Not everyone wants kids

[zoebartlett]

I used to get asked about when we were having kids, but it's stopped pretty much now. I think people know by now that it's not going to happen. I love kids, I work with them all day long, I love my friends' and family's kids, but I don't have the burning desire to have one of my own.

I will say though that I wasn't really prepared for what that meant in terms of maintaining my friendships. That's been really hard to adjust to. I'd love to make new friends but it's hard to do. I don't know if it's because people feel settled in their lives and don't feel the need to add to their list of friends or if it's something else.

Yes this is so true. I had a few very close friends who once they had kids despite my efforts and theirs we just grew apart. It is hard when you are at a different stage of life than others to maintain those relationships. They are busy with children and a new way of life and well life just becomes hectic, busy, stressful and full of other things that take (rightly so) center stage. Just the way it is. Sad but a fact.

Yeah, it's frustrating. I've been long-time friends with people who I used to chat with often and see a few times per year (we live one state apart, probably just over an hour's drive from one another). Life gets busy, yada yada yada...now our friendship has been reduced to the occasional text and seeing each other mayyyybe once a year or once every two years. Maybe I'm just plain wrong in feeling a bit hurt by that, and I really do try not to take it personally. I don't put pressure on my friends at all, and if they begin messages with "I'm so sorry I haven't kept in touch...," I'm quick to tell them they don't need to apologize. I get it, like I said. It still stings though.

Missy, if I lived closer, I'd totally ask you to hang out.

 

[AGBF]

I think people can just be weird over the issue of children full stop. I remember our local newsreader ( who's also a journalist and something of an identity in our community) wrote an article about how she hadn't wanted children when she was younger or had allowed time to get away from her and by the time she had wanted children it had been too late. She'd included in the article things like how she'd already traveled extensively and that going out for lattes and brunches at cafes had lost some of its appeal. She was taken aback (as was I) by the vitriol that occurred in response to her exploration of the topic of, wanting a child but having that choice taken away through no longer being biologically able to. The backlash accused her of all kinds of selfishness even though she had made it clear in the article that she did enjoy the life she had chosen and appreciated all the good things it had allowed her to have.

It would be nice to see a bit more of a supportive attitude brought to the issue - whether people want kids or want them and can't have them, don't want them, how many they want.

I know what you are saying, Polished, but I have become jaded. The woman who wrote the article was open about some second thoughts she had had about her life. She was reflective and honest. One cannot do that in the popular media.

It is asking too much to expect others to have empathy or to take the time to think about what it might be like to lead lives different from the the kind of lives they live themselves.

AGBF

 

[zoebartlett]

I actually don't think it's rude to ask when or if someone is planning on having kids. I think it's an honest curiosity, not a question with malice or thoughtlessness behind it. I do begin to feel uncomfortable though when I give them my answer* and I get more probing questions such as "Why?" or when people try to convince me.

* (It's not going to happen -- I have all the kids I need during the school year. I really love them but I also love sending them home at the end of the day and going home to a quiet house.).

There are days when I wonder if we made the right decision because of a few reasons, but I think that's normal.

 

[CJ2008]

I actually don't think it's rude to ask when or if someone is planning on having kids. I think it's an honest curiosity, not a question with malice or thoughtlessness behind it. I do begin to feel uncomfortable though when I give them my answer* and I get more probing questions such as "Why?" or when people try to convince me.

* (It's not going to happen -- I have all the kids I need during the school year. I really love them but I also love sending them home at the end of the day and going home to a quiet house.).

There are days when I wonder if we made the right decision because of a few reasons, but I think that's normal.

I see what you're saying Zoe.

At the same time just because someone means a question without any malice and just plain curiosity doesn't make it any less of an intrusion or putting the person on the spot.

I could be really curious about how much money you make, or how much you paid for your your house, or how many times a week you have sex...

You get the picture.

Just a very personal question - and maybe for 8 out of the 10 people that you ask, the decision to have / not have kids wasn't agonizing at all. And for them, that question won't bother them at all - but for the 2 that are battling with it, or came to a decision for health reasons or whatever - you're putting them on the spot.

You just never know - that's what makes it rude.

