Charlie Sheen

[arkieb1]

I don't think depression or mental illness is a viable excuse to knowingly (even if it was accidental) infect other people with HIV. I suspect much of his mental illness and incoherent ramblings we see now are a direct result of excessive drug use. We all have choices in life - many stars like Charlie, (Cory Monteith is another one that comes to mind) are unable to deal with fame and money and actively choose a path of self destruction.

I do agree it is a media circus....

 

[Jambalaya]

Well, I don't know a huge amount about these things, but I have heard that addiction is a serious illness that some can't control and isn't there thought to be an "addict" gene, including a gene for alcoholism? There was a former soccer star who just couldn't stop drinking, couldn't help himself, even after a liver transplant, and he died. If Sheen is so addicted that he can't help himself from taking drugs, and he's completely high, maybe he is very sick and not making choices in cold blood, so to speak. I think that's the point about real addiction - that addicts don't have a choice. Some drive themselves to death, and surely they wouldn't have made that choice if they could have made another one? I do wonder what Sheen would be like if he had normal mental health. He has done some awful things but I guess I'll keep an open mind because at this point it's just impossible to de-tangle who the real Sheen is from all his problems.

Regardless, I do feel sorry for anyone who has HIV. So awful. I know the advances in treatment have been huge but it's only a few pills each day that are between you and the development of illnesses that will take your life, and the treatment has side-effects, like making your bones thin which can lead to fractures, cardiovascular disease, liver and kidney trouble. And then, if anything happens to you like an independent cancer or a car crash, your health is already ten steps behind. Then there's all the psycho-social effects of being HIV positive. I know someone who has it and he's doing well now, but when he first found out he fell into a terrible, deep depression and tried to kill himself. Sheen has acted terribly over the years and I've never liked him, but I did feel sad and sorry when I heard his news. I guess I feel those choices have caught up with him in quite a dramatic manner.

About him infecting other people, I'm not sure he has done that. It's a he said/she said and they could just be out for money. So far, no one has come forward and said "Charlie Sheen has infected me with HIV."

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I don't think depression or mental illness is a viable excuse to knowingly (even if it was accidental) infect other people with HIV. I suspect much of his mental illness and incoherent ramblings we see now are a direct result of excessive drug use. We all have choices in life - many stars like Charlie, (Cory Monteith is another one that comes to mind) are unable to deal with fame and money and actively choose a path of self destruction.

I do agree it is a media circus....

Well, I actually work with mentally ill and addicted people daily so I *know* that many have impulse control issues and fail to see the big picture. Hypersexual behavior is a HUGE indicator of bipolar. I also am not willing to pass judgement on if he knowingly infected someone because for all I know he used condoms or told them. All I commented on is that I had compassion for him and don't agree that he, or anyone, deserves HIV. Seems a bit harsh. I also do not believe, nor does anyone I work with, that addiction is a "choice." It sounds so easy right? Who would CHOOSE to endanger their health, lose their family, spend money, ruin their career? They should just stop. But it is not a black or white issue and untreated mental health commonly LEADS to substance abuse. Substance abuse can LEAD to mental illness. It is well know that his father is in recovery and a child is 4 times more likely to struggle with addiction if a parent does. It is a miracle that any celeb finds recovery as his bottom looks much different than my patients'.

 

[arkieb1]

I don't think anyone deserves HIV, I don't think anyone deserves to be a drug addict. I suffer from depression and have a family made up of numerous alcoholics and addicts (including one that displays both narcissistic and hypersexual behaviour) all of whom, I personally believe, at some point, have to accept accountability, make peace with their demons and take ownership of their actions in the end.

We can blame genetics, family problems and so on all we like, what makes one person choose a path of substance abuse and another with the same genetics or life circumstances not? What makes one person who is mentally ill or depressed choose a path of substance abuse or suicide and the next a life of strained normality? Choice.

Celebrities, sports people, those we look up too with money and fame, can use it to help people they can also use it to carve out a path of self destruction irrespective of their family histories.

Can I feel compassion and sadness for people who are addicts, mentally ill or have issues? Yes, I do. But since you work with addicts Tacori I am sure you will agree neither you nor I can change or help someone who does not want to change or be helped. I am sorry if my comments have upset any of you, I agree addiction is not black and white - there are many unpleasant shades of grey in between. And I freely admit, I see someone like Charlie through jaded eyes.

