shape
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First timer looking to buy a ruby. Help appreciated.

Agno

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
5
Hello everyone. I have been lurking here for a month or two trying to collect as much info about rubies as possible before my purchase. I have been combing through the recommended vendors and visited the LA Jewelry district to get a feel for what I am buying. I have found a lot of prospects online but am hesitant to pull the trigger. Nearly every stone I saw in person was pretty unimpressive. Many of them showing clear signs of being glass filled, and many others that were extremely included or having serious flaws.

In reading through many threads here, one recurring theme is the suggestion to post here with what people are looking to buy and what their budget is. So... I am looking for a Natural Ruby. Not too picky on the cut. Round, oval, or cushion will work for me. I'll find a setting to compliment whatever I end up with. Of course an un-heated ruby would be nice, but at a budget of around $5k, I am under no delusions about the likelihood of ending up with something heated. 1.5k to 2.5k seem to be the weight range I have gravitated toward thus far. Any smaller doesn't look significant enough and any larger usually prices me out.

Any guidance will be appreciated. looking forward to hearing any suggestions or recommendations.
 

gingercurls

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
400
Hi Agno,

You are right that you are looking for something rare and it is a relatively difficult request. It is good that you are open to heat treatment because that will significantly open up your options. I have a few questions for you. What type of red are you looking for? Meaning do you want a pure red, blue-based red, a purplish red, pinkish red, orangish red, etc.? Rubies that are pure red and blueish red tend to command the highest prices. If you are not super sensitive to modifiers, you might be able to get more bang for your buck if you get a ruby that is slightly orange or purple.

You could also consider getting a pink sapphire. In the trade and in the market, the line between reddish pink sapphire and ruby is often blurry. It is possible that you could find a stone that has been labeled as a pink sapphire but very closely resembles a pinkish ruby. This will dramatically decrease the cost of the stone.

I have attended a few round table events with Roger Dery and he had some lovely rubies and red sapphires. I think that it would be well worth it to contact him. He has a large inventory and not everything is listed on his website. I would also check out gemfix.com. They have a decent selection of mostly heat treated rubies and you might find something that fits your needs.

Here is a link to a reddish pink sapphire that I think looks lovely: https://www.johndyergems.com/catalog_pages/gemstone-Sapphire3691.html

This ebay seller also has several nice options: http://www.ebay.com/sch/wilds-globalminerals/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
 

ilovegems95

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
10
gingercurls|1440999589|3921464 said:
Hi Agno,

Here is a link to a reddish pink sapphire that I think looks lovely: https://www.johndyergems.com/catalog_pages/gemstone-Sapphire3691.html

This ebay seller also has several nice options: http://www.ebay.com/sch/wilds-globalminerals/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Those are some beautiful stones but seem to be out of his budget, some more economical options:

If you care about the origin, this is about as affordable as a good quality Burmese ruby gets, the inclusions are minimal and it has a strong red color. It comes with a Japanese lab report but I think the seller would through in an AGL report as it is a $5000 stone. (Not sure if it is heated but my guess would be it is, ask the seller to make sure)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/japan-quality-Ruby-1-17CT-Loose-Gemstone-/121731904028?hash=item1c57c9721c

This seller has some very nice pieces and the ability to "make an offer". Always negotiate a price and don't be afraid to flat out message a seller to see what they will settle at.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Natural-/3827/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=starruby_in&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=5000&_sop=3

Especially like these ones:

1.12-Carat Eye-Clean Vivid Pigeon Blood Red Unheated Ruby, 6.74 x 5.45 x 4.14 mm (cut is unique)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-12-Carat-Eye-Clean-Vivid-Pigeon-Blood-Red-Unheated-Ruby-6-74-x-5-45-x-4-14-mm-/271367109642?hash=item3f2ebd7c0a

"2.01-Carat Deep Pinkish Red Unheated Pear-Shaped Ruby (GRS),8.53 x 6.51 mm"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-01-Carat-Deep-Pinkish-Red-Unheated-Pear-Shaped-Ruby-GRS-8-53-x-6-51-mm-/271359917839?hash=item3f2e4fbf0f

If Clarity is super important (heated):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-GIA-CERTIFICATE-TOP-QUALITY-ANTIQUE-CUSHION-NATURAL-BLOOD-RED-RUBY-1-5ct-/121713737749?hash=item1c56b44015

Many more options:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Natural-/3827/i.html?_from=R40&_dcat=3827&Color=Pink%7CPurple%7CRed%7C%21&_udlo=&_udhi=5000&LH_AllListings=1&_nkw=unheated&_sop=3
 

Marlow

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,726
If you live in the USA you are not allowed to import a burmese ruby. You can try a ruby from Mozambique.