 

[Polished]

I think people can just be weird over the issue of children full stop. I remember our local newsreader ( who's also a journalist and something of an identity in our community) wrote an article about how she hadn't wanted children when she was younger or had allowed time to get away from her and by the time she had wanted children it had been too late. She'd included in the article things like how she'd already traveled extensively and that going out for lattes and brunches at cafes had lost some of its appeal. She was taken aback (as was I) by the vitriol that occurred in response to her exploration of the topic of, wanting a child but having that choice taken away through no longer being biologically able to. The backlash accused her of all kinds of selfishness even though she had made it clear in the article that she did enjoy the life she had chosen and appreciated all the good things it had allowed her to have.

It would be nice to see a bit more of a supportive attitude brought to the issue - whether people want kids or want them and can't have them, don't want them, how many they want.

I know what you are saying, Polished, but I have become jaded. The woman who wrote the article was open about some second thoughts she had had about her life. She was reflective and honest. One cannot do that in the popular media.

It is asking too much to expect others to have empathy or to take the time to think about what it might be like to lead lives different from the the kind of lives they live themselves.

AGBF

You haven't become jaded AGBF, you've become astute. Great observations.

 

[Tekate]

I heard all the time... you have 2 boys! come on try for a girl.. my no good exhusband did say once and it's true, women are womens' worst enemies.. we women have been known to tear each other up even today n 2015!...

Childless and childfree terms to me are different, one is less and one is free of.. I never asked anyone if they were going to have kids because one doesn't know if a person has been trying and can't..or a plethora of other things that could be happening. When I had one son and was trying desperately I had a woman (a professional computer programmer btw) tell me that you aren't a 'real' family till you have 2 kids, it broke my spirit.. we should cheer other women on in their choices in today's society.

At the end of the day I think people in general can just be rude and inappropriate, no matter your choices. My child-free friends get crap from people, I get crap from people for only having 1 ("oh isn't she lonely?" Um no. "how will she ever learn to share?" Um just fine, thanks. "don't you worry that you'll regret not having more?" Um no) and my friends who have 3 or more kids get crap for that as well!

Women simply cannot win. And the worst part is that the crap is mostly flying from other women. LAME.

 

[missy]

I used to get asked about when we were having kids, but it's stopped pretty much now. I think people know by now that it's not going to happen. I love kids, I work with them all day long, I love my friends' and family's kids, but I don't have the burning desire to have one of my own.

I will say though that I wasn't really prepared for what that meant in terms of maintaining my friendships. That's been really hard to adjust to. I'd love to make new friends but it's hard to do. I don't know if it's because people feel settled in their lives and don't feel the need to add to their list of friends or if it's something else.

Yes this is so true. I had a few very close friends who once they had kids despite my efforts and theirs we just grew apart. It is hard when you are at a different stage of life than others to maintain those relationships. They are busy with children and a new way of life and well life just becomes hectic, busy, stressful and full of other things that take (rightly so) center stage. Just the way it is. Sad but a fact.

Yeah, it's frustrating. I've been long-time friends with people who I used to chat with often and see a few times per year (we live one state apart, probably just over an hour's drive from one another). Life gets busy, yada yada yada...now our friendship has been reduced to the occasional text and seeing each other mayyyybe once a year or once every two years. Maybe I'm just plain wrong in feeling a bit hurt by that, and I really do try not to take it personally. I don't put pressure on my friends at all, and if they begin messages with "I'm so sorry I haven't kept in touch...," I'm quick to tell them they don't need to apologize. I get it, like I said. It still stings though.

Missy, if I lived closer, I'd totally ask you to hang out.

Haha huge ditto Zoe. Let me know if you are ever in the NYC area and we will GTG for sure.

Yes it is disappointing and sometimes it does sting a bit I agree with that. I have friends from college with whom I still feel a very close connection though despite not having seen for years or even chat on the phone very much except for a couple of times per year. It's weird because whenever we do chat it's like we pick right up from where we were like we never missed a beat. So yeah while our lives have taken us in completely different directions (she's an attorney who got married right out of law school had 3 kids and actually never practiced law as she was and still is a stay at home mom in a suburb a few hours away) and we hardly see each other or even chat that often we still feel close. But that is more the exception than the rule. If I don't see someone for years or chat on the phone with often the friendship changes and we grow apart.

