DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."?
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
Kenny, you have 22k posts - your involvement in the Tribunal speaks to its duplicitous agenda, I'm afraid.
kenny|1452040645|3971339 said:Judging by your hands the International Court of Diamond Advice Tribunal hereby authorizes you three young and tender spring chickens to give diamond advice on PS, but only for 36 months, at which time new evidence must be submitted.
Kenny, you have 22k posts - your involvement in the Tribunal speaks to its duplicitous agenda, I'm afraid.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
I'm actually surprised that no one sees the groupthink here. That's not a criticism, it's very common in internet forums and any place where like minded people gather. But still. There is an expectation to toe the line here...
And no, not a "shill." I was accused of being a shill on an antivaccination website once. They have some major groupthink going on there, too.
I'm actually surprised that no one sees the groupthink here. That's not a criticism, it's very common in internet forums and any place where like minded people gather. But still. There is an expectation to toe the line here...
And no, not a "shill." I was accused of being a shill on an antivaccination website once. They have some major groupthink going on there, too.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
Gah, Kenny, I don't like showing off my old hands, but since you asked, I will comply. I am also posting an old ear, which has a very nice WF ACA diamond on it.
Gah, Kenny, I don't like showing off my old hands, but since you asked, I will comply. I am also posting an old ear, which has a very nice WF ACA diamond on it.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
As a group, the long time members here do have greater diamond knowledge than most people who work in sales in jewelry stores, that's for sure! Once people are educated on a topic, there should be some consistency in advice given. If you want to call common knowledge "groupthink", that's your perogative. I have NO idea what you are talking about regarding "towing the line". We are a bunch of the most strongly independent and opinionated people I have ever met! Right, Kenny?
BeekeeperBetty|1452042989|3971359 said:I'm actually surprised that no one sees the groupthink here. That's not a criticism, it's very common in internet forums and any place where like minded people gather. But still. There is an expectation to toe the line here...
And no, not a "shill." I was accused of being a shill on an antivaccination website once. They have some major groupthink going on there, too.
As a group, the long time members here do have greater diamond knowledge than most people who work in sales in jewelry stores, that's for sure! Once people are educated on a topic, there should be some consistency in advice given. If you want to call common knowledge "groupthink", that's your perogative. I have NO idea what you are talking about regarding "towing the line". We are a bunch of the most strongly independent and opinionated people I have ever met!
Right, Kenny?
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
When the thinking is good, groupthink is good.
BeekeeperBetty|1452042989|3971359 said:I'm actually surprised that no one sees the groupthink here. That's not a criticism, it's very common in internet forums and any place where like minded people gather. But still. There is an expectation to toe the line here...
And no, not a "shill." I was accused of being a shill on an antivaccination website once. They have some major groupthink going on there, too.
When the thinking is good, groupthink is good.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
Bryan, I will hold you to that I travel a lot; currently I'm in Florida, will be driving to Massachusetts in about a week, but will be somewhere around that area in June/july I believe (unless something changes that is!!). Be prepared; while I'm not so impressed by most diamonds, that is the stuff I truly love...lol
Your people have a reason to be proud when they pass ISO because its not easy. There's lots of companies that don't make certification because all hands on deck don't take it as serious as they should, and these are companies where its REQUIRED!
And while the average person may not know it, being 9000 certified means that all of you, from the top down have made a big commitment to QA processes, and, while your customers may not know a lick about it and what it really means, they do benefit from it.
More customer oriented companies SHOULD do it frankly.
Congrats to your team for doing it and persevering! I for one am tickled pink that you're doing it again, and while I say good luck this year, I got a feeling you'll do just fine
Texas Leaguer|1452029448|3971237 said:Arcadian,Arcadian|1452026431|3971184 said:You know what? I'm impressed that WhiteFlash is ISO certified. Being ISO certified takes lots of work, and you have a team of independent verifiers come in and pick apart everything. If you don't have your ducks in a row, no ISO cert for you!
