Makers of that film on PP "selling fetus parts" indicted

[chrono]

Re: Makers of that film on PP

I always ask, "Who paid for the study, and how do they benefit?"

A very important point that is very often overlooked.

 

[Ellen]

Re: Makers of that film on PP

... Often, friends will enthusiastically tell me that if I would only watch the documentary about X, I would "understand" and then agree with their position. They are dumbfounded when I ask who directed the documentary. They don't think it matters! Hello? Someone set out to create a documentary to clearly showcase a specific issue. Of course it matters who did it as that gives insight as to the intent. To watch and draw conclusions without considering the intent and reasoning behind the creation of the film makes no sense to me.

So true.

Another thing I try to keep a healthy skepticism of is 'Studies'.
I always ask, "Who paid for the study, and how do they benefit?"

Great point Kenny. In fact, one I tried to make on this board several years ago about the drug companies and how crooked they are. I pointed out the fact that they will develop a drug and then hire their own people to study it. Hello? Did anyone want to recognize the sheer lunacy and danger of this? Nope, crickets. Then more blind arguing. So, while one may ask the question, and one might get the answer, one does not always want to accept the truth.

As for the PP videos, if they were manipulated it's a shame, as I don't think it was necessary. I think there is plenty of legitimate, questionable conversation there, if people are willing to hear it.

 

[partgypsy]

It looks like the videographers (and I don't know who funded them, or if they were working independently) were indicted on two charges, a felony of "tampering with governmental records" (I'm not sure what is the cause of this charge) and attempting to buy/sell human organs (fetal tissue) which they repeatedly tried to do, documenting themselves on video (which is against the law). It is kind of like a John Doe going up to an undercover female cop and propositioning her to get sex for money, and after his arrest his defense being that he was going to make a citizen's arrest on prostitution if she said yes.

Police have that right, civilians do not. With investigative reporting, whistleblowers in restaurants, housekeeping do not get charged because they did not initiate the wrongdoing. However you may not have to worry about even that much longer. Republicans have passed laws so that people can no longer try to obtain a job (such at agricultural meat factories) for whistleblowing purposes, as they do not want big business to be negatively affected.

There are many things that are unsavory; the legal harvesting of organs from dead people for organ donation and research, the living conditions and slaughtering for meat production, euthanasia of unwanted animals, even the act of giving birth. Even if those things are legal (or even necessary for life), most people do not want to see it on the screen, especially if they are being used for sensationalistic purposes. I still think there is a place for whistleblowers when there is clear noncompliance of the rules and regulations that affect our public health.

When I lived in Chicago the closest place for me to get annual and ob gyn checkups was at planned parenthood. They kept me healthy and served even low income women who may have normally not had access to healthcare. In addition to providing birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancies they provide prenatal healthcare in underserved areas, improving ALL of our public health (both mother and child). They also provide abortion services, which is legal in our country. None of the government money goes to abortions, just to preventative and prenatal care. All defunding PP does, is reduce access to reproductive and prenatal healthcare to low income and rural women, which to me, seems pretty anti-women and anti-baby.

 

[purplesparklies]

Re: Makers of that film on PP "selling fetus parts" indicted

partgypsy,

Thanks for that. The "John" analogy makes perfect sense. Your point about whistleblowers is exactly the reason I wanted to understand all of this better. I think there is value in having people who shed light on things others would prefer remain secret.

On the subject of PP, we'll can agree to disagree. I do not disagree that they provide some services that are beneficial. I just do not think that is the majority of what they do or their main purpose. They have a very creative way of billing/coding/bundling to purposefully skew the numbers. I can't imagine why they choose to code as they do if they weren't trying to hide something. I also don't think they are as much the only option for many as people think. PP is terrific at marketing. They have to be. They have to convince people that there will be a lack of services without their existence. It just isn't the case. There isn't a PP anywhere remotely close to me but there are other women's clinics and Dr.s to care for the women in my area. Are there PPs in rural areas? From what I understand, they tend to be only in cities with very large populations. In multiple states, there are zero or only one single PP. After these videos came out, I started reading and learning about experiences of former PP employees. That is how I learned about the billing practices and some of the other things that go on. For me, PP is pro-PP rather than pro-woman and pro-baby.