I think people can just be weird over the issue of children full stop. I remember our local newsreader ( who's also a journalist and something of an identity in our community) wrote an article about how she hadn't wanted children when she was younger or had allowed time to get away from her and by the time she had wanted children it had been too late. She'd included in the article things like how she'd already traveled extensively and that going out for lattes and brunches at cafes had lost some of its appeal. She was taken aback (as was I) by the vitriol that occurred in response to her exploration of the topic of, wanting a child but having that choice taken away through no longer being biologically able to. The backlash accused her of all kinds of selfishness even though she had made it clear in the article that she did enjoy the life she had chosen and appreciated all the good things it had allowed her to have.

It would be nice to see a bit more of a supportive attitude brought to the issue - whether people want kids or want them and can't have them, don't want them, how many they want.

I know what you are saying, Polished, but I have become jaded. The woman who wrote the article was open about some second thoughts she had had about her life. She was reflective and honest. One cannot do that in the popular media.

It is asking too much to expect others to have empathy or to take the time to think about what it might be like to lead lives different from the the kind of lives they live themselves.

AGBF

You haven't become jaded AGBF, you've become astute. Great observations.

Deb, I am with Polished here. You are not so much jaded as just acutely aware of the way things are. Many people have trouble putting themselves in another's shoes and that is on them. Sometimes I feel I have too much empathy and it does make me too sensitive and I think you are similar in that respect. We feel things acutely because we are sensitive to others in a way that many have trouble getting at times. And yes it does hurt sometimes to the point of just wanting to give up on people. I think that is why I prefer (for the most part) animals and children. They are innocent and sweet and never malicious in any way.

I actually don't think it's rude to ask when or if someone is planning on having kids. I think it's an honest curiosity, not a question with malice or thoughtlessness behind it. I do begin to feel uncomfortable though when I give them my answer* and I get more probing questions such as "Why?" or when people try to convince me.

* (It's not going to happen -- I have all the kids I need during the school year. I really love them but I also love sending them home at the end of the day and going home to a quiet house.).

There are days when I wonder if we made the right decision because of a few reasons, but I think that's normal.

I see what you're saying Zoe.

At the same time just because someone means a question without any malice and just plain curiosity doesn't make it any less of an intrusion or putting the person on the spot.

I could be really curious about how much money you make, or how much you paid for your your house, or how many times a week you have sex...

You get the picture.

Just a very personal question - and maybe for 8 out of the 10 people that you ask, the decision to have / not have kids wasn't agonizing at all. And for them, that question won't bother them at all - but for the 2 that are battling with it, or came to a decision for health reasons or whatever - you're putting them on the spot.

You just never know - that's what makes it rude.

CJ, yes that is so true. Personally I don't mind if someone asks me if I have kids or plan on having kids as long as they don't debate the issue with me or try to get me to change my mind. However you are so right in that the question can offend some and you never know who that will be so one shouldn't ask the question if they don't know for sure if the person they are asking wont' be offended.

 

[jazzoboe]

Yeah, there is a big difference to me between my best friend asking once if we think we are going to have kids and my MIL asking at least once a month for the past three years when we're going to have a baby already. And I just turned 28, so she recently added a "but you're going to be 30 soon!!!" to it. Ugh. I'm 90% sure we do want kids but I'm not in a great hurry. Sometimes I want to tell her we're never having kids just to see if she has a heart attack. Seriously, it's really none of your business, and I would think you'd be happy that your son is working hard to pay off debts and build savings before having babies, but it's pretty clear she's way more concerned with when she'll have a grandbaby to play with whenever she feels like it than how it will affect our lives.

Sorry that just turned into a vent.... We really need to move farther away from the in-laws lol

But in all seriousness, I sometimes have doubts about whether I really want kids, so I think it's good that we're waiting for now. I see so many fantastic things about both options and think people can have very fulfilled lives either way. But it is absolutely a personal choice that everyone should make for themselves (and with their partners, of course). No one should ever try to make someone feel bad about their choice to have children or not.

 

[House Cat]

I think people can just be weird over the issue of children full stop. I remember our local newsreader ( who's also a journalist and something of an identity in our community) wrote an article about how she hadn't wanted children when she was younger or had allowed time to get away from her and by the time she had wanted children it had been too late. She'd included in the article things like how she'd already traveled extensively and that going out for lattes and brunches at cafes had lost some of its appeal. She was taken aback (as was I) by the vitriol that occurred in response to her exploration of the topic of, wanting a child but having that choice taken away through no longer being biologically able to. The backlash accused her of all kinds of selfishness even though she had made it clear in the article that she did enjoy the life she had chosen and appreciated all the good things it had allowed her to have.