I think what I was articulating badly is, these days I feel more compassion for the people left in the wake of people who cannot or refuse to take control over their own lives; the children, the wives, the husbands, the parents, the family members, the sexual partners, the guy at the bar that the addict punched in the face, the people that had their homes robbed to support the addicts habit, the people that got hit by the car the addict was driving and so on, than the actual addicts themselves.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

We can blame genetics, family problems and so on all we like, what makes one person choose a path of substance abuse and another with the same genetics or life circumstances not? What makes one person who is mentally ill or depressed choose a path of substance abuse or suicide and the next a life of strained normality? Choice.

I don't think it is choice, it is about coping skills. My patients have ZERO healthy coping skills. It is a delicate balance because I treat the mental health and addiction *at the same time.* Both are vital to treat in order to prevent relapse. I also hold my patients responsible for MANY things. Trust me. I am very challenging and call them out when needed. I always tell them it is easier to stay sober when you are than get sober when you are not. Once a mind altering substance enters the body it holds their brain hostage. I have seen some very good people struggle. The people who make it, in my professional POV, are those who learn how to deal with life on life's terms. That's tough. So I have to teach them how to cope. Just like I do not believe you choose to struggle with depression. I do not believe my patients WANT to struggle with addiction. Some people are dealt crappy cards. Or they are so immersed in a culture that encourages addiction OR discourages treatment. Lots and lots of moving parts. All I know is it is not my job to judge even with a million letters after my name. Not even Charlie Sheen.

ETA: Yes, I completely agree that I am not able to help anyone who does not want it. There are stages of change and I take it as a good sign if they show up for group. No matter what they say or what level of acceptance they have, I cannot help them if they don't show up. Part of my job is planting the seed that recovery is possible. Sometimes it blooms, sometimes it takes more time. I do not see anyone as hopeless.

 

[Gypsy]

My opinion, untainted by the rest of this thread, as I have not yet read through it.

I generally like Charlie Sheen as an actor.

But as a human being he leaves a lot to be desired. And that's an understatement.

I think it's who is HIV positive KNOWINGLY has unprotected sex, without disclosing the fact upfront and BEFORE even a kiss happens, is committing attempted manslaughter IMO. Assault with a deadly weapon.

And no, I'm not being dramatic or exaggerating. That's exactly what I would charge the person with if I were a DA.

And frankly if I were a star or famous I would have a WRITTEN disclosure and release of liability document, prepared by my lawyers, that I would make ANYONE I slept with sign prior to having sex with me. And no, I did not just make that up. It's a thing some stars do. To protect themselves from claims of rape from unscrupulous gold diggers. And I frankly agreed to it.

 

[gemgirl]

I feel sad for his family. His parents have suffered terribly at the hands of his screwed up self centered life, but his getting sick was to be expected. His life has been on a collision course of destruction for more than a decade. I knew, we both knew that he would turn up HIV positive at some point. Unlimited numbers of hookers in both L.A. and New York? I feel sorry for him.

 

[Jambalaya]

Gypsy, I agree with the attempted manslaughter charge if you are HIV positive and you don't disclose before sex. But it's well-known that you can't get it from kissing, and I would not expect, for example, someone I was on a date with and had a goodnight kiss with to be required to disclose such incredibly private, sensitive information.

 

[Jambalaya]

Tacori, I find your posts interesting and sensitive. It's also interesting to hear about the lack of impulse control and zero coping skills in some of your patients. There must be a scale of addiction strength, and it seems Charlie Sheen is at the extreme end of the addiction scale, like the sports star who could not stop drinking alcohol even after he got a new liver and he died. Surely no one wants to die (except people who commit suicide, which is a different topic) or burn through all their money, ruin their relationships, put their family under huge stress and pay millions to blackmailers. My feeling is that Charlie Sheen has one of the worse cases of addiction possible. I mean, he's addicted to everything - sex, drugs, drink, smoking, ****. He doesn't seem able to help himself, at all. Surely no one wants to blow 1.6m on prostitutes like he did last year. If he is a true addict at the extreme end of the scale, then together with his HIV, I feel rather sorry for him.