To buy a nice unheated or heat only without residues of flux is extremely difficult...Good luck!
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,364
S

SparkliesLuver

Guest
You say your budget is around $5k. Does that mean there's some wiggle room? The reason I ask is because Gemfix has an untreated ruby for $7k. I think it's gorgeous, but it'd need to be seen in-person to evaluate. It's 1.27cts, 6.3mm, VVS.

ruby_584_a.jpg
 

drruby

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
165
first you need a deep budget

typical mistakes you find all through the ruby market

a. every ruby is hit with heat in the mine fields period it's low heat and cannot be detected since high heat is what changes the silk

b. never buy online, you really need to see any ruby IN PERSON

c. look in daylight and see how much transparency you see, there's a lot of difference between certs as to transparncy

d. color is probably the main thing with deep reds the top colors, Asian's prefer a little tint towards pink and American's like a purple tint

e. if it's not high heat treated expect to find lots of inclusions, but since you are okay with heat, realize the silk and clarity will change for clarity enhancement and brilliance is by product of high heat

f. NO SUCH THING AS NO HEAT I repeat

g. as to grades, VS in most real ruby dealers eyes is eye included, you just don't see no eye inclusion rubies with any size, if you have one with no high heat and great color, well it's a very, very rare ruby and that stuff now commands 1 Million plus a carat at auctions like the Graff Ruby

That all being said, take a trip to Bangkok and there you will find way more rubies to really start to get an understanding of what a ruby should and does look like

Now you do have the GIA now bashing what IMO was a nice low pricing gem for most people not looking at investments, that being the upper end of LGF rubies, how the GIA in 2006 issued a report saying jewelers found them durable for wear and okay for benchwork is now completely contradicted.

So if you are open to realizing LGF on the high end (yes there's a vast difference in LGF stones) are pretty durable for jewelry wear and if you disclose to a jeweler it's LGF it won't be hit with pickle and it is considered a workable stone as the GIA admitted it's 2006 report which is now completely contradicted by the GIA experts and none are experts in rubies.

Come one Scarratt is an author on what Pearls and the Brit crown jewels. For centuries the Brits had a Spinel in their collection listed as a ruby, LOL, so what do the Brits know about Rubies?

95% or more all rubies eventually pass through cutters and wholesalers in Chatanburi on the way to Bangkok, so that is where anyone interested in the KING OF GEMS needs to spend a week on vacation and learning about rubies.

For most people without huge budgets a nice grade small diamond mount with a LGF high end ruby would be a nice bling factor piece and if you wear rubber gloves to clean your oven and dishes it won't get etched from toxic chemicals.

So 1500 or so in okay small diamonds with a nice 4 carat LGF ruby should set you back 2000 to maybe 3000.

And you can take it to almost any jeweler who can loop it and none will usually be able to say LGF or not.

Most gem studies say LGF is okay for jeweler and even benchwork, but now all you hear is disinformation IMO about LGF.

So if you can afford the real thing, go to Bangkok if you bring an expert go to Chatanburi, that's where you buy larger rubies without 100 middlemen and vastly inflated prices.

My two cents

Good luck and rubies are very very rare, even super high end LGF is rare IMO.
 

Agno

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
5
gingercurls|1440999589|3921464 said:
Hi Agno,

You are right that you are looking for something rare and it is a relatively difficult request. It is good that you are open to heat treatment because that will significantly open up your options. I have a few questions for you. What type of red are you looking for? Meaning do you want a pure red, blue-based red, a purplish red, pinkish red, orangish red, etc.? Rubies that are pure red and blueish red tend to command the highest prices. If you are not super sensitive to modifiers, you might be able to get more bang for your buck if you get a ruby that is slightly orange or purple.

I am definitely not tied to a perfectly RED ruby. Any other hues aside from pink could suit my situation well. It seems like the Pinkish-red variety are extremely common though. Any examples of rubies with other colors represented?
 

Agno

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
5
ilovegems95|1441005034|3921482 said:
gingercurls|1440999589|3921464 said:
Hi Agno,

Here is a link to a reddish pink sapphire that I think looks lovely: https://www.johndyergems.com/catalog_pages/gemstone-Sapphire3691.html

This ebay seller also has several nice options: http://www.ebay.com/sch/wilds-globalminerals/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Those are some beautiful stones but seem to be out of his budget, some more economical options:

If you care about the origin, this is about as affordable as a good quality Burmese ruby gets, the inclusions are minimal and it has a strong red color. It comes with a Japanese lab report but I think the seller would through in an AGL report as it is a $5000 stone. (Not sure if it is heated but my guess would be it is, ask the seller to make sure)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/japan-quality-Ruby-1-17CT-Loose-Gemstone-/121731904028?hash=item1c57c9721c