It would be nice to see a bit more of a supportive attitude brought to the issue - whether people want kids or want them and can't have them, don't want them, how many they want.

I know what you are saying, Polished, but I have become jaded. The woman who wrote the article was open about some second thoughts she had had about her life. She was reflective and honest. One cannot do that in the popular media.

It is asking too much to expect others to have empathy or to take the time to think about what it might be like to lead lives different from the the kind of lives they live themselves.

AGBF

Sigh...

This backlash and vitriol...

It extends into the world of mothering too...

Dare to wean your child before two years? You're a horrible mother. Dare to breastfeed your child for two years? You've got some sick thing going on with your child. GOD FORBID you give your kid JUICE! Cloth diapering is the only way to go, you are an earth hating heathen if you use disposables. Natural water births are the only way to feel like a woman. If you have drugs during birth, you are giving into western medicine brainwashing. Don't even talk to the women if you've had a c-section because all c-sections are unnecessary, the body knows how to birth babies, even breach 11 pound babies, you just need to try harder.

Need I go on?


It really boils down to women need to be more supportive of one another. We deal with so many struggles that only other women can understand. It would feel really great if we could all bury the hatchet and begin to feel like allies.

I once watched an Oprah episode that tried to analyze this behavior in women. They said when ANY group behaves in this way it is due to deprivation. Women feel deprived, so they step on each other trying to get what little rights, emotional resources, physical resources, etc. there is out there for themselves. They said if we could stop doing this and begin to develop those things for ourselves as a group, we wouldn't feel the need to behave this way.

 

[iLander]

Okay, here's something that I've always wanted to ask, and never dared to (which is why I love this forum): when you are old and alone, what family will you fall back on, IF needed?

I know there is no guarantee that your children will even be speaking to you by then, but since I'm the youngest in my entire freaking family group, I know there will be no one else around, but Maybe my 2 kids.

My DH totally had to take care of his mom in her old age, she had no money, no communication with her 2 other sons, no husband. I shudder to think what would have happened if he hadn't stepped up. My grandmother was taken in of by one of her sons and his wife. I see these examples in my own life, so wondering how others manage. But, on the other hand, DH's grandmother had 7 kids, no one took her in and she checked herself into a retirement home and promptly died.

As far as not wanting kids, I agree it is a choice and there is Absolutely nothing wrong with it. I don't think it's selfish, or any of that other nonsense. It's a perfectly acceptable choice and no one's business but your own.

But I am curious about this one thing . . . don't hate me for asking.

 

[CJ2008]

Okay, here's something that I've always wanted to ask, and never dared to (which is why I love this forum): when you are old and alone, what family will you fall back on, IF needed?

I know there is no guarantee that your children will even be speaking to you by then, but since I'm the youngest in my entire freaking family group, I know there will be no one else around, but Maybe my 2 kids.

My DH totally had to take care of his mom in her old age, she had no money, no communication with her 2 other sons, no husband. I shudder to think what would have happened if he hadn't stepped up. My grandmother was taken in of by one of her sons and his wife. I see these examples in my own life, so wondering how others manage. But, on the other hand, DH's grandmother had 7 kids, no one took her in and she checked herself into a retirement home and promptly died.

As far as not wanting kids, I agree it is a choice and there is Absolutely nothing wrong with it. I don't think it's selfish, or any of that other nonsense. It's a perfectly acceptable choice and no one's business but your own.

But I am curious about this one thing . . . don't hate me for asking.

Nothing wrong for asking this, it's a fair question, especially on this forum! That's what I love about this forum too, among many other things.

The answer is, I don't know.

Maybe a niece.

I just *know* this is not enough reason for me to have kids. For the off chance they may take care of me.

Is it scary to be completely alone when I think about it? Yes - sometimes even when I go to the supermarket and I pick up cat litter I think damn when I'm 90 how am I going to carry this by myself?

So I am sure when I'm really old and if I really am all alone and not able to take care of myself it will be scary.

 

[iLander]

Okay, here's something that I've always wanted to ask, and never dared to (which is why I love this forum): when you are old and alone, what family will you fall back on, IF needed?

I know there is no guarantee that your children will even be speaking to you by then, but since I'm the youngest in my entire freaking family group, I know there will be no one else around, but Maybe my 2 kids.

