * * *

I didn't get the impression from this (the first, and so far, only post where dad has spoken of color, clarity, size of the hoped-for replacement stone) that he is committed to those precise specs.

* * * I hope to get a better diamond from the transaction than a GIA-graded 2.11 carat J, I2. I looked at what is selling on this website for around $16k, and I think something in the range of a GIA-graded 1.70-1.80 carat G, triple X, VS1 is probably what I should be looking for (thoughts?). * * *

I imagine that dad purchased the 2.10+ ct stone 3-4 years ago because dropping down to SI2 clarity meant he could get a bigger stone than he would have gotten had he insisted on a VS1 that EGL International/Israel(?) graded as being the same G color. I don't know if that was solely his decision at the time, but the reason I've asked if he would share what his plans are for the replacement stone is because if it's for an intended fiancée, she could very well have her own, and different, priorities re color, clarity, carat weight (and may not even want a round stone) that I'd be encouraging him to elicit.

 

[dad]

So much to respond to... My maintain point is to get a diamond for a SO for an engagement ring. I want to make sure my money pays for something that is objectively worth the 16k I originally paid. I understand this is not an investment like buying gold would be. But I I hope to get more than a GIA j, i2.

Size, not a deal breaker, but based on what I see here I think a g-h, vs2-si1 (eye clean), excellent cut (see gypsy's post) diamond in the 1.70-1.80 should be reasonable. Am I flexible? Sure. But I want a nice looking ring that would be of value objectively.

 

[Gypsy]

So much to respond to... My maintain point is to get a diamond for a SO for an engagement ring. I want to make sure my money pays for something that is objectively worth the 16k I originally paid. I understand this is not an investment like buying gold would be. But I I hope to get more than a GIA j, i2.

Size, not a deal breaker, but based on what I see here I think a g-h, vs2-si1 (eye clean), excellent cut (see gypsy's post) diamond in the 1.70-1.80 should be reasonable. Am I flexible? Sure. But I want a nice looking ring that would be of value objectively.

I think this is a smart plan with a couple of caveats. My goal for you is to get you something that is worth the money expended. I think the dealer is being VERY reasonable and clearly values customer satisfaction and their reputation over short term gain. So I think that deserves you being reasonable in your expectations as well.

Here's what I think you and the other posters are overlooking. You originally thought you were buying an SI2. And you were happy with that. Now, the stone you have is actually an I2. Clearly if clarity was a big issue for you, this stone would not have been acceptable to you when you bought it. So personally, I think that being open to Si1 is an upgrade ALREADY. I think being open to Vs2 is smart as well. It expands your range of choices. That was my goal. That's why I said, in my last post to you to put a FLOOR of Si1. I did NOT say put a ceiling of VS on there. Why? Because often when I have searched for stones for people the best CHOICE has been a higher clarity stone, because the lower clarity options are few and far between as the size they wanted was very popular and the selection was low. SO, I think it's a mistake to set ANY ceiling. If an H IF is the best cut stone this guy can find you, then that's the stone you should take.

Also regarding color. You've had a J stone for several years you THOUGHT was a G. So... frankly, you probably aren't color sensitive either. An H or an I even would still be an upgrade AND a better value for you.

So here's what I think you should do.

PRIORITIZE the C's for this jeweler. Tell him the most important C for you is cut. Then give him the cut parameters either I or Diamondseeker gave you. Either set will provide you with a nice stone. Tell him the next most important C for you is color and that you would strongly prefer something at G/H. Then clarity and size are tied and that you have a minimum clarity requirement of Si1 and a minimum size requirement of 1.6 carats.

That way you have clearly communicated your needs and then see what he can find you.

I also think that you should invest $30 in an idealscope and 10 minutes of time into learning how to use it. That way you can tell, in person, if the stones you have are performing well.

Okay? Sound like a plan?

Now, forgive our squabbling, but I am going to respond to TP. We are like one big dysfunctional family here. Squabbles happen.

 

[Gypsy]

TP. I'm going to give you an blunt response with bullet points so that, hopefully, we can end this ridiculous argument we have every six months.

1. One person can make a huge preference on a board that typically only has 5 consumer "experts" posting at any given time. So yes, your voice WOULD make a big difference. If you posted here 1/4 of the time either DS or I do, you would see a VISIBLE difference.