Regardless, if the videos were manipulated to show things that are false, that is not okay. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in court.

 

[partgypsy]

Re: Makers of that film on PP

partgypsy,

Thanks for that. The "John" analogy makes perfect sense. Your point about whistleblowers is exactly the reason I wanted to understand all of this better. I think there is value in having people who shed light on things others would prefer remain secret.

On the subject of PP, we'll can agree to disagree. I do not disagree that they provide some services that are beneficial. I just do not think that is the majority of what they do or their main purpose. They have a very creative way of billing/coding/bundling to purposefully skew the numbers. I can't imagine why they choose to code as they do if they weren't trying to hide something. I also don't think they are as much the only option for many as people think. PP is terrific at marketing. They have to be. They have to convince people that there will be a lack of services without their existence. It just isn't the case. There isn't a PP anywhere remotely close to me but there are other women's clinics and Dr.s to care for the women in my area. Are there PPs in rural areas? From what I understand, they tend to be only in cities with very large populations. In multiple states, there are zero or only one single PP. After these videos came out, I started reading and learning about experiences of former PP employees. That is how I learned about the billing practices and some of the other things that go on. For me, PP is pro-PP rather than pro-woman and pro-baby.

Regardless, if the videos were manipulated to show things that are false, that is not okay. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in court.

Yes, we can agree to disagree. For me, they caught something I wasn't aware of and treated it successfully (precancerous lesion on cervix). Because of that I did not develop cancer and was able to have 2 healthy children later in my life, so I will always be grateful for their service.

 

[purplesparklies]

Re: Makers of that film on PP "selling fetus parts" indicted

Yes, we can agree to disagree. For me, they caught something I wasn't aware of and treated it successfully (precancerous lesion on cervix). Because of that I did not develop cancer and was able to have 2 healthy children later in my life, so I will always be grateful for their service.

I am so glad they provided a beneficial service to you. I hope all women are treated competently wherever they may choose to go for their health services.

 

[AdaBeta27]

I'm pro-choice, and I don't apologize for that. I followed the Centers For Medical Progress videos from the start. Some of the footage, like the moving baby that they implied came from a Planned Parent abortion and was being kept alive solely to "harvest" higher quality organs and tissues, that baby was old footage of someone's stillborn baby and it had NOTHING to do with Planned Parenthood. I think there was other old pro-life film footage of aborted fetuses that CMP "borrowed" and attempted to pass off as a recent thing obtained in the Planned Parenthood "investigation." One thing I found absolutely appalling was that CMP posted a document called "Body parts harvested from Planned Parenthood in San Jose, CA on 1-10-13" in the Documents Vault on CMP's web site. I don't know about you folks, but it makes me livid that CMP would proudly publish a report of page after page of data like this:
time 10:15
gest: 11 weeks
what: Maternal Blood
Ethnicity: (it's published)
Age: (it's published)
Ht (it's published)
Wt: (it's published)
gravida (it's published)
parida (it's published)
SAB (it's published)
TAB (it's published)

I'd hazard a guess that somebody could look at that tabulation of data + location and very possibly determine exactly who it was that had the abortion. Connections have been made quite often when people have talked about their personal lives on the Internet, on public boards and in chat rooms and then found out they were not as anonymous as they'd believed. Why not just post the woman's picture, name, address, phone number, and insurance billing, too. Why not put these women in the stocks and give them a public whipping for getting an abortion, while we're at it. Incredible! Abortion is a LEGAL and OPTIONAL medical procedure. I don't think every fetus out there ought to be birthed, and that people ought to have a legal means to abort one that they know is drug or alcohol damages, or that would adversely affect the existing family unit.