So for me, this thread is an eye opener. Also having been through the hell it takes to get a place certified (not just 9000 but also ISO 14001 and 27001), you and your folks have have it together not only in paperwork, but processes. They have to know exactly what to do when asked of them.
Says a lot to me that WF did this.
I can't speak on diamonds with any authority, I'm a colored stone girl (though diamonds make great accent stones
Thank you so much for your kind words. Most people are not familiar with ISO and your remarks are sincerely appreciated. I have shared them with the entire Whiteflash team who take motivation from that kind of recognition. It is a big commitment and requires effort from every member of the team. In fact we are in the final preparations for our annual audit which takes place in a about a week
When we first studied ISO in looking at ways to improve our organization and performance back in 2010, we saw a program that would bring a living structure to our operation that could evolve over time. It has done that and more, delivering even more benefits than we had envisioned. It has helped us solidify our company culture and given every team member a stake and a voice and a role in building and improving our business. It's hard work, but I think everyone here in their heart of hearts would tell you they are energized by the process and proud of our certification.
Another thing that you alluded to and has also been told to us by auditors: they are impressed that we do it solely for the intended purpose - because we are striving to be the best we can possibly be. It seems that most companies that commit to ISO do so because they are in an industry that requires it.
Thank you again for the recognition. If you ever get to Houston we would be happy to give you a detailed look at our process charts and flow diagrams
Bryan, I will hold you to that I travel a lot; currently I'm in Florida, will be driving to Massachusetts in about a week, but will be somewhere around that area in June/july I believe (unless something changes that is!!). Be prepared; while I'm not so impressed by most diamonds, that is the stuff I truly love...lol
Your people have a reason to be proud when they pass ISO because its not easy. There's lots of companies that don't make certification because all hands on deck don't take it as serious as they should, and these are companies where its REQUIRED!
And while the average person may not know it, being 9000 certified means that all of you, from the top down have made a big commitment to QA processes, and, while your customers may not know a lick about it and what it really means, they do benefit from it.
More customer oriented companies SHOULD do it frankly.
Congrats to your team for doing it and persevering! I for one am tickled pink that you're doing it again, and while I say good luck this year, I got a feeling you'll do just fine
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
I don't really see a lot of group think tbh. If you're new then maybe you should do some backwards reading because there have been and can be some doozy type disagreements.
And sure there are some that have their favorite vendors for a reason but anyone can and should disagree...but they need to bring their reasons why to the table, and not "because I said so" KWIM?
I generally hang out on the colored stone board where you can see lots of disagreements, and you know what? thats totally cool. There needs to sometimes be dissenting views (as long as they're respectful) for a place and people to grow. I think its perfectly fine to challenge the status quo. And the reality is, I see that here more often than I do in a lot of other places.
Gemstones and jewelry in general are very emotional purchases. The rules here keep this place respectful. We may not always agree with them,and some of us have challenged them (hell Kenny probably knows that more than most...lol) but the rules are there for a reason and don't in my view, breed groupthink.
BeekeeperBetty|1452042989|3971359 said:I'm actually surprised that no one sees the groupthink here. That's not a criticism, it's very common in internet forums and any place where like minded people gather. But still. There is an expectation to toe the line here...
And no, not a "shill." I was accused of being a shill on an antivaccination website once. They have some major groupthink going on there, too.
I don't really see a lot of group think tbh. If you're new then maybe you should do some backwards reading because there have been and can be some doozy type disagreements.
And sure there are some that have their favorite vendors for a reason but anyone can and should disagree...but they need to bring their reasons why to the table, and not "because I said so" KWIM?
I generally hang out on the colored stone board where you can see lots of disagreements, and you know what? thats totally cool. There needs to sometimes be dissenting views (as long as they're respectful) for a place and people to grow. I think its perfectly fine to challenge the status quo. And the reality is, I see that here more often than I do in a lot of other places.
