shape
carat
color
clarity

If it's Trump vs. Clinton ...

If it's Trump vs. Clinton you will ...

  • Hold my nose and vote for one of them

    Votes: 26 55.3%
  • Write in another name

    Votes: 7 14.9%
  • Stay home

    Votes: 5 10.6%
  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 9 19.1%

  • Total voters
    47

Amber St. Clare

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Kenny, you didn't offer my option:

Moving to Canada.
 

kenny

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Amber St. Clare|1457143682|4000027 said:
Kenny, you didn't offer my option:

Moving to Canada.

Perfect polls are tough to write. :nono:
 

Dee*Jay

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msop04|1457120532|3999869 said:
liaerfbv|1457119953|3999862 said:
msop04|1457119338|3999857 said:
And honestly, in this day and age, being a white male is a bit scary as well. I would say they are discriminated against -- for purposes of "political correctness".


No. Just no. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

It happens all the time, especially in government jobs. I know first hand.

My husband (when applying for a "city landscape supervisor" type of job) was told by the HR person (with whom he graduated from college) that if he were black/Hispanic or female that they could give him the job because he was certainly the most qualified applicant and had the most experience... but since the city had to meet their "quota" for minorities, he wouldn't get it. According to him, this type of thing "happens all the time" and he ends up hiring someone who is not qualified because of their race and/or sex.

That is discrimination as well...

I'm not sure where you're located, but if you want a City job in Chicago you need to be white, male AND IRISH go get it. No discrimination in this town! :rolleyes: (And BTW, I'm not bashing the Irish because I am one myself! :cheeky: )
 

AGBF

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Dee*Jay|1457185146|4000157 said:
I'm not sure where you're located, but if you want a City job in Chicago you need to be white, male AND IRISH go get it. No discrimination in this town! :rolleyes: (And BTW, I'm not bashing the Irish because I am one myself! :cheeky: )

There was, indeed, a time when some white men were discriminated against. And some white men from minority/immigrant groups are still discriminated against. But white Anglo Saxon Protestant men are not discriminated against any longer. Unless they are disabled or openly homosexual or otherwise in a group that is traditionally picked on by their WASP male peers, who can be nasty sons of bitches. Reverse discrimination is a sham argument.

And I hear you, Dee Jay. My tall, fair, blue-eyed grandfather from the Austro-Hungarian Empire pretended to be German (he spoke German) rather than Eastern European to get work here because people didn't like Slavs here in the late 19th century. But that was then and this is now.

AGBF
 

msop04

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AGBF|1457187935|4000172 said:
Dee*Jay|1457185146|4000157 said:
I'm not sure where you're located, but if you want a City job in Chicago you need to be white, male AND IRISH go get it. No discrimination in this town! :rolleyes: (And BTW, I'm not bashing the Irish because I am one myself! :cheeky: )

There was, indeed, a time when some white men were discriminated against. And some white men from minority/immigrant groups are still discriminated against. But white Anglo Saxon Protestant men are not discriminated against any longer. Unless they are disabled or openly homosexual or otherwise in a group that is traditionally picked on by their WASP male peers, who can be nasty sons of bitches. Reverse discrimination is a sham argument.

And I hear you, Dee Jay. My tall, fair, blue-eyed grandfather from the Austro-Hungarian Empire pretended to be German (he spoke German) rather than Eastern European to get work here because people didn't like Slavs here in the late 19th century. But that was then and this is now.

AGBF

If someone is treated differently or rewarded simply because of the color of his/her skin, it is discrimination. Period. It doesn't matter if they're white, black, yellow, brown, pink, or blue. Just because a person is in the majority (white, male) doesn't mean they cannot (or will not) be discriminated against. Discrimination is discrimination. To say that white men can't and aren't discriminated against is ridiculous.
 