I'm happy to see the smarmy CMP people get indicted. (I see nothing smarmy about the majority of legitimate abortion providers. They are providing a service that people want and elect.) If some Planned Parenthood personnel were doing anything illegal with fetal remains, and that's a BIG IF, it was only a minority of employees at very few locations at most. If there is legitimate criminal activity, the way to handle that is fire and prosecute the few people who are engaged in criminal activity. Defunding the entire range of services that the organization provides just because some people disapprove of abortions is reprehensible. Religious freedom means that you get to practice your beliefs, or avoid religion altogether, NOT everybody has to comply with the same set of religious beliefs.

America has a lot of growing up to do, regarding sex, reproduction, unwanted pregnancies, women's rights, and the fact that, regardless of law or whatever religion is doing the anti-abortion harping today, if people (women or couples) want to abort an unwanted pregnancy, they certainly will find a way to do just that.

 

[AdaBeta27]

On the subject of PP, we'll can agree to disagree. I do not disagree that they provide some services that are beneficial. I just do not think that is the majority of what they do or their main purpose. They have a very creative way of billing/coding/bundling to purposefully skew the numbers. I can't imagine why they choose to code as they do if they weren't trying to hide something. I also don't think they are as much the only option for many as people think. PP is terrific at marketing. They have to be. They have to convince people that there will be a lack of services without their existence. It just isn't the case. There isn't a PP anywhere remotely close to me but there are other women's clinics and Dr.s to care for the women in my area. Are there PPs in rural areas? From what I understand, they tend to be only in cities with very large populations. In multiple states, there are zero or only one single PP. After these videos came out, I started reading and learning about experiences of former PP employees. That is how I learned about the billing practices and some of the other things that go on. For me, PP is pro-PP rather than pro-woman and pro-baby.

"PP is pro-PP rather than pro-woman and pro-baby" -- Planned Parenthood is engaged in reproductive planning and control, and providing abortions is part of that. So is providing contraceptives. And prenatal care, and whatever else they do. I live in a rural area that is just outside of several dead and decaying Rust Belt "cities," if they can even be called that anymore. There are no women's clinics that I know of within a 1 hour drive. Planned Parenthood does indeed have about 4 locations within, say, a 50 mile radius. NONE of them perform abortions. If I wanted an abortion, I'd have to go to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, perhaps Akron, or even farther away.

Now that the Affordable Healthcare Act has forced private doctors to accept more low income patients, rural and smalltown women do have more options than they used to. But I'd be willing to bet that for years and possibly decades, the 4 offices of Planned Parenthood served the bulk of that populace. Even so, it's MUCH faster to get into a PP office for a gyn exam than it is to wait a month or more for a new-patient appointment at the local physician offices.

".. In multiple states, there are zero or only one single PP. ..." -- There is one Planned Parenthood in WV, in Vienna which is a small town in a largely rural area. When I lived in Charleston, WV, there was no Planned Parenthood. However, there was the Women's Health Center of West Virginia, and also Kanawha Surgicenter, both of which are abortion providers. They don't hide that fact, either. They have web sites that tell you about it. WVFree.org also provides a lot of information about abortions and where one can get that done.

I still say that the people who made the ruling in Roe vs. Wade knew what they were doing, because they'd lived through an era when there were no or few contraceptives and abortion was illegal. So, we should let that ruling stand and not go sticking our noses into other people's reproductive choices.

 

[Ellen]

I happened to run across this just now by accident on another board. Did anyone hear this in the MSM? Huh. What a coincidence...


Planned Parenthood Board Member Works in Office of D.A. Who Indicted David Daleiden

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/01/26/planned-parenthood-board-member-works-in-office-of-d-a-who-indicted-david-daleiden/

Before yesterday’s announcement of the indictment, Operation Rescue President Troy Newman, who also serves on the Board of the Center for Medical Progress, which released videotaped evidence against Planned Parenthood, told LifeNews.com a special prosecutor is needed because of the clear conflict of interest at the D.A.’s office.