My DH totally had to take care of his mom in her old age, she had no money, no communication with her 2 other sons, no husband. I shudder to think what would have happened if he hadn't stepped up. My grandmother was taken in of by one of her sons and his wife. I see these examples in my own life, so wondering how others manage. But, on the other hand, DH's grandmother had 7 kids, no one took her in and she checked herself into a retirement home and promptly died.

As far as not wanting kids, I agree it is a choice and there is Absolutely nothing wrong with it. I don't think it's selfish, or any of that other nonsense. It's a perfectly acceptable choice and no one's business but your own.

But I am curious about this one thing . . . don't hate me for asking.

Nothing wrong for asking this, it's a fair question, especially on this forum! That's what I love about this forum too, among many other things.

The answer is, I don't know.

Maybe a niece.

I just *know* this is not enough reason for me to have kids. For the off chance they may take care of me.

Is it scary to be completely alone when I think about it? Yes - sometimes even when I go to the supermarket and I pick up cat litter I think damn when I'm 90 how am I going to carry this by myself?

So I am sure when I'm really old and if I really am all alone and not able to take care of myself it will be scary.

You're right, it is Not a good reason to have kids. Didn't mean to imply that it was. At all.

You could always check yourself into a retirement home like my DH's grandma. If I were to do that, I'm not sure my life would be much different than someone without kids; maybe an occasional visit from one of the kids.

So, I guess it's not that big of a deal. Thank you for answering

 

[CJ2008]

Yeah, there is a big difference to me between my best friend asking once if we think we are going to have kids and my MIL asking at least once a month for the past three years when we're going to have a baby already. And I just turned 28, so she recently added a "but you're going to be 30 soon!!!" to it. Ugh. I'm 90% sure we do want kids but I'm not in a great hurry. Sometimes I want to tell her we're never having kids just to see if she has a heart attack. Seriously, it's really none of your business, and I would think you'd be happy that your son is working hard to pay off debts and build savings before having babies, but it's pretty clear she's way more concerned with when she'll have a grandbaby to play with whenever she feels like it than how it will affect our lives.

Sorry that just turned into a vent.... We really need to move farther away from the in-laws lol

But in all seriousness, I sometimes have doubts about whether I really want kids, so I think it's good that we're waiting for now. I see so many fantastic things about both options and think people can have very fulfilled lives either way. But it is absolutely a personal choice that everyone should make for themselves (and with their partners, of course). No one should ever try to make someone feel bad about their choice to have children or not.

I agree...

If I have a close relationship with someone and and I trust them so completely that I *know* they have good intentions and zero judgment and zero intention of convincing me one way or another that's one thing (but yeah even then I don't want to get asked the question every time I see you, or unless I bring it up again) - family saying that I think it's rude, and hurtful. I've had that happen only twice - once by an uncle once by DH's parents (hated it both times but I realize I am so lucky to have it had happen only twice so I'm good with it). And people I hardly know, or acquaintances, etc. - yeah...don't ask.

CJ, yes that is so true. Personally I don't mind if someone asks me if I have kids or plan on having kids as long as they don't debate the issue with me or try to get me to change my mind. However you are so right in that the question can offend some and you never know who that will be so one shouldn't ask the question if they don't know for sure if the person they are asking wont' be offended.

You know what missy I don't know if it's that the question offends me. I guess what offends me is that the person thought it was OK to ask it, you know? Unless we have a very very close relationship and we've gotten into deep conversations before and have trusted each other with our innermost thoughts and fears, don't ask me such a personal question. It just has a very high chance of being loaded for a lot of people.

And you know, come to think of it, I've never ever had that question be asked without some kind of debate following. Ever. Even if it's a very subtle, mild debate, it's a debate nonetheless. And this is with people I love and consider very close to me.

 

[Tanzigrrl]

iLander, I actually have been asked that question, numerous times, so thank you for not asking a person face-to-face and saving it for a discussion on this board.

My answer is, "with all the money I save from not having to pay for diapers, daycare, college, etc. etc., I'll have plenty of resources to pay for my own elder care when it is needed."

My real answer is you cannot depend on someone else, a child, what have you, to take care of you. For as often as childfree by choice women hear how selfish they are for NOT having kids, how selfish is it to have a kid just so there's someone to take care of you when you're old? KWIM?