MarionC

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First let me state the most important concern:
If anything happens to my bling nest egg as a result of this election... :angryfire:

I really don't know what I would do, but moving out of the country had crossed my mind.
I can't believe Trump has gotten as far as he has - and not only do I not want to live here with him as POTUS, I don't want to live with the people who voted for him.
I am very concerned that a crude, failed businessman would be considered a suitable choice for running the country.
I'm sure our allies are squirming and our enemies are hoping there will be cause for celebration. What a mess.
 

momhappy

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Lil Misfit|1457141081|4000009 said:
momhappy|1457119745|3999861 said:
I don't think that voting for Trump because he is on the Republican ticket is the same as voting for Clinton because she's a woman. Voting for someone simply because you both have a vagina is not the same as voting for someone who shares many of your political views/beliefs. I do not agree with voting for someone just because they are black/female - that goes well beyond "acknowledging" their race/sex and just because almost all of the presidents have been white/male, doesn't make it right. Discrimination is not just about who's in power.


Agree with this 100%. And I don't discuss politics so I will not be divulging who my vote will go to.

Yes, I'm really starting to understand why my grandmother always told me that her political views/beliefs (especially who she was voting for) was private information ;-)
 

AGBF

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msop04|1457188874|4000183 said:
AGBF|1457187935|4000172 said:
Dee*Jay|1457185146|4000157 said:
I'm not sure where you're located, but if you want a City job in Chicago you need to be white, male AND IRISH go get it. No discrimination in this town! :rolleyes: (And BTW, I'm not bashing the Irish because I am one myself! :cheeky: )

There was, indeed, a time when some white men were discriminated against. And some white men from minority/immigrant groups are still discriminated against. But white Anglo Saxon Protestant men are not discriminated against any longer. Unless they are disabled or openly homosexual or otherwise in a group that is traditionally picked on by their WASP male peers, who can be nasty sons of bitches. Reverse discrimination is a sham argument.

And I hear you, Dee Jay. My tall, fair, blue-eyed grandfather from the Austro-Hungarian Empire pretended to be German (he spoke German) rather than Eastern European to get work here because people didn't like Slavs here in the late 19th century. But that was then and this is now.

AGBF

If someone is treated differently or rewarded simply because of the color of his/her skin, it is discrimination. Period. It doesn't matter if they're white, black, yellow, brown, pink, or blue. Just because a person is in the majority (white, male) doesn't mean they cannot (or will not) be discriminated against. Discrimination is discrimination. To say that white men can't and aren't discriminated against is ridiculous.

Really? How many white men have been made to ride at the back of a bus? Or to urinate outdoors because there were no restrooms other than "colored" restrooms available at a gas station where they stopped? Know any court rooms where they are still forced to wear skirts if they are attorneys?
 

msop04

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AGBF|1457207314|4000294 said:
msop04|1457188874|4000183 said:
AGBF|1457187935|4000172 said:
Dee*Jay|1457185146|4000157 said:
I'm not sure where you're located, but if you want a City job in Chicago you need to be white, male AND IRISH go get it. No discrimination in this town! :rolleyes: (And BTW, I'm not bashing the Irish because I am one myself! :cheeky: )

There was, indeed, a time when some white men were discriminated against. And some white men from minority/immigrant groups are still discriminated against. But white Anglo Saxon Protestant men are not discriminated against any longer. Unless they are disabled or openly homosexual or otherwise in a group that is traditionally picked on by their WASP male peers, who can be nasty sons of bitches. Reverse discrimination is a sham argument.

And I hear you, Dee Jay. My tall, fair, blue-eyed grandfather from the Austro-Hungarian Empire pretended to be German (he spoke German) rather than Eastern European to get work here because people didn't like Slavs here in the late 19th century. But that was then and this is now.

AGBF

If someone is treated differently or rewarded simply because of the color of his/her skin, it is discrimination. Period. It doesn't matter if they're white, black, yellow, brown, pink, or blue. Just because a person is in the majority (white, male) doesn't mean they cannot (or will not) be discriminated against. Discrimination is discrimination. To say that white men can't and aren't discriminated against is ridiculous.