I agree he does seem like an awful person who has done some horrible things, but you don't know what he would be like if you took away all his addiction problems. Denise Richards says he was a different person during the years he was sober and drug-free.

Like Gemgirl, I also feel really bad for his family. They must be permanently at their wits' end over him.

 

[NTave]

I have no respect for Charlie Sheen. He knowingly had intercourse with unknowing women. Although honestly I'm surprised that a. Anyone would have intercourse unprotected with this man, and b. That he doesn't have at least one form of hepatitis and several other sexually or IV drug transmitted disease. He did find out around his "tiger blood" time, but to knowingly potentially hurt others is abusive and extremely scary and wrong. Charlie can afford the medications to keep his viral load of HIV low as long as he stays mentally stable enough to take his meds..this allows for a long and somewhat normal life for someone with HIV. I find it unfair that his partners may not have access to the same resources. Charlie did this because he thinks he is above others, and he is essentially a murderer if he doles out a sentence like that.

 

[Jambalaya]

Did he really have sex with women without disclosing? If that's true, then he really is despicable, not to mention a criminal.

 

[telephone89]

He is being accused of it, yes. He said he was honest with all his partners, they are coming out of the woodwork now and saying they had no idea.

 

[Jambalaya]

It's very difficult to know who's telling the truth, since the conversations about disclosure would have been private, so therefore it's all he said/she said. I know that there are other women who say he did tell them, and others who say that in their opinion he would not have put women at risk. He was also very adamant in his interview that he disclosed, and I also read that his household staff knew. If they knew, it's harder to imagine non-disclosure to partners if it was not a secret in his house. On the other hand, I have to admit that there are quite a few women accusing him. Possibly they're out for money, though. If you're a gold-digger, maybe you consider it worth it to say that he didn't disclose because it's probably easier for him to just fling 20k at you to get you to go away rather than flight every claim, and you've just made the easiest 20k ever. On the topic of disclosure, who knows who's telling the truth? As I said upthread, if I were him I would make all partners after the diagnosis sign a statement in the presence of lawyers that they knew about the HIV, to avoid this mess. But I think he's too screwed-up from his drugs etc to think straight.

 

[arkieb1]

I wanted to be fair and watched the interview from start to finish. I couple of things came to mind. Charlie is an actor. His interview seemed like a well scripted response which was probably written by his publicist or agents.

Next, I have lived with a family member that had/has very similar behaviour. Addicts are pathological liars. In fact they convince themselves they aren't lying because their minds are so addled from substance abuse and addictive behaviours they lose the ability to remember fact or fiction.

Finally the reasons he did the interview seemed to me to be twofold. One he was sick of being extorted for money and, second at the very end it seems to me like he might be hoping to work again to revive his career. Why does he want to do this? Again for money.

I think he is running out of money and both wanted the exploitation of his circumstances to stop and if my theory is true he wants to be able to earn more money again. The only lines I heard about helping people with HIV or doing something for others seem scripted and well rehearsed to me.

All I see is a true narcissist and a substance abuser wanting more money. People with issues like these will say and do anything to suck you into their web of lies provided they meet their own goals.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Tacori, I find your posts interesting and sensitive. It's also interesting to hear about the lack of impulse control and zero coping skills in some of your patients. There must be a scale of addiction strength, and it seems Charlie Sheen is at the extreme end of the addiction scale, like the sports star who could not stop drinking alcohol even after he got a new liver and he died. Surely no one wants to die (except people who commit suicide, which is a different topic) or burn through all their money, ruin their relationships, put their family under huge stress and pay millions to blackmailers. My feeling is that Charlie Sheen has one of the worse cases of addiction possible. I mean, he's addicted to everything - sex, drugs, drink, smoking, ****. He doesn't seem able to help himself, at all. Surely no one wants to blow 1.6m on prostitutes like he did last year. If he is a true addict at the extreme end of the scale, then together with his HIV, I feel rather sorry for him.

Thanks. I am very passionate about my field. Yes, there are "degrees." According to the DSM-V people are diagnosed mild, moderate, or severe. I think the more someone has, the more they have to lose. It is much harder for my "higher functioning" patients to change than people who are facing serious consequences (legal, financial, social, etc). I actually work with transplant patients so I am very familiar with the idea that "choosing life" is not enough for some folks. They do not want to die, but not all of them are able to stay sober. That really proves to me what a powerful and cunning disease addiction is. If it was a "choice," I would be happily unemployed.