 

[telephone89]

Okay, here's something that I've always wanted to ask, and never dared to (which is why I love this forum): when you are old and alone, what family will you fall back on, IF needed?

I know there is no guarantee that your children will even be speaking to you by then, but since I'm the youngest in my entire freaking family group, I know there will be no one else around, but Maybe my 2 kids.

My DH totally had to take care of his mom in her old age, she had no money, no communication with her 2 other sons, no husband. I shudder to think what would have happened if he hadn't stepped up. My grandmother was taken in of by one of her sons and his wife. I see these examples in my own life, so wondering how others manage. But, on the other hand, DH's grandmother had 7 kids, no one took her in and she checked herself into a retirement home and promptly died.

As far as not wanting kids, I agree it is a choice and there is Absolutely nothing wrong with it. I don't think it's selfish, or any of that other nonsense. It's a perfectly acceptable choice and no one's business but your own.

But I am curious about this one thing . . . don't hate me for asking.

I remember reading something similar a while back, and all I could think of is 'WOW that is heartless - giving birth to your future caretakers' haha. I know that isn't what you meant, as per your reply to CJ but yeah, that's also what came to mind.

If we don't have children, I have other family. I am an only child, but was very close to my cousins growing up. Their children are essentially my neices and nephews, and I treat them as such. I would take care of my aunts and uncles should they require elderly care, so I look at it the same way.

Also, I think its really important to properly plan for the future, ie RRSP, savings, etc. So that you don't HAVE to rely on other people to take care of you. If I got to that point, I'd want to live out my days in a retirement facility or have an inhome nurse come by. I would never want to burden my children with that anyways. The only thing I'd need help with is the choice - where I'd hope other family would help out with that decision.

 

[CJ2008]

Okay, here's something that I've always wanted to ask, and never dared to (which is why I love this forum): when you are old and alone, what family will you fall back on, IF needed?

I know there is no guarantee that your children will even be speaking to you by then, but since I'm the youngest in my entire freaking family group, I know there will be no one else around, but Maybe my 2 kids.

My DH totally had to take care of his mom in her old age, she had no money, no communication with her 2 other sons, no husband. I shudder to think what would have happened if he hadn't stepped up. My grandmother was taken in of by one of her sons and his wife. I see these examples in my own life, so wondering how others manage. But, on the other hand, DH's grandmother had 7 kids, no one took her in and she checked herself into a retirement home and promptly died.

As far as not wanting kids, I agree it is a choice and there is Absolutely nothing wrong with it. I don't think it's selfish, or any of that other nonsense. It's a perfectly acceptable choice and no one's business but your own.

But I am curious about this one thing . . . don't hate me for asking.

Nothing wrong for asking this, it's a fair question, especially on this forum! That's what I love about this forum too, among many other things.

The answer is, I don't know.

Maybe a niece.

I just *know* this is not enough reason for me to have kids. For the off chance they may take care of me.

Is it scary to be completely alone when I think about it? Yes - sometimes even when I go to the supermarket and I pick up cat litter I think damn when I'm 90 how am I going to carry this by myself?

So I am sure when I'm really old and if I really am all alone and not able to take care of myself it will be scary.

You're right, it is Not a good reason to have kids. Didn't mean to imply that it was. At all.

You could always check yourself into a retirement home like my DH's grandma. If I were to do that, I'm not sure my life would be much different than someone without kids; maybe an occasional visit from one of the kids.

So, I guess it's not that big of a deal. Thank you for answering

Oh I think getting old and not being able to take care of yourself is a big deal, and sucks.

And it *will* be worse if you have nobody around. Definitely.

But...there is nothing that I want to do NOW kids wise (I know you didn't imply this, just saying) or anything else to possibly offset or prevent that in the future. However maybe in my 70s my mindset will be different - and I'll start to think about options - a retirement home or (if my niece is OK with it and I can tell that it is other than her saying it) moving closer to one of my nieces, etc. Or maybe just be really really nice to my neighbors.

 

[CJ2008]

tanzigrrl and telephone

All kidding aside, yes, my mindset is the same as yours.

I don't like to burden anyone NOW so I imagine I will be the same way when I get old.

So I too have the mindset that I have to set myself up properly so that I don't have to rely on anybody else or burden anyone with my care.

 

[iLander]

iLander, I actually have been asked that question, numerous times, so thank you for not asking a person face-to-face and saving it for a discussion on this board.

