Ugly suspicions can be so hurtful.

[kenny]

I blame the media for making us all so suspicious and thinking the worst about each other.
Fear Fear Fear!
Yeah, of course bad things CAN happen.
But that's rare and it's unfair, and increasingly common, to jump to ugly conclusions.

Please read this short news story about what happened to a dad and his two teenage daughters.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-was-taking-pictures-of-my-daughters-but-a-stranger-thought-i-was-exploiting-them/2014/08/29/34831bb8-2c6c-11e4-994d-202962a9150c_story.html?tid=sm_fb

 

[OreoRosies86]

I would have asked for all his information, gotten a badge number, a business card. I mean honestly

 

[VRBeauty]

The Homeland Security guy probably could have handled this better, but...

1) if anything, I'm not sure the media covers the issue of human sexual trafficking enough. The National Human Trafficking Resource Center estimates that there are 100,000 children in the sex trade in the United States each year. My little town is considered one of the five worst city in the U.S. for child sex trafficking (as is Kenny's, by the way), yet it's rarely reported on in the news. I guess it's just considered too delicate a topic. However, the result is that kids who are looking to escape what they consider a bad environment - whether they're fighting with their parents or in the foster care system - aren't aware of how much worse it could be.

2) I'm not sure I'd consider this racial profiling. The guy wasn't saying "male, white, therefore suspect," he was looking at a bigger picture which included two young women of one race and an older photographer of another race.

3) The writer is as much a part of ruining the mood as the questioner was. He chose to let the question get to him. He could have thanked the guy for his concern, he could have resumed the shoot later, he could have acknowledged that the incident was a part of that year's vacation, and let it add flavor and gravitas to the photo added to the photo chronicle. He could have reminded himself and his girls of your dictum that "what you think of me is none of my business," and gone on with the shoot. He didn't need to dwell on it let it ruin his day.

As one who is seen as a racial minority, and who is part of a mixed-race family, my reaction is "meh."

 

[arkieb1]

I am completely over that all Asian women must be bought, submissive or being used as sex slaves stereotypes so.....

 

[Sky56]

The idea of false accusation is terrifying. It could have happened to us. In the early 90's, we lived in a suburban neighborhood. Five houses up the street, grandparents were raising a boy because his mother was a drug addict. He was a cute, sweet 4-year-old boy who would sometimes approach us to talk. One day, he knocked on our door, and saw that my husband was playing a video game and he asked if he could come in and play the video game. We said sure, and he played the video game for about 15 minutes. His grandmother knocked on our door looking for him, and she gave my husband the weirdest look like she was sure he had molested the boy. For years afterwards, she looked at us askance like we were the lowest scum of the earth. At the time of the incident, I envisioned false charges ensuing. No "racial issue" with this story - we are all white.

 

[makemepretty]

I think it was very kind of the guy to check on the safety of the young girls. The fact that the dad's feelings were hurt is something he'll just need to get over and grow up. Unfortunately, the exploitation of and young women being in danger IS common. Too many people mind their own business when they could have helped someone so kudos to him.

When I was 17, a police officer saw me in a car with my boyfriend, we were just parked. He came over, knocked on the window and asked if I was okay. I was, but the fact that he checked was kind. Imagine how many could be saved by a single question?

 

[JewelFreak]

We see what we're looking for. It sounds to me like this guy has expected & found prejudice all his daughters' lives. "Strange looks & intrusive questions" over the years? I'll bet people usually thought, "what adorable little girls..." Seeing the obvious, that they & the parents were of different races, some may have asked where the girls were from -- out of interest, not condemnation. But he chooses to see it all as negative.

Waay over-reaction to the guy who questioned them. It was a stupid, tactless, & very rude thing to do, if he was really Homeland Security, which I doubt -- he had only to watch the interaction for a few minutes to know it was a happy group. But it's the crappy state of the world that such a thought occurs to strangers on a ferry or anywhere else. Daughters wanting to cry over it -- good heavens, tell them to blow it off & stop overdramatizing things.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I have to wonder if the people who saying "get over it" are themselves adopted or adoptive parents. I am genuinely curious!