 

[Jambalaya]

I don't really know what to think. Everything you say, Arkie, about the selfishness of addicts is true, but presumably it's because they are compelled to feed their addiction. It seems that Sheen's level of addiction is off the charts.

I think that it's quite possible that he's not a nice person and has certainly done horrible things, but that in the overall big picture he's to be pitied because addiction seems to have control of him, making a fool of him like when he had his public meltdown, and now he's chronically ill with a disease that has great psycho-social effects as well as physical ones. His life has been completely ruined by his compulsions, and someone gave HIV to him, so he's a victim in that sense too.

If it turns out that he did not disclose his status to his partners, I would probably revise that opinion.

 

[Jambalaya]

Posting at the same time, Tacori! Yes, Sheen's troubles just seem to have him in their grasp like some kind of puppet, and surely his level of addiction must be severe. My friend, a recovering alcoholic, thinks that one day we'll find genes that are responsible for addiction.

 

[azstonie]

I wanted to be fair and watched the interview from start to finish. I couple of things came to mind. Charlie is an actor. His interview seemed like a well scripted response which was probably written by his publicist or agents.

Next, I have lived with a family member that had/has very similar behaviour. Addicts are pathological liars. In fact they convince themselves they aren't lying because their minds are so addled from substance abuse and addictive behaviours they lose the ability to remember fact or fiction.

Finally the reasons he did the interview seemed to me to be twofold. One he was sick of being extorted for money and, second at the very end it seems to me like he might be hoping to work again to revive his career. Why does he want to do this? Again for money.

I think he is running out of money and both wanted the exploitation of his circumstances to stop and if my theory is true he wants to be able to earn more money again. The only lines I heard about helping people with HIV or doing something for others seem scripted and well rehearsed to me.

All I see is a true narcissist and a substance abuser wanting more money. People with issues like these will say and do anything to suck you into their web of lies provided they meet their own goals.

X1.

My family has people with personality disorders in it and thus I am very familiar with the "Charlie Sheens" of the world and their callous disregard for anyone but themselves. The extra oozing sleaze that just drips off this guy when he is off script is something. There is footage of him after the interview waiting to be driven away and his mugging for the camera was all leering, winking sleezebaggery.

One thing I thought on watching the entire interview to add to Arkie is the interview was a perfect way for Sheen to continue on his merry way with the prostitutes and anyone else who has sex with him and who then try to sue him or blackmail him.

"Hey, its common knowledge I have HIV, you didn't do YOUR due diligence before you had sex with me! I'm off the hook!"

The interview and disclosure is all good for Charlie.

He's finally listening to his "brand-ers" and publicists. For me, everything he said was scripted and anticipated. If you looked at his eyes and his body language, you could tell there were a few questions he wanted to tell Matt Lauer to go eff himself but he still spit out the script.

 

[Jambalaya]

It's the sheer scale of Sheen's problems and addictions that make me think he is in the grip of mental illness rather than making clear-headed decisions. I mean, I've never seen anything like it. The word "debauched" just doesn't cover it, and the addictions are multiple - ****, drink, sex, drugs. He spent 1.6m on prostitutes last year according to his company accounts, and that must be a compulsion.

 

[LLJsmom]

I wanted to be fair and watched the interview from start to finish. I couple of things came to mind. Charlie is an actor. His interview seemed like a well scripted response which was probably written by his publicist or agents.

Next, I have lived with a family member that had/has very similar behaviour. Addicts are pathological liars. In fact they convince themselves they aren't lying because their minds are so addled from substance abuse and addictive behaviours they lose the ability to remember fact or fiction.

Finally the reasons he did the interview seemed to me to be twofold. One he was sick of being extorted for money and, second at the very end it seems to me like he might be hoping to work again to revive his career. Why does he want to do this? Again for money.

I think he is running out of money and both wanted the exploitation of his circumstances to stop and if my theory is true he wants to be able to earn more money again. The only lines I heard about helping people with HIV or doing something for others seem scripted and well rehearsed to me.