My answer is, "with all the money I save from not having to pay for diapers, daycare, college, etc. etc., I'll have plenty of resources to pay for my own elder care when it is needed."

My real answer is you cannot depend on someone else, a child, what have you, to take care of you. For as often as childfree by choice women hear how selfish they are for NOT having kids, how selfish is it to have a kid just so there's someone to take care of you when you're old? KWIM?

Lord, that is SOOO true. Between their private schools, college, 100,000 lego sets, and half a ton of clothes, I think I have spent enough to spend my retirement years on a luxury liner. With a toy boy!

 

[zoebartlett]

I get what you're saying, CJ. While I don't really see it as intrusive, I definitely understand that others may feel differently.

iLander, your question is what makes me upset at times. While we're several years from making a plan for when we may need assistance, it's something I think about. Not only the emotional aspect but the logistic and legal parts, too. Not that I want to automatically assume others will take care of my husband and/or me, but I hope family members on my side and his would all help look out for everyone.

When is the time to bring it up? How do you go about that anyway?

My husband and I were talking about death the other night, actually. If you never marry or are divorced without many close loved ones in your life, who should pay for your funeral (or cremation, burial, etc.)? Do siblings (or nieces/nephews) chip in if they're able to cover the costs? Do you set aside money to cover the costs yourself and then designate someone to carry out your wishes? What if you don't have anyone? I know there's not one right answer but what's the general consensus? Gosh, this is depressing, but all of this has been on my mind for the past few months.

 

[missy]

I get what you're saying, CJ. While I don't really see it as intrusive, I definitely understand that others may feel differently.

iLander, your question is what makes me upset at times. While we're several years from making a plan for when we may need assistance, it's something I think about. Not only the emotional aspect but the logistic and legal parts, too. Not that I want to automatically assume others will take care of my husband and/or me, but I hope family members on my side and his would all help look out for everyone.

When is the time to bring it up? How do you go about that anyway?

My husband and I were talking about death the other night, actually. If you never marry or are divorced without many close loved ones in your life, who should pay for your funeral (or cremation, burial, etc.)? Do siblings (or nieces/nephews) chip in if they're able to cover the costs? Do you set aside money to cover the costs yourself and then designate someone to carry out your wishes? What if you don't have anyone? I know there's not one right answer but what's the general consensus? Gosh, this is depressing, but all of this has been on my mind for the past few months.

I think everyone should have this info spelled out somewhere plus money to cover the expenses. I don't think it is anyone else's responsibility. Your loved ones can use the money from your estate when you die to cover funeral etc expenses.

To answer iLander's question if we had children I would not want them to have to care for me when I am too old and feeble to do it for myself. I would never want to burden my children or nieces and nephew that way. That is why CCRCs and the like exist. I don't think it fair to expect or even want your kids to take care of you when/if you cannot take care of yourself. I would want my loved ones to come and visit me of course.

 

[telephone89]

I get what you're saying, CJ. While I don't really see it as intrusive, I definitely understand that others may feel differently.

iLander, your question is what makes me upset at times. While we're several years from making a plan for when we may need assistance, it's something I think about. Not only the emotional aspect but the logistic and legal parts, too. Not that I want to automatically assume others will take care of my husband and/or me, but I hope family members on my side and his would all help look out for everyone.

When is the time to bring it up? How do you go about that anyway?

My husband and I were talking about death the other night, actually. If you never marry or are divorced without many close loved ones in your life, who should pay for your funeral (or cremation, burial, etc.)? Do siblings (or nieces/nephews) chip in if they're able to cover the costs? Do you set aside money to cover the costs yourself and then designate someone to carry out your wishes? What if you don't have anyone? I know there's not one right answer but what's the general consensus? Gosh, this is depressing, but all of this has been on my mind for the past few months.

If you don't have ANYONE, ie you are totally alone, no family, it doesn't seem like it would matter. I mean, what do the police/hospitals do with people who die that have no one? I wouldn't worry about it much if you literally had no one, maybe thats morbid of me lol.

But I do wonder about when to bring it up. My partners parents are much older than mine (we are similar age, but his parents had children much later) and are not going to be in a position to take care of themselves soon. In their culture, the children take in the aged parents, but that isn't something that he or his brother are used to, as they've grown up here. And tbh, it's not something that I want. But dear god, how do I bring THAT up?! Oy. I feel like a monster just thinking about how that would go down.