“Today, we renew our call to Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick and District Attorney Devon Anderson to appoint an independent special prosecutor to investigate Planned Parenthood,” Newman told LifeNews. “There are too many questions about the independence of the Harris County District Attorney’s office with a Planned Parenthood board member on hand and given the failure of a previous grand jury under Anderson to indict a Houston abortion provider despite ample photographic evidence and eye-witness testimony of late-term babies being born alive and intentionally killed. The public needs to be assured that an impartial investigation will be conducted on the facts and not on a personal political agenda.”

Sekulow added: “When you consider the fact that one of the prosecutors in the Harris County district attorney’s office is deeply involved with Planned Parenthood – serving as a board member for the local Planned Parenthood affiliate in Texas where the undercover investigation took place – along with the fact that she has served as an active fundraiser for Planned Parenthood for years – you have to ask the question – was this probe tainted? Was there a conflict of interest that produced a biased result?”

 

[partgypsy]

I happened to run across this just now by accident on another board. Did anyone hear this in the MSM? Huh. What a coincidence...


Planned Parenthood Board Member Works in Office of D.A. Who Indicted David Daleiden

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/01/26/planned-parenthood-board-member-works-in-office-of-d-a-who-indicted-david-daleiden/

Before yesterday’s announcement of the indictment, Operation Rescue President Troy Newman, who also serves on the Board of the Center for Medical Progress, which released videotaped evidence against Planned Parenthood, told LifeNews.com a special prosecutor is needed because of the clear conflict of interest at the D.A.’s office.

“Today, we renew our call to Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick and District Attorney Devon Anderson to appoint an independent special prosecutor to investigate Planned Parenthood,” Newman told LifeNews. “There are too many questions about the independence of the Harris County District Attorney’s office with a Planned Parenthood board member on hand and given the failure of a previous grand jury under Anderson to indict a Houston abortion provider despite ample photographic evidence and eye-witness testimony of late-term babies being born alive and intentionally killed. The public needs to be assured that an impartial investigation will be conducted on the facts and not on a personal political agenda.”

Sekulow added: “When you consider the fact that one of the prosecutors in the Harris County district attorney’s office is deeply involved with Planned Parenthood – serving as a board member for the local Planned Parenthood affiliate in Texas where the undercover investigation took place – along with the fact that she has served as an active fundraiser for Planned Parenthood for years – you have to ask the question – was this probe tainted? Was there a conflict of interest that produced a biased result?”

Seriously? I looked it up and this office employs 300 assistant district attorneys. She is 1 of out 300, and you are going to pick on her, even though she is not a higher up, and involved in neither the investigation nor the prosecution? I wish I had those super powers. If there is only 1 PP supporter in the entire district attorney's office I find that an incredibly low and anti-choice bias. However I am thinking or hoping there are probably more, but do not advertise it (due to witch hunts like this).

 

[monarch64]

I will keep my comment to a personal anecdote.

A PP location FAR removed from a metro area was the only health care provider I had seen (between "normal" doctors/gyns and PP in college) who took the time to gather information from me and notice that I had migraines with aura and that the birth control pill I had been prescribed for the past 9 years could cause me to have a stroke. Huh. Another life probably saved. Oh, the irony.

 

[stracci2000]

I will keep my comment to a personal anecdote.

A PP location FAR removed from a metro area was the only health care provider I had seen (between "normal" doctors/gyns and PP in college) who took the time to gather information from me and notice that I had migraines with aura and that the birth control pill I had been prescribed for the past 9 years could cause me to have a stroke. Huh. Another life probably saved. Oh, the irony.