Really? How many white men have been made to ride at the back of a bus? Or to urinate outdoors because there were no restrooms other than "colored" restrooms available at a gas station where they stopped? Know any court rooms where they are still forced to wear skirts if they are attorneys?

dis·crim·i·na·tion
/dəˌskriməˈnāSH(ə)n/
1. the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

So, just to be clear... you're saying that there are actually people who simply cannot be discriminated against because of their color or sex? ...because, I can assure you, they can. My husband is a perfect example. He was not even considered for a job because the city would only hire a minority. That is blatant discrimination. It may not be the discrimination that everyone is used to taking about, but that doesn't make it exempt.
 

packrat

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ahhh but in this day and age, it does. We believe that white people will always do better, be better, score better, make more, do more, have more, get things handed to them b/c they're white and it's preordained for us, so white people can not possibly be discriminated against b/c we already have a leg up on every other person on the planet b/c we are born white and therefore, the playing field must be leveled, we must be knocked down pegs for our presumed superiority that we all just naturally are born w/ and we must pay for things that happened that we had no part in. That can never and will never excuse us from our sin of being white. We must pay our penance. We should quit trying and working hard, b/c we're white and shouldn't be allowed to be a part of anything. And those who are not white, should never try or work hard, it should just be handed to them b/c they're non white and they automatically deserve it..that's kinda the vibe I get anymore. White people should be sorry they're white and they should be sorry they were born.
 

msop04

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packrat|1457221547|4000332 said:
ahhh but in this day and age, it does. We believe that white people will always do better, be better, score better, make more, do more, have more, get things handed to them b/c they're white and it's preordained for us, so white people can not possibly be discriminated against b/c we already have a leg up on every other person on the planet b/c we are born white and therefore, the playing field must be leveled, we must be knocked down pegs for our presumed superiority that we all just naturally are born w/ and we must pay for things that happened that we had no part in. That can never and will never excuse us from our sin of being white. We must pay our penance. We should quit trying and working hard, b/c we're white and shouldn't be allowed to be a part of anything. And those who are not white, should never try or work hard, it should just be handed to them b/c they're non white and they automatically deserve it..that's kinda the vibe I get anymore. White people should be sorry they're white and they should be sorry they were born.

Yep, that's pretty much what I'm getting from it... but that must be all my privilege talking. :roll:
 

kenny

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I support affirmative action.
It's not discrimination.

In a zillion or so generations, when we're all equal (yeah right :roll: ), I'll stop supporting it.
 

msop04

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kenny|1457222765|4000337 said:
I support affirmative action.
It's not discrimination.

In a zillion or so generations, when we're all equal (yeah right :roll: ), I'll stop supporting it.

Affirmative action is known as "positive discrimination". Yep, nothing like having to get [potentially] lesser qualified people working for you just because of their sex or race... ::)
 

kenny

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msop04|1457223456|4000341 said:
kenny|1457222765|4000337 said:
I support affirmative action.
It's not discrimination.

In a zillion or so generations, when we're all equal (yeah right :roll: ), I'll stop supporting it.

Affirmative action is known as "positive discrimination". Yep, nothing like having to get [potentially] lesser qualified people working for you just because of their sex or race... ::)

That's the short view.
The long view is equality.
 

msop04

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kenny said:
msop04|1457223456|4000341 said:
kenny|1457222765|4000337 said:
I support affirmative action.
It's not discrimination.

In a zillion or so generations, when we're all equal (yeah right :roll: ), I'll stop supporting it.

Affirmative action is known as "positive discrimination". Yep, nothing like having to get [potentially] lesser qualified people working for you just because of their sex or race... ::)

That's the short view.
The long view is equality.

If a white male is more qualified for something, but it's given to a Hispanic female (who does not have the same qualifications), that does not in any way ensure future equality. It means minorities have no incentive to try as hard as their majority counterparts. No one wants to work hard, only to be told they can't have something bc of their race/sex.