 

[packrat]

I guess we need to just learn to use our coping mechanisms and deal. We can't all be victims, all the time, every time we walk out the door. Use it as a chance to educate? Nah, better to stomp your feet and proclaim loudly about the hardships you've endured. Better to make someone purposely NOT question something, on the off chance they might be *gasp* wrong...and have something that really IS going on, or really IS a problem, get overlooked b/c hey now, we can't question things or we'll be seen as racist, or big fat jerks or what have you.

FWIW, JD had to go thru a whole human trafficking thing at the academy. I had a dream a few months ago that London and I had been kidnapped by traffickers-not knowing JD had had classes/seminars on this. I mentioned the dream to JD, figuring he would roll his eyes at my crazy brain and he said the average citizen would be *sick* to know how close that shit really is, all across America.

So, yeah, brow beat a guy for checking to make sure things were ok. Then we can brow beat the next guy for *not* checking and it turns out something really was wrong. Then we can brow beat the guy after that for not checking and nothing was wrong, but he shoulda checked anyway b/c jeez, what if something was wrong?

Bah.

How many times have things happened and we see people on the news "I didn't want to get involved" UM HELLO? This is WHY.

Why is "damned if you do damned if you don't" a cliché? B/c it's true.

 

[movie zombie]

the man was absolutely polite and he was right: he would have been remiss not to ask.
he accepted the explanation.
yes, packrat, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[missy]

the man was absolutely polite and he was right: he would have been remiss not to ask.
he accepted the explanation.
yes, packrat, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I agree completely. He had to ask. To do anything less would have been unacceptable. In my profession we learn that if you even just suspect child abuse is going on you must report it. Even if it is only a small suspicion.

Isn't it better to err on the side of conservatism when it comes to something like this?

 

[Logan Sapphire]

I have to wonder if the people who saying "get over it" are themselves adopted or adoptive parents. I am genuinely curious!

I am both a Korean adoptee and an adoptive parent to a Korean child- married to a white man and also parent to a bio hapa. I work on human trafficking and wrongful conviction issues. I have lots of thoughts on this and will write more later. I don't think it's as black or white as the headline sounds and when I started the article, I was prepared to be outraged on the family's behalf...but I wasn't in the end. I can see both points of view, actually.

The one thing that I did want to say was that I found it supremely ironic that he complained that he was being accused of exploiting his children yet he allowed their photo to be run in a newspaper with an international readership.

 

[monarch64]

I think instead of blaming media, we should blame the people who are perpetrating crimes against children.

This story reminds me a bit of something happening in the blogging world right now. There's a particular guy who is a writer/blogger/photographer who has landed himself in a bit of hot water recently over pics he published (on social media and now in an art exhibit) of his two year old daughter. One shot featured her sitting on a potty chair, no pants, in the middle of a "deserted" highway. Another showed her topless, wearing only underwear, with her hands stuffed down the front of her underwear. He says they're art, and that anyone who thinks that he is violating her privacy or exploiting her is the sicko. I won't name him here because a. publicity, and b. don't want to establish a link between him and PS.

That story reminded me of this: http://themarinaexperiment.com/

Which makes me turn and question why this Jeff Gates dude is making himself the victim here. It's so offensive to him that someone questioned whether anything shady was happening, that he made an even bigger deal out of it by publishing the pictures of his children along with the entire line of questioning. I guess that's fine, but it seems a titch on the odder yet side. People are angry over being questioned, when the questioners nor those being questioned are necessarily the bad guys. The bad guys are the ones who are to blame for anyone being questioned in the first place, and I think we should all keep that in mind.

 

[TooPatient]

I guess we need to just learn to use our coping mechanisms and deal. We can't all be victims, all the time, every time we walk out the door. Use it as a chance to educate? Nah, better to stomp your feet and proclaim loudly about the hardships you've endured. Better to make someone purposely NOT question something, on the off chance they might be *gasp* wrong...and have something that really IS going on, or really IS a problem, get overlooked b/c hey now, we can't question things or we'll be seen as racist, or big fat jerks or what have you.

FWIW, JD had to go thru a whole human trafficking thing at the academy. I had a dream a few months ago that London and I had been kidnapped by traffickers-not knowing JD had had classes/seminars on this. I mentioned the dream to JD, figuring he would roll his eyes at my crazy brain and he said the average citizen would be *sick* to know how close that shit really is, all across America.