When I first moved to a new town, and had no health insurance, and no job, PP helped me immensely. I went to them for about 12 years, during which time I had a cervical cyst removed. This removal was done at their surgical site. I went in through a back entrance to avoid the line of protesters holding anti-abortion posters.

 

[Ellen]

I happened to run across this just now by accident on another board. Did anyone hear this in the MSM? Huh. What a coincidence...


Planned Parenthood Board Member Works in Office of D.A. Who Indicted David Daleiden

http://www.lifenews.com/2016/01/26/planned-parenthood-board-member-works-in-office-of-d-a-who-indicted-david-daleiden/

Before yesterday’s announcement of the indictment, Operation Rescue President Troy Newman, who also serves on the Board of the Center for Medical Progress, which released videotaped evidence against Planned Parenthood, told LifeNews.com a special prosecutor is needed because of the clear conflict of interest at the D.A.’s office.

“Today, we renew our call to Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick and District Attorney Devon Anderson to appoint an independent special prosecutor to investigate Planned Parenthood,” Newman told LifeNews. “There are too many questions about the independence of the Harris County District Attorney’s office with a Planned Parenthood board member on hand and given the failure of a previous grand jury under Anderson to indict a Houston abortion provider despite ample photographic evidence and eye-witness testimony of late-term babies being born alive and intentionally killed. The public needs to be assured that an impartial investigation will be conducted on the facts and not on a personal political agenda.”

Sekulow added: “When you consider the fact that one of the prosecutors in the Harris County district attorney’s office is deeply involved with Planned Parenthood – serving as a board member for the local Planned Parenthood affiliate in Texas where the undercover investigation took place – along with the fact that she has served as an active fundraiser for Planned Parenthood for years – you have to ask the question – was this probe tainted? Was there a conflict of interest that produced a biased result?”

Seriously? I looked it up and this office employs 300 assistant district attorneys. She is 1 of out 300, and you are going to pick on her, even though she is not a higher up, and involved in neither the investigation nor the prosecution? I wish I had those super powers. If there is only 1 PP supporter in the entire district attorney's office I find that an incredibly low and anti-choice bias. However I am thinking or hoping there are probably more, but do not advertise it (due to witch hunts like this).

Um, I'm not "picking" on anybody, I'm linking you to a news story. You make a great point though gypsy. There probably ARE more supporters than her. Which would only bolster one of the points being made here. That quite possibly political favors were done in this case. That happens in the real world you know. If you are so naive as to think that it doesn't, then, you could probably watch a PP worker, on video, say they sold baby parts for profit and you'd still cry foul.

Do you even understand conflict of interest?

I'm done here, people are either going to get it or they are not.

 

[ksinger]

This is what not letting beliefs impact you job actually looks like.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/28/texas-da-i-m-pro-life-but-the-law-is-the-law.html

“Anyone who pays attention knows that I’m pro-life,” Anderson said. “I believe abortion is wrong. But my personal belief does not relieve me of my obligation to follow the law.”
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.
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Even though Anderson’s beliefs don’t align with Planned Parenthood, she told doubters in her Wednesday video statement that the grand jury had to follow the evidence: “The inconvenient truth of a criminal investigation is that it doesn’t always lead where you want to go.”
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outlets like the anti-abortion LifeNews and The Federalist revealed what they believed to be a smoking gun: Lauren Reeder, a prosecutor in the Harris County DA’s office, is on the board of directors for Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast, the affiliate that Anderson’s office was instructed to investigate.

Anderson had strong words on Wednesday for anyone who thinks Reeder’s affiliation with Planned Parenthood influenced the grand jury’s decision-making.

“That is simply not true,” she said. “In August, the day after our lieutenant governor asked me to investigate the allegations of misconduct by Planned Parenthood, this prosecutor notified me of her affiliation with this organization.”

Indeed, last August, Anderson announced to the press, “[Reeder] will not be involved in any manner in this investigation. If at any time in the future, reliable and credible information is brought to my attention that would question our ability to continue to perform a fair, thorough and independent investigation of this matter due to her board membership, I will revisit the issue of seeking the appointment of an independent prosecutor and act accordingly.”