It seems to me that it's not true equality that some are seeking... it's special treatment.
 

liaerfbv

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In fact it IS your privilege talking. Attitudes like yours are a major contributor to the race relation problems we have in this country. I'm sorry your husband didn't get ONE job but maybe step outside your very narrow point of view and realize there are people living in this country who still get NO jobs because the color of their skin. Does your husband fear for his life at a routine traffic stop? Is he more likely to experience sexual assault? Likely not.
 

msop04

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liaerfbv said:
In fact it IS your privilege talking. Attitudes like yours are a major contributor to the race relation problems we have in this country. I'm sorry your husband didn't get ONE job but maybe step outside your very narrow point of view and realize there are people living in this country who still get NO jobs because the color of their skin. Does your husband fear for his life at a routine traffic stop? Is he more likely to experience sexual assault? Likely not.

That's fine. You can work hard and let someone else have what you've worked for... I guess you like that. The fact is we are not all equal in every way. That's not a bad thing. That just makes us individuals with different qualities.

And, no, I'm sure he doesn't. He acts like an upstanding citizen and abides by the law.

I'm so sick of all the race baiting bs... I guess we white folks will continue to pay for the sins of our great great great grandfathers until the end of time. [emoji849]
 

kenny

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msop04|1457224074|4000346 said:
kenny said:
msop04|1457223456|4000341 said:
kenny|1457222765|4000337 said:
I support affirmative action.
It's not discrimination.

In a zillion or so generations, when we're all equal (yeah right :roll: ), I'll stop supporting it.

Affirmative action is known as "positive discrimination". Yep, nothing like having to get [potentially] lesser qualified people working for you just because of their sex or race... ::)

That's the short view.
The long view is equality.

If a white male is more qualified for something, but it's given to a Hispanic female (who does not have the same qualifications), that does not in any way ensure future equality. It means minorities have no incentive to try as hard as their majority counterparts. No one wants to work hard, only to be told they can't have something bc of their race/sex.

It seems to me that it's not true equality that some are seeking... it's special treatment.


Groups with, overall, lower economic status getting better jobs helps their kids do better.
Kids may get better nutrition, health care, and a better neighborhood to grow up in, better education and grow up with something that whites have long take for granted and are often oblivious that they even have, hope and high expectations for themselves and their kids.

Over time inequality will be reduced and affirmative action can end.
 

msop04

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kenny said:
msop04|1457224074|4000346 said:
kenny said:
msop04|1457223456|4000341 said:
kenny|1457222765|4000337 said:
I support affirmative action.
It's not discrimination.

In a zillion or so generations, when we're all equal (yeah right :roll: ), I'll stop supporting it.

Affirmative action is known as "positive discrimination". Yep, nothing like having to get [potentially] lesser qualified people working for you just because of their sex or race... ::)

That's the short view.
The long view is equality.

If a white male is more qualified for something, but it's given to a Hispanic female (who does not have the same qualifications), that does not in any way ensure future equality. It means minorities have no incentive to try as hard as their majority counterparts. No one wants to work hard, only to be told they can't have something bc of their race/sex.

It seems to me that it's not true equality that some are seeking... it's special treatment.


Groups with, overall, lower economic status getting better jobs helps their kids do better.
Kids may get better nutrition, health care, education and grow up with something whites have long take for granted, hope and high expectations for themselves.

Over time inequality will be reduced and affirmative action can end.

In theory, that sounds great… Reality is that you have to want to do better to really do better. From what I have seen and witnessed, very few want to do better when all they have to do is exist to reap the benefits for which others work hard. When there is no incentive, everyone will eventually stop trying. That's just common sense.
 

kenny

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msop04|1457225347|4000350 said:
kenny said:
msop04|1457224074|4000346 said:
kenny said:
msop04|1457223456|4000341 said:
kenny|1457222765|4000337 said:
I support affirmative action.
It's not discrimination.

In a zillion or so generations, when we're all equal (yeah right :roll: ), I'll stop supporting it.

Affirmative action is known as "positive discrimination". Yep, nothing like having to get [potentially] lesser qualified people working for you just because of their sex or race... ::)

That's the short view.
The long view is equality.