So, yeah, brow beat a guy for checking to make sure things were ok. Then we can brow beat the next guy for *not* checking and it turns out something really was wrong. Then we can brow beat the guy after that for not checking and nothing was wrong, but he shoulda checked anyway b/c jeez, what if something was wrong?

Bah.

How many times have things happened and we see people on the news "I didn't want to get involved" UM HELLO? This is WHY.

Why is "damned if you do damned if you don't" a cliché? B/c it's true.

This.

How dare you say something (remembering multiple threads over the last couple of years here -- where are you from, what do you do, etc) to make sure someone is okay.
How dare you NOT say something (animal treatment threads, child raising, etc) to make sure someone is okay.

There is NO winning!

So what we've got now is people living next to a house of chained up girls/women for years and not saying anything. We've got people reporting others for abuse because a dog is left outside or a teenager is left alone for an hour. All while ignoring those who truly need help (like those girls/women) because no one wants to get involved...

 

[redwood66]

I have experienced a very similar scenario myself but from the other side of the coin. As many of you know I am a retired prison guard and worked in several max security mens prisons in Cali. I have personal experience with more than my share of child molesters and rapists.

There is a water/theme park near where I live and I was enjoying a day with my two sons at the wave pool about 6 years ago. An older man maybe 60's came and sat near me on one of the lounges. He said he was from out of the area and we had a bit of a conversation. He seemed nice and harmless, no one was with him or talking to him. A bit later he was in the wave pool playing with two small children, a girl of about 8 and a smaller boy, picking them up and splashing around. I watched for a bit and started to feel uncomfortable. There was a couple sitting near me and I noticed they were watching too. The mother of the two children showed up and was talking to the man and he kept playing with the girl. It just felt more creepy to me as the minutes passed so I got up and went into the pool. The couple did also. I asked the man of the couple if he thought it was odd and he said yes. I finally had to ask the mother if she knew the older man and she said he was the kids grandfather. I did feel bad about being suspicious but then again not really. My hair was up on the back of my neck and I really felt like I had to ask. That being said, just because he was the grandfather does not mean all was well but I had done what I felt compelled to do. I would hope someone would do the same for me.

What would you have done? Kept quiet or asked? I only asked the mother if she knew the man because I did not want to be accusatory.

 

[movie zombie]

I have experienced a very similar scenario myself but from the other side of the coin. As many of you know I am a retired prison guard and worked in several max security mens prisons in Cali. I have personal experience with more than my share of child molesters and rapists.

There is a water/theme park near where I live and I was enjoying a day with my two sons at the wave pool about 6 years ago. An older man maybe 60's came and sat near me on one of the lounges. He said he was from out of the area and we had a bit of a conversation. He seemed nice and harmless, no one was with him or talking to him. A bit later he was in the wave pool playing with two small children, a girl of about 8 and a smaller boy, picking them up and splashing around. I watched for a bit and started to feel uncomfortable. There was a couple sitting near me and I noticed they were watching too. The mother of the two children showed up and was talking to the man and he kept playing with the girl. It just felt more creepy to me as the minutes passed so I got up and went into the pool. The couple did also. I asked the man of the couple if he thought it was odd and he said yes. I finally had to ask the mother if she knew the older man and she said he was the kids grandfather. I did feel bad about being suspicious but then again not really. My hair was up on the back of my neck and I really felt like I had to ask. That being said, just because he was the grandfather does not mean all was well but I had done what I felt compelled to do. I would hope someone would do the same for me.

What would you have done? Kept quiet or asked? I only asked the mother if she knew the man because I did not want to be accusatory.

and therein lies a problem: not all parents are doing the right thing by their kids but are "using" their children themselves and/or exploiting them for profit.

 

[Sky56]

redwood66, I think you handled the situation perfectly. In the linked article, the man said he worked for the Department of Homeland Security and he handled it in a more accusatory manner. The way you handled it, you got what you wanted to done without making it messy and uncomfortable the way that man did. It's good that people are keeping their eyes open and trying to help, but on the other hand it means innocent people are being confronted.