Gemstones and jewelry in general are very emotional purchases. The rules here keep this place respectful. We may not always agree with them,and some of us have challenged them (hell Kenny probably knows that more than most...lol) but the rules are there for a reason and don't in my view, breed groupthink.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
Frankly it is laughable that anyone would accuse PS posters of commercial bias or schilling. The effort that you all put into catching such behaviour (no matter how young or old you are) is amazing.
Makes me question the basis and ethics of those raisng the issue - maybe it is what we call in Australia a Furphy - a desire to change the topic with a juicier one?
Frankly it is laughable that anyone would accuse PS posters of commercial bias or schilling. The effort that you all put into catching such behaviour (no matter how young or old you are) is amazing.
Makes me question the basis and ethics of those raisng the issue - maybe it is what we call in Australia a Furphy - a desire to change the topic with a juicier one?
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
So the poster just registered this morning, has 6 posts and knows we all have old hands because they spent the day looking at our pictures????
But don't ask me, I'm not trustworthy with my thousands of posts and old hands.
And what's with the "old boys club"? I thought most of us were women?
Btw, best thread we have had in months!!!
So the poster just registered this morning, has 6 posts and knows we all have old hands because they spent the day looking at our pictures????
But don't ask me, I'm not trustworthy with my thousands of posts and old hands.
And what's with the "old boys club"? I thought most of us were women?
Btw, best thread we have had in months!!!
rubybeth
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
I really don't think you can go wrong with Whiteflash, and if you have any issues, I'd trust them to make it right. I say this from experience. I've dealt with Whiteflash on many occasions. I have to say that Liza and Vera are two of the nicest, most helpful jewelry professionals I've ever worked with. My husband purchased my engagement ring from Whiteflash all the way back in 2008, and I purchased a diamond band for my 30th birthday in 2011, and recently had it resized and fixed due to some damage I'd caused. I've also e-mailed with Liza on many occasions, discussing possible re-sets for my diamonds, and she's always been quick to reply and answered my many questions very graciously. These were all great experiences. But not only that, I've helped four of my friends/family members in my real life to buy rings via Whiteflash, too. All of them also had excellent experiences. Most recently, I helped my cousin's now-husband to find her engagement ring, and she loved my "birthday band" so much, she chose it for her wedding band (they just got married on January 2nd!). I'll attach a photo of those rings from the wedding day, since I don't have a recent hand shot of my own. The engagement ring is an ACA diamond in a Tacori setting, and the 'Mrs.' band is the Danielle bezel band (which was originally designed by a longtime Pricescoper, geckodani), which is also the band in my avatar.
As an aside, I've helped three other friends get rings NOT from Whiteflash, as well. They wanted rings that Whiteflash didn't offer (antiques, pearls, non-traditional engagement ring, etc.) so we went with other sources. I don't think of myself as a shill for Whiteflash, but rather, someone who helps their friends/family find what they want, regardless of the source. But when the best source happens to be Whiteflash, I'd solidly recommend it.
omd21|1452056204|3971499 said:
I really don't think you can go wrong with Whiteflash, and if you have any issues, I'd trust them to make it right. I say this from experience. I've dealt with Whiteflash on many occasions. I have to say that Liza and Vera are two of the nicest, most helpful jewelry professionals I've ever worked with. My husband purchased my engagement ring from Whiteflash all the way back in 2008, and I purchased a diamond band for my 30th birthday in 2011, and recently had it resized and fixed due to some damage I'd caused. I've also e-mailed with Liza on many occasions, discussing possible re-sets for my diamonds, and she's always been quick to reply and answered my many questions very graciously. These were all great experiences. But not only that, I've helped four of my friends/family members in my real life to buy rings via Whiteflash, too. All of them also had excellent experiences. Most recently, I helped my cousin's now-husband to find her engagement ring, and she loved my "birthday band" so much, she chose it for her wedding band (they just got married on January 2nd!). I'll attach a photo of those rings from the wedding day, since I don't have a recent hand shot of my own. The engagement ring is an ACA diamond in a Tacori setting, and the 'Mrs.' band is the Danielle bezel band (which was originally designed by a longtime Pricescoper, geckodani), which is also the band in my avatar.