All I see is a true narcissist and a substance abuser wanting more money. People with issues like these will say and do anything to suck you into their web of lies provided they meet their own goals.

X1.

My family has people with personality disorders in it and thus I am very familiar with the "Charlie Sheens" of the world and their callous disregard for anyone but themselves. The extra oozing sleaze that just drips off this guy when he is off script is something. There is footage of him after the interview waiting to be driven away and his mugging for the camera was all leering, winking sleezebaggery.

One thing I thought on watching the entire interview to add to Arkie is the interview was a perfect way for Sheen to continue on his merry way with the prostitutes and anyone else who has sex with him and who then try to sue him or blackmail him.

"Hey, its common knowledge I have HIV, you didn't do YOUR due diligence before you had sex with me! I'm off the hook!"

The interview and disclosure is all good for Charlie.

He's finally listening to his "brand-ers" and publicists. For me, everything he said was scripted and anticipated. If you looked at his eyes and his body language, you could tell there were a few questions he wanted to tell Matt Lauer to go eff himself but he still spit out the script.

+1. For me, Arkie and AZ said it all. DISGUSTING EXCUSE OF A HUMAN BEING. No empathy or compassion here.

 

[Trekkie]

Some of the responses on this thread... Wow. Just, wow.

As an addict with nine years clean who still struggles with mental illness, thank you for your empathy, Tacori. <3

 

[arkieb1]

Some of the responses on this thread... Wow. Just, wow.

As an addict with nine years clean who still struggles with mental illness, thank you for your empathy, Tacori. <3

Did you behave like Charlie Sheen? I don't speak for anyone else, I have both empathy and compassion for people with both addictions and mental illnesses but on the flip side of that I have a family member that exhibits very similar behaviour to his. As you can probably tell that has had a profoundly negative impact on me, it came very close to destroying my life too.... Once again if my comments have upset anyone that was never my intention.

 

[Trekkie]

Some of the responses on this thread... Wow. Just, wow.

As an addict with nine years clean who still struggles with mental illness, thank you for your empathy, Tacori. <3

Did you behave like Charlie Sheen? I don't speak for anyone else, I have both empathy and compassion for people with both addictions and mental illnesses but on the flip side of that I have a family member that exhibits very similar behaviour to his. As you can probably tell that has had a profoundly negative impact on me, it came very close to destroying my life too.... Once again if my comments have upset anyone that was never my intention.

I'm not upset, I'm just taken aback. I think I expected more empathy from this community.

No, I don't currently engage in this behaviour but there have been times in my life that I have. I'm well aware of the destruction caused by this behaviour, as I am not only an addict, but the child of one too.

I also can't believe the "lynch him" mentality around his HIV diagnosis. He's in the US! Over there HIV is as easily treatable as diabetes (if not more so!), and he already has the best medical care available to him. HIV is not a death sentence. Not in the US.

I used to work at an Aids centre in a town with one of the highest HIV rates in the world. In my town, 1 in 3 pregnant women is HIV+. And you know what? Not even with all the poverty over here is it regarded as a death sentence.

It IS possible to safely engage in unprotected sex with an HIV+ person. I have friends who are HIV+ and planning second and third kids, all of whom are HIV-, as are the partners with whom they had the kids.

I even know of people in the US who were born HIV+ and didn't discover it until much later. The standard of medical care there is just that good.

Should he have disclosed his status before engaging in sex? Yes, he undoubtedly should have. And I believe him when he says yes, he did, and that's what landed him in this situation in the first place.

 

[arkieb1]

Some of the responses on this thread... Wow. Just, wow.

As an addict with nine years clean who still struggles with mental illness, thank you for your empathy, Tacori. <3

Did you behave like Charlie Sheen? I don't speak for anyone else, I have both empathy and compassion for people with both addictions and mental illnesses but on the flip side of that I have a family member that exhibits very similar behaviour to his. As you can probably tell that has had a profoundly negative impact on me, it came very close to destroying my life too.... Once again if my comments have upset anyone that was never my intention.

I'm not upset, I'm just taken aback. I think I expected more empathy from this community.

No, I don't currently engage in this behaviour but there have been times in my life that I have. I'm well aware of the destruction caused by this behaviour, as I am not only an addict, but the child of one too.