 

[aljdewey]

I generally find that most of us who don't have children do still have many other wonderful relationships; there is no need to be 'alone' even if you elect to pay someone for eldercare services.

I'm incredibly close to my niece and nephew, and both of them have said several times that they'll look out for me. I know they mean well, but I also know that doesn't mean they'll necessarily offer consistent companionship any more than some people's own children do.

My plan is to plan well financially for care services, and tend to my relationships so that those I love will want to provide some companionship so I'm not alone.

 

[Maria D]

I hate how it feels like there's a need to justify ourselves either way.

There is no need. I think you said it perfectly in the prior post: "I just don't want to do it." That's enough! Even if one doesn't have a demanding professional career along with making art and working out, it's fine. What's wrong with someone just wanting a life where you can relax when you want to, pick up and go when you want to, and generally just be responsible for yourself? Nothing, in my book.

I've never understood why people who have absolutely no stake in the matter care whether others procreate. To me it's like caring whether or not someone else decides to get a dog. I'm not equating children with pets, but I really can't imagine caring if other people have either!

 

[zoebartlett]

Telephone, my husband brought that up, as well. I didn't mean if someone had NO one out there or if family members couldn't be found. I was thinking of estranged siblings or relatives who hadn't tended to relationships as Alj mentioned, but I didn't specify that I guess.

Alj, we're doing the same thing as far as putting away funds for elder care and maintaining relationships. I've seen what can happen when people don't and then it's too late. It's sad, really.

 

[Funion]

Chemgirl
Don't despair. I have heard all the rude comments ( don't worry you will change your mind ) I have had a great life child-free and wouldn't change a thing! I think these people say those things to make themselves feel better because for some reason they are uncomfortable with the decision to be intentionally childless. I cannot imagine wanting to have kids and not being able to, and having these idiots ask me the questions I've been asked. Those are the poor people I feel sorry for.

 

[kenny]

When someone crosses your boundaries with comments like, "So, when are YOU going to have kids?" they are giving you permission to respond in kind with, "I don't want kids and how arrogant & rude of you to assume everyone is just like you".

Or ask them, can the earth really accommodate more than 7,271,019,554 humans?
Be sure to mention having a kid is the worst thing any recycling Prius driver could ever do for the environment.
Tell them the your carbon footprint stops walking when your embalming fluid leaks from your coffin and contaminates the water table.
The carbon footprint of every parent goes on forever and ever so, if you do the math, can eventually turn into a million footprints.

They need to stop giving tax deductions for little feet and give tax deductions for us who don't have kids.

 

[azstonie]

Back when people used to ask me this i responded thusly:

How soon do you need to know?

 

[Sky56]

I never wanted to have kids and I found out I was infertile at age 22. I'm turning 60 soon and am happy and fulfilled.
Only after I turned 40 to 45 rude people stopped asking why or when we will have kids. Women are other womens' worst enemies. I've heard "I feel sorry for you" several times. I'm happily married and have a wonderful life.

Most young women and women who are in early middle age who say they don't want kids eventually have them. I've seen it so many times. Biology is powerful!

I've taken care of my ill parents and mother-in-law, helping through illness until death. I've advocated for them in hospitals and doctors' offices. If I live to be old, I may not have that support But I don't worry about it.

What's important is to follow your dreams. If others' dreams are different from yours, don't squash their dreams or make yourself look like an ass with negative, judgmental remarks.

 

[KaeKae]

Interesting thread. I do have children, but my brother and I (though most of the responsibility had fallen to my brother due to geography) are experiencing the question of "who will take care of you?" with our dear aunt. Though not a choice, she and our uncle did not have kids. In the 60s, dealing with infertility just wasn't a science, they were told to keep trying, and eventually they understood that they would have a great life together, whether or not kids happened.

About twenty years ago, she and I wound up talking about it, and yes, she found herself answering the question of "when?" It was quite upsetting for her. A friend suggested she tell the Nosey Nellies "I don't like kids." A total lie, but apparently that really did stop some nasty commenters in their tracks.

Fast forward to now and my brother and I are honored to be able to be her advocates. As I said, 90% (or more) of it falls to him, because I live across the country, but I do help when I can.

 

[LLJsmom]

Back when people used to ask me this i responded thusly:

How soon do you need to know?