Leakage in middle of Radiant Cut?

[anjro]

Images Below

I've been lurking and tried my best to search through the site to better understand the leakage in the middle as shown in the ASET/IS images but I can't seem to find anything.

The 1.63ct H VS2

My budget is 12k USD and this is below my budget (around 10k which is great!) but I'm concerned with the dot in the middle of the diamond. Does anyone have any experience with this with respect to radiant cuts or have any input on this? I saw some content on the site about princess cuts and it seemed like this type of leakage might be negligible but I'm not sure if that same logic could be applied to radiant cuts as well.

What might I expect from that spot in the middle?

 

[diamondloveaffair]

from a straight face down view, you would expect to see through the diamond in the white spot.

The white spot aside, the ASET doesn't impress.

 

[chel180]

The white in the centre is not a major concern. You can expect a cetain amount of internal reflection at the bottom, although that area is quite large on this stone. That said taking the ASET as a whole I would say it was average- I've seen many better but also a few much better. As a con, I would prefer to see more red in under the table but as a pro, there is quite a bit of color around the edges.

I did a little search for alternative, there isn't much around in the such a large size, are you specifically wanting a square-ish radiant?
I found these at JA that might be worth asking for an ASET image to see if they compare favourably to the WF stone (in case you are not aware you can place on hold and ask for ASETs from three diamonds aat JA for free, after that there is a fee) I'm not dissuading you from the WF stone, purely giving you alternative so you can see what you can get for your money.

I particularly like the bolder faceting on this stone but its cheaper and smaller>
http://www.ritani.com/engagement-rings/halo-micropave-diamond-band-engagement-ring-in-platinum/5020
this one is the same face up size, despite the lower carat weight but a higher color and clarity for the same price>
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.52-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-205945
this one is quite a bit larger that the WF stone for the same money>
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.81-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-206485

Finally if you would consider a slightly smaller stone (1.37ct) this is a stunner, it is a Princess of hearts cut, so has the square outline of the WF stone but with the superior performance of a round brilliant. Its a completely different look, but I love it. And would happily have a smaller stone for so much sparkle!
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8063/

 

[anjro]

Thanks for the insight regarding JA, I was unaware of that.

I'm looking for a square cushion or radiant from 1.6-2.0ct, f-h, and vs1-si1. It's been tough to find something in the range, particularly due to the square requirement I think.

Oh at first glance I like the POH, how do those typically compare to fancy radiants/cushions?

The priorities for the purchase are mostly sparkle/size if that helps.

 

[chel180]

The POW is a completely different look but so is a radiant compared to a cushion.

A POW is my choice of the three but its a very personal choice you would need to see what your eyes prefer. You will get a smaller size for your money compared to cushions/radiants as its a premium branded cut but, more sparkle better performance and bolder flashes imho. And sparklier stones always look larger because you get more light return.

A cushion and a radiant will give you a much larger stone for your money but there is less restriction about the cut so some will be beautiful but many will be rubbish. Radiants usually give little pin point sparkles and a crushed ice effect. An overall gentler effect.
Its a persona choice which you prefer. A chunky faceted cushion would be in-between the two is a kinda layman sort of way.

Check these out, so you can see what a POW looks like compared to a cushion and to a square radiant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8deWDWv5Ng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLTUYjt1qM

Do you have a setting preference? One cut of stone might lend itself better to the setting than another.

 

[anjro]

I just checked out the videos and I think I like the princess of hearts cut as well.

Also something I've noticed from the videos and just the dimensions of the princess of hearts vs radiants/cushions, it seems like the ct weight for princess of hearts might be lower, but the LxW dimensions are actually comparable to the larger ct weight stones from the radiant/cushion family. Is that typical?

As far as setting, I was thinking a micro pave and a simple 4 prong head with heart prongs. I was thinking that going with a simple head (not sure about terminology here) would be able to maximize the light coming into the diamond and really showcase the stone, but I'm open to other options, especially if that is not true.

 

[Draco]

What might I expect from that spot in the middle?

You can expect to see your skin color underneath if the diamond was placed on a finger with an open bottom.
It is not negligible and larger than a very large culet.
This white spot is due to leakage from a shallow pavilion.

 

[Draco]

You can expect a cetain amount of internal reflection at the bottom

You can expect a lot of internet reflections in any diamond, the critical angle in diamond is very low.
The leakage from the crown in the centre is not direct it bounces around a couple times before leaking out the bottom.

 

[chel180]

Here are a couple of cushions to consider of a similar size with nice asets for your budget.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10382/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10404/

I just checked out the videos and I think I like the princess of hearts cut as well.

Also something I've noticed from the videos and just the dimensions of the princess of hearts vs radiants/cushions, it seems like the ct weight for princess of hearts might be lower, but the LxW dimensions are actually comparable to the larger ct weight stones from the radiant/cushion family. Is that typical?

Very well cut stones will face up the size they should. Often less well cut stones will come up larger because diamonds are sold per carat, so they are cut to retain size not for maximum light return. So the best performers will usually face up smaller. A POW will usually face up smaller than a radiant/cushion of the same weight but that still depends on the actual stones under consideration. Personally I would still take that POW of the three if the budget allowed as what you lose in size you get in extra sparkle.