I also can't believe the "lynch him" mentality around his HIV diagnosis. He's in the US! Over there HIV is as easily treatable as diabetes (if not more so!), and he already has the best medical care available to him. HIV is not a death sentence. Not in the US.

I used to work at an Aids centre in a town with one of the highest HIV rates in the world. In my town, 1 in 3 pregnant women is HIV+. And you know what? Not even with all the poverty over here is it regarded as a death sentence.

It IS possible to safely engage in unprotected sex with an HIV+ person. I have friends who are HIV+ and planning second and third kids, all of whom are HIV-, as are the partners with whom they had the kids.

I even know of people in the US who were born HIV+ and didn't discover it until much later. The standard of medical care there is just that good.

Should he have disclosed his status before engaging in sex? Yes, he undoubtedly should have. And I believe him when he says yes, he did, and that's what landed him in this situation in the first place.

I don't have a "lynch him" mentality over his diagnosis. I sincerely hope HIV and AIDs are both fully eradicated for everyone around the globe in the near future. This isn't about me not being sad or sympathetic about anyone who has HIV, I am simply coming from the POV of a person who spent over two decades picking up the pieces of someone not unlike him. After being lied too, and left to deal with the fallout of someone else's actions time and time and time again, for me personally I struggle to believe a word he says.

If indeed he has changed, then that is great. He clearly states in the interview he has not given up alcohol. The fact he is only revealing his condition at this very point in time, suggests to me that he was either about to become a media disaster when the story got out and his agent and PR people are handling it in this way or he is as stated above running out of money and wished to end any further exploitation/financial blackmail (which he admits) and he is possibly attempting to also revive his career.

Perhaps if we see him as a vocal advocate for people with HIV in the future, I can be more gracious towards him with my views but until that happens all I see (based on my own personal experience,) is a guy in damage control.

The great thing about this forum is that we all contribute different points of view. My opinions are exactly that, mine, some people might agree with me others may not, I accept that, nothing in anything I have said in this thread was meant to upset or offend anyone. People pick up one or two things about someone's written words, focus on that, take it out of context without necessarily understanding the thoughts behind those words.

 

[House Cat]

I think it is very dangerous for a person to project their "normalness" onto a mentally ill person. I think so far, we have realized that we shouldn't do this to a depressed person. We have figured out that when someone is clinically depressed, we can't tell them to just snap out of it, but we haven't figured out that MANIA is a very dangerous state of mind and it isn't someone acting on selfish choices.

Mania isn't some happy state of mind where people feel really awesome and sexy, where they laugh all the time and are the life of the party. It certainly isn't where someone is thinking straight and has great judgment. Mania is so dangerous that people with bipolar disorder commit suicide more often while manic than they do when depressed, why? Because their judgment is completely off-line. Mania has its many symptoms that I won't get into but I do want to share that a lot of times it comes with psychosis, otherwise the person is only a hair away from psychosis at any point in time. So keep that in mind..one hair away from a psychotic break and you think the person is making sound and calculated choices? No. Once again, this is not something that you can tell someone to snap out of. Mania requires medical intervention.

Mania ruins lives...not just the lives of the person with BP, but their family members and loved ones.

With all of that said, I still believe people need to be responsible for their actions. Charlie Sheen has a choice to medicate. Then again, his illness might be lying to him and telling him that he is fine and doesn't need medication. Mania can be seductive like that. People have varying degrees of illness, varying degrees of empathy, etc and it all has to do with their childhoods and genetics. Who am I to fully judge his state of illness?

 

[House Cat]

I think it is very dangerous for a person to project their "normalness" onto a mentally ill person. I think so far, we have realized that we shouldn't do this to a depressed person. We have figured out that when someone is clinically depressed, we can't tell them to just snap out of it, but we haven't figured out that MANIA is a very dangerous state of mind and it isn't someone acting on selfish choices.

Mania isn't some happy state of mind where people feel really awesome and sexy, where they laugh all the time and are the life of the party. It certainly isn't where someone is thinking straight and has great judgment. Mania is so dangerous that people with bipolar disorder commit suicide more often while manic than they do when depressed, why? Because their judgment is completely off-line. Mania has its many symptoms that I won't get into but I do want to share that a lot of times it comes with psychosis, otherwise the person is only a hair away from psychosis at any point in time. So keep that in mind..one hair away from a psychotic break and you think the person is making sound and calculated choices? No. Once again, this is not something that you can tell someone to snap out of. Mania requires medical intervention.