If a white male is more qualified for something, but it's given to a Hispanic female (who does not have the same qualifications), that does not in any way ensure future equality. It means minorities have no incentive to try as hard as their majority counterparts. No one wants to work hard, only to be told they can't have something bc of their race/sex.

It seems to me that it's not true equality that some are seeking... it's special treatment.


Groups with, overall, lower economic status getting better jobs helps their kids do better.
Kids may get better nutrition, health care, education and grow up with something whites have long take for granted, hope and high expectations for themselves.

Over time inequality will be reduced and affirmative action can end.

In theory, that sounds great… Reality is that you have to want to do better to really do better. From what I have seen and witnessed, very few want to do better when all they have to do is exist to reap the benefits for which others work hard. When there is no incentive, everyone will eventually stop trying. That's just common sense.

You try being raised in a culture/family/home/community where the only hope is a lucky lottery ticket.
 

liaerfbv

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msop04|1457224704|4000348 said:
liaerfbv said:
In fact it IS your privilege talking. Attitudes like yours are a major contributor to the race relation problems we have in this country. I'm sorry your husband didn't get ONE job but maybe step outside your very narrow point of view and realize there are people living in this country who still get NO jobs because the color of their skin. Does your husband fear for his life at a routine traffic stop? Is he more likely to experience sexual assault? Likely not.

That's fine. You can work hard and let someone else have what you've worked for... I guess you like that. The fact is we are not all equal in every way. That's not a bad thing. That just makes us individuals with different qualities.

And, no, I'm sure he doesn't. He acts like an upstanding citizen and abides by the law.

I'm so sick of all the race baiting bs... I guess we white folks will continue to pay for the sins of our great great great grandfathers until the end of time. [emoji849]

I'm sorry that you think acknowledging racism still exists in the US (and clearly in this thread) is race baiting. There's nothing I can say that will change your mind, but I don't appreciate all the eye-rolling emotions you're littering around implying that differing points of view are less than yours. I'm glad your husband is a law abiding citizen with nothing to fear from the police. Unfortunately that's not the case for everyone in our country who are a different color than you.
 

packrat

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Then maybe we should work to change *that* rather than oh well your home life sucks, so here's this to make it better for you now as an adult. Why don't we work to change things in the beginning rather than putting a band aid on it?
 

msop04

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packrat said:
Then maybe we should work to change *that* rather than oh well your home life sucks, so here's this to make it better for you now as an adult. Why don't we work to change things in the beginning rather than putting a band aid on it?

Exactly.
 

kenny

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packrat|1457228921|4000370 said:
Then maybe we should work to change *that* rather than oh well your home life sucks, so here's this to make it better for you now as an adult. Why don't we work to change things in the beginning rather than putting a band aid on it?

Someone from a group that is statistically more likely to be disenfranchised finally getting a decent job with benefits IS making it better 'in the beginning' ... AKA their kids.
That's no band aide.

We can't exactly take a way their kids and give them to be raised in 'nice' families on the right side of the tracks, with hope, the right values, language clothing & mannerisms of the more successful classes, high expectations, middle+ income and career connections.

A parent getting a decent job is just one step in the right direction out of the never-ending cycle of hopelessness, but a big one.
 

packrat

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It is a band aid. Giving someone something b/c they have a hard life, is a band aid. Why are we not looking to making schools better? Reducing crime? Encouraging kids to succeed? Working on ways to help them succeed for themselves, on their own merit, rather than offering them something based on the color of their skin? To me, that sounds like oh well, you'll never measure up to the rest of us bc you have a shitty life, and we'll just wait and let you struggle, maybe turn to selling drugs and crime b/c you see no alternative, and rather than working toward making better alternatives available, we'll ignore you until you're an adult and then we'll just give you this job. why are we not working to make this country and the citizens *better*? We're too busy rewarding people based on the color of their skin and their perceived short comings rather than saying HEY this isn't right, our children shouldn't be going to shitty schools and we shouldn't have shitty educators, education shouldn't cost an arm and a leg, things aren't *RIGHT* here. But whatever, give that poor black guy w/a GED the job instead of the white guy w/the masters, that'll fix it. We don't need to level the playing field by making education better or neighborhoods better, or family lives better, or whatever the hell, dole out jobs based on skin color to make the world a better place.
 