Is the ring for yourself or an ering?

As far as setting, I was thinking a micro pave and a simple 4 prong head with heart prongs. I was thinking that going with a simple head (not sure about terminology here) would be able to maximize the light coming into the diamond and really showcase the stone, but I'm open to other options, especially if that is not true.

A well cut stone will return all the light coming from above, not in from the sides so an open vs closed setting will not make much difference. So please dont let that affect you decision. Your setting idea is a classic tho that will suit any of these shapes great.

How about one of these?
http://www.goodoldgold.com/images/s...ISLEY W PAVE/195 sisley pave 3 view large.jpg
http://www.goodoldgold.com/images/s...PAVE/189 caroline round pave 3 view large.jpg
http://www.goodoldgold.com/images/classicjewelry/GOG1003/GOG1003 collage.jpg
Prongs can be altered to heart shaped on most settings.

What is a higher priority for you? Size or sparkle? What shape does you eye prefer?

 

[anjro]

I'm on my phone so ill check out the links later.

This is an ering. I'm struggling to reconcile the carat weight of the princess of hearts and the cost. But of the ones I've seen, it's the one I like the most too. I did some approx math on diamond to finger width ratio. While there are priorities for what I want in the ring, it's got to have a good balance. I think for her it's size, but there is also a threshold for size, it can't be too big. I've placed the POW on hold in the interim, but I feel like I need to research more about the POW cut before I fully commit.

Thanks for the input on the settings. Do you have a source on that? I'd like to read more about it if possible.

 

[chel180]

Thanks for the input on the settings. Do you have a source on that? I'd like to read more about it if possible.

??? What do you want a source for?

 

[anjro]

As far as setting, I'm thinking something like this:

http://www.shaneco.com/Jewelry-Catalog/Design-Your-Own/Rings/Engagement-Rings/Pave/Product-Detail.aspx?Engagement-Ring-Type=Single-Ring&I=48&X=41048729

I was hoping you might have a source regarding light entering a diamond and how a halo will have no negative impact on that.

 

[chel180]

As far as setting, I'm thinking something like this:

http://www.shaneco.com/Jewelry-Catalog/Design-Your-Own/Rings/Engagement-Rings/Pave/Product-Detail.aspx?Engagement-Ring-Type=Single-Ring&I=48&X=41048729

Very nice and will suit any of the above diamond cuts.

I was hoping you might have a source regarding light entering a diamond and how a halo will have no negative impact on that.

erm, my knowledge and experience of diamonds and physics..... And what I said corresponds to well cut diamonds only. Gemstones, antique and badly cut stones are another story.

What are your thoughts after sleeping on it? Which direction do you want to go in?

 

[anjro]

I placed the POH you linked on hold, I was hoping to find a setting from them but I haven't yet. I'm still waiting for one of their reps to reply to me about settings.

At the end of the day, if I can't find a setting from them that I like, I'd probably just buy the diamond and hope that shaneco can set it. Otherwise I have to find a setting

 

[chel180]

I think GOG sell stuller settings how about this one? It has the bonus of a small surprise diamond in the basket (you dont have to take the matching weddding band too)
http://www.stuller.com/products/68878/?groupId=110644

If not I know GOG does some custom work so I'm sure they can hook up up with exactly what you want. If you buy the diamond and ring from different places you often have to pay a fee for setting the stone in it. Also I think GOG offer 5% or so off setting when bought with a diamond. You letting you know for budgeting purposes.

That POH is a stunner!

 

[anjro]

Just in case anyone was curious on the status.

I did receive my refund check from WF (you have to put down the cost of the diamond to have them bring it in for imaging) and their service has been excellent in this whole process.

Still currently working with GOG for a setting. I would say high probability of getting this setting below if some of the information I've requested comes back positive.

http://www.stuller.com/products/67770/?groupId=102604

 

[sharonyanddave]

from a straight face down view, you would expect to see through the diamond in the white spot.

One might think incorrectly that we should see directly through the diamond like a window which is what happens in the case of a large culet for example, but that isn't the case here this diamond has a point culet. The diamond would be reflecting what is underneath it but it would be the area to the right and to the left of centre not what is underneath the direct centre of the diamond.



Edit: Too bad this 2 year old thread was only reopened due to a spammer and noone will read this or learn from it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have not read all of this, but it seems no one noticed that AGS 0 princess often have this 'hole'.
However because we have two eyes when we look at the stone face up - each eye is slightly displaced and most often one or both eyes will see a good light return.
Check out the Very Good example here http://ideal-scope.com/reference-chart-aset-images/

 

[sharonyanddave]

I have not read all of this, but it seems no one noticed that AGS 0 princess often have this 'hole'.
However because we have two eyes when we look at the stone face up - each eye is slightly displaced and most often one or both eyes will see a good light return.
Check out the Very Good example here http://ideal-scope.com/reference-chart-aset-images/

What AGS 0 princess my example? The stone in this thread is a radiant and not AGS 0.