Mania ruins lives...not just the lives of the person with BP, but their family members and loved ones.

With all of that said, I still believe people need to be responsible for their actions. Charlie Sheen has a choice to medicate. Then again, his illness might be lying to him and telling him that he is fine and doesn't need medication. Mania can be seductive like that. People have varying degrees of illness, varying degrees of empathy, etc and it all has to do with their childhoods and genetics. Who am I to fully judge his state of illness?

I think I left out some really key points and my post made no sense. Some people who are manic will party a lot. Hypersexuality is a very common symptom of mania. But once a person is full blown manic, they are very rarely "euphoric" for long. The mania turns on them and that is why it gets very dangerous.

I really shouldn't post first thing in the morning because I really don't know how to improve upon that post without getting seriously long winded. I stand by the part of my post that states that a person is close to psychosis.



When Charlie Sheen went off the deep end.: If he lost it because of the news of having HIV, that is pretty typical of a lot of people I know with bipolar disorder. Really bad news or incredible stress can bring on a manic swing, especially if drugs and alcohol are involved and the person isn't medicated.

 

[Jambalaya]

House Cat, I did live for a few years with someone who had an untreated mental illness and there is no doubt in my mind that, when it got really bad, the illness was working his mouth like a puppet - it had him in its grasp and he was saying things he never would have said in his right mind. So what you said about mania being seductive, I could see what you mean. He was never like Sheen, but he really was a different person once he received proper treatment and took two pills a day, combined with therapy. Totally different person. But those years before he was diagnosed were tough and he nearly drove me to distraction. I haven't been exposed to anyone as extreme as Sheen, but enough to know that mental illness is real and that it can absolutely take over a person. And drive their relatives to the end of their rope, too. I have sympathy for what Arkie went through.

I don't know Sheen, and what he has really done, or not done. But whatever he's done in the past, I feel very sorry for him now, because he has obviously found it devastating to be diagnosed with HIV and has felt he had to keep it a secret for four long years in Hollywood, been the victim of extortion and blackmail, and he still hasn't overcome his addiction problems, which are severe. I wouldn't be surprised if he's very lonely. He seems to be surrounded by people who just want to take money from a vulnerable person - I do believe his addiction problems make him vulnerable to people with questionable motives - and his current mess with all the blackmail, extortion etc just go to show that he was unable to handle the situation and protect himself from the prejudice, the rumor mill, etc.

I think Arkie's probably right that he was out of options so he revealed his status, but the way I see it is that someone leaked it, a major news outlet was going to publish it, and so his hand was forced. He should have been able to keep his health status private, if he wanted to, but he's basically been forced to expose incredibly private health information. It must have been horrendous to have to reveal such a delicate, private health matter on prime time TV. No matter what he's done, I saw a person who had been hunted and pinned down, and people on the web were jeering at him, and I felt sorry for him.

I am not sure if he did have sex without disclosing. Apparently he broke up with Bree in early 2011 and was diagnosed much later that year. So far, no one has come forward and said he infected them.

He does have a rap sheet of domestic violence against women, which makes me sick. But again, people do sometimes get violent when they are off their face on certain drugs. I wonder, again, what he would be like if he had zero addiction troubles. His first wife says he was completely different when clean and sober.

 

[Jambalaya]

House Cat - "Really bad news or incredible stress can bring on a manic swing" - yes, and he basically fell off the wagon when his marriage to Denise Richards broke up. He was an anti-vaxxer and they disagreed strongly on that, and after his marriage fell apart he went back to his old ways and unfortunately got together with a woman who also had a bad drug problem that she hadn't overcome, Brooke Mueller. It's such a pity because he had had years of being drug-free and sober at that point, had a loyal wife, two children....so sad. I think you're right that stress can bring huge challenges to someone in recovery, and I also think that the stress of his diagnosis just sent him barreling on a downward spiral. I don't think I've ever seen a public figure as troubled as Sheen, and I really hope that his burdens have lightened now that everything is out in the open. It would be wonderful if he could find his way back to how he was during those healthy years with Denise Richards.