This seller has some very nice pieces and the ability to "make an offer". Always negotiate a price and don't be afraid to flat out message a seller to see what they will settle at.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Natural-/3827/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=starruby_in&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=5000&_sop=3

Especially like these ones:

1.12-Carat Eye-Clean Vivid Pigeon Blood Red Unheated Ruby, 6.74 x 5.45 x 4.14 mm (cut is unique)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-12-Carat-Eye-Clean-Vivid-Pigeon-Blood-Red-Unheated-Ruby-6-74-x-5-45-x-4-14-mm-/271367109642?hash=item3f2ebd7c0a

"2.01-Carat Deep Pinkish Red Unheated Pear-Shaped Ruby (GRS),8.53 x 6.51 mm"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-01-Carat-Deep-Pinkish-Red-Unheated-Pear-Shaped-Ruby-GRS-8-53-x-6-51-mm-/271359917839?hash=item3f2e4fbf0f

If Clarity is super important (heated):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-GIA-CERTIFICATE-TOP-QUALITY-ANTIQUE-CUSHION-NATURAL-BLOOD-RED-RUBY-1-5ct-/121713737749?hash=item1c56b44015

Many more options:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Natural-/3827/i.html?_from=R40&_dcat=3827&Color=Pink%7CPurple%7CRed%7C%21&_udlo=&_udhi=5000&LH_AllListings=1&_nkw=unheated&_sop=3

A couple of options you suggested were very desireable. Is Ebay a safe place to spend $3k-$5k on a stone from a seller in Thailand? I generally wont spend more than $250 through ebay as that is how much they will refund on purchases if I am remembering correctly. Do you use Paypal to send money? Sending this much online gives me the heeby geeeby's :|
 

GregS

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Messages
719
ilovegems95|1441005034|3921482 said:
gingercurls|1440999589|3921464 said:
Hi Agno,

Here is a link to a reddish pink sapphire that I think looks lovely: https://www.johndyergems.com/catalog_pages/gemstone-Sapphire3691.html

This ebay seller also has several nice options: http://www.ebay.com/sch/wilds-globalminerals/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Those are some beautiful stones but seem to be out of his budget, some more economical options:

If you care about the origin, this is about as affordable as a good quality Burmese ruby gets, the inclusions are minimal and it has a strong red color. It comes with a Japanese lab report but I think the seller would through in an AGL report as it is a $5000 stone. (Not sure if it is heated but my guess would be it is, ask the seller to make sure)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/japan-quality-Ruby-1-17CT-Loose-Gemstone-/121731904028?hash=item1c57c9721c

This seller has some very nice pieces and the ability to "make an offer". Always negotiate a price and don't be afraid to flat out message a seller to see what they will settle at.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Natural-/3827/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=starruby_in&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=5000&_sop=3

Especially like these ones:

1.12-Carat Eye-Clean Vivid Pigeon Blood Red Unheated Ruby, 6.74 x 5.45 x 4.14 mm (cut is unique)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-12-Carat-Eye-Clean-Vivid-Pigeon-Blood-Red-Unheated-Ruby-6-74-x-5-45-x-4-14-mm-/271367109642?hash=item3f2ebd7c0a

"2.01-Carat Deep Pinkish Red Unheated Pear-Shaped Ruby (GRS),8.53 x 6.51 mm"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-01-Carat-Deep-Pinkish-Red-Unheated-Pear-Shaped-Ruby-GRS-8-53-x-6-51-mm-/271359917839?hash=item3f2e4fbf0f

If Clarity is super important (heated):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-GIA-CERTIFICATE-TOP-QUALITY-ANTIQUE-CUSHION-NATURAL-BLOOD-RED-RUBY-1-5ct-/121713737749?hash=item1c56b44015

Many more options:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Natural-/3827/i.html?_from=R40&_dcat=3827&Color=Pink%7CPurple%7CRed%7C%21&_udlo=&_udhi=5000&LH_AllListings=1&_nkw=unheated&_sop=3
Every single one of these links gives me the Willies. With your budget you should have no problem finding a very nice 1 ct. stone. Stay away from overseas Ebay sellers, especially ones with photos that are so doctored it's impossible to tell what the stone truly looks like.
 

Agno

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
5
"Every single one of these links gives me the Willies. With your budget you should have no problem finding a very nice 1 ct. stone. Stay away from overseas Ebay sellers, especially ones with photos that are so doctored it's impossible to tell what the stone truly looks like."

Glad to see that I am not the only one feeling like this. Even the recommended vendors are a bit spooky. I would just really like to see what I am buying. Any places in Southern California that have a decent inventory of decent stones?
 