As an aside, I've helped three other friends get rings NOT from Whiteflash, as well. They wanted rings that Whiteflash didn't offer (antiques, pearls, non-traditional engagement ring, etc.) so we went with other sources. I don't think of myself as a shill for Whiteflash, but rather, someone who helps their friends/family find what they want, regardless of the source. But when the best source happens to be Whiteflash, I'd solidly recommend it.
ame
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
Or any of the vendors we highly recommend. We highly recommend vendors from here for a reason. High Performance, Good Old Gold, Brian Gavin, James Allen....the list goes on. Everyone has different needs, different priorities and different budgets. Every vendor meets those needs for different reasons. I have personally had better experiences with HPD, GOG and BGD than I have with WF. I have been a repeat customer of all three of those, and have never repatronized WF due to a bad first experience. Doesn't mean that things maybe haven't changed with WF since then, but I was so burned by the experience that while their diamonds are great, I can't get past it. They're not who I go to first when looking for stones for a poster on here.omd21|1452056204|3971499 said:
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
^ Agreed. We all have had varied experiences here.
Personally I have had unsatisfactory dealings with BGD and would not purchase from them again; however, I do consider most of their diamonds top-notch and realize others have had positive transactions with them.
Over the years I have had several incredibly positive transactions with WF and can wholeheartedly recommend WF to any purchaser looking for ideal-cut RB or princess-cut diamonds. Both their diamonds and their customer service are top-of-the-line.
I also recommend James Allen and Blue Nile based on personal experience and repeat purchases with both vendors.
And while I have purchased from GOG, they've been warmer newly-cut antique-style diamonds that I ended up returning with the return period.
The only groupthink I have witnessed on PS is the kind that goes along with believing 2+2=4 ... really, sometimes, facts are facts; and rational thinking based on facts is the opposite of groupthink.
^ Agreed. We all have had varied experiences here.
Personally I have had unsatisfactory dealings with BGD and would not purchase from them again; however, I do consider most of their diamonds top-notch and realize others have had positive transactions with them.
Over the years I have had several incredibly positive transactions with WF and can wholeheartedly recommend WF to any purchaser looking for ideal-cut RB or princess-cut diamonds. Both their diamonds and their customer service are top-of-the-line.
I also recommend James Allen and Blue Nile based on personal experience and repeat purchases with both vendors.
And while I have purchased from GOG, they've been warmer newly-cut antique-style diamonds that I ended up returning with the return period.
The only groupthink I have witnessed on PS is the kind that goes along with believing 2+2=4 ... really, sometimes, facts are facts; and rational thinking based on facts is the opposite of groupthink.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
At the expense of appearing solicitous, I would like to thank you for being balanced in your remarks where our company is concerned. Naturally it pains me to see any customer who ever had a bad experience with Whiteflash, whether under my watch or before. Having inquired about your case with the people still here from that time, I understand that it involves a purchase made in 2005/2006, well before I joined the company, so I do not know all the details. But I will attempt to access the records and get a specific understanding of what occurred.
Obviously I regret that your experience was of a nature that would continue to be front of mind after such a long time, but bad experiences are like that.
All I can say is that we would welcome the opportunity to show you the new and improved Whiteflash, if you should ever be inclined to give us another chance.
Sincerely,
Bryan Boyne
Hi Ame,ame|1452090400|3971595 said:
At the expense of appearing solicitous, I would like to thank you for being balanced in your remarks where our company is concerned. Naturally it pains me to see any customer who ever had a bad experience with Whiteflash, whether under my watch or before. Having inquired about your case with the people still here from that time, I understand that it involves a purchase made in 2005/2006, well before I joined the company, so I do not know all the details. But I will attempt to access the records and get a specific understanding of what occurred.
Obviously I regret that your experience was of a nature that would continue to be front of mind after such a long time, but bad experiences are like that.
All I can say is that we would welcome the opportunity to show you the new and improved Whiteflash, if you should ever be inclined to give us another chance.