2. It's not what you say, but how you say it. DS and I often disagree. She values higher color and clarity than I do, generally. And usually has tighter specs than I do, which rule out 60/60's. We also have very different vendor preferences. You don't see anyone piling on her do you? No. Do you see me arguing with her every 6 months? No. You know why? Cause she posts on here without insulting everyone the way you do. She posts in a thread, her opinion. I post in a thread, my opinion. The poster makes up their mind. We don't yell over each other. We don't fight. We just do our thing and present both POV and both are helpful. And we respect each other.

3. Stones with lower color than colorless and lower clarity than VS1 are not poor quality as you insist on saying. This is why no one listens to you. Because you are insulting. See #2.

4. No one advocates K colored stones out of the blue. We always preface any K recommendation either within the context of what the poster wants, or as our experience with lower color stones. I do prefer K's for earrings. But I certainly understand when people pick higher color. And I don't insult them. I just make sure they have SEEN well cut stones in the color range they are considering so they can make an informed choice. If a K is the only thing that will hit a required carat mark, then we usually preface that too, by recommending that maybe the person should go smaller to get more balanced specs.

5. If *I* can post on here day in and day out and not insult everyone, you can too. You just don't want to. I'm even more blunt and rude than you are, when I want to be. That's the key. When I WANT TO BE. You just have no desire to respect us or get along with us, and it is obvious in your posts. Again see #2.

6. Please stop insinuating that we are all shilling for vendors. You devalue what we do for the people on here and why we do it. The people who benefit MOST are not the vendors. It is the people who post here for advice that we help. Like this gentleman. Again see #2. This is another reason why no one listens to you.

7. It's not us. It's you. YOU are the problem. Not your opinions. YOU. That's why no one listens. Because you are rude, insulting, devalue what we say and what we do. And then you refuse to take any responsibility for it and blame US for your defects. You want someone to blame, look in the mirror. See #2.

I'm done. From now on, I'm just going to cut and paste my responses in this thread whenever you bring this up. Because your song and dance doesn't change. And I'm tired of it.

 

[gr8leo87]

It would be interesting to see what options does the Jeweller come up with.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[pyramid]

7. It's not us. It's you. YOU are the problem. Not your opinions. YOU. That's why no one listens. Because you are rude, insulting, devalue what we say and what we do. And then you refuse to take any responsibility for it and blame US for your defects. You want someone to blame, look in the mirror. See #2.


.......and this above is not rude!!

Most of the world is not listening to you and there are posts on the internet where people talk about how biased the information
here is.

 

[pyramid]

5. If *I* can post on here day in and day out and not insult everyone, you can too. You just don't want to. I'm even more blunt and rude than you are, when I want to be. That's the key. When I WANT TO BE. You just have no desire to respect us or get along with us, and it is obvious in your posts. Again see #2.


This is an internet forum. Are you for real? You can say you are even more blunt and rude than I am when you want to be, how do you
know this? You do not even know me or anything about me.

This is such a typical post from this forum, that is why people have left and there are only 5 helpers now.

Okay Pyramid, you have been put in your place, you cannot have a difference of opinion and you will just get the regular reply
from now on to anything your write. Because we are right, you are wrong and lower color diamonds are as good quality as higher ones
even though for the same price you get a smaller one. It is just another pick of the 4 cs a more balanced one. All high or highish C's or
go for lower C's and get higher carat weight, not as balanced. Oh and it is not me it is de beers that say buy balanced.

A 2 carat can easily cost the same as a 4 carat so why is that if the material
the diamond was constructed from by mother nature is the same quality.
The material is of lower quality in order to gain more size. Total price may
be the same but quality of material is not.


But then I cannot have a different opinion as the rest of the world can't either because people here
are sprouting out that Cut means quality of material does not matter because you cannot see it
from the top. Forget about the side view, all four side views people.

 

[pyramid]

People are made fun of here for wearing large diamonds with very low clarity and they are called frozen spit.

So if you were rich and had a 4 carat, D VVS1 Ideal cut Round brilliant and a friend's daughter had a 4 carat, J, SI1
Ideal cut Round brilliant and she said because you cannot see the difference from the top view, would you be
happy she got the same thing as you and kept saying you don't need a D VVS1 mine is just as good. Mine is not
of lower quality. So her diamond for hundreds of thousands of dollars less is just the same thing. That is why
diamonds are valued not just for how they look.

Diamonds are not great investments we are told here because the diamonds most people can afford are not. Read high
quality diamonds are much better investments and some even have portfolios of such stones.

Let people choose, don't tell them, you don't need a VS1.