katharath

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kenny|1457229951|4000381 said:
packrat|1457228921|4000370 said:
Then maybe we should work to change *that* rather than oh well your home life sucks, so here's this to make it better for you now as an adult. Why don't we work to change things in the beginning rather than putting a band aid on it?

Someone from a group that is statistically more likely to be disenfranchised finally getting a decent job with benefits IS making it better 'in the beginning' ... AKA their kids.
That's no band aide.

We can't exactly take a way their kids and give them to be raised in 'nice' families on the right side of the tracks, with hope, the right values, language clothing & mannerisms of the more successful classes, high expectations, middle+ income and career connections.

A parent getting a decent job is just one step in the right direction out of the never-ending cycle of hopelessness, but a big one
.

This. That is how you break a cycle and move forward.
 

Dancing Fire

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[quote="msop04|

In theory, that sounds great… Reality is that you have to want to do better to really do better. From what I have seen and witnessed, very few want to do better when all they have to do is exist to reap the benefits for which others work hard. When there is no incentive, everyone will eventually stop trying. That's just common sense.[/quote]



Agree with msop.. :))
 

Dancing Fire

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katharath|1457234058|4000393 said:
kenny|1457229951|4000381 said:
packrat|1457228921|4000370 said:
Then maybe we should work to change *that* rather than oh well your home life sucks, so here's this to make it better for you now as an adult. Why don't we work to change things in the beginning rather than putting a band aid on it?

Someone from a group that is statistically more likely to be disenfranchised finally getting a decent job with benefits IS making it better 'in the beginning' ... AKA their kids.
That's no band aide.

We can't exactly take a way their kids and give them to be raised in 'nice' families on the right side of the tracks, with hope, the right values, language clothing & mannerisms of the more successful classes, high expectations, middle+ income and career connections.

A parent getting a decent job is just one step in the right direction out of the never-ending cycle of hopelessness, but a big one
.

This. That is how you break a cycle and move forward.
Must stop having babies born out of wedlock.
 

Amber St. Clare

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Dancing Fire|1457241053|4000421 said:
katharath|1457234058|4000393 said:
kenny|1457229951|4000381 said:
packrat|1457228921|4000370 said:
Then maybe we should work to change *that* rather than oh well your home life sucks, so here's this to make it better for you now as an adult. Why don't we work to change things in the beginning rather than putting a band aid on it?

Someone from a group that is statistically more likely to be disenfranchised finally getting a decent job with benefits IS making it better 'in the beginning' ... AKA their kids.
That's no band aide.

We can't exactly take a way their kids and give them to be raised in 'nice' families on the right side of the tracks, with hope, the right values, language clothing & mannerisms of the more successful classes, high expectations, middle+ income and career connections.

A parent getting a decent job is just one step in the right direction out of the never-ending cycle of hopelessness, but a big one
.

This. That is how you break a cycle and move forward.
Must stop having babies born out of wedlock.

Must hold FATHERS of these children accountable.
 

AGBF

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Amber St. Clare|1457274595|4000524 said:
Dancing Fire|1457241053|4000421 said:
Must stop having babies born out of wedlock.

Must hold FATHERS of these children accountable.

Why break with tradition? It has always been the woman who suffers the consequences. Who wore the scarlet A in The Scarlet Letter? Who could be divorced (or killed) for adultery in all societies? Who ended up pregnant and unable to prove who the father of her child was? Who was beheaded by Henry VIII for supposed infidelity?

As I said...if it's not broke, don't fix it. Blaming women for out of wedlock children-and all other sexual misconduct-has always worked, so I say: stick with it!!!

AGBF
 
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