 

[Calliecake]

I have also found myself at the other end of a similar situation. I was close by an exit of a major department store when I see two men walking toward the exit. One of the men was holding a small child, the other man was putting a coat over the child's face and body. The whole time the child is crying, kicking and screaming he wants his mommy. Both men were going toward the exit very quickly. All 5'2" of me grabbed the man holding the child by the arm to stop him. I took the coat off the child's face and asked the child if he knew who the men were. One man seemed confused the other man was mad. The little boy said they were his uncles thru his sobs. A woman walks up and little boy started calling her mommy. I explained what I saw to the mother. The man holding the child looked at me and said "you thought I was kidnapping him?" He seemed really shocked and said he put the coat over the little boys face and body because they were taking him out in the cold. He also said he could see where it probably looked bad. The mom thanked me. I felt like an idiot but I also know I would have felt much worse if they were kidnapping the child and I did nothing to stop them.

 

[missy]

I have also found myself at the other end of a similar situation. I was close by an exit of a major department store when I see two men walking toward the exit. One of the men was holding a small child, the other man was putting a coat over the child's face and body. The whole time the child is crying, kicking and screaming he wants his mommy. Both men were going toward the exit very quickly. All 5'2" of me grabbed the man holding the child by the arm to stop him. I took the coat off the child's face and asked the child if he knew who the men were. One man seemed confused the other man was mad. The little boy said they were his uncles thru his sobs. A woman walks up and little boy started calling her mommy. I explained what I saw to the mother. The man holding the child looked at me and said "you thought I was kidnapping him?" He seemed really shocked and said he put the coat over the little boys face and body because they were taking him out in the cold. He also said he could see where it probably looked bad. The mom thanked me. I felt like an idiot but I also know I would have felt much worse if they were kidnapping the child and I did nothing to stop them.

You go girl! That is exactly what I would have done too. It was the only choice IMO under those circumstances and even the mom saw that. If I had been the mom I would have been so thankful to you because you saw something suspicious and you acted on the child's behalf. You did the right thing Callie!

 

[Circe]

I'm another who thinks the problem here isn't the suspicion, or its being double-checked, but the manner in which it was done. I think an aggressive confrontation is perfectly appropriate when a child is visibly scared or upset (props, Calliecake), but if the kid seems happy and it's a back-of-the-neck feeling? A low key inquiry - of the child, of surrounding adults - is way likelier to have a good outcome. Redwood's story is a perfect example. Good on you both, ladies.

I haven't had cause to check on kids, but I've stepped in a few times when I've seen women is abusive situations. My thought process is, worst case for me, I look like a crazy busybody. Worst case for them ... Is worse. That's sort of worth the risk. (The abusive dudes feelings, for better or worse, are not a priority for me). I kind of feel the same way as a parent. I'd rather feel defensive/angry if somebody double checks my kid's status than consider any of the alternatives where no one checks in and there IS a problem .....

 

[Calliecake]

I have also found myself at the other end of a similar situation. I was close by an exit of a major department store when I see two men walking toward the exit. One of the men was holding a small child, the other man was putting a coat over the child's face and body. The whole time the child is crying, kicking and screaming he wants his mommy. Both men were going toward the exit very quickly. All 5'2" of me grabbed the man holding the child by the arm to stop him. I took the coat off the child's face and asked the child if he knew who the men were. One man seemed confused the other man was mad. The little boy said they were his uncles thru his sobs. A woman walks up and little boy started calling her mommy. I explained what I saw to the mother. The man holding the child looked at me and said "you thought I was kidnapping him?" He seemed really shocked and said he put the coat over the little boys face and body because they were taking him out in the cold. He also said he could see where it probably looked bad. The mom thanked me. I felt like an idiot but I also know I would have felt much worse if they were kidnapping the child and I did nothing to stop them.

You go girl! That is exactly what I would have done too. It was the only choice IMO under those circumstances and even the mom saw that. If I had been the mom I would have been so thankful to you because you saw something suspicious and you acted on the child's behalf. You did the right thing Callie!

Thank you Missy and Circe, The mom knew I felt like an idiot and was very appreciative for what I'd done. It happened in Nordstrom and I can only imagine the scene I would have made if the little boy didn't answer correctly or had his mom not arrived. I literally felt the hair on the back of my neck stand up when the man put the coat over the screaming child as if to hide him.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I think people's professions seep into their everyday lives. Kind of like when you are pregnant everyone is pregnant. You get a new car, everyone seems to be driving that car. He works for Homeland Security so I am only guessing that he has seen children victimized. I know I am MUCH more suspicious due to my line of work. I hear it all and I don't think it makes me a *bad* person for seeing people differently than I used to. Nature of the beast. I agree with the other posters. Good for him for saying something if he was concerned. He moved on after the explanation. Now the blogger/photographer can promote his work. Kinda a win/win.