Sincerely,
Bryan Boyne
ame
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
Bryan,
It was 2004-2005, and related to workmanship and customer service issues. It escalated RAPIDLY and the escalation is what caused the most damage. It is well in the past, but still niggling enough to be an issue and I am done dwelling on it, I just have put it in a box that I buried and have no need to dig up.
I don't have any issue with you, nor the way you represent your company, which is very professionally. I can also see where suggesting stones from your inventory might be beneficial to various posters. I don't make it my first choice, but if there's a case that warrants it, I do put stones in the list.
Ame
Bryan,
It was 2004-2005, and related to workmanship and customer service issues. It escalated RAPIDLY and the escalation is what caused the most damage. It is well in the past, but still niggling enough to be an issue and I am done dwelling on it, I just have put it in a box that I buried and have no need to dig up.
I don't have any issue with you, nor the way you represent your company, which is very professionally. I can also see where suggesting stones from your inventory might be beneficial to various posters. I don't make it my first choice, but if there's a case that warrants it, I do put stones in the list.
Ame
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
I can appreciate that you don't want to dig up the topic (and will respect that), but if you ever would like to discuss it I would love the opportunity to fully understand what happened. My efforts have turned up pieces, but there are aspects that I am not able to understand from the record. From the correspondence that I do see, I certainly understand why you would have been angry.
Thank you Ame.ame|1452103778|3971696 said:
I can appreciate that you don't want to dig up the topic (and will respect that), but if you ever would like to discuss it I would love the opportunity to fully understand what happened. My efforts have turned up pieces, but there are aspects that I am not able to understand from the record. From the correspondence that I do see, I certainly understand why you would have been angry.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
We appreciate the knowledge the vendors bring to the forum. PS has strict rules to prevent them from ever commenting on other vendor's products, and they also can't promote theirs. I realize sometimes that involves a judgement call by the moderator. But overall, it is a fair system and we still benefit from some of the discussions and posts from vendors such as Bryan. He is one who is least likely to overstep the rules as far as I have seen.
We appreciate the knowledge the vendors bring to the forum. PS has strict rules to prevent them from ever commenting on other vendor's products, and they also can't promote theirs. I realize sometimes that involves a judgement call by the moderator. But overall, it is a fair system and we still benefit from some of the discussions and posts from vendors such as Bryan. He is one who is least likely to overstep the rules as far as I have seen.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
I've been banned a few times, sometimes for standing up for (though ... uhm ... ungraciously)what I felt very passionately was a good cause.
I don't agree with everything at any site.
But there is WAY more good at PS than bad and I want to be here, so I follow their rules.
When I'm driving and it is not necessary I don't like coming to a full stop at stop signs.
But them's the rules and if I break them I shouldn't whine about the consequences.
Oh, and anything we post on PS becomes property of PS.
Read the agreement.
They now own every purdy pic I've ever posted.
No biggie, small price to pay for what I've gotten from PS.
Don't like PS owning everything you post?
Then, don't post anything here.
I've been banned a few times, sometimes for standing up for (though ... uhm ... ungraciously)what I felt very passionately was a good cause.
I don't agree with everything at any site.
But there is WAY more good at PS than bad and I want to be here, so I follow their rules.
When I'm driving and it is not necessary I don't like coming to a full stop at stop signs.
But them's the rules and if I break them I shouldn't whine about the consequences.
Oh, and anything we post on PS becomes property of PS.
Read the agreement.
They now own every purdy pic I've ever posted.
No biggie, small price to pay for what I've gotten from PS.
Don't like PS owning everything you post?
Then, don't post anything here.
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
What's interesting about a mix of consumers, prosumers and tradespeople in these discussions is that we each have different perspectives, experiences and expertise to contribute. And we all learn valuable things from one another.
Tradespeople are expected to adhere to a more restricted role and not be overly promotional. They are labeled with a trade badge so that it is clear that their comments may be colored by their business agenda.