Reeder did not participate, Anderson reiterated in her video statement.

“That is what happened,” she said, definitively. “She’s a fairly new prosecutor who would never have been assigned to an investigation of this magnitude anyway.”

 

[ame]

Re: Makers of that film on PP

partgypsy,

Thanks for that. The "John" analogy makes perfect sense. Your point about whistleblowers is exactly the reason I wanted to understand all of this better. I think there is value in having people who shed light on things others would prefer remain secret.

On the subject of PP, we'll can agree to disagree. I do not disagree that they provide some services that are beneficial. I just do not think that is the majority of what they do or their main purpose. They have a very creative way of billing/coding/bundling to purposefully skew the numbers. I can't imagine why they choose to code as they do if they weren't trying to hide something. I also don't think they are as much the only option for many as people think. PP is terrific at marketing. They have to be. They have to convince people that there will be a lack of services without their existence. It just isn't the case. There isn't a PP anywhere remotely close to me but there are other women's clinics and Dr.s to care for the women in my area. Are there PPs in rural areas? From what I understand, they tend to be only in cities with very large populations. In multiple states, there are zero or only one single PP. After these videos came out, I started reading and learning about experiences of former PP employees. That is how I learned about the billing practices and some of the other things that go on. For me, PP is pro-PP rather than pro-woman and pro-baby.

Regardless, if the videos were manipulated to show things that are false, that is not okay. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in court.

Yes, we can agree to disagree. For me, they caught something I wasn't aware of and treated it successfully (precancerous lesion on cervix). Because of that I did not develop cancer and was able to have 2 healthy children later in my life, so I will always be grateful for their service.

We're going to have to agree to disagree because they're the reason I am alive, and no longer have cervical cancer, and the state they operated in at the time of that diagnosis banned them from performing this service you have such an issue with. And that service would've saved one of my best friends AND one of her twins lives, had they any other practitioner in that state or within a 500 mile radius been able to perform the service they needed to save their lives which was an abortion. It was the only thing that would've saved her life, she would not be dead, nor would one of her children. The condition that had arisen left them no other option. But because people use no sense, other than some misguided beliefs, they don't see the bigger picture. It only seems to matter that these zygotes come to term, because once they're born, they're worthless to the very people who want them to be born.

 

[partgypsy]

My MIL got pregnant with an iud in place before abortion was legal. The fetus was not viable (wrapped up in the IUD). The doctors knew it, she knew it. But because of the laws in place, she had to carry the fetus until she was practically full term and her life was in danger before the doctor was allowed to perform the procedure. All that law did was take something that was emotionally traumatic and make it worse, plus endanger her life.
I hope we never go back to the days where abortion is illegal in this country.

 

[purplesparklies]

Re: Makers of that film on PP "selling fetus parts" indicted

Some of these responses are an excellent example of why it it is rare that emotionally charged conversations can continue in a respectful manner on pricescope. I have not made assumptions about anyone, nor have I cast judgment. I specifically stated that I am aware that PP provides beneficial services. If you had a positive experience, congrats. Your experience left an impact on you and impacts your opinion. Not everyone has the same experience nor does everyone have the same opinion.

My opinions are my opinions. They are not because I am uninformed or that I have "growing up to do". I have not made any attempt to "stick my nose in anyone's reproductive choices". I use plenty of "sense". My beliefs are no more "misguided" than anyone else's. The "zygotes" are not "worthless" to me once they are born.

Making assumptions about people based on little to no information says much about the individual making the assumption but little about the individual being judged. I respectfully divulged a little bit about my belief as it related to my questions. My opinions are a result of my beliefs, my experiences and my life just as your opinions are a result of your beliefs, your experiences and your life. Mine, while quite possibly different, are no less valid than yours.