 

[blackprophet]

My brother witnessed something similar.

He was at a baseball game with a group of people from his church. There was one white guy and most of the rest of the people are black. The white guy was playing with the kids, taking pictures, joking, having fun with his group. He was observed for much longer than 15 minutes. Then security came over and asked him to go with them. Luckily my brother had been watching security approach and ask the guy to go with them. He rushed after them and when he finally caught up to them he told security that the guy was with their group. If he hadn't caught it, that guy woulda gotten escorted straight to the cops (or worse in a dark corner of the stadium).

I do think this article is influenced by the fact that the guy was white. He's probably never been "profiled" in his life. If this happened to me I would shake it off because it is a normal occurrence for others to be suspicious of me. You have to get used to it as a very large black man. I can be in work clothes and still get followed around stores at age 31. The reason my brother even noticed the security guards is because as a black man you get used to noticing those types of things. The guy that they were taking away didn't even know what was happening to him until my brother explained it to him afterwards. The guy who wrote this article probably has never had something like this happen to him before, that's why he was so baffled.

HS or not, I applaud the guy for saying something. When it comes to kids its better to be safe than sorry.

 

[VRBeauty]

By the way, I took another look at the pictures the writer posted of his daughters, and honestly, the girls look like they're being forced to be more lovey dovey with each other than is comfortable for them. I'm not saying there's anything wierd about the pictures, but not all kids (even siblings) are comfortable in a prolonged hug. It seems to me like the father is either missing or ignoring cues that the Homeland Security guy might have been catching.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...c-11e4-994d-202962a9150c_story.html?tid=sm_fb

 

[ericad]

1. I'm with the Homeland Security officer on this one. Better safe than sorry.

2. I'm betting this situation was less about race and more about two minors posing in a way that raised flags for the officer, with the prolonged hugging. He may very well have known this guy was their dad, but probably thought there was a chance he was a creeper. Maybe the girls complained, "DAAAAAD! We don't wanna hug, can't we just stand next to each other?" Who the heck knows? I mean if these kids honestly were standing there for 15 minutes with their arms around each other while dad fiddled with the camera, well that's kind of extreme and would raise red flags for me too.

3. What if the dad had been a kidnapper or trafficker or molester or child pornographer and the officer had walked on by? We would be crucifying him for not intervening. And that would have been much worse than possibly offending a family with a polite and simple question. Think Jaycee Dugard - intervention could have saved her years before she was actually found. Garrido had her out in public, neighbors saw weird things, and parole officers even visited the house! Think about the Ariel Castro kidnappings - had the neighbors not intervened when one of the ladies tried to escape, if they had ignored her, the women and that little girl might still be held prisoner to this day. But how many odd red flags were there over the years? The locked and chained door to the basement, never allowing anyone to go upstairs, the sudden appearance of a child, the boarded up windows - all the flags that friends and family thought were strange yet they simply ignored. One of the kidnapped girls was his daughter's BEST FRIEND and Castro's daughter was the last one seen with her. I mean, seriously?!

As a parent, I would much rather get the occasional question and know that people in the world are looking out for her, just in case the unthinkable ever happens. I think this officer would have reacted the same way if the family had looked alike - sounds to me like he was alerting to potential pedophilia after observing them for a little while. Dad was way too defensive.

 

[telephone89]

I'm confused - did the Homeland security guy actually SAY "Oh i thought you were taking pictures for some dirty wife catalogue site"? Or is that just the writer making assumptions? I don't think there's anything wrong in ASKING. They are also underage, which can raise suspicious about other things as well.

eta - didnt realize this was such an old thread. Damn spammers.

 

[partgypsy]

I read this article when it originally came out. I know the question made the Dad upset, but think about it another way. There may be girls just like his daughters being exploited somewhere. Would he rather spare the potential and temporary embarrassment of some adult, or possibly get some minors out of a dangerous situation.
I don't mind nosy neighbors they make safer neighborhoods.