 

[House Cat]

I don't think anyone deserves HIV, I don't think anyone deserves to be a drug addict. I suffer from depression and have a family made up of numerous alcoholics and addicts (including one that displays both narcissistic and hypersexual behaviour) all of whom, I personally believe, at some point, have to accept accountability, make peace with their demons and take ownership of their actions in the end.

We can blame genetics, family problems and so on all we like, what makes one person choose a path of substance abuse and another with the same genetics or life circumstances not? What makes one person who is mentally ill or depressed choose a path of substance abuse or suicide and the next a life of strained normality? Choice.

Celebrities, sports people, those we look up too with money and fame, can use it to help people they can also use it to carve out a path of self destruction irrespective of their family histories.

Can I feel compassion and sadness for people who are addicts, mentally ill or have issues? Yes, I do. But since you work with addicts Tacori I am sure you will agree neither you nor I can change or help someone who does not want to change or be helped. I am sorry if my comments have upset any of you, I agree addiction is not black and white - there are many unpleasant shades of grey in between. And I freely admit, I see someone like Charlie through jaded eyes.

I think what I was articulating badly is, these days I feel more compassion for the people left in the wake of people who cannot or refuse to take control over their own lives; the children, the wives, the husbands, the parents, the family members, the sexual partners, the guy at the bar that the addict punched in the face, the people that had their homes robbed to support the addicts habit, the people that got hit by the car the addict was driving and so on, than the actual addicts themselves.

I have a family much like yours. I can't even be in contact with my mom because she is an addict and a narcissist. I never see most of my family because they are so embroiled in their mental illnesses and addictions that they are unsafe for me. In contrast, I have bipolar disorder and I am very, very serious about my stability. It is the things that my family (my husband and children) went through when I got very sick 11 years ago that motivates me to swallow 11 pills a day and go to therapy each week to face demons that I would rather leave in the dark. I don't ever want them to go through that pain again.

I have an ongoing conversation with my therapist, "why doesn't my mom love me enough to want to get better and have a relationship with me?" or "why don't any of the members of my family see what they are doing to themselves and especially others (their kids) and want to get better?" For a long time I didn't understand and couldn't understand because I see what my untreated illness has done to others and I choose to be well. It seems like a pretty simple choice to me.

My therapist has explained that everyone is made up of a set of completely different experiences. The experiences form our choices. I might have had someone in my life who gave me more love and empathy than the others in my family (and I DID!!) this is what gives me the ability to choose to be stable for my family. My mom didn't have many pivotal people in her life who gave her empathy. This is why she can't see me or her family as a reason to be well.

I am with you. The family members, the children, the victims, they are the ones I feel sorry for too. I'm just not 100% convinced that everyone has a choice to get well. Maybe it is my heart getting in the way because if I believed that everyone had a choice, I would have some painful stuff to face. But in the case of someone like my mom, I really see a person who is totally unaware that she even has a problem, so there is no choice to be made. In her mind,it is truly a case of everyone else is the problem, not her.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I can say from both a personal and professional POV that untreated mental illness and substance abuse IS NOT PERSONAL. Their drug use has nothing to do with anyone else. Family takes it personally. I get it. I get the sense that some people's personal interactions have influenced their opinions on Charlie Sheen perhaps unfairly. It is easy to do, but I *know* from the thousands of people I have worked with that not everyone gets better. It is not as easy as "making a choice." That is sad for both them and their family. The "choice" does not end with treatment. Let me explain. A person suffering from dual issues (mental health and AODA) has to first ask for help, attend therapy/groups/rehab/detox/etc, TAKE MEDICATION (people really struggle with that one), stop taking drugs/alcohol and to CONTINUE to remain sober for the rest of their lives. Wow. Charlie Sheen is CLEARLY a mentally ill person. Anyone that denies that has little knowledge on the signs and symptoms. I work with many actively manic bipolar patients. People LOVE being manic and they are unable to sometimes see the need for treatment because mania feels good (I imagine). But it is very dangerous and though I could not diagnose him without working with him, he seems manic.

Has anyone confirmed he has infected them with HIV? I have only seen articles with past partners claiming they are negative.