GregS

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Messages
719
Yes, Marc Sarosi of AfricaGems is in California, southern California I believe. I have bought several stones from him over the years, kept a few and returned a few. Gemfix is another one that's in California, I bought a stone from them and returned it, they were easy to deal with.
 

drruby

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
165
GRS 3.0 Carats

Heated 27K carat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-18-Carat-GRS-Certified-Red-Ruby-Oval-Cut-Gemstone-108266-RU-719-/391237134062

Non Heated 23K carat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-06-Carat-GRS-Certified-Red-Ruby-Oval-Cut-Gemstone-108266-RU-710/400985222515

Non Heated 25K carat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-COLLECTION-VALUE-3-04Ct-GRS-CERTIFIED-GENUINE-NATURAL-UNHEATED-RUBY-/252067927519

Non Heated 2K not 3K Burma 36K carat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-93-Carat-GRS-Certified-Red-Ruby-Oval-Cut-Gemstone-108266-RU-672-/400985182438

Like I said nice rubies are through the roof IF 100% real and decent clarity and weight

It's why I tell people at 5K range budgets invest in a wow/bling mount with an empty center stone for a nice 3Ct Ruby

Put your money into a gorgeous mount with clean common carbon aka diamonds

Get a high end LGFF ruby for almost nothing

Down the road when you can invest in a nice clean big ruby with a major lab cert on it, then you pick up the center stone

Sure you can buy opaque certified ruby junk with no heat for minor dough on 'ebay'

But even ebay has high end center stone rubies and you start to see way over 50K for small stones in the 2ct to 3ct range

So of course most people thinking ruby think nice clear and red

The reality you can't get anything you will be happy with in 100% ruby heated or not in the range of budget you have
 

Agno

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
5
drruby|1441162743|3922472 said:
GRS 3.0 Carats

Heated 27K carat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-18-Carat-GRS-Certified-Red-Ruby-Oval-Cut-Gemstone-108266-RU-719-/391237134062

Non Heated 23K carat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-06-Carat-GRS-Certified-Red-Ruby-Oval-Cut-Gemstone-108266-RU-710/400985222515

Non Heated 25K carat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-COLLECTION-VALUE-3-04Ct-GRS-CERTIFIED-GENUINE-NATURAL-UNHEATED-RUBY-/252067927519

Non Heated 2K not 3K Burma 36K carat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-93-Carat-GRS-Certified-Red-Ruby-Oval-Cut-Gemstone-108266-RU-672-/400985182438

Like I said nice rubies are through the roof IF 100% real and decent clarity and weight

It's why I tell people at 5K range budgets invest in a wow/bling mount with an empty center stone for a nice 3Ct Ruby

Put your money into a gorgeous mount with clean common carbon aka diamonds

Get a high end LGFF ruby for almost nothing

Down the road when you can invest in a nice clean big ruby with a major lab cert on it, then you pick up the center stone

Sure you can buy opaque certified ruby junk with no heat for minor dough on 'ebay'

But even ebay has high end center stone rubies and you start to see way over 50K for small stones in the 2ct to 3ct range

So of course most people thinking ruby think nice clear and red

The reality you can't get anything you will be happy with in 100% ruby heated or not in the range of budget you have

DrRuby, I appreciate your opinion on this subject. The purpose of this purchase isn't for investment. It will be set into an engagement ring and will be worn and admired constantly. I am not looking for perfection. 100% satisfaction is not my goal here. I am simply looking to get the best stone I can for my budget. The only things I am ruling out are LGF stones and stones that show pink in any way (she hates pink). Your opinion on the LGF subject has been noted. Thank you for sharing it with me. Twice.
 

katharath

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
2,850
Gemfix has been mentioned a couple of times in here - I just want to add that this is definitely a trusted vendor. If you haven't looked over the rubies on his site, you really should. There are some nice gems right in your price range, here's the link:


http://www.gemfix.com/ruby.html

ETA - while your budget isn't huge by some standards, it isn't tiny either - you certainly should be able to find a lovely stone to suit your purposes! Just ignore any posts that you don't find helpful. Good luck :)
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,364
I agree that in CA, you can visit both Gemfix and AfricaGems but do call ahead to make the appointment. Another option is Joe Escobar but they are more likely to have sapphires though.
 

drruby

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
165
That guy is selling Rovals

Khazeray or strop

One step above schlok
 

larryfish

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
24
The natural choice, uncut and naturally formed
I'd suggest to buy uncut ruby and have a jeweler cut, polish and shape it for you
This way, you are sure what you are getting
The results will be spectacular

See photo of my natural 120K ruby

d685510eb21a043f5e9be8b1f0283dab.jpeg
 
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