But many of the tradespeople here are like the prosumers here in the sense that we share a personal passion for diamonds and jewelry, AND for learning and sharing. Many discussions have little to do with selling anything. It's just about gaining an insight or helping someone. Small things in this realm can be very rewarding to many of us here.
Thanks DS,diamondseeker2006|1452115183|3971801 said:
What's interesting about a mix of consumers, prosumers and tradespeople in these discussions is that we each have different perspectives, experiences and expertise to contribute. And we all learn valuable things from one another.
Tradespeople are expected to adhere to a more restricted role and not be overly promotional. They are labeled with a trade badge so that it is clear that their comments may be colored by their business agenda.
But many of the tradespeople here are like the prosumers here in the sense that we share a personal passion for diamonds and jewelry, AND for learning and sharing. Many discussions have little to do with selling anything. It's just about gaining an insight or helping someone. Small things in this realm can be very rewarding to many of us here.
Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
Lots of men have moustaches like Bryan's, it is not an out of the way huge curly ends one.
Many people have their own grievance but 4 out of hundreds does not make it valid in a large group. It reminds me of the reviews on retail websites, e.g. a pair of shoes may have 35 good reviews and 6 bad, that doesn't mean the shoes are bad, it is personal choice same as which vendor to use. We all read the bad and good about each vendor and make our mind up.
I questioned in a thread why posters spent so many years helping customers where I felt they were bringing in thousands of dollars to vendors but not being paid for it?
I have bought from WF and whilst I like Vera and still would do business with them, I found it strange when I questioned a feather as it was known as a crack. She told me that in 30? Years of working in the diamond trade she had never once heard it being referred to as a crack. I find it strange in a way felt like a lie to me for her to say that due to how often it is mentioned here by vendors. Do the good people at Whiteflash never use that word in their offices when talking and looking at stones going to and from the lab and dealing with cutting factories?
It is the nature of all companies to do what they need to earn money and this means not 100% truth just like in real life. It is yourself you are harming carrying that grudge on Pricescope moderators and you should bury it in a box for your own happiness instead of follow a board you don't like to catch them out and post again to be banned. If you really want to still post then you should bring that up offline - rules are there for a reason and it is their private board so their rules.
It sounds to me that as you love diamonds you want to be part of this community and feel you were doing good for the board so of course it was a shock to be suddenly banned. Were you making money off of your videos being linked too and that is the sore point?
Lots of men have moustaches like Bryan's, it is not an out of the way huge curly ends one.
Many people have their own grievance but 4 out of hundreds does not make it valid in a large group. It reminds me of the reviews on retail websites, e.g. a pair of shoes may have 35 good reviews and 6 bad, that doesn't mean the shoes are bad, it is personal choice same as which vendor to use. We all read the bad and good about each vendor and make our mind up.
I questioned in a thread why posters spent so many years helping customers where I felt they were bringing in thousands of dollars to vendors but not being paid for it?
I have bought from WF and whilst I like Vera and still would do business with them, I found it strange when I questioned a feather as it was known as a crack. She told me that in 30? Years of working in the diamond trade she had never once heard it being referred to as a crack. I find it strange in a way felt like a lie to me for her to say that due to how often it is mentioned here by vendors. Do the good people at Whiteflash never use that word in their offices when talking and looking at stones going to and from the lab and dealing with cutting factories?
It is the nature of all companies to do what they need to earn money and this means not 100% truth just like in real life. It is yourself you are harming carrying that grudge on Pricescope moderators and you should bury it in a box for your own happiness instead of follow a board you don't like to catch them out and post again to be banned. If you really want to still post then you should bring that up offline - rules are there for a reason and it is their private board so their rules.
It sounds to me that as you love diamonds you want to be part of this community and feel you were doing good for the board so of course it was a shock to be suddenly banned. Were you making money off of your videos being linked too and that is the sore point?
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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."
We're closing this thread because it has gone astray from providing help to the OP.
Feel free to continue posting your "old lady finger" photos on another thread.
We're closing this thread because it has gone astray from providing help to the OP.
Feel free to continue posting your "old lady finger" photos